13 replies to this topic

[medievil]

It pooped out on me, gabaergics dont put me to sleep, seroquel does and mirtazepine but sero makes me shizophrenic and mirt makes me feel bad like all 5HT2A blockers.

Any other antihistamines that dont affect 5HT2A that can get you to sleep after ingesting stimulants during the day or any experiences with ne blockers? clonidine?

I take strong stimulants and as sleep is crucial im in need for some suggestions people have experience with.

[nowayout]

Would be interested too in the answers.

GABA-agnosists poop out quickly on me but eszopiclone seems to keep working, not great, but better than nothing. It also makes me asexual though. Completely dead down there.

MIrtazapine would probably have pooped out on you anyway as it did on me - antihistamines poop out quickly.

I took low dose seroquel one night and had frightening apnea for 2 days, even awake. I was trying to keep myself up with coffee because I was convinced I was going to stop breathing once I fell asleep.

[Galaxyshock]

Are there adenosine receptor agonist sleep meds? Could perhaps be another route if GABAergics and anti-histamines don't suit.

There's Valerian root that agonizes adenosine + GABA, but not sure if it's strong enough.

[medievil]

DXM prob prevents xanax poop out but they just dont put me to sleep just block stim anxiety.

Should perhaps look in ways to downregulate H1, alimemazine was perfect it was a tranqelizer used during the sixties instead of barbs.

[Galaxyshock]

But how is the sleep quality on heavy tranquilizer? Any studies how it affects sleep stages etc.

[Kompota]

But how is the sleep quality on heavy tranquilizer? Any studies how it affects sleep stages etc.

I know from my own experience that GABAergics mess up the sleep architecture. Good for initiating sleep, but beyond that ... bad in general. They tend to suppress the deep stages of non-REM sleep and REM sleep. When I was on Xanax and then Clonazepam, I wondered back then why I would wake up tired and not refreshed, although I had slept for 8 hours.

I know that antihistamines do have a certain anticholinergic effect, so one would want to stay away from them.

Medievil,
Have you tried Trazodone, it is an atypical AD like the Mirtazepine you have already tried ?

[medievil]

But how is the sleep quality on heavy tranquilizer? Any studies how it affects sleep stages etc.

Klonopin and alimemazine prob cause big hangover on its own but i take a combo of desoxy and mdpv (i do get a bunted response a suppose as everyone else gets too fucked on pv to use it therapeutic and never put themself to sleep, too high etc.

Also desoxy works non stop, its not i got sleep like my dex wears off so i wake up early and refreshed.

[nowayout]

But how is the sleep quality on heavy tranquilizer? Any studies how it affects sleep stages etc.

I know from my own experience that GABAergics mess up the sleep architecture. Good for initiating sleep, but beyond that ... bad in general. They tend to suppress the deep stages of non-REM sleep and REM sleep. When I was on Xanax and then Clonazepam, I wondered back then why I would wake up tired and not refreshed, although I had slept for 8 hours.

I know that antihistamines do have a certain anticholinergic effect, so one would want to stay away from them.

Medievil,
Have you tried Trazodone, it is an atypical AD like the Mirtazepine you have already tried ?

It surely depends on what abnormal sleep architecture you start out with. Sure, a drug may mess up an initially normal architecture, but it might also correct an abnormal one.

For example, xanax gives me restful sleep without nightmares and I wake up feeling like a million dollars. I just can't get it prescribed. My drug-free sleep architecture is completely and utterly fucked, so I would not care about "messing it up."

[lostfalco]

Anecdote Alert: my girlfriend has had trouble falling asleep for the past few months. The past three nights, one hour before bed, she's put on sunglasses that block blue wavelengths of light (yup, dorky '80's blue blockers or orange tinted glasses also work). She's fallen asleep in 5 minutes and stayed asleep all night each time. **End anecdote

The somewhat questionable theory behind it is that blue light inhibits your body's natural production of melatonin. Blocking the blue light (460-480nm) tells your body it's time so shut down for the night. Anyway, for a $5 non-pharmaceutical intervention it may be worth a try.

[FrogWarrior]

Some novel classes of hypnotics that come to mind are melotonin receptor agonists and orexin antagonists. I don't know how available they are yet though. I haven't looked into it, but maybe there are adenosine agonists available. Maybe you could take one of those, along with a vasoconstrictor to counteract the headaches and low blood pressure. Have you tried other non selective antagonist drugs like TCAs such as amitryptiline? You could probably find one with less 5-HT2 affinity than mirtazapine. Also, IME trazodone works nearly as well as mirtazapine but less side effects.

BTW we should combine our knowledge of difference classes of hypnotics into an article, because I've searched for a comprehensive article like this in the past but all I could were articles that covered little more than GABAergics, antihistamines, and 5-HT antagonists. I'll pitch in all my knowledge. My motivation and energy levels are pretty low after quitting amphetamine, but I'll do this when I have more energy. Often times when reading about pharmacology related things, I come across a substance with a novel mechanism of action, but I forget the name of it, so its good to save the info somewhere.

Edited by FrogWarrior, 09 December 2013 - 08:55 PM.

[drg]

Lyrica (pregabalin) works for me but you might notice some concentration issues or tiredness.

Clonidine works well to get to sleep but has extremely pronounced tiredness. It supposedly is good for attention but I never noticed much benefits though I never took it with a stimulant.

Edit: I guess this is an old topic.

Edited by drg, 09 December 2013 - 08:52 PM.

[Babychris]

high dose glycine + Magnesium-L-Threonate should be enough.

[BlueCloud]

I know that antihistamines do have a certain anticholinergic effect, so one would want to stay away from them.

It's not too bad ( mostly dry mouth), if you don't take them every single night, and stick to small dosages. I've taken them on and off for close to a decade, and it's the only thing to ever give me anything close to real restful sleep.

[FrogWarrior]

Another sleep aid worth mentioning is datura. Scopolamine is available OTC in my country, but its expensive, whereas datura is very easy to grow, and it grows everywhere so its not hard to find a plant.