2 replies to this topic

[Peniel84]

Ok, so after some brief background research I have decided to order Alcar, Piracetam, Choline Bitartrate, and Sulbutiamine. I think the plan will be to take the Piracetam and Choline together first before adding the Alcar and Sulbutiamine.

It seems there is much debate regarding how well choline by itself is able to cross the blood-brain barrier, thus the combination with piracetam- which, along with Alcar and Sulbutiamine seem to have no issues with crossing the BBB.

It looks like what we are all trying to get at is the production (??) or cultivation of the neurotransmitter Acetylcholine. Many sites will say that choline is an important "component" or "precursor" for Ach and that Piracetam "supports" Ach. Does anyone know if they aid the the actual creation/production of Ach?

I have a few things to help me establish some good baseline scores for me to track my progress- if anyone has any tests or online exams or anything that may also help, I would love to hear. Also, if there are any suggestions I am open to trying different approaches.

Look forward to sharing more!

[Tom_]

I'm assuming this is a nootropics stack?

I'd swap the Choline Bitartrate with Choline CDP - its more effective and has a wider range of effects.

You have very little in the way of dopamine or noradrenaline (almost always forgotten) support. Sulbutramine causes downregulaton of D1. So I would recommend you use DLPA 1-3 times a day with a maximum daily dose at 2000mg. CDP choline would also appear to upregulate dopamine receptors and act as a mild psychostimulant.

Choline is turned into Ach (Acetylcholine) by the enzyme choline acetyltransferase with choline and Acetyl-CoA. So taking Choline leaves more of some of the stuff needed to synthesise more Ach. http://www.wikipathw...528#Description

Some of the racetams including Piracetam are proported to work on MAch neurons (a subtype of Ach) how is not well understood as far as I'm aware. My guess would be as an agonist. Supplementing with choline means more Ach can be made and Piracetam makes the neuron more likely to fire...together its a double wammy.

The main target areas are massive for nootropics. Just a few could be (depending on exactly what you are after), dopamine, serotonin, GABA, Glutamate, noradrenaline, Ach (all of these have many subreceptors).

A little information on what your goals are and to know whether you have any medical or psychiatric problems now or in the past would help.

[Peniel84]

Wow, thanks for the super informative response Tom. Hmm, the choline bitartrate has already arrived so i will just go ahead and use all of that before I try the CDP Choline.

Is the typical ratio/dose between Piracetam and Choline 1:1?

Can you explain a little more the relationship between Sulbutiamine and the Dopamine receptors? I am a little confused between your explanation and what I am reading on wiki:

"the administration of sulbutiamine reduces the release of dopamine in the prefrontal cortex, which increases the density of D₁dopamine receptors through a compensatory mechanism."

You said that the Sulbutiamine would cause a downregulation of D1?

Do you have any experience with Galantamine?

I was formerly a professional boxer- with the brain trauma that came with that career I have since retired and really desire to see overall improvement in my mental abilities. I have done some reading on Nueroplasticity and am very encouraged by the possibilities.

Thanks for your response Tom!