40 replies to this topic

[db73]

I tried using the ubiquitous Centrum multivitamin a few months ago but saw that I kept getting headaches almost every day of using it, so stopped. I recently purchased Ortho-core from AOR, tried taking a couple of capsules (while the recommended dosage is 9/day!), and ended up with headache again...

Does anyone have any idea why this is happening, whether taking these at different times of day matters (I took one immediately after breakfast, another after lunch and that was enough...), or any other factors that can help me with these, as I would like to supplement my diet with some sort of MV...

Thanks!

[scottl]

The only adverse reactions which I have seen from time to time with multi's are from the "high" doses of B vitamins and they often resolve when the body gets used to them. The reaction is typically nausea although headache may be a reaction also, I really don't remember. HOWEVER centrum contains (unless they've changed things) homeopathic i.e. miniscule doses of B vitamins and quite frankly one of my few disagreements with the AOR folks is that there aren't high enough doses of B vitamins in their products either IMHO.

Sooo I think something is fishy.

Tell me about you.
How old? Do you have allergies/hay fever/asthma/sensitive skin/"ectopy"?
How is your diet...i.e. do you eat a lot of junk? Are you particularly stressed now and in recent months? Are you getting sufficient sleep?

[db73]

yep, defnintely fishy!
31 y.o., not allergic or sensitive to anything that I know of, eat quite healthily, exercise regularly, omega-3 supplements, the lot!
Getting reasonable sleep (around 7 hours a night), not too stressed...I'm at a loss, I hoped someone had had a similar reaction or just an reasonable explanation...

Thanks again

[scottl]

OK lets do an experiement (if you are open to it). Find a health food store near you and purchase a good name brand (twinlab, solgar etc... not a house brand) B-50 in capsule form. Should be pretty cheap. Then first thing upon awakening in the morning on an empty stomach take a tiny fraction of the b vitamin e.g. empty out like 95% of the capsule, put the capsule back together and swallow it. Or just dump some tiny fraction of the capsule in a glass of water. Either way make sure you drink a large glass of water with this.

Let me know if you have any reaction.

NB: it has to be a really high quality brand and capsule form so we know you are just ingesting the b vits and no fillers, etc.

[jwb1234567890]

You may be getting dehydrated so you might want to increase the amount of water you intake and cut down the amount of diuretics.
I got bad headaches when taking berocca (mega doses of C and B vitamins in these).

Also I am not sure what centrum you take but the one I take you get your RDA for most of the vits in one pill.

Either that or the painstaking approach which is try each vit individually and see which one you can't tolerate.

Jack

[db73]

yep, I guess there must be one that I'm not responding well to...
Scott, I wouldn't think it's vitamin B, as you say centrum has really low amounts of this, and you say you think so do AOR products.
I doubt whether I'll try and work out which it is one by one as this would be "slightly" too much...I guess I'll try 1 capsule a day and see if I get used to it. If not, it'll go to friends or family...

D

[db73]

Update: it seems that I was indeed getting dehydrated. Why should this happen from one capsule of Ortho-core?
Anyway, I've significantly increased my water consumption and this seems to have taken care of the headaches. I must say, though, that I still feel a bit zonked during the day after taking one of these at breakfast, a bit tired and woozy, not sure I will continue seeing as this is affecting my work...

[lynx]

For people sensitive to regular Vitamins, New Chapter whole foods vits work really well. They also just released a line of Organic Vitamins for the purist.

[jwb1234567890]

Update: it seems that I was indeed getting dehydrated. Why should this happen from one capsule of Ortho-core?
Anyway, I've significantly increased my water consumption and this seems to have taken care of the headaches. I must say, though, that I still feel a bit zonked during the day after taking one of these at breakfast, a bit tired and woozy, not sure I will continue seeing as this is affecting my work...

well you are mega-dosing on many soluable vitamins.. as far as I am aware there is not much scientific data to support this as being very beneficial, especially if it makes you feel zonked, better just to stick to a standard multivitamin which just gives you your 100% RDA which is then being supplemented with your varied diet anyway.

After all if the body needed the vitamins that much why would it spend so much effort getting them out of the body so quickly.

[vastman]

quote: "as far as I am aware there is not much scientific data to support this as being very beneficial,"

You're not very aware. You obviously haven't taken the time to peruse all of the information/reseach on supplements. I won't waste anymore of my time on this but have to wonder why you are posting here with this type of attitude? You'd be better off using your time studying up on the subject you know nothing about, if your comments are any indication of your knowledgebase.

And one capsule of AOR's Ortho Core is not "mega-dosing" Ditto on your RDA comment. Ignorant...

Quote: "After all if the body needed the vitamins that much why would it spend so much effort getting them out of the body so quickly."

Oh boy, again a simple mind babbling rather than trying to figure things out... try looking at the recent links on PEG where this issue is discussed, not from the viewpoint you just spewed but from the scientific challenge of delivering whats needed to where it needs to go...if you really want to know. Naw....might take a bit o work to find it...

In the course of my journey to better understand this very complex area I've invested hundreds of hours trying to get a grip on it all and I still have sooooo much to learn. I am humbled by the wisdom and experience of many of the posters on this forum. What I like best is there ain't a bunch of small stupid talk....there are lots of other forums for that.

Edited by vastman, 12 July 2005 - 08:53 AM.

[jwb1234567890]

quote: "as far as I am aware there is not much scientific data to support this as being very beneficial,"

You're not very aware.  You obviously haven't taken the time to peruse all of the information/reseach on supplements.  I won't waste anymore of my time on this but have to wonder why you are posting here with this type of attitude?  You'd be better off using your time studying up on the subject you know nothing about, if your comments are any indication of your knowledgebase.

And one capsule of AOR's Ortho Core is not "mega-dosing"  Ditto on your RDA comment. Ignorant...

Quote: "After all if the body needed the vitamins that much why would it spend so much effort getting them out of the body so quickly."

Oh boy, again a simple mind babbling rather than trying to figure things out... try looking at the recent links on PEG where this issue is discussed, not from the viewpoint you just spewed but from the scientific challenge of delivering whats needed to where it needs to go...if you really want to know.  Naw....might take a bit o work to find it...

In the course of my journey to better understand this very complex area I've invested  hundreds of hours trying to get a grip on it all and I still have sooooo much to learn.  I am humbled by the wisdom and experience of many of the posters on this forum.  What I like best is there ain't a bunch of small stupid talk....there are lots of other forums for that.

Don't insult me vast-mind man, my simple mind is very fragile.

Point us to the human trials that show this to be efficacious (in your 100 of hours of researching you must have a nice store of these). You might be willing to be a guinea pig without this but I am not.

Taking 20 times the RDA is mega dosing.

Your words show you to have little humility.

And how about rather than attacking me trying to help out the original poster with the fact that hes 'a bit zonked during the day after taking one of these at breakfast, a bit tired and woozy', doesn't exactly sound optimal.

I found one link to PEG which was posted by you... posters in the thread already disagree with what you linked to, hardly a definitive source. And as you are probably aware its not possible to search for a string with less than 4 characters on this website, again thanks for being unhelpful.

[vastman]

I was definately in a testy mood yesterday and could have left out some of the inflamatory verbage. But my comments stand.

[jwb1234567890]

As do my points as I originally posted them, and my follow on comments and challenges I made to your statements which are currently unanswered by you.
Regards

[scottl]

QUOTE (jwb1234567890)
"Point us to the human trials that show this to be efficacious (in your 100 of hours of researching you must have a nice store of these)."


1. Did you see this:
http://www.imminst.o...T&f=6&t=7043&s=

2. You wrote:
QUOTE (jwb1234567890)

"Taking 20 times the RDA is mega dosing."

Your use of the phrase "mega-dosing" suggests the typical anti-vitamin histeria of the anti-vitamin mafia (remember them Ozone?) which is prevalent.

As I recall a B-25 contains about 11 Times the RDA of many B vitamins and is not enough for many people (based on my experience in working with people).

QUOTE (jwb1234567890)

"You might be willing to be a guinea pig without this but I am not."


No problem. Take a theragram and come back in 50 years when the data you wish may exist. For the most part the mindset to look for optimal doses of vitamins does not even exist.

Edited by scottl, 14 July 2005 - 09:54 AM.

[vastman]

scottl....
Thanks Didn't even want to go there with this guy he pissed me off so much. Sounds like my f....... Kaiser doctor! U B cool.

jbw.... ain't gonna waste my time. Shouldn't have the first time. Do your own homework It's my birthday and at a young 55 I realize how precious time is and ......who's signature is .....

suffer a fool......never! boy, I like that one.....

[scottl]

vastman,

Well he hangs out in the SENS forum so one would think he would be a more open minded...

[vastman]

just because he hangs out in SENS doesn't mean he has any.....

jeeeze.... it's 4 am and I gotta stop this and learn something worthwhile... Not the best way to start my birthday flaming some yo yo....also I just realized that responding keeps this crap at the top of the heap when it should be allowed to fall to the bottom of the barrel....

love the new pic...wolf? Huskey? Keeshound?

[scottl]

It is one of the default choices...ya I love dogs. And it sounds like you know more about dogs then I.

[vastman]

doggonit, scottl, this is the closest I've ever got to "online chatting"...well, it's now 5am for me and I gotta get an hours sleep befor startin the day.... lets see now, where's my ortho-mine and strontium? Pleasent dreams, all....

[jwb1234567890]

QUOTE (jwb1234567890)
"Point us to the human trials that show this to be efficacious (in your 100 of hours of researching you must have a nice store of these)."


1. Did you see this:
http://www.imminst.o...T&f=6&t=7043&s=

2. You wrote:
QUOTE (jwb1234567890)

"Taking 20 times the RDA is mega dosing."

Your use of the phrase "mega-dosing" suggests the typical anti-vitamin histeria of the anti-vitamin mafia (remember them Ozone?) which is prevalent.

As I recall a B-25 contains about 11 Times the RDA of many B vitamins and is not enough for many people (based on my experience in working with people).

QUOTE (jwb1234567890)

"You might be willing to be a guinea pig without this but I am not."


No problem. Take a theragram and come back in 50 years when the data you wish may exist. For the most part the mindset to look for optimal doses of vitamins does not even exist.

Thanks for the link, but that applies to patients at cardiovascular risk and with an age-corresponding plasma HCy concentration of which I am neither so not exactly conclusive evidence. Is this the strongest evidence out there?
Do you have any studies on healthy individuals?

I am not anti-vitamin, what terminology would you prefer I use rather than mega-dosing? how about '20 times the recommended daily amount dosing'. Well if that makes you feel better there you go, its not as succinct but at least it doesn't have bad connotations for you.

The problem I have with '20 times the recommended daily amount dosing' is that it gives me headaches if I don't drink gallons of water, and the benefits you outline are tenuous. Though of course I thank you for the link as if I am in the high risk category the study was looking at I will start taking those dosages even with the having to drink gallons of water.

Well 50 years is a long time, my hope is that biotechnology will have progressed enough for it to be less of a guessing game, while that happens I plan to eat healthly, exercise well and stay happy.

And you end on saying that there is no optimum dosage, even while advocating one?

[jwb1234567890]

To Vastman,
Your sig line should read 'low on content, high on vitriol'
Have a look at the following link, maybe then you can debate like an adult.
http://www.intrepids...fallacy/toc.php

Each time I ask you to show me the money, to show me the evidence for your position, you continue to insult me.

Oh wait no you did provide some evidence... you made it to 55 in one piece!!!! well done the 20x the RDA must work then!!! oh wait my mother is older than that and in great condition and she hasn't touched a tablet, oh well try again. Get back to me when your 100 and still walking around then I will be impressed and pop those pills with a happy grin on my face.

Oh and you should take up yoga, tai chi or an anger management classes otherwise you wont be making it past the two digits.

If you have to be uncouth can you at least have the decency to PM me so as to not waste others peoples time reading your baseless ad hominem attacks.

I look forward to some more insightful comments from you... and hope for something approaching a discussion on the reasons behind your point of view.

I will promise to keep an open mind if you can.

[scottl]

QUOTE (jwb1234567890)
"Point us to the human trials that show this to be efficacious (in your 100 of hours of researching you must have a nice store of these)."


1. Did you see this:
http://www.imminst.o...T&f=6&t=7043&s=

2. You wrote:
QUOTE (jwb1234567890)

"Taking 20 times the RDA is mega dosing."

Your use of the phrase "mega-dosing" suggests the typical anti-vitamin histeria of the anti-vitamin mafia (remember them Ozone?) which is prevalent.

As I recall a B-25 contains about 11 Times the RDA of many B vitamins and is not enough for many people (based on my experience in working with people).

QUOTE (jwb1234567890)

"You might be willing to be a guinea pig without this but I am not."


No problem. Take a theragram and come back in 50 years when the data you wish may exist. For the most part the mindset to look for optimal doses of vitamins does not even exist.

Thanks for the link, but that applies to patients at cardiovascular risk and with an age-corresponding plasma HCy concentration of which I am neither so not exactly conclusive evidence. Is this the strongest evidence out there?
Do you have any studies on healthy individuals?

I am not anti-vitamin, what terminology would you prefer I use rather than mega-dosing? how about '20 times the recommended daily amount dosing'. Well if that makes you feel better there you go, its not as succinct but at least it doesn't have bad connotations for you.

The problem I have with '20 times the recommended daily amount dosing' is that it gives me headaches if I don't drink gallons of water, and the benefits you outline are tenuous. Though of course I thank you for the link as if I am in the high risk category the study was looking at I will start taking those dosages even with the having to drink gallons of water.

Well 50 years is a long time, my hope is that biotechnology will have progressed enough for it to be less of a guessing game, while that happens I plan to eat healthly, exercise well and stay happy.

And you end on saying that there is no optimum dosage, even while advocating one?

1. There ain't one optimal diet for everyone and their ain't one amount of supps that work best for everyone.

2. Someone as educated as yourself surely knows how the:

"the recommended daily amount dosing"

were created and optimal amounts for healh had zero to do with it.

How about 20 times the amounts recommended by monkeys? Closer to the truth.
If you consider those recommendations a place to even begin discussing doses of vits then I'm wasting my typing.

3. The problem I have with '20 times the recommended daily amount dosing' is that it gives me headaches if I don't drink gallons of water, and the benefits you outline are tenuous.

A. You should be drinking....LOTS of water and maintain well hydrated for reasons unrealted to this discussion.

B. Clearly you should not fight your body. If your body does not tolerate larger doses of B vites, so be it. (If you have not tested your homocysteine that is another issue).

C. you mentioned something about high doses of vit C casuing headaches. That I am skeptical of. Have you really taken isolated C and found it to cause headaches? Are you really only taking the RDA of vit c?

[scottl]

"And you end on saying that there is no optimum dosage, even while advocating one?"

1. Aside from people with idiosyncratic responses like yourself (<1/10) most people tolerate higher doses just fine.

2. B vitamin (given as a complex together) are basically non toxic....under....I suppose the lowest would B-6 where you can get some reversible changes in some people at doses as low as...a few hundred mg.

3. B vitamins are cofactors for many many reactions and if you allow for genetic variations (e.g. the homocysteine example) it seems reasonable the some people need more then others in some cases MUCH more.

4. In clinical practice the overwealming majority of people tolerate high doses and many report improvements.

5. There is info on folic acid here:
http://www.pdrhealth.../fol_0110.shtml

[eternaltraveler]

alright. No need to insult eachother. That's just silly.

[vastman]

You're so right elrond it is silly... I've been gone playing in gardens all day and having a wonderful evening with family and checkin in on the forum and find in my absense a religious war is raging on and reading it all fresh....well I just can't stop laughing...

It's like the rabid right wing bashing the rabid left wind and visa versa... sensless ... and non-productive. I love this forum because there is sooo much information to be shared and this type of engagement is just silly as you so adroidly say... thanks

and to that end, I PROMISE NOT TO CONTINUE POSTING TO THIS POLARIZED DISCUSSION.... AND I MEAN IT... REALLY.... NO MATTER WHAT YOU SAY, JWB... I WON'T TRY AND CONVINCE YOU.... YOU ARE ENTITLED TO YOUR OPINION. WHY DO I CARE, ANYWAY????

(editors note...vastman's fingers quiver, wanting to peck out the point that 5 years of LifeExtension magazine articles and the tons of research detailed on AOR's and linked to in LEF's sites alone should keep anyone truely interested in exploring this issue up all hours of the night....but he resists.....and he struggles with his burning desire to type out words like "your posting to a forum chock full of detailed supporting references and documentation on the efficacy of supplementation and how dare you say show me evidence!!!!!! But, he resists.... he calms down, chuckles to himself thinking HOW WISE ELROND IS. AND HE MEDITATES THE DESIRES TO SCREAM AT JBW AWAY....

.....and just as he is about to be able to put this issue to rest vastman thinks of that fellow warrior, scottl.... and he knows he must urge scottl to also resist....because he realizes that otherwise this stupid discusssion will remain at the tope of an otherwise great forum FOREVER!!!!

he grabs his keybord and he types: "SCOTTL.... LISTEN TO ELROND.... HE'S RIGHT.... THIS IS SILLY...." (he laughs as he types, almost bursting into tears, out of fear...and he continues typing: " DON'T DO IT, SCOTTL.... DON'T PUSH THAT SUBMIT BUTTON...... NO MATTER WHAT.... LET'S MOVE ON, CHANGE THE STATION....PLLEEEAAAASSSEEE"

And with that, vasty, for the very last time, pushes the "submit modified post" button for this topic, thinking..... o.... silly me..... silly me.....

Edited by vastman, 15 July 2005 - 07:47 AM.

[jwb1234567890]

1. There ain't one optimal diet for everyone and their ain't one amount of supps that work best for everyone.

2. Someone as educated as yourself surely knows how the:

"the recommended daily amount dosing"

were created and optimal amounts for healh had zero to do with it.

How about 20 times the amounts recommended by monkeys?  Closer to the truth.
If you consider those recommendations a place to even begin discussing doses of vits then I'm wasting my typing.

3. The problem I have with '20 times the recommended daily amount dosing' is that it gives me headaches if I don't drink gallons of water, and the benefits you outline are tenuous.

A. You should be drinking....LOTS of water and maintain well hydrated for reasons unrealted to this discussion.

B. Clearly you should not fight your body.  If your body does not tolerate larger doses of B vites, so be it. (If you have not tested your homocysteine that is another issue).

C. you mentioned something about high doses of vit C casuing headaches.  That I am skeptical of.  Have you really taken isolated C and found it to cause headaches?  Are you really only taking the RDA of vit c?

On point 2:
I fully understand that RDA has the word recommended in it for a reason, its there to stop people from getting scurvy. And its not realistic to shift up the RDAs to the dosages you think are optimal as you would get 10% of the population getting an adverse response. An optimal way to do it would be to have a set of tests to indicate what is your correct level, does such a thing exist? if that doesn't exist then we have to go with the half-way house we have at the moment.

On point 3:
A. I drink lots of water thats not the problem.
B. I agree.
C. I didn't single out vitamin C on its own. I didn't spend the time to isolate exactly what it was causing the headaches. I cut the whole dosage in half and still got the similar problems though not as strong. I don't want to spend my time on this earth getting headaches, chugging down gallons of water and running to the bathroom every twenty minutes. I have a multi-vitamin and I also eat a balanced diet so in actuality I am taking more than the RDA of everything.

"And you end on saying that there is no optimum dosage, even while advocating one?"

1.  Aside from people with idiosyncratic responses like yourself (<1/10) most people tolerate higher doses just fine.

2.  B vitamin (given as a complex together) are basically non toxic....under....I suppose the lowest would B-6 where you can get some reversible changes in some people at doses as low as...a few hundred mg.

3. B vitamins are cofactors for many many reactions and if you allow for genetic variations (e.g. the homocysteine example) it seems reasonable the some people need more then others in some cases MUCH more.

4. In clinical practice the overwealming majority of people tolerate high doses and many report improvements.

5. There is info on folic acid here:
http://www.pdrhealth.../fol_0110.shtml

For point 1 is there any evidence for what separates this sub population from everyone else?

For point 3, I think the key is identifying what exactly is your optimal amount of intake. So far the only test I have is checking if I get a headache, which is hardly very scientific:)

[scottl]

I've just had gum surgery so this will be my last post on this for a while

1. Medicine is an art not a science (I usually follow this with"get over it" in an attempt to wake people up).

2. On point 2:
I fully understand that RDA has the word recommended in it for a reason, its there to stop people from getting scurvy. And its not realistic to shift up the RDAs to the dosages you think are optimal as you would get 10% of the population getting an adverse response. An optimal way to do it would be to have a set of tests to indicate what is your correct level, does such a thing exist? if that doesn't exist then we have to go with the half-way house we have at the moment.

Good luck on finding tests.

Very simple. Have the person take a B-25 (twinlab daily one without iron is the multiple I've been rrecommending for over ten years and has about 25 mg of B vitamins) and see how they respond. If they don't have any problems with it, they won't with higher doses. If they are >40, have diabetes, etc they will be very unlikely to have problems with the vits.

3. The brand of vits you mentioned...somewhere in this thread is made by a pharmaceutical company and is much more eexpensive then need be.

4. If you aren't taking....minimum 1000 mg vit c/day (*best is mineral ascorbates*) e.g. 250 mg X 4 divided doses you are doing your body a big diservice (unlike the B vits no one I've worked with has ever had any problem with the proper form of vit c).

5. "I also eat a balanced diet"

This is a generic term without much substance which suggests that you are not aware of the importance of diet and what components of diet can do for your health.

Basically there is a lot of good information out there on diet and supplements RIGHT NOW that can make a difference in your heath that you are ignoring (e.g. are you taking any fish oil?). For example glycation or glycosylation is one of the mechansims of ageing (sp?). No one who understands this and eats accordingly would describe their diet as balanced. Dukenukem (something like that) has some posts in the diet section I think that you would do well to check out.

Overall it sounds like you are counting to technology to save your hiney down the line and not taking what steps you could be now (and now I do not mean CR, there are many steps short of that that you are not doing).

Edited by scottl, 15 July 2005 - 06:48 PM.

[scottl]

And I wonder if you really are drinking enough water. IF you ain't getting 1/2g gallon per day on non-workout days (assuming you're not 5' tall or 120 lbs) then you ain't getting enough water.

[jwb1234567890]

I've just had gum surgery so this will be my last post on this for a while

1. Medicine is an art not a science (I usually follow this with"get over it" in an attempt to wake people up).

2. On point 2:
I fully understand that RDA has the word recommended in it for a reason, its there to stop people from getting scurvy. And its not realistic to shift up the RDAs to the dosages you think are optimal as you would get 10% of the population getting an adverse response. An optimal way to do it would be to have a set of tests to indicate what is your correct level, does such a thing exist? if that doesn't exist then we have to go with the half-way house we have at the moment.

Good luck on finding tests.

Very simple.  Have the person take a B-25 (twinlab daily one without iron is the multiple I've been rrecommending for over ten years and has about 25 mg of B vitamins) and see how they respond.  If they don't have any problems with it, they won't with higher doses.  If they are >40, have diabetes, etc they will be very unlikely to have problems with the vits.

3.  The brand of vits you mentioned...somewhere in this thread is made by a pharmaceutical company and is much more eexpensive then need be.

4. If you aren't taking....minimum 1000 mg vit c/day (*best is mineral ascorbates*) e.g. 250 mg X 4 divided doses you are doing your body a big diservice (unlike the B vits no one I've worked with has ever had any problem with the proper form of vit c).

5.  "I also eat a balanced diet"

This is a generic term without much substance which suggests that you are not aware of the importance of diet and what components of diet can do for your health.

Basically there is a lot of good information out there on diet and supplements RIGHT NOW that can make a difference in your heath  that you are ignoring (e.g. are you taking any fish oil?).  For example glycation or glycosylation is one of the mechansims of ageing (sp?).  No one who understands this and eats accordingly would describe their diet as balanced.  Dukenukem (something like that) has some posts in the diet section I think that you would do well to check out.

Overall it sounds like you are counting to technology to save your hiney down the line and not taking what steps you could be now (and now I do not mean CR, there are many steps short of that that you are not doing).

1. Thats a sorry state of affairs I think its time we put the art out of medicine and put in the science;)

2. I am 28 and not diabetic.

3. I originally took berocca because for increasing energy levels not for supplementation in mind.

4. It probably varies between 300-500 daily, I have seen so many recommendations from the RDA to 8 grams per day where are you getting this 1000mg from? I have spent about a day trying to understand/researching this and didn't managed to find anything very compelling to make me up my intake. What I did find out is that its incredibly complex area with many differing and sometimes conflicting information.

5. A wishy washy statement I know all, I mean by that is that I eat a wide variety of foods. I eat fish normally 2-3 times a week mainly cod/tuna/salmon/trout. I am the first to admit however that my nutritional intake is not optimal as I enjoy eating certain foods too much, and I am more focused on kicking these bad habits first.

I am counting on technology to take me into the next century, but of course lifestyle and nutrition are vitally important.

Even with the best nutrition regime out there you will get maybe 1-5 years more than me, you can't ignore technology. Thats why supporting projects like SENS and M prize is so important and its not acceptable to just sit back.

My total water intake is about 2.5 litres a day.

[scottl]

1. Go to the the avant forum:

http://forum.avantlabs.com/

and search Benson's posts for amounts of vit c and b vitamins.

I take and recommend several grams mineral ascorbates in divided doses throughout the day. 1000 mg was a compromise for your benefit.

2. A patient goes to visit his/her doctor. The doc has been in practice 20 years. Within 20 seconds after walking into office the doc "knows" in some intuitive/undefinable way what is wrong with the patient.

You will never replace intuition/experience. (I've just picked on real example).
You and I have VERY different views on things; so be it.

Who is ignoring technology? I deal with it as it happens (and state of the art technology every day at work).

Edit: I know vaguely what SENS is. Admirable goal.

Did you see/read Crighton's dinosaur book? Remember they believed they had thought of everything? And the chaos theory guy warning them they had not? I imagine the first few (hundred?) attempts to modify things will be kinda like that.