20 replies to this topic

[homerflintstone]

For the past few weeks I've been taking L-deprenyl (sublingually). Initially I took 5 drops per day and am now down to 4 drops per day(2 morning 2 nighttime). The plan is to weekly reduce this by one until I hit 1 drop per day. So far, however, I'm not feeling any effects from it, and in particular no side effects such as hypertensive crisis. I had heard that I might be more prone to such incidents when taking such a high dosage due to MAO-A inhibition.

Does anyone know why I don't seem to be feeling anything despite the fact that I apparently am taking a higher than recommended dosage? Should I be worried? What can I, or all of us, learn from this?

--HFS

[johnmk]

He takes his drops sublingually of course. I am taking one drop per day and am not sure I feel anything from it. His anecdote to me calls into question the efficacy of liquid deprenyl. Any studies on pubmed documenting effects from liquid deprenyl? Are we sure this stuff gets absorbed and is so much more bioavailable than tablet deprenyl? I remember one poster, "elevated" I believe, who took about 50 drops over a 1 day period and felt mild euphoria.

[stellar]

Why? this shit works! I have the liquid version, it works great esp. when combined with Chocamine!

Sublingual is the best route, I also put a little tab of hydergine under my tounge...that works well too.

[johnmk]

Stellar,

The originator of this thread is a personal friend of mine since High School. He's honest and intelligent. His anecdote is noteworthy. Can we explain his experience?

Thank you,

-John

Edited by johnmk, 17 May 2005 - 01:00 AM.

[adolfo]

Well, all I can say is keep the liquid in your mouth for as long as you can without swallowing it. I didn't feel anything the first two times I took it (I think it was because it I was underdosing) but these last two times I've noticed a rather marked increase in my sex drive.
I've only been dosing one drop every 2-3 days, and as a note, I've found this might even be too much.
Last time I took it I happened to take a little more Tyrosine than usual that day (~6g) and a big drop (maybe 2).. By the end of the evening (I work nights) I felt a little overwhelmed, kind of like a dopamine overload. It was as though everything was happening too fast, and I didn't have time to analyze my actions..
I was also on Pyritinol, but I don't know what else could have caused this 'overload'.

[johnmk]

I'd love to get LifeMirage's input on this, if he can find the time.

[stellar]

John,
I don't recall saying that your friend was dishonest or unintelligent, or that his anecdote had no merit. My initial post was addressed to "Da Sense".

However, based on one experience you want to call into question the efficacy of liquid deprenyl?

I merely shared my experience with the liquid form, and have read through tons of anecdotes from other individuals: http://groups-beta.g...yl liquid&hl=en

This doesn't include what I read on Avant, there are more positive testimonials there as well.

BTW, your friend never told us where he got it.

[AaronCW]

Does anyone know why I don't seem to be feeling anything despite the fact that I apparently am taking a higher than recommended dosage?  Should I be worried?  What can I, or all of us, learn from this?

You should not expect to see side effects at a dosage of 5mg/day; typically no side effects are observed at doses lower than 10mg (10mg is the highest recommended dose of selegiline for any indication). It would be advisable to continue reducing your dosage until you reach the recommended dose for your age.

Also, the liquid selegiline citrate form of deprenyl is considered to be superior to the selegiline hydochloride tablet in terms of bioavailability and assimilation.

Cheers,
Rasputin

Update: The above statement regarding side effects at doses of 5-10mg/day pertains only to short term usage (up to one week).

Edited by rasputin, 23 May 2005 - 05:00 AM.

[johnmk]

Rasputin,

Your intention is good but your information leaves something out. Liquid deprenyl dosage does not compare to tablet deprenyl dosage. Milligram for milligram, the oft quoted difference in potency is about 5:1 in favor of liquid deprenyl. So 5mg of tablet form deprenyl would be the equivalent of about 1 mg (1 drop) of liquid deprenyl, or thereabouts.

The question posted by the thread originator still stands unanswered.

-John

[AaronCW]

John,
Even assuming that 5 drops of selegiline citrate is roughly equivalent to 25mg of selegiline HCl, it is not expected that this dose would produce adverse or noticable side effects for most people. The problem, however, is that there is little or no evidence in the way of studies that suggest that selegiline citrate is five times more potent than the HCl form, only that it should be more bioavailable (similar to the difference between calcium carbonate vs. calcium citrate).

[johnmk]

The issue is not citrate vs. hydrochloride. It's sublingual vs. intestinal absorption.

Here are studies you may wish to refer to. I'll dig up some more later if I have the time. For now I'm done trying to prove my point, those who can answer the thread originator's question already are aware of the facts.

http://www.ncbi.nlm....0&dopt=Abstract

http://www.ncbi.nlm....0&dopt=Abstract

http://www.ncbi.nlm....7&dopt=Abstract

http://www.rxlist.co...ic/seleg_cp.htm

The peak plasma levels of these metabolites following a single oral dose of 10 mg are from 4 to almost 20 times greater than that of the maximum plasma concentration of selegiline [1 ng/mL].p

Oral dose, meaning tablet.

[AaronCW]

John,

I apologize if I've confused you. From what I understand you are trying to compare sublingual administration of selegiline citrate with intestinal absorption of selegiline HCl. The studies which you point out are using selegiline HCl for buccal adsorption, which is not what the originator of this post used. The differences between sublingual vs. intestinal absorption and HCl form vs. citrate form have to be looked at separately.

-Rasputin

[johnmk]

Quite right. Anyone have any data there?

[adolfo]

Ok, but the fact that oral deprenyl is broken down into its metabolites before it can absorbed only reinforces the fact that the liquid is preferable, right?
Also, I'm sure most of you already read/knew about this, but here's the M&M article for those who didn't:
http://magazine.mind...D=18&pageID=227
http://magazine.mind...D=20&pageID=258

[johnmk]

Not necessarily. The selegiline does something too, such as MAO-A inhibition to small extent inasmuch as the dose of selegiline exceeds that which is needed to completely inhibit MAO-B.

[power.bulls.x]

my question is could u takes that MAO-B along with a ECY stack ?. heared that @ 20mg/day of deprenyl u shouldnt use drugs that increase B.P

AND hydergine shouldnt be taken along with MAHO. hydergine should not be fast release.


bioaviability of deprenyl increase 3 fold with food

[yourdo]

Please remember that dosage to be used is a critical factor. This drug should be used for the entire life span.

DEPRENYL- DOSAGES FOR LIFE EXTENSION PURPOSES

Age Dosage

30-35 1mg twice a week
35-40 1mg every other day
40-45 1mg every day
45-50 2mg every day
50-55 3mg every day
55-60 4mg every day
60-65 5mg every day
65-70 6mg every day
70-75 8mg every day
75-80 9mg every day
80 plus 10mg every day


Quality of life usage indications and dosages:

Parkinson's Disease: Indicated as a treatment adjuvant. Dosage: 5 mg in the morning and 5 mg in the afternoon.
Alzheimer's Disease: May be helpful in treatment. Dosage: 5 mg in the morning and 5 mg in the afternoon.
Tremors: Helpful in the relief of symptoms. Dosage: 5 mg in the morning and 5 mg in the afternoon, for 30 days. For maintenance, reduce amount by I mg per day until reaching proper dose for age. If tremors return, increase dose by I mg a day, until they disappear again, and continue at that dosage. Do not exceed 10 mg per day.
High Blood Pressure: Effective in hypertension reduction. Dosage: 5 mg in the morning and 5 mg in the afternoon, for 30 days. After this period, reduce amount by I mg per day until reaching proper dose for age. If high blood pressure returns, increase dose by I mg a day, until it disappears again, and continue at that dosage. Do not exceed 10 mg per day.
Motion Sickness: Dosage: from 5 to 10 mg a day.
Depression: Dosage: 5 mg in the morning and 5 mg in the afternoon, for 30 days. After this period, reduce amount by 1 mg per day until reaching proper dose for age. If depression returns, increase dose by 1 mg a day, until it disappears again, and continue at that dosage. Do not exceed 10 mg a day.
The above information is the translation of the manufacturer's insert. It is provided under the supplying company's terms and conditions and should not replace the advice of your personal physician.