9 replies to this topic

[hani]

Phytic acid is aka inositol hexakisphosphate (IP6). So basically, most of the inositol powder supplements are actually pure phytic acid.

Phytic acid makes certain important minor minerals such as zinc and iron, and to a lesser extent, also macro minerals such as calcium and magnesium unabsorbable. It's one of the main reasons why Paleo folks avoid legumes and grains, because phytic acid is dubbed as an antinutrient. It's worth noting here that IP6 plays a large role in cancer prevention:
http://www.cancer.or...l-hexaphosphate

People taking inositol usually take it in large amounts, sometimes up to 18 grams. Won't that be really bad for the body?

Also, is their a difference between IP6 and myo-inositol? If so, where can I get the latter? Thanks.

[lammas2]

http://en.wikipedia....iki/Phytic_acid
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inositol

There is a difference.

[hani]

But the inositol hexakisphosphate (IP6) is what's in most powder supplements I found.

[Dorian Grey]

I've had quite a bit of experience with IP6 over the past couple of years as I've been using it to chelate iron. I'm not an expert on this sort of thing, but here's what I've come to understand about it.

A lot of confusion about IP6 comes from differences in effects between consuming a diet high in foods containing phytic acid and taking isolated IP6 on an empty stomach as a chelator. Food high in phytic acid (or IP6 taken with meals) will bind and lock-up minerals in the GI tract preventing absorption and in extreme cases (extended daily consumption) cause deficiencies, thus its reputation as an antinutrient.

With a balanced diet low in phytic acid, mineral deficiencies (both major and trace) do not normally occur, however over the long haul, "over-mineralization" or buildup of some minerals to undesirable levels can and often does occur. Iron and copper are examples of minerals that while necessary and desirable in small amounts can become toxic and problematic when excessive levels are reached.

IP6, when taken on an empty stomach with a full glass of water is quickly absorbed into the blood intact (not already loaded up with minerals from food) and immediately starts snapping up its favorite minerals in blood plasma. Free/unbound (serum) iron, known to generate hydroxyl radicals (the most dangerous free radicals) and feed cancers (which LOVE iron) is substantially reduced, sharply reducing dangerous levels of oxidative stress via fenton reaction and starving any cancer that may exist of iron.

Serum levels of important and desirable minerals may also be reduced, but studies show these are quickly replaced by normal dietary delivery, particularly when the diet is low in phytic acid and thus rich in mineral delivery. Iron absorption however is regulated by hepcidin, and as long as shortages of stored iron do not occur, absorption of new/excess iron is largely blocked resulting in a desirable chelation of excess iron with IP6.

IP6 can't touch iron bound in hemoglobin or calcium in bones, but it may help chelate calcium from arterial plaques, which would be another major benefit of IP6 chelation if studies confirm this actually occurs.

I've found much of the dosing recommendations on IP6 to be a bit over the top, and I believe these recommendations for many grams of supplemental IP6 (often sold combined with inositol) must refer to the combination supplement "IP6 with Inositol" and not a stand alone IP6 supplement. The highest I've dosed stand alone IP6 was 500mg, twice a day for a total of 1 gram per day. I got some dental sensitivities when I tried higher doses. Stand alone IP6 is dirt cheap at around 10 cents a cap (Jarrow), but the combined IP6 with inositol supplements can be very pricey as this combination is what is used in cancer studies. I fear the combination supp's must be a rip-off on the cancer patients as inositol is also dirt cheap and could be easily purchased separately. The correct ratios shouldn't be that hard to figure out. I get plenty of inositol in my diet, and do not mega-dose IP6, so I simply take the cheap stand alone IP6 supplement.

Bottom line... Phytic acid, bad in foods/diet, but beneficial when supplemented between meals, again, always on an empty stomach with a full glass of water.

Some nuts and bolts details for you here: http://www.pjoes.com...7.2/283-290.pdf

"Effect of Inositol Hexaphosphate on Lipopolysaccharide-Stimulated Release of TNF-α from Human Mononuclear Cells"

Edited by synesthesia, 30 June 2013 - 05:16 PM.

[hani]

The one I have now is this:
http://www.ebay.co.u...=item2c6e582ad7
It says IP6.

I found this on iherb:
http://www.iherb.com...Veggie-Caps/192 this one says its myo inositol

and the powders i found:
http://www.iherb.com...-8-oz-227-g/126
http://www.iherb.com...-oz-113-g/16123
http://www.iherb.com...oz-226-8-g/1319
http://www.iherb.com...-lb-454-g/43479

How do I know if the powders are myoinositol or IP6?

[LetMusicRule]

IP6 will be labeled IP6 lol. Its really not that complicated. Inositol doesn't spontaneously convert to IP6 at a high rate so its not the same product at all. Of the ones you listed the ebay one is the most confusing so stay clear of it. The rest are as they are listed. Jarrow for instance clearly labels Myo-Inositol as Inositol and IP6 as such.

They are NOT the same thing!!!

[hani]

The one I have from Ebay is pure white and a bit sweet like table sugar. Does IP6 taste/look the same? I already contacted the ebay seller to ask if they are selling myo or hexakisphosphate as they have it labeled.

[Dorian Grey]

I'm not sure but I believe I read IP6 breaks down into lower forms of inositol (IP3?) as it is metabolized.

I don't have time to look for the link now, but you might want to google around on this.

[blood]

The one I have from Ebay is pure white and a bit sweet like table sugar. Does IP6 taste/look the same?

I use IP6 from Swansons, which is extremely cheap (240 x 500mg caps, for under $9):
http://www.swansonvi...R086&csp=SWU286

I opened one of these caps. They contain a white-ish powder, which is essentially tasteless (not sweet).

(Inositol is sweet tasting - some people use it as a mild/ weak sugar substitute).

[majkinetor]

I agree with synesthesia. There are bunch of misinoformation out there. Here is my post on one such place: http://chriskresser....go-nuts-on-nuts

I don’t think phytic acid (IP6) is problematic with proper nutrition and supplementation. Its also everywhere, so if you plan to eat plants at all, you will have to live with IP6 ‘horros’
First, the action of IP6 should be viewed related to sex. There is evidence that iron should be kept on lower levels high enough not to case anemia. For pre-menopausal females chelating of iron may not be good idea.
Now, instead of reiterating all this, here are sequences from the paper “Phytate: impact on environment and human nutrition” which summed it up nicely. So, I will keep my IP6, thx
——————-
Ascorbic acid and meat can to some extent reverse the inhibition of iron absorption by IP6. In presence of excess phytic acid, formation of soluble complexes between PA and a metal ion displaying 1:1 stoichiometries predominates. However, when metal ions are in excess, an insoluble solid
called phytate is formed .The pH is another factor influencing the solubility of phytic acid (Cheryan, 1980).
Phytic acid accumulates during seed development until the seeds reach maturity and accounts for 60%~90% of total phosphorous content in cereals, legumes, nuts and oil seeds (Lott et al., 2000; 2001).
It is however found in most eukaryotic tissues, where it is kept adherent to the cell walls through phosphoinositides, or in complexes with proteins or ions (Torres et al., 2005; Veiga et al., 2006). Phytic acid is found in ten-fold higher concentrations in the brains of rats as in the kidney, indicating that it has great potential outside the plant kingdom. In eukaryotes in general, three main features of PA keep it involved in a number of metabolic processes: its chelating properties and its ability to function as a phosphate donor/acceptor makes it ubiquitous/abundant in numerous cell systems. Moreover, the lower inositol phosphates are involved in a number of cell signalling pathways.
In mammalian organisms, PA has been implicated in starch digestibility and blood glucose response (Lee et al., 2006), in the prevention of dystropic calcifications in soft tissues (Grases et al., 2004)
and kidney stone formation (Grases et al., 1998; Selvam, 2002), and in the lowering of cholesterol and triglycerides (Jariwalla, 1999; Onomi et al., 2004).
PA has also been suggested to be part of a structure that could inhibit transcription of the viral genome from HIV-1 (Filikov and James, 1998), and apparently it has been tested in toothpaste as a tool for
preventing plaque formation. At the cellular level, PA or inositol phosphate intermediates are involved in gene regulation, efficient export of mRNA, RNA-editing and DNA repair (York et al., 1999; York, 2006). The lower inositol phosphates such as Ins(1,4,5)P3 take part in cell signalling cascades (Berridge and Irvine, 1989) and pathways leading to versatile functions within Ca2+ mobilisation and signalling (Efanov et al., 1997; Larsson et al., 1997). They also contribute to protein folding (Macbeth et al., 2005) and trafficking (Shears, 2004), endo- and exocytosis (Efanov et al., 1997; Saiardi et al., 2002), oocyte maturation (Angel et al.,2002), and cell division and differentiation (Berridge and Irvine, 1989)

Needless to say, absorption IS promoted with supplementation and/or diet:
“Absorption and excretion of orally administered inositol hexaphosphate (IP6)”
“A study of the pharmacokinetic profile (oral absorption and renal excretion) of inositol hexaphosphate or phytate (IP(6)) is presented. Seven healthy volunteers were following a IP(6) poor diet (IP(6)PD) in a first period, and on IP(6) normal diet (IP(6)ND) in a second one. When following the IP(6)PD they become deficient in IP(6), the basal levels found in plasma (0.07+/- 0.01 mg/L) being clearly lower than those found when IP(6)ND was consumed (0.26+/- 0.03 mg/L). During the restriction period the maximum concentration in plasma were obtained 4 h after the ingestion of a single dose of IP(6), observing almost the same renal excretion profiles for the three different commercial sources and doses. After the IP(6) restriction period, volunteers were on IP(6)ND, reaching normal plasma and urinary IP(6) values in 16 days. Thus, the normal plasma and urinary concentrations, can be obtained either by consumption of a IP(6)ND taking a long time or in a short period by IP(6) supplements