33 replies to this topic

[caveat]

As I see it, there are 2 points then considering fish oil quality:
1)EPA/DHA ratio
2)Rancidity

Rancidity - basic check is to simply open one capsule, let's say, once a week. If it's rancid - there should be strong odor indicating it.

Other than that - is there really a difference ?

To compare, two examples:
1)Carlson Salmon Oil, 110/90 EPA/DHA, 0,09$ / capsule.
2)Random ebay guy, 180/120 EPA/DHA, 0,03$ / capsule.

Assuming the capsules from the ebay DO contain the amount said (considering 5,000 sales of the product - fair assumption).

Can the EPA/DHA 'quality' differ ? Or any other catches regarding the quality ?

[blood]

Is tasting a capsule an accurate way of estimating the level of oxidative products present?

What about heavy metals or other contaminants?

If you want third part testing for every batch (active ingredients, PCB/dioxin levels, degree of oxidation, etc) you could look for a product with a 5 star IFOS rating.

http://www.ifosprogr...os-program.aspx

[mrd1]

What about a happy medium and something like this http://www.amazon.co...ywords=fish oil it is 0.04 cents a capsule and kirkland has a big name to keep up so won't try and make a few bucks skimping on fish oil.

[Luddist]

Definitely test at least one from each new bottle. And store in the fridge.

I've read that heat will increase rancidity, so I don't ship fish oil in the summer. My backup plan is to buy the triple strength Nature's Bounty stuff from Costco. But I wonder, depending on the supply chain, how much heat almost any fish oil has been subjected to in hot trucks. I kind of doubt Costco, grocery stores, Amazon and most other online supplement retailers go to the expense of using refrigerated trucks for fish oil. A safe bet might be buying a year's supply of a high volume brand from a high volume retailer around March or so and keeping it in the refrigerator. Or maybe heat doesn't matter as much as I think it might?

Another thing I've read is that, like olive oil, light exposure of fish oil should be kept to a minimum. Most brands use opaque or darkened plastics for bottles but there are some that use clear plastic and should probably be avoided.

[nameless]

Agree with Luddist on the Summer thing. I usually stock up in Spring, just to be safe. And if I do run out, I get it local at Vitamin Shoppe, rather than ship. The few times I have had fish oil shipped over warm months, the oil tended to taste rather fishy.

As for differences in quality, rancidity should be about equal amongst most brands -- always best to at least taste the first capsule. But PCBs/mercury/etc. amounts may differ. There are differences in forms too, natural triglyceride, reconstituted triglyceride and ethyl ester. The trig forms probably will absorb a little better than ethyl ester.

The way I look at it, rather than go cheap with fish oil, I just buy Nordic Naturals or a decent brand. Most people probably shouldn't be taking large doses anyway, unless you have some sort of autoimmune disease, so at 1-2 caps daily, even expensive fish oils really aren't that expensive. I suggest probably avoiding salmon and large fish type oils (like shark liver) due to pcbs and contaminants, just to be safe.

Edited by nameless, 14 August 2013 - 11:46 PM.

[Hebbeh]

Isn't the fish oil shipped in the same type of hot truck on it's way to the local Vitamin Shop as it would be direct to your house? Actually, most chain shops like that have trucks that make a route across a region stopping at multiple stores, and as such, probably spend more days in the back of the hot truck making the rounds rather than a Fedex truck from the Internet Warehouse straight to your door.

Edited by Hebbeh, 15 August 2013 - 12:59 AM.

[unregistered_user]

I just bought 4 bottles of this: Madre Labs Omega 3 Premium Fish Oil

At $4.82 per bottle the value couldn't be beat. The reviews are all positive as well.

[greenmonster]

http://www.truenutri...-softgels.aspx? i win ?

[unregistered_user]

http://www.truenutri...-softgels.aspx? i win ?

Yep, you definitely found a better value there. I wonder how these products compare to one another?

I notice the TrueNutrition product has a 2 year shelf life from the MFG date whereas the Madre Labs product has a 3 year shelf life. I was unable to find much information on TrueNutrition's quality standards for their fish oil nor could I locate information on the origins they source from. That information was found pretty quickly on the Madre Labs product page. I am also unable to ascertain how the fish oil is obtained in the TrueNutrition product. Is it cold pressed? Molecularly distilled?

Nonetheless, the price is appealing but I would like to know more about it before making a purchase.

Edited by semi-retarded-individual, 15 August 2013 - 03:26 AM.

[nameless]

Isn't the fish oil shipped in the same type of hot truck on it's way to the local Vitamin Shop as it would be direct to your house? Actually, most chain shops like that have trucks that make a route across a region stopping at multiple stores, and as such, probably spend more days in the back of the hot truck making the rounds rather than a Fedex truck from the Internet Warehouse straight to your door.

Probably true, which is why I like to stock up before the hot weather hits. If I have to get it at VS, there is the chance it wasn't actually shipped during the warm months, as they keep stock for a while. That's why it's good to test the first capsule.

And for whatever reason, whenever I've ordered fish oil and had it shipped during Summer months, it always arrives bad. Maybe I just get super hot UPS trucks, or they leave it on the porch too long -- or more likely it sits in a hot UPS warehouse for a day or two.

If you ship it overnight Fedex, that probably would be the best way, although then it's pricier.

Edited by nameless, 15 August 2013 - 06:49 AM.

[nameless]

http://www.truenutri...-softgels.aspx? i win ?

That's exactly the sort of product I wouldn't get. No antioxidants listed under ingredients, no idea what type of fish are used, no info on distillation method, and as an extra bonus, it's a brand nobody has heard of before.

If you want to go cheap, at least get a normal brand. You can get 400 softgels of the Kirkland brand fish oil at Costco for like $12. Or go for something like Natrol 150 gels for $7. They may not be the highest quality, but they should be a lot safer than oddball brands.

Edited by nameless, 15 August 2013 - 06:53 AM.

[nupi]

http://www.iherb.com...-Softgels/30706 not all that cheap but at least the IFOS reports look good. Plus iHerb has an AC'ed warehouse.

[Lemon.]

Yeah, well said thank you BUT for the highest quality you would need to take the "oil" itself , the pills are not as strong.

[mrd1]

What if you just take a extra fish oil pill or two?

[Luddist]

Yeah, well said thank you BUT for the highest quality you would need to take the "oil" itself , the pills are not as strong.

Too much fish oil can suppress immune function and might just result in too much omega 3s circulating in your blood. 1g softgels aren't too hard to take once or twice a day, and can come in high concentrations of omega 3s. Why would highest quality be non-encapsulated oil?

[Lemon.]

Yeah, well said thank you BUT for the highest quality you would need to take the "oil" itself , the pills are not as strong.

Too much fish oil can suppress immune function and might just result in too much omega 3s circulating in your blood. 1g softgels aren't too hard to take once or twice a day, and can come in high concentrations of omega 3s. Why would highest quality be non-encapsulated oil?

What I am saying is, taking the oil is better than tablets because it does not require as much.

[mrd1]

"Too much fish oil can suppress immune function and might just result in too much omega 3s circulating in your blood." Where have you heard that? Sounds, interesting

3.5g fish oil for 12 weeks (otherwise healthy 50-70yrs) has failed to significantly influence IL-2[386] and failed to influence with 2g daily in persons with isolated hypertriglyceridemia.[387] However, 18g of fish oil (2,754g EPA and 1854mg DHA) daily in otherwise healthy youth has been noted to reduce secretion of IL-2 in stimulated PBMCs by a variable 23-52%[374] and in type II diabetics, IL-2 has been reduced following fish oil supplementation (1,548mg EPA and 338mg DHA for 8 weeks) by 17.1%.[388] The efficacy of fish oil in suppressing T-cell activity and IL-2 does not appear to depend on disease state.

"The sIL-2R has been shown to be present in the culture supernatants of activated MNCs as well as in normal sera and, in higher amounts, in sera from subjects affected by several diseases including neoplastic, infectious and autoimmune ones, and in sera from transplanted patients suffering allograft rejection. " (http://www.ncbi.nlm....les/PMC2365387/)

In some cases lowering the IL-2 with chronic fishoil supplementation could be seen as a good thing because the body is much more complex than any boost in the immune system being good and any decrease being bad. And, even if a normal person took a chronic dose enough to effect the IL-2 receptor it still is shown to be well tolerated.

A elevated IL-2 is associated with a immunology abnormality. So, yes fish oil in chronic doses can "decrease the immune system" but the part of the immune system it is decreasing is not what we think of when we think a high immune system is a good thing. Rather, its decrease in IL-2 could be seen maybe as more of a regulatory or modulating effect. And, it is still unclear if the decrease from extreme doses in healthy persons would even have any relevant effects to them.

Having too much omega 3s circulating in your blood is probably not possible. Humans used to live on a 1:1:2 ratio of omega 3:6:9. Also fishoil isn't even 1000% omega 3's anyway. My 1000mg fishoil only supplies 250mg of omega threes and a 2000 calorie diet eating the ideal omega 3:6:9 ratio that caveman ate one would be consuming 55,000mg of omega 3s a day or over 200 fish oil capsels and while they would probably have side effects it would still not be from too much omega 3s circulating in your blood.

Fishoil has omega3s however omega threes are not = fishoil

[nameless]

What I am saying is, taking the oil is better than tablets because it does not require as much.

Not really true at all. All fish oils come in various concentrations. Once upon a time I used Carlson's liquid, which is a pretty low concentration. I'd have to take twice as much liquid than I would if taking a higher concentrate r-trig capsule. Liquid or capsule doesn't matter, it's the concentration that matters.

The general low level fish oil is around 30% concentrate, or 300mg EPA/DHA per cap. They can get up to 90%, but on average the higher concentrates are like 50-60%.

The immune suppression thing is a bit tricky, in my opinion. As we (or at least I) don't know how much of it is modulation vs true suppression. The studies are mixed on this too ... some show reduced killer cell activity... while others have no effect. There is at least one oxidation study with DHA that showed it took a relatively low amount to increase oxidation in the body, but it was an algae study and sort of badly set up. Perhaps formulation plays a role too, as antioxidants may not have been in some of the studied oils, or some of the oils could have been rancid, etc. I believe too much fish oil can affect the immune system in a negative way, but what that level specifically is... no idea.

Still, there really isn't much data supporting megadosing the stuff, unless you have a disease that potentially could benefit.

[greenmonster]

http://www.truenutri...-softgels.aspx? i win ?

That's exactly the sort of product I wouldn't get. No antioxidants listed under ingredients, no idea what type of fish are used, no info on distillation method, and as an extra bonus, it's a brand nobody has heard of before.

If you want to go cheap, at least get a normal brand. You can get 400 softgels of the Kirkland brand fish oil at Costco for like $12. Or go for something like Natrol 150 gels for $7. They may not be the highest quality, but they should be a lot safer than oddball brands.

it ain't a big wasted try it ahah I've finished 2 bottles

[nupi]

Too much fish oil can suppress immune function and might just result in too much omega 3s circulating in your blood. 1g softgels aren't too hard to take once or twice a day, and can come in high concentrations of omega 3s. Why would highest quality be non-encapsulated oil?

Encapsulated oil is likely to be of better quality - those enteric coatings do at least prevent some oxidation. Oh, and one can actually stand the taste.

[DAVID MUSTRI]

some times pay cheap get cheap, so ...

[timar]

Regarding lipid peroxidation, it's pretty insignificant whether your ship fish oil is shipped at ambient temperatures of, say 15°C or 30°C. That meager 15° difference over a short period of time vs a one year (or longer) storage period should hardly matter at all. The rancidity of the oil will mostly depend on the level of oxygen exposure before and during encapsulation. This is where you can expect quality differences, as a good manufacturer will not only control for contaminants in the oil but also select the oil for low peroxide values and process it under low oxygen conditions.

[Hope47]

I take 1gm of both EPA and DHA from two different brands.Total 4 caps, two from each bottle everyday.

http://www.jarrow.co...duct/90/Max_DHA

http://www.nowfoods....80-Softgels.htm

[Brundle99]

Hi guys, I hope this thread is still active because I'm struggling to find anyone with a fair amount of knowledge about fish oil.

I realise that a lot of the store bought stuff is either rancid or of low quality, so I went for a well known suppliment Company in the UK called Healthspan.

Here's a link to the product so you can see what it's like: http://www.healthspa.../omega-3-liquid

By the way I'm not trying to promote it, so not encouraging people to buy.

They claim it's an award winning fish oil, so let's see if it looks high quality.

I asked for the C.O.A (certificate of analysis) from the Company so I can ask someone to look at the figures, to see if it is as filtered and clean as they make out.

I'm particularly interested in the PCB or Dioxins, heavy metals results, if this is the most important thing affecting health.

I would be very greatful if someone could give me a run down of the results on the COA.

Thanks!  image.jpg   157.12KB   26 downloads  image.jpg   157.12KB   26 downloads  image.jpg   157.12KB   26 downloads

[Brundle99]

Sorry don't know why it copied pic three times.

[timar]

This seems to be a decent quality fish oil.

However, I would not advice you to take liquid fish oil if you don't use the bottle up within two weeks. The oil may be of good quality as long as the bottle is sealed, but is will rapidly oxidize even if it is stored in the refridgerator (as it should be).

The oil in capsules is much better protected from oxidation because, if manufatured adequately, the gelantin shell is almost impenetrable for oxygen. Therefore, caps last for several years, while a bottle goes rancid within weeks after opening.

What I don't like about this fish oil is that it is only 21% EPA and DHA. There are concentrated triglyceride oils available with up to 60% EPA and DHA. The more concentrated, the more more purified the oil and the lower the levels of possible contaminants.

I have good experiences with the fish oil caps sold by Nature's Best (which is identical to Lambert's). It is 55% EPA/DHA and very good value for money. Moreover, if I cut open a capsule, it smells fresh even after more than one year of room temperature storage.

Edited by timar, 29 November 2013 - 06:47 PM.

[Brundle99]

This seems to be a decent quality fish oil.

However, I would not advice you to take liquid fish oil if you don't use the bottle up within two weeks. The oil may be of good quality as long as the bottle is sealed, but is will rapidly oxidize even if it is stored in the refridgerator (as it should be).

The oil in capsules is much better protected from oxidation because, if manufatured adequately, the gelantin shell is almost impenetrable for oxygen. Therefore, caps last for several years, while a bottle goes rancid within weeks after opening.

What I don't like about this fish oil is that it is only 21% EPA and DHA. There are concentrated triglyceride oils available with up to 60% EPA and DHA. The more concentrated, the more more purified the oil and the lower the levels of possible contaminants.

I have good experiences with the fish oil caps sold by Nature's Best (which is identical to Lambert's). It is 55% EPA/DHA and very good value for money. Moreover, if I cut open a capsule, it smells fresh even after more than one year of room temperature storage.

Great help Timar, thank you!

I keep it in the fridge, and it says on the label use within 2 months of opening.

I will certainly think about only using it a shorter time.

It has Vitamin E added as a natural preserver, so I thought that would prevent it going rancid up to 2 months.

I thought that this liquid was a high strength fish oil from the name, but I guess it means total fish oil and not total EPA DHA.

Never thought about that after looking at label so thanks for noticing that!.

I started out with fish oil capsules from http://www.highernat...-3#.UpjxI38gGK0

But It doesn't look very high in both EPA DHA either.

I switched to liquid assuming the liquid would be more bio available.

I'm going to look at your link now, thanks for your help

Regards

Kyle

[timar]

It has Vitamin E added as a natural preserver, so I thought that would prevent it going rancid up to 2 months.

There's always an antioxidant added to fish oil (if not, you should stay away from it). I doubt however that it will stay sufficiently fresh for more than one month at most. I once saw a study (can't find it right now, sorry) where liquid fish oil was taken out of the fridge each day, and a sample was analysed for its peroxide value. They found that it reached the tolerable limit after about one month.

The trouble is, if your liquid fish oil is flavoured with lemon oil to mask the fishy taste you won't notice it when the oil is becoming rancid - until it has gone rancid to a degree that is definitely unhealthy.

http://www.highernat...-3#.UpjxI38gGK0[/url]

But It doesn't look very high in both EPA DHA either.

Always look for the EPA and DHA content. It's the only thing that matters. So if you compare prices, don't compare the prices for the total amount of fish oil but those for the combined EPA and DHA content. And prefer oils that have a higher EPA and DHA content not only for the price but also for their higher purity.

I switched to liquid assuming the liquid would be more bio available.

There should be no difference in bioavailability. The gelantin capsule dissolves in the stomach.

I'm going to look at your link now, thanks for your help

Comparing them with those you took before the way I just described, they are half the price of those.

Edited by timar, 29 November 2013 - 09:27 PM.

[Next]

I don't mess around and just go with LEF brand fish oil when its on sale, like now. Good idea/bad idea?

Anyone have any negative experiences with LEF Fish oil?

[blood]

I don't mess around and just go with LEF brand fish oil when its on sale, like now. Good idea/bad idea?

Anyone have any negative experiences with LEF Fish oil?

The LEF Omega-3 product with sesame lignans & olive leaf extract is IFOS certified, which means each batch of the finished product is tested (by a third party). You can go on the IFOS web site to see the results for the particular batch you have purchased:
http://www.ifosprogr...er-reports.aspx

Thanks for mentioning the LEF sale - time for me to stock up.