19 replies to this topic

[N.T.M.]

I’ll do my best to make this brief. For the past several months I’ve been having very odd physical symptoms, including dizziness, fatigue, and headaches. About two months ago I modified my supplement regimen by incorporating several new supplements, and following that, my symptoms seemed to worsen. At that point I did what seemed logical and stopped taking all supplements. At the time I thought I’d maintained this for about a week and then begin to reintroduce everything in weekly increments, noting any change in symptoms (During this time I also looked up the half lives of everything I was taking to ensure I’d be starting fresh at the week’s end.). Anyway, as I began reintroducing supplements it became difficult to identify any correlations (My symptoms didn’t seem to follow any pattern in relation to what I was taking.). One thing I was able to find, however--and I should add that it’s a very tenuous connection--was an increased frequency of headaches after taking Acetyl L-carnitine.

I really wasn’t taking a lot of supplements (and currently I’m taking none), and everything I was taking was at doses far below those that had any record of toxicity, if the supplement had record of toxicity at all.

I’ll be getting a blood test done soon, but in the meantime I wanted to know if anybody here had any ideas. I was taking the following daily: Vitamin Shoppe multi, 1 tablet (1/2 full dose); fish oil, 1 softgel; D3 2000 IUs (gtt); Astragalus 500 mg; carnosine 500 mg; acetyl L-carnitine 500 mg; melatonin 10 mg (qHS); magnesium 400 mg; iodine 225 mcg (gtt); and benfotiamine 150 mg. In addition, I took vitamin C 500 mg twice daily.

I also took, and actually still take, Trazodone 50 mg for insomnia (I’ve taken it for years without trouble.).

To be clear, I couldn’t find any clear correlation between what I was feeling and the supplements I was taking.

All comments are appreciated!

Edited by N.T.M., 23 October 2013 - 01:15 AM.

[CholinergiX]

It can be benfotiamine, I had similar symtoms from sulbutiamine when I took too much.

[rosen]

Try taking the multi vit every other day instead of daily. At what times do you take vit C? I think I feel better when I take it between meals, with minerals. Also, your melatonin dose is mega. Most people take 0.5mg-3mg, a lot of them think 3mg is too much. I have taken 20+ with no serious side effects but many times when I go over 2-3mg I am more likely to experience head aches or fatigue the following morning.

[N.T.M.]

It can be benfotiamine, I had similar symtoms from sulbutiamine when I took too much.

It's such a low dose, though. Still, I can't dismiss the possibility. It's fat-soluble and doesn't have any established half-life that I'm aware of. I'll just stay off it for a while and then see if I experience any similar effects once I reintroduce it.

Try taking the multi vit every other day instead of daily. At what times do you take vit C? I think I feel better when I take it between meals, with minerals. Also, your melatonin dose is mega. Most people take 0.5mg-3mg, a lot of them think 3mg is too much. I have taken 20+ with no serious side effects but many times when I go over 2-3mg I am more likely to experience head aches or fatigue the following morning.

Yeah, I think I'll do that (the frequency of the multi). And I usually take the vitamin C with breakfast and dinner. As for the melatonin, I'll follow your suggestion there, too. I'll try taking ~1/3 my normal dose tonight. It's encouraging to hear that you experienced the exact symptoms I described.

[N.T.M.]

Well, I implemented what I discussed in my last post and my headaches resolved. The problem, though, is that when I reintroduced carnosine and acetyl L-carnitine I experienced some very unsettling effects, namely an increase in heart rate and BP. The effects slowly diminished over about 15 hours.

This is really frustrating. I'd like to, at a minimum, be able to take carnosine and acetyl L-carnitine, but that seems impossible. I've taken them in the past without any problems. This wouldn't be so surprising if they were herbal-based supplements, but amino acids?! :(

*edit* I got a blood test done. I'm waiting for the results.

Edited by N.T.M., 12 November 2013 - 12:38 AM.

[Guardian4981]

Carnitine can inhibit thyroid function, this could cause a headache if t3 gets too low.

[niner]

Were you still having symptoms during the time that you were taking no supplements? If so, maybe the supplements really don't have that much to do with it. It's possible that they are modifying the symptoms somewhat, without being directly causal. Could you be having occasional hypoglycemia?

[LizParrish]

Iodine has given me problems in the past. I am not in a position to know that is you problem though. Keep us updated.

[N.T.M.]

Carnitine can inhibit thyroid function, this could cause a headache if t3 gets too low.

Interesting. A thyroid panel was included in my test, so I should be able to find out shortly.

Were you still having symptoms during the time that you were taking no supplements? If so, maybe the supplements really don't have that much to do with it. It's possible that they are modifying the symptoms somewhat, without being directly causal. Could you be having occasional hypoglycemia?

With an exception to last night, I haven't been able to find any clear correlation between the occurrence of the symptoms and when I take any supplements. Seeing, however, that I haven't felt completely well in a while (meaning even when I was off everything), like you said, the supplements may not be directly causal. And as for the hypoglycemia, I'm not sure. The symptoms are only partly consistent--elevated HR, for example, but no diaphoresis.

I'm assuming that I'll know the results of my blood test by tomorrow.

Iodine has given me problems in the past. I am not in a position to know that is you problem though. Keep us updated.

I've stopped taking it, but I don't feel any different.

[N.T.M.]

I got the results back from the blood test and everything was normal. I'm wondering now if it may just be a response to stress and/or depression, both of which have been pretty bad lately. I'm not sure what to do next. I have a follow-up appointment in January, but I doubt anything will change during that time. More diagnostics perhaps; I don't know.

[blood]

when I reintroduced carnosine and acetyl L-carnitine I experienced some very unsettling effects, namely an increase in heart rate and BP. The effects slowly diminished over about 15 hours.

Did the carnosine provoke an increase in HR, BP when taken by itself, or when taken together with carnitine?

[N.T.M.]

when I reintroduced carnosine and acetyl L-carnitine I experienced some very unsettling effects, namely an increase in heart rate and BP. The effects slowly diminished over about 15 hours.

Did the carnosine provoke an increase in HR, BP when taken by itself, or when taken together with carnitine?

So far, only when taken with carnitine. They're supposed to be complementary, but I suppose an interaction is possible.

[blood]

when I reintroduced carnosine and acetyl L-carnitine I experienced some very unsettling effects, namely an increase in heart rate and BP. The effects slowly diminished over about 15 hours.

Did the carnosine provoke an increase in HR, BP when taken by itself, or when taken together with carnitine?

So far, only when taken with carnitine. They're supposed to be complementary, but I suppose an interaction is possible.

Maybe the carntine alone was causing the problem?

[LizParrish]

Be sure to check the inactive ingredients as well.

[N.T.M.]

when I reintroduced carnosine and acetyl L-carnitine I experienced some very unsettling effects, namely an increase in heart rate and BP. The effects slowly diminished over about 15 hours.

Did the carnosine provoke an increase in HR, BP when taken by itself, or when taken together with carnitine?

So far, only when taken with carnitine. They're supposed to be complementary, but I suppose an interaction is possible.

Maybe the carntine alone was causing the problem?

Possibly. Anyway, I don't think I'll be trying it again. I'm curious, though, if there's anything else I could take to slow the accruement of lipofuscin. That was really the main reason I took it.

Be sure to check the inactive ingredients as well.

I have. Nothing jumped out at me, but here's what it (carnitine) has: cellulose, gelatin, calcium stearate, medium chain triglycerides, and silica. The carnosine has similar but fewer additives.

[N.T.M.]

What do you guys think about Astragalus as a potential cause? I just want to rule it out. The species membranaceus doesn't have any known toxicity, does it? I'm only asking because I've always been a little leery of herbal supplements.

[CholinergiX]

Some astralagus species are known for very high selenium content, but I don't know what about membranaceous, look for selenium overdose symptoms.

[N.T.M.]

Some astralagus species are known for very high selenium content, but I don't know what about membranaceous, look for selenium overdose symptoms.

I looked it up online and apparently membranaceous isn't one of the species that accumulates selenium. It was a good idea, though. I have, however, started to notice a connection between the occurrence of what I feel and taking trazodone. It's the first strong connection that I've been able to find (and something I didn't strongly consider because I've taken it for years without problems). I'm going to do a few tests to find out if it's the trazodone by itself or in combination with something else that's causing this.

[boylan]

NTM,

Trazadone can have some nasty side effects that may build with time. My wife was taking trazadone for sleep issues also (stress). It ended up almost destroying her liver. After a blood test her gastro called the house at 7 am and told her he would meet her at the hospital! Her counts were so high he thought it was liver cancer.

Her liver recovered after she had stopped trazadone.

[N.T.M.]

NTM,

Trazadone can have some nasty side effects that may build with time. My wife was taking trazadone for sleep issues also (stress). It ended up almost destroying her liver. After a blood test her gastro called the house at 7 am and told her he would meet her at the hospital! Her counts were so high he thought it was liver cancer.

Her liver recovered after she had stopped trazadone.

I'm really struggling to get off it. I cut my dose in half for several days, and each day I didn't get to sleep until about 10:00 am. Finally, I got back on it, experienced the side effects, and got to sleep after a few hours. I'll try to taper my dose again tonight.

I have a theory that the side effects are exacerbated by the supplements due to the displacement of catecholamines (same action as antidepressant toxicity from tyramine-rich foods). This is also consistent with mild food reactions I've been having.

On the positive side, I should be able to resume taking the supplements once I'm off the trazodone.