3 replies to this topic

[Andrey_81]

Hi. I ordered cla (1000 mg pills) and l-carnitine in a liquid form (3000 mg per portion) but Im not sure how to combine this two. I go to gym 3 times per week and I also do cycling. Should I take one portion in the morning (both of the suplements) and one before gym/cycling or what?

Thank yoi

[niner]

I'd take the CLA with the highest fat meal of the day, just to make sure that you have enough fat on board to fully trigger your lipid metabolism. (I'm assuming CLA = conjugated linoleic acid.) As for the carnitine, 3 grams is a large dose, if you ask me, particularly given that carnitines have now been shown to contribute to the formation of trimethylamine (TMA) and TMA oxide, which are highly correlated with CVD. This makes me at least question the use of carnitines in healthy young people. The equation changes in the elderly, where they can be very useful. At any rate, I'd consider a lower dose. I used to take 500mg of ALCAR (an acetylated version of carnitine) twice a day. I stopped taking it entirely, but found that I got fat, lost muscle, and my lp(a) went up by 5-6 points. Not good... I've restarted at 500mg once a day, and quickly saw some fat loss. I don't think that dosing is extremely critical with carnitine- I would lean toward taking it twice a day. If you're looking for a mitochondrial boost, you may want to consider c60-oo. It's mechanistically different than carnitines, and might even be synergystic.

[markymark]

Hello Niner,

regarding your remarks on Carnitine and TMAO, I would like to point to the excellent rebuttal, written by LEF's William Falloon et al:. http://www.lef.org/m...rnitine_01.htm.
Included in the long list of references of this very well written rebuttal is also a meta analysis on carnitine, which was published nearly coincidentially.
L-carnitine in the secondary prevention of cardiovascular disease: systematic review and meta-analysis.

DiNicolantonio JJ, Lavie CJ, Fares H, Menezes AR, O'Keefe JH.
Mayo Clin Proc. 2013 Jun;88(6):544-51. doi: 10.1016/j.mayocp.2013.02.007. Epub 2013 Apr 15. Review. PMID:23597877
"CONCLUSION: Compared with placebo or control, L-carnitine is associated with a 27% reduction in all-cause mortality, a 65% reduction in VAs, and a 40% reduction in anginal symptoms in patients experiencing an acute myocardial infarction. Further study with large randomized controlled trials of this inexpensive and safe therapy in the modern era is warranted."

Like you I am very much interested in the TMAO-Carnitine issue, and I will follow whats is going to be published next.
It ist very important to consider, that the formation of potentially harmful metabolites such as TMAO from carnitine required the presence of a carnivore's gut-microbiom. Btw, heart-healthy salmon is associated with high TMAO levels.

Well, all in all I assume, that you are aware of these facts and exactly like you, I am staying on 500-1000 mg/day L-Carnitine on 4-5 days of the week. However readers of longecity might be intersted to read the LEF's and others rebuttles.
best MM

Edited by markymark, 23 October 2013 - 07:49 AM.

[niner]

regarding your remarks on Carnitine and TMAO, I would like to point to the excellent rebuttal, written by LEF's William Falloon et al:. http://www.lef.org/m...rnitine_01.htm.
Included in the long list of references of this very well written rebuttal is also a meta analysis on carnitine, which was published nearly coincidentially.
L-carnitine in the secondary prevention of cardiovascular disease: systematic review and meta-analysis.

Thanks MM, I hadn't seen that. Carnitine (or probably anything that improves cellular energetics, like c60) is useful in secondary prevention, where the person is already compromised. I still worry about long term use in young healthy people, but it's probably ok at low doses. If someone is a vegetarian, I suspect that long term carnitine use would lead to a population of gut bacteria that metabolize carnitine, so it would convert the vegetarian microbiome into one that looked more like a meat eater's.