Mentally disturbed woman potentially tries to kill herself with LO. Vital signs never changed, she felt ill, threw up once, and all was resolved after some fluids.
It doesn't matter why she took it. She took it and got sick. People shouldn't act like it's as safe as mothers milk, because it isn't. Not for everyone. Looks like it didn't work out so well for Guardian.
I don't think any real claims were made that it was "safe as mother's milk," more that it is safer (at the dosages required) than high doses of Lithium Carbonate.
Mentally disturbed woman potentially tries to kill herself with LO. Vital signs never changed, she felt ill, threw up once, and all was resolved after some fluids.
It doesn't matter why she took it. She took it and got sick. People shouldn't act like it's as safe as mothers milk, because it isn't. Not for everyone. Looks like it didn't work out so well for Guardian.
I don't have a horse in this race but your bias here against LO is remarkable. This so-called "toxicity" amounted to "nausea" after a deliberate overdose. Then you toss in Guardian's anecdotal report which - while I sympathize with him - amounts to "a report on the internet." We all know every single supp discussed on here has somebody claiming it irrevocably changed them. Meanwhile you've handily ignored the journal link I posted in which true toxicity was experienced by a woman taking a therapeutic dose of Lithium carbonate.
I will continue to take 2.5mg LO on a weekly basis as a trace-mineral supplement.
Hmm. I take three and a half times as much LO as you do. Is that indicative of my "bias"? As blood pointed out, trying to get to the truth is not bias. It's science. I don't want this forum to turn into a place where people are handing out medical advice on the basis of "user reviews from shopping sites" (LOL!). Lithium is well known to have a poor therapeutic index. That means that the ratio between the therapeutic dose and the toxic dose is not very large. The fact that toxicity was observed at 900-1200mg is hardly surprising. Seeing toxicity or side effects from LO at much lower doses should tell you that it's not something you can pop like candy. I felt like the drug was being pimped here, and a little balance was needed.
It is important to look at both scientific research and anecdotal user data. That is my point. If you can't understand that, then you will always be behind the curve. Also, you look at those things to kinda gauge safety and effectiveness (both long-term and short-term) to see if it makes sense to try out a new substance. But at the end of the day the data point that matters most (as far as effectiveness of the substance on you) is you. If it works for you where it works for no one else, then all the scientific and anecdotal mumbo jumbo you read that says it won't work means nothing. Vice versa if something that's been proven to work and that works for everyone doesn't work for you.
There are no claims that Lithium Orotate isn't without side-effects, just that it's probably better than the carbonate version. The main side-effects I read about with Lithium Orotate are brain fog and lethargy near the beginning of taking it, and that's usually from taking too much. And also bad skin. Many people take half a pill (of the 4.8mg elemental) a day (5 days a week) for anti-aging/anti-anxiety/brain protection/etc effects without any problems.
You talk about datapoints and strongly imply the stupidity of looking at anecdotal user data in determining the efficacy of a substance, and yet you'd like to throw Guardian's single datapoint (very saddening the effect it had on him/her) in as though that makes the point you're making the irrefutable truth. Guardian probably took too high a dosage of Lithium.
I think the only real point you have is that Lithium Orotate's dosage doesn't have to be very high for it to work well, and I think that's the idea being presented here. Some people messing around with the possibly toxic dosages of Lithium Carbonate could end up taking little more than one of the Lithium Orotate pills to achieve the same effect without the side-effects they suffer on Lithium Carbonate, and without having to constantly monitor their vitals with bloodwork.
Looking at clinical studies alone is no way to get to the truth, isn't the only way to get to the truth, and is definitely no quick way to get to the truth. Many of these substances haven't been formally studied effectively, so it's up to the community to get things moving. Lithium Orotate has been studied and used enough to the point where it's clear that it can be effective and safer for those Bipolar sufferers who respond positively to it (at the right dosage).
In my opinion, you are hiding your BS behind claims that you are about the truth and science. Typical spin to dampen your refuted point and to distract from what you were really trying to do.
I am about truth and science, and this is how I go about finding it.
I don't suffer from Bipolar disorder, but I take half a tablet per day (5 days a week) for nootropic benefit. It especially goes well with Pramiracetam. Obviously, if you don't have bipolar disorder, then you shouldn't be taking that many (1-3) of the damn pills.
I think it's 0.5-1mg/liter in mineral water.
This is strictly a guess from you isn't it? There are so many sources of mineral water that it has to widely vary. Hell, I imagine it varies some even from the same source .....
No, I read it somewhere. I just can't remember where.
And for the lazy person that downvoted me because they can't do a simple google search, here are some sites that give information on the concentration of lithium in mineral water:
http://www.lenntech....m-and-water.htmhttp://jama.jamanetw...rticleid=352038I'm rarely on the offensive, mostly the defensive, so I don't have to go out of my way to prove anything. If you don't want to listen to me, then that's fine. But more important than listening or not listening to me is choosing wisely who you listen to, and in this thread those saying Lithium Orotate doesn't work, or those saying that a massive dosage is needed are probably not the ones you want to be listening to. At the dosage (is it 1-2 pills now?) required Lithium Orotate is fairly safe, so you can always try it out (Bipolar people) to see if it works for you. If it doesn't, then you'll know fairly quickly and not a hair will be lost from your head. Also, I still recommend trying resveratrol in addition to whatever you are taking to help ease some of your problems, as many sufferers have reported luck with that.
Edited by Joel, 26 November 2013 - 06:54 PM.