10 replies to this topic

[nupi]

A key element of depression and related disorders is to attribute bad outcomes to something you did (and will happen again) whereas good outcomes were random (and thus will not happen again).

Does anyone have any good pointers of how to address this (because I most definitely see this in myself)?

[Tom_]

Cognitive psychology has a lot to say on the matter. Behavioral theory will allow you to set up behavioral experiments to test various cognition's. Repeatedly challenging negative cognition is a vital part of CBT.

So challenging attribution via thought processes (thinking logically about the situation, rather than going with gut instinct), testing your theories to see if they are correct by conducting quasi-experiements would be the two key psycho interventions you could instigate.

For a much less rambling and better explanation, buying a book like CBT for dummies or using online CBT (google free online cbt - there are a few options) would be a great idea. Of course certain books can be found online... Evidence shows in mild to moderate depressive disorders online and book CBT is just as effective and even in severe episodes its well above significance.

[nupi]

I read The Feeling Good manual more than once -the theory all seems pretty reasonable, but all the text (and shrinks) I have ever seen fail miserably at giving concrete actionable activities....

[Tom_]

That is the one thing a shrink would be in a relatively poor place to give you. Either hire an OT or put thought into what you enjoy doing and do it.

Something like CBT for dummies or the online courses are well structured and at the very least worth a go.

[hippocampus]

Well, since depression is correlated with realism (google depressive realism), I don't think it is good to change your attribution style to unrealistic in order to become happier. Rather, it is better to accept the world as it is - with mindfulness or similar techniques (IMO it's not just a technique but a world view).

[nupi]

That is the one thing a shrink would be in a relatively poor place to give you. Either hire an OT or put thought into what you enjoy doing and do it.

Something like CBT for dummies or the online courses are well structured and at the very least worth a go.

What is an OT? I primarily enjoy doing nothing at all... Or to solve problems (which my job gives me plenty off, to the extent that it is almost too much), I need to figure out how to get more energy...

[Tom_]

Hippocampus depressive realism and depressive disorders are separate.

ONLY those who have been shown to be more pessimistic than normal have been found to be more likely correct. Those with depression are thinking irrationally, which is why guilt, severe pessimism and lack of hope.

Depressive disorders are associated with irrational thinking to the point of delusionallity (in very severe cases) and lots of anxiety - not rationality and realism. DO NOT make that mistake, it could cost you years of mental health problems.

[Tom_]

Occupational therapist.

I seriously doubt you enjoy doing nothing, you just don't feel like doing anything you do enjoy - until you start doing it. If you can't think of anything you enjoy then you need to do something and move on until you find something you do enjoy.

Behavioral activation will give you the energy but that does mean starting somewhere (if thats exercising for a few mins and going out with a friend for a coffee once a week so be it - build from where ever you are). You can try an activating antidepressant like vanlafaxine but this wont work magic. Avoid stimulants other than caffeine which itself might work magic.

Hippocampus is also right in saying mindfulness is an excellent treatment for depression. Between CBT (with a heavy component of behavioral activation) and mindfulness combined with an activating AD will have you in remission within a few months.

[nupi]

Occupational therapists (OTs) help people of all ages to improve their ability to perform tasks in their daily living and working environments. They work with individuals who have conditions that are mentally, physically, developmentally, socially or emotionally disabling. They also help them to develop, recover, or maintain daily living and work skills. Occupational therapists help clients not only to improve their basic motor functions and reasoning abilities, but also to compensate for permanent loss of function. Occupational therapists assist clients in performing activities of all types, ranging from using a computer to caring for daily needs such as dressing, cooking, and eating. Physical exercises may be used to increase strength and dexterity, while other activities may be chosen to improve visual acuity and the ability to discern patterns. For example, a client with short-term memory loss might be encouraged to make lists to aid recall, and a person with coordination problems might be assigned exercises to improve hand-eye coordination. Occupational therapists also use computer programs to help clients improve decision-making, abstract-reasoning, problem solving, and perceptual skills, as well as memory, sequencing, and coordination —- all of which are important for independent living. Occupational therapists are often skilled in psychological strategies such as cognitive behavioral therapy and Acceptance and Commitment Therapy, and may use cognitive therapy especially when introducing people to new strategies for carrying out daily activities such as activity pacing or using effective communication strategies.

That does not really sound what I need (if indeed I need any kind of therapy, where I have some doubts to start with). If I can manage a team in an intense project setup just fine, I don't think I need help in daily living. If anything, I need help with stuff outside the day to day life - dating, vacations etc - the unstructured, unpredictable stuff. I find my way in a work environment (even a fast paced, flexible one) just fine.

The longer I reflect about it, the more I come back to the view that there is an underlying health issue that my GP fails to catch (not too surprising, doing the same lab tests that were spot on last time every 6 months is unlikely to generate any real insight). If there was not, somebody needs to explain me sudden onset of paresthesia in hand (potentially carpal tunnel) and feet (tingling, cold feet) whilst neurological tests come back normal, as do blood tests. Next up: go see an endo.

[hippocampus]

Hippocampus depressive realism and depressive disorders are separate.

ONLY those who have been shown to be more pessimistic than normal have been found to be more likely correct. Those with depression are thinking irrationally, which is why guilt, severe pessimism and lack of hope.

I don't understand - why would then be called depressive realism if it doesn't have anything to do with depression? Those who are thinking irrationaly (optimistically) are not depressed; those who are thinking rationally (realistically) are - on average - more depressed. There are people who are realistic but not depressed (like mindful people), and there are also people who are pessimistic, those are even more depressed than the realists.

[Tom_]

That's an ontological proof of depression. The existence of the word does not proof the existence of the concept.

The evidence doesn't actually support that.There is a list of evidence as long as your arm from Cognitive Behavioral research showing Depressed people think irrationally. Not to mention...

A lot of the studies in the area where only measuring a sense of control, it was suggested depressive people where only correct in that they managed to identify when there was no sense of control because they believed there was no/reduced sense of control in any situation.