16 replies to this topic

[REGIMEN]

I'm considering the addition of a new racetam to my regimen after taking aniracetam for about 4 months.

I've heard of slight differences between piracetam, aniracetam, oxiracetam, and pramiracetam (nefiracetam, no thanks) and would like to know of your experience if you have tried more than one of these or any other I haven't listed.

Just list any noticed perceptual effects had while taking each racetam (solely or in combination), if you feel the price justifies the use, or any other related thoughts.

As far as I can tell there isn't any single topic on here that deals with this so all the better for future reference.[thumb]

[jack21]

I have used piracetam primarily, rarely supplementing with aniracetam when my curiosity compelled me to. I consider piracetam to be well worth its relatively modest price and will continue to use it as the keystone of my nootropic regimen. The effects of piracetam alone are subtle and slow to manifest, but they are appreciable. After being on piracetam continuously for four months, I have noticed an improvement in mood, an increase in verbal fluency (though my verbal fluency was always sufficient prior to supplementation), increased focus and attention, and generally clearer thinking. Subjectively, piracetam has made cogitation a more pleasant activity and has made consciousness less of a burden. When I added an equivalent dose of aniracetam to my regular daily intake, the synergy it and piracetam effect was noticeable, as was my subjective perception of being under the influence of psychotropic substances. Both focus and the duration of attention were increased. These were the most noticeable consequences, for me. It has been my experience that aniracetam requires more shopping around than piracetam when searching for the best deal. Additionally, it seems that more nootropic suppliers carry piracetam than aniracetam, which has resulted in generally stable price for piracetam. So you should have little problem if you choose to buy piracetam.

[lemon]

My personal opinion is piracetam is better because it is water soluable. I get spotty results with aniracetam. I feel it's because it requires fats to be present in the stomach for absorbtion. Therefore you never really get consistent results with it. Piracetam, on the other hand, is always absorbed into the blood stream.

Flip side of this coin is that water soluable nutrients are flushed out of the body quicker than fat soluable ones... ergo the more frequent dosing required.

[jeromewilson]

Good question Liplex!

I've tried piracetam + aniracetam and on one occasion (haven't tried it very often) that had a very noticable effect on me (240mg piracetam + 500mg aniracetam). Major acetylcholine spike for a while (about 45 mins) - serious 'lock on' focus to the point of being uncomfortable. Tried piracetam + oxiracetam today (800mg piracetam + 500mg oxiracetam) - not really noticable so I think I'll experiment with oxi- and ani- alone at higher doses.

I'm quite prone to anxiety, which really screws with the beneficial effects of the -racetams, I need to find something that works nicely in combination to take the edge off. If anyone has any suggestions...

I'd like to hear from someone who's tried pramiracetam, I like the sound of it, though I could do without the slim chance of 'urinary or fecal incontinence'. That would ruin my day

Sorry I can't give a better quantified / described experience. You may have seen the following post by LifeMirage about oxiracetam...

http://www.imminst.o...976

[jeromewilson]

Flip side of this coin is that water soluable nutrients are flushed out of the body quicker than fat soluable ones... ergo the more frequent dosing required.

You'd think so wouldn't you but I've just read an article on 1Fast400 that says this about Aniracetam:

In rats, peak plasma levels of aniracetam are reached 20-30 minutes after oral administration, and the half-life is 1.7-2.1 hours [30]. In humans, the highest blood levels of the metabolites are reached two hours after administration, and this coincides with the largest changes in the EEG [32-33]. Plasma levels of the metabolites reach baseline within 6 hours, although the half-life and AUC are both significantly increased in the elderly [32]. It has been suggested that one of the reasons aniracetam is not more widely used is because it is so short-acting.

...

Because of the short duration of activity, it would be ideal to take aniracetam multiple times during the day.

http://www.1fast400....Aniracetam.html

Agree about the variable results with aniracetam.

[lemon]

"Rats" ?

Z Geburtshilfe Perinatol. 1977 Jun;181(3):199-205. Related Articles, Links 


[Pharmacokinetic of piracetam during labour influence to acid-base-status in maternal and fetal blood (author's transl)]

[Article in German]

Cornely M, Henkel E, Kunzel W, Zimmermann P.


PIRACETAM concentrations in fetal and maternal blood were measured during the first and second stage of labor and the elimination in maternal and fetal blood was studied. Fetal heart-rate, pH- and base-excess of the maternal and fetal blood were investigated to evaluate the influence of PIRACETAM on the acid-base-status of mother and child. PIRACETAM was administered intravenously to 43 patients in a dosage 2 g, 4 g and 6 g. The concentration in the maternal and fetal plasma was measured by gaschromatography. Before and after the injection of PIRACETAM and at delivery, blood was sampled from the mother's earlobe and the umbilical artery and vein, respectively. The results were compared with a control group. There was an exponential fall of PIRACETAM concentration in maternal and fetal blood. Maternal and fetal elimination half-life of PIRACETAM was about 112-98 minutes and 200 minutes, respectively. A fairly good correlation between the concentration of PIRACETAM in maternal and fetal blood was found. The fetal PIRACETAM concentration was about 50% below the maternal values. Fetal heart-rate, maternal and fetal pH- and base-excess-values were not significantly altered following PIRACETAM infusion. It may be concluded, that there exists a transfer of PIRACETAM across the placental barrier. However, the cytoprotective effect of PIRACETAM, as described in animal observations and by investigations in human, could not be verified by the methods and technology used in this study.

PMID: 18848 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

[jeromewilson]

Oh yeah, I've got my pet rat on an aniracetam drip, and he's sharp as a tack. I tried to persuade him to do a maze followed by a swim test today but he just ignored me and carried on watching Open University. Smart ass rodent.

[REGIMEN]

Is there any benefit to taking Pir-, Ani-, AND Oxi- as is LifeMirage's practice? (you there LM?)
Couldn't we just bypass piracetam and go with Ani- and Oxi- ?? I can't be spending on all three and it seems like Oxi- may be a more cost and effect efficient choice.

Would I be missing out on anything if I skipped Pir- and added on Oxi- to my Ani- intake ?

[scottl]

FWIW:

Didn't notice anything with piracetam. I'll try again after starting....pregnenolone (sp?) see recent thread.

A number of people (search avant) report ani making them spacey. NOT what I want and it will be the last I try if I do try it.

Pram: as reported around the net (and here--see previous threads) it does increase....motivation is the closest word although that may not give you the exact shade of what is going on. Bottom line was that for a number of days after taking it....more stuff got done. This wore off after...4-5 days so I was cycling it for a while e.g. sun evening through thursday.

EDIT: I was using a high (read expensive) dose of 1200 mg/day. Not sure if you need that much.

FYI: I later gave this up for glucophase (the designer supp product not the pharmaceutical) and avant's heat...wow the combo is great (see raves on avant)...someone compared the combo to adderal... I think. Whatever, stuff also got done well with that combo.

[REGIMEN]

I felt spacey when I first started taking Ani-. After a couple of tries at starting it up it finally took.

For some reason I feel Fishoil is the culprit. For some reason I don't do well on fishoil (NOWFoods SuperEPA and some grocery store brand...same effect on each-->). When taking it my brain and vision feel as if they were a jelly-stressball being rolled around between someone's palms and I can't focus or think straight or on my toes and this lasted for nearly 3-5 hours each two cap dose. This seriously diminishes the efficacy of the other items I take and IMHO the causality is based in the premise that someone mentioned here in Nootropics or in Supplements about Fishoil reducing erractic neuron firing associated with ADD and "creative thought"...or something like that. [Look at me, I'm a neuroscientist, guys!]

So, it may be the rainbow-plumed Quetzalcoatl-esque spirit of the drug is being bound in the restrictive straightjacket of the evil whitebread corporate industrial villain's Fishoil when the magical bird of Anirahuasca just wants to fly free through your synaptic jungle, man, and shower Knowledge and Joy on all the dendritic animals of your Imagination... Tell that to those buff dudes over at the AvantForums, I think that will get them right with Ani-. [thumb]

Glucophase and HEAT sounds like a winning combination; I could definitely use that effect for revving up my momentum to keep up this fall when I go back to school after two years away. Thanks for the headsup on that *scottl*.

[scottl]

If you have had problems with fish oil you need to take another brand. Fish oil will do more for your longevity and long term health then any nootropic.

The comment:

"IMHO the causality is based in the premise that someone mentioned here in Nootropics or in Supplements about Fishoil reducing erractic neuron firing associated with ADD and "creative thought"...or something like that."

Was not backed up by science and until it is...I'll stick to my fish oil.

[REGIMEN]

Thus my light mood...

[REGIMEN]

...and primer of "IMHO"...

[REGIMEN]

and ain't no "science" gonna tell me I if I felt something or not. three months of the stuff was experience enough.

I really would have expected those two brands to be of decent enough quality.
Both have completely different EPA:DHA ratios and were bought in brightly lit, recently dusted, and reputable establishments. Must I resort to skepticism?

[scottl]

Liplex,

Anything can do anything. I sent a diabetic friend some pyridoximine and he sent it back saying it raised his bood sugar. It is just the health benefits of fish oil are significant.

What were the two brands?

[LifeMirage]

I sent a diabetic friend some pyridoximine and he sent it back saying it raised his bood sugar.

Thats not possible. Whatever caused the increase it was not the pyridoxamine.

[LifeMirage]

Is there any benefit to taking Pir-, Ani-, AND Oxi- as is LifeMirage's practice? (you there LM?)
Couldn't we just bypass piracetam and go with Ani- and Oxi- ?? I can't be spending on all three and it seems like Oxi- may be a more cost and effect efficient choice.

Would I be missing out on anything if I skipped Pir- and added on Oxi- to my Ani- intake ?

I believe there is a benefit in combining the water & fat soluble racetams. As far as which ones I mostly take the Piracetam due to the fact that most of the studies and effects are well known. You can assume that oxiracetam shares many of the effects but this that thoroughly evaluated.

If you have the money I would take Oxiracetam and Aniracetam.

Pramiracetam is not worth the price in my opinion. 3 Racetams are more than enough to try and get an effect.