14 replies to this topic

[jcalderaio]

Hey guys,

I've had a rough couple of weeks and lately I've been feeling IMMENSE brain fog, to the point where I'm forgetting basic vocabulary words while I'm speaking along with some depression.

About 2 months ago, things were perfect in the nootropic/anxiety stack department. Keep in mind I also have depression/OCD or an anxiety disorder, so I'm supplementing those as well. Here was my stack:

Piracetam: 4 g BID; Choline Bitartrate: 2 g BID; 5-HTP: 100 mg BID; Fish Oil: 1 g BID; Guanfacine: 1 mg TID; Intense Weight Training Program: 4 times per week

Last month, I herniated my L4/L5 disc in my back so I've had to completely quit weight training, This has played a huge psychological toll on my anxiety/depression/confidence as it was one of the only things that really helped my OCD.

Anyways, I started looking into alternative supplements for my OCD and started on high dose Inositol and Bacopa Monnieri. In addition, I lowered my dose of Guanfacine to twice per day. Here is my current stack:

Piracetam: 4 g BID; Choline Bitartrate: 2 g BID; 5-HTP: 100 mg BID; Fish Oil: 1 g BID; Guanfacine 1 mg BID; Bacopa Monnieri: 300 mg (45% bacosides) once/day; Inositol: 9 g BID (yes 18 g total)

Like I said, I've been having massive brain fog. I attribute some of this to my lack of working out but not all of it. What could be causing this?

[chemicalambrosia]

That seems like a ridiculous amount of supplementary choline to be taking, whether that is the cause or not you probably don't need that much. Many people take a fraction of that or none at all.

As for exercising, I've been in a similar place. I've been injured and in pain and it kept me from going to the gym. Going to the gym is generally a positive stress on the body and causes good adaptations. High chronic pain is a bad stress and will cause bad adaptations. You basically turn 180 degrees and go from having good stress to bad stress. Those of us with brain chemistry susceptible to anxiety and depression can end up in a downward spiral from something like that. Its happened to me before.

If you aren't taking any pain medications or treating your back pain in some way, then I recommend doing so. Whether its OTC pain meds, acupuncture, or prescription meds, whatever you need to take your pain level down enough so it isn't giving you that bad stress that wears you down. I don't know how bad your back pain/injury is, but could you find some exercise that doesn't aggravate it? Walking or swimming aren't weightlifting, but they beat the hell out of doing nothing. Upper body only, or calisthenics like pushups and pullups might be an option. High intensity interval training(sprints) are pretty comparable to weight training in some ways if you could do something like that.

I wish you the best. Deal with the pain if its there. Rehabilitate the injury. Stay as active as possible, in any way you can find that is pain free. Try to stay positive, because things will get better if you keep trying even if they get worse before they get better. I've been there man, I feel your pain. Good luck.

[jcalderaio]

Thanks you, I appreciate your input. The pain isn't really too bad. It's only bad when sitting for long periods of time, or weight lifting or intense exercise. I actually just came back from the movies sitting for 2 hours, and my back is fine. It's really just the inability to workout thats affecting me. I do take ibuprofen everyday, as prescription meds are not an option (I'm a recovering addict, 6 years sober).

I have become lazy since hurting my back, and even getting out of bed has become hard haha!! I guess I'll just have to push myself harder. I really do still need help identifying if it's the Inositol or the Bacopa that's causing this brain fog, however...

[deh707]

Definitely stop the choline intake; and only use it when you notice piracetam headaches.

[jcalderaio]

It's not the choline. I've always used a 2:1 Piracetam to Choline ratio and I've never had an issue. It's for sure one of the new supplements. I dont want to stop taking either because apparently it takes both about a month to start working, and I've already been on em for 2 weeks and dont want to have to restart. Any ideas?

[Metagene]

If those are the two choices I'd say Inositol. Search the forum for similar reports.

[deh707]

It's not the choline. I've always used a 2:1 Piracetam to Choline ratio and I've never had an issue. It's for sure one of the new supplements. I dont want to stop taking either because apparently it takes both about a month to start working, and I've already been on em for 2 weeks and dont want to have to restart. Any ideas?

You could be right, but it's hard to assess how much choline each individual requires for a certain amount of Piracetam.

Personally, I find that even at 4.8g Piracetam, a mere 300mg choline citrate is enough to avoid headaches. Or, when using one of the higher quality choline sources; Alpha-GPC at a low dose of 100mg is definitely enough for 4.8g Piracetam.

There were multiple times in my experiments where I would get massive brain-fog, and in all of those time-frames, I was dosing 1g choline citrate with every 4.8g piracetam dose. This wasn't an immediate, sudden onset of brainfog though, each time it started happening; I notice it was into 2 weeks of upping my choline doses.

Even when I switched to Alpha-GPC @ 300mg for every 4.8g Piracetam dose; only this time it took about a week to start noticing.

It's like the choline builds up in your system after dosing too much too often; I'm not so sure.


Also, it could be Bacopa. Many others including myself, find that the first week of daily Bacopa dosing causes a sedated/brainfog feeling.

As for 5-HTP, I hear it shouldn't be used on a daily basis?

[jcalderaio]

I require AT LEAST a 2:1 piracetam:choline ratio to prevent headaches, as I am already extremely prone to cranial aches lol. It's already been about 2 -3 weeks, and I still have this memory impairment. It's not even so much a "brain fog", as it is "tip of the tongue" syndrome. I'll remember something only as far as my brain will allow it to go, but I wont remember it far enough as to let my mind formulate the correct word for it, if that makes any sense. All I know is that I am about f-ing done with bacopa and inositol. I'm done. I also need to get back in the gym, thats INTEGRAL!!!

[aghonia]

did you consider to take magnesium?

Perhaps the abrupt cessation of training requires some time for hormones production to settle

Edited by aghonia, 27 July 2013 - 12:46 PM.

[Passion]

It's most likely the piracetam. I don't know why so many people on the boards neglect or forget about it but there there have been many reports here of piracetam causing brain fog after using it for a while.

People will tell you to take it with choline or without choline and some will even suggest adding some glutamate (note: don't EVER do this), but I don't think there is a consensus around what to do to make piracetam work consistently or how to address the brain fog so many seem to get from it.

The best way to tell is to stop taking them all and then introduce them back into your stack one at a time. I'd try piracetam first

In my piracetam experience: it made me feel like a god for a few weeks and then started having the opposite effects. It got to the point where I felt completely demented and it took me a few seconds to answer even simple questions. That went away after a few hours each time though and then I stopped taking it.

[jcalderaio]

I actually only just yesterday introduced piracetam back into my stack. I was without it for a few weeks, taking no racetams for about 3 weeks. It could also be from intense anxiety that I have been experiencing. I have generalized anxiety disorder, but refuse to take anything too strong or addictive to treat it.

[Passion]

It's definitely possible that your anxiety is the cause. It might also be the interaction between any of these drugs/supplements. I think the incremental adding approach is a good one. Drop all supps for a few days, then add in the ones you suspect are at fault, one by one, for 3 or 4 days at a time. A week is preferable but not always realistic.

[telight]

I actually only just yesterday introduced piracetam back into my stack. I was without it for a few weeks, taking no racetams for about 3 weeks. It could also be from intense anxiety that I have been experiencing. I have generalized anxiety disorder, but refuse to take anything too strong or addictive to treat it.

Were you still taking choline during this time?

[jcalderaio]

Hey guys. It was the inositol causing the issue, as I stopped taking it and my memory is back in full swing. Thanks for the help!

[Joe Cohen]

Piracetam causes brain fog by inducing oxidative stress to the hypothalamus

http://selfhacked.co...with-piracetam/