16 replies to this topic

[Raptor87]

Are we sleeping less insufficiently due to our beds? Don't get me wrong, snoring and sleeping problems SHOULD always be examined by real doctors.

But...

It is weird that sleep-apnoea and snoring is a common problem in the western world?

One would wonder why nature would do such a cruel thing to us? The symptoms range from ADD/ ADHD, constant fatigue, IQ- drop, brainfog, headaches, migraines, nausea, sickness and the list goes on

The question is if our beds are messing with our sleeping posture and making our back- muscles weak enough so we can't breathe properly? Putting nose- congestions, allergies, real obstructions in our breathingpath's, neurological problems or perhaps muscular diseases that affects our diaphragma and other muscles aside, perhaps sleeping on the floor would actually help us breathe better while we sleep?

Wouldn't the static conditioning fix our backs/muscles and shouldn't are bodies be better at adjusting itself to a perfect sleeping form? Just think of it, the docs themselves don't promote too hot temperatures that bedrooms and beds radiate, I mean even the coolness coming from the floor should IMO be a great temperature regulation for optimal sleep.


Is primal sleeping the way to go? Has anyone tried this?


http://www.ncbi.nlm....les/PMC1119282/

I think it would be good if we discussed this some more?

[Raptor87]

Yep! I tested this yesterday and slept on the floor for a couple of hours. There is something there, although it is uncomfortable compared to the bed. It seems that I have an easier time breathing during daytime and my back feel more adjusted. I was thinking of doing this when I had to go to sleep for the whole night, but i don't think I am ready for this yet. also my floor is really cold and I need to walk with slippers so I won't freeze. If I am going to sleep on a hard flat surface or something that is a little more comfy, but still hard. then I need to come up with something. Like sleeping on a yoga mat, sleeping pad or perhaps constructing a mattress and filling it with packed beach sand.

What is interesting is that I became aware of the different static contractions in my body. My body is trying to adjust itself with static adjusting to hold a better sleeping form, but it seems that it will take somewhat of time. I do think that sleeping on the floor will result in a better form and posture and improve breathing.

Ill keep doing this everyday for 2 hours to see what happens. If you try this then please report to us on what you experience.

I found another site!

http://www.zafu.net/...ergonomics.html

[BLimitless]

I sleep on a thin yoga mat on the floor. If you do not have an insulated floor, the cold on your back will ruin your sleep. So you need either carpet, or a mat of some kind. Since I have started doing this about 3-4 months ago my posture has improved dramatically - it was atrocious before, now it is very nice and almost quite reasonable.



Most importantly when I sleep, I can breathe.

Sleep apnea is a fictitious "disease". The reality is that most people are not aware of the significance of sleep posture and ultimately deep breathing.


I did an NZT-48 type experiment earlier in the year where I was living 30-40hr days and sleeping 3hrs... yes, really. Sustained for over a week or two at a time but even a minor glitch causes the whole train to derail here.

In such a state I found that it is of utmost importance to breathe into the lower Dan Tien (the bladder region between the hipbones), this being the maximally deepest breath you can take. But it is deeper than what you might *think* is the deepest breath - let me elaborate.

I have a little sheet I sometimes use to rest on, literally a thin sheet, the kind you'd put on the mattress. It might be 0.5cm off the ground all in all when crumpled into a little heap. Even this 0.5cm distortion, when it is expressed at the hipbones, it can obscure the breathway to the point the Dan Tien becomes inaccessible. The result is needing to sleep 8 hours instead of 2. I believe I have said my piece.

Edited by BLimitless, 13 July 2013 - 03:16 PM.

[Raptor87]

I sleep on a thin yoga mat on the floor. If you do not have an insulated floor, the cold on your back will ruin your sleep. So you need either carpet, or a mat of some kind. Since I have started doing this about 3-4 months ago my posture has improved dramatically - it was atrocious before, now it is very nice and almost quite reasonable.



Most importantly when I sleep, I can breathe.

Sleep apnea is a fictitious "disease". The reality is that most people are not aware of the significance of sleep posture and ultimately deep breathing.


I did an NZT-48 type experiment earlier in the year where I was living 30-40hr days and sleeping 3hrs... yes, really. Sustained for over a week or two at a time but even a minor glitch causes the whole train to derail here.

In such a state I found that it is of utmost importance to breathe into the lower Dan Tien (the bladder region between the hipbones), this being the maximally deepest breath you can take. But it is deeper than what you might *think* is the deepest breath - let me elaborate.

I have a little sheet I sometimes use to rest on, literally a thin sheet, the kind you'd put on the mattress. It might be 0.5cm off the ground all in all when crumpled into a little heap. Even this 0.5cm distortion, when it is expressed at the hipbones, it can obscure the breathway to the point the Dan Tien becomes inaccessible. The result is needing to sleep 8 hours instead of 2. I believe I have said my piece.

I myself suffer fro sleepapnea and I have an obstruction just below my throat so I can't really say it's a fictitious disease, there are different reasons for sleepapnea. I can imagine that sleeping on the floor can cure some though. But resting on the floor has helped somewhat. The thing I have noticed is just as you say, deep breathing. It's like after the vertibrae adjusts my lungs start working on a deeper level, also my daytime breathing is improved but it's still to early to say for sure. I need to condition myself.

I haven't really slept a full night, I sleep on a few towels so it's still not ideal for sleeping on the floor. I usually wait until I start drifting and then I lay myself to fall asleep, I usually wake up after some time. Also I rest 1-2 h everyday and it has been sufficient to notice a difference. The hardest part has been the connectors on the hip bone and I am a little bit sore.

Sand seems to be the ideal surface for the body. I have been looking for a mattress that I can fill with sand so it won't leak but I haven't found a model that is available.

If I am able to pull this through without it becoming too uncomfortable and if it fixes my posture then I am going to invest on this some more.

[Raptor87]

I found this interesting thread!

[Raptor87]

@BLimitless

I have been looking for a matress now, I just don't know when it get's too stiff. i wen't outside and tried lying down on a few surfaces, ironically, they all were more comfortable than my floor:D

Do you have any recommendations for a good mattress!

I was thinking of something like this!
http://www.instyleho...ang-i-pase.html

http://www.instyleho...rgad-futon.html

I think the second one might be a little bit too soft but the first one seems alright what U think?

Edited by YOLF, 30 August 2016 - 09:40 AM.

[hippocampus]

I think that sleeping without pillow may be more important than finding the right matress (unless it is very soft ...). But I haven't tried any of these yet, I'll try and report in few weeks.

[sthira]

Inspired by this thread I've been sleeping on the floor for the past week. While I don't have sleep apnea or suffer from poor sleep, I haven't really noticed any benefit or detriment to sleeping on the floor vs. on a mattress. But I agree that the mattress biz seems like pseudo science. And while it's been fun sleeping on the floor and building blanket forts, I think I'll just return my sleep to the mattress again.

[Raptor87]

Inspired by this thread I've been sleeping on the floor for the past week. While I don't have sleep apnea or suffer from poor sleep, I haven't really noticed any benefit or detriment to sleeping on the floor vs. on a mattress. But I agree that the mattress biz seems like pseudo science. And while it's been fun sleeping on the floor and building blanket forts, I think I'll just return my sleep to the mattress again.

Did you find that your back was adjusted when you were on the floor?

[sthira]

Did you find that your back was adjusted when you were on the floor?

I'm not sure what you mean. I don't have chronic back pains; but sleeping on a harder surface may lead to those. I've done a lot of camping, hiking, travel by bicycle then sleeping off to the side of a road or trail. Sometimes I sleep in a sleeping bag, other times in a hammock, in happiest times I find a bed. My most uncomfortable sleep has been on the ground; my most comfortable sleep has been in fancy, soft hotel beds accompanied by a smiling set of big brown eyes. I think the reason we invented (soft) mattresses is because they're more comfy and lead to better sleep. But we also need variety, so sleeping on other surfaces both harder and softer is probably good for ya. :-)

[Raptor87]

I think that sleeping without pillow may be more important than finding the right matress (unless it is very soft ...). But I haven't tried any of these yet, I'll try and report in few weeks.

I found a study although I don't have time to read it but I think it relates to what you are saying?

http://revivechiro.c...ctive-Study.pdf

[Raptor87]

I talked to a physiotherapist about lumbago, Crick's and other minor but very painful spinal problems that can occur through various activities. He told me that when a lumbago happens the muscles around it locks up creating a constant static contraction around the vertebrae until the pain is relieved. He told me that sometimes the CNS makes an adjustment keeping those muscles tight in order to protect the vertebrae from further dislocation. So after a lumbago, a permanent adjustment might occur. He told me that it's not dangerous but sometimes it's impossible to relieve those regions. What I am wondering if the muscles and vertebrae can readjust around the diaphragm - - which interferes with deep lung capacity - - then these problems will actually interfere with breathing and worsen apnea and other breathing problems. Sleeping on the floor might relieve these problems but I don't think it's possible to readjust a problem like that so constant conditioning is needing through sleeping on the floor or sporadic floor napping.

Blimitless is actually right about deep breathing. I have sensed an improvement in deep breathing while running and sitting (I need to avoid sitting as much as I can because I think that is the main cause for deep breathing problems). Also I suffered from a lumbago a few years ago and not even chiropractors were able to fix that but my breathing HAS improved.

[shp5]

What I am wondering if the muscles and vertebrae can readjust around the diaphragm - - which interferes with deep lung capacity - - then these problems will actually interfere with breathing and worsen apnea and other breathing problems.

Your lower thoracic spin is definitely in a tight relationship with the diaphragm. this goes both ways, stiff segments can make your breathing shallow, and a tight diaphragm will immobilize your spine in this area. Natural breathing is a big question, I've seen people unable to breathe into their bellies, and others unable to breathe into their chests, with accordingly different muskuloskelletal problems. It's a very, very complex area.



I'm also not sure about the natural sleeping thing. Absolutely no-one has any evidence in any direction. I can see how someone could relax more easily against a firm underground, but frankly, the neutral-spine-position theories that mattress manufacturers work with make sense too. In the end, you have to try different things and decide for yourself what works best.

[Raptor87]

What I am wondering if the muscles and vertebrae can readjust around the diaphragm - - which interferes with deep lung capacity - - then these problems will actually interfere with breathing and worsen apnea and other breathing problems.

Your lower thoracic spin is definitely in a tight relationship with the diaphragm. this goes both ways, stiff segments can make your breathing shallow, and a tight diaphragm will immobilize your spine in this area. Natural breathing is a big question, I've seen people unable to breathe into their bellies, and others unable to breathe into their chests, with accordingly different muskuloskelletal problems. It's a very, very complex area.



I'm also not sure about the natural sleeping thing. Absolutely no-one has any evidence in any direction. I can see how someone could relax more easily against a firm underground, but frankly, the neutral-spine-position theories that mattress manufacturers work with make sense too. In the end, you have to try different things and decide for yourself what works best.

i did this for the whole summer. ultimately the three positions published in the article in the beginning of my post were correct, other positions are uncomfortable. After getting used to the positions I slept like a baby, there was no difference in being on the bed or not. It also worked up my muscles in the belly (deep breathing) which sufficiently changed my breathing during daytime. I had less apnoea during nighttime- I think at least!

What was hard on the body is that synthetic floors are a little harsh on the connectors of the body, the points of the body where there is a lot of pressure. Also it was cold, really cold. I haven't slept on the floor since because it's almost winter here now so. But if I get gear for sleeping on the floor then I will start doing it again.

[Brainy]

thanks for the post! i will try seeping on the floor see if it helps my snoaring problem!

[lazarian]

This is interesting. I am actually looking for ways to improve my posture so this may be a good thing to try!

[JohnD60]

Sleep apnea is a fictitious "disease". The reality is that most people are not aware of the significance of sleep posture and ultimately deep breathing.

Write a book about it. You will become famous and win the nobel prize in medicine showing that millions of people with sleep disorders simply do not know how to sleep properly and that the entire modern medical community is completely ignoring this simple solution.

Edited by JohnD60, 26 November 2013 - 04:06 AM.