59 replies to this topic

[D424friday]

Thanks for taking the time to reply furniture.

I will write a more detailed post when I have the time, but just to update, I have completely fixed the problem using Selegiline and Aniracetam, I only needed to take them a few times as well. Hopefully that information helps someone, I have quite a few PMs from people having similar experiences after using d aspartic acid.

 

Here are some studies that led me to try Selegiline and Aniracteam to reverse the problem:

http://www.jneurosci...4/3200.full.pdf    -     Excitotoxic Activation of the NMDA Receptor Results in Inhibition  of Calcium/CaImodulin Kinase II Activity in Cultured Hippocampal  Neurons

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/18991869         -      Methamphetamine changes NMDA and AMPA glutamate receptor subunit levels in the rat striatum and frontal cortex.

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/12498910         -      Protective effects of selegiline and desmethylselegiline against N-methyl-D-aspartate-induced rat retinal damage.    -     

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/17651730         -      Deprenyl treatment attenuates long-term pre- and post-synaptic changes evoked by chronic methamphetamine.    -    

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/14628188         -      Selegiline reduces N-methyl-D-aspartic acid induced perturbation of neurotransmission but it leaves NMDA receptor dependent long-term potentiation intact in the hippocampus  

     

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/22670472         -      Effect of L-deprenyl treatment on electrical activity, Na+, K+ ATPase, and protein kinase C activities in hippocampal subfields (CA1 and CA3) of aged rat brain.       

 

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/11918291         -     Aniracetam improves contextual fear conditioning and increases hippocampal gamma-PKC activation in DBA/2J mice.

 http://www.sciencedi...01429999500047O               -        N-methyl-d-aspartate neurotoxicity in hippocampal slices: protection by aniracetam    

http://www.sciencedi...169328X0100331X   -   The aniracetam metabolite 2-pyrrolidinone induces a long-term enhancement in AMPA receptor responses via a CaMKII pathway

 

 

Edited by D424friday, 30 August 2014 - 09:24 AM.

[Alex Gray]

Hi D424friday,

 

My name is Alex, I am 21 and I also supplemented D-aspartic acid almost 2 years ago (about 1 year and 8 months) and I too have experienced and am still experiencing similar symptoms to yourself throughout these past years.  Initially the Brain fog and the unreal/ drunk effect were the worst effects as I could barely think, form a coherent sentence aswell as the tiredness and sluggishness I would feel throughout most of the day.  I also developed tinnitus after taking d aspartic acid.  Most of these symptoms have subsided/lessened to the point were I am about 90% back to normal although I still have persistent brain fog/ tiredness after eating which usually lasts for about 30 mins- 1 hour after a meal (meditation and lying down help with this).  The most useful supplements I have taken have been vitamin d, fish oil, magnesium and zinc, with zinc helping with a lot of my symptoms.  Initially I thought I had become zinc deficient but after about 3 weeks-1 month of taking zinc picolinate I began to develop symptoms of zinc toxicity (nausea, rashes, problems with prostate) so I take zinc on and off now at much lower doses usually with a copper supplement aswell. I still feel that zinc is helping with my symptoms aswell as the other supplements I take.  The past 2 years have been the worst of my life, living in a hazy unreal fog has caused me to drop out of uni and I have no drive to get a job/ move on with my life as these symptoms are constantly with me, I feel I don't really want to communicate with people and constantly shut myself off from the outside world. I am happy the symptoms are slowly subsiding and I am getting back to feeling like myself and it is concerting to see that other people have been through these symptoms and have come out the other side, such as yourself.  I only took d aspartic acid for 3 days and I could not have imagined the damage it has had on my mental and physical health aswell as my life in general.  Initially I attributed what was happening to me to different outside factors but from seeing posts from yourself and other people having negative side effects from d aspartic acid, I can see clearly what the cause has been.  I have a few questions for you and if you could answer any of them I would be really grateful:

 

1. Did you take the Selegiline and Aniracetam in conjunction with the other supplements you were taking and how much did the initial supplements you were taking help you?

 

2. Did you too have any brain fog/ side effects after eating food? I am thinking the brain fog after food is related to blood glucose/ adrenals.

 

3.  Are you completely back to normal now or do you still have any side effects, however minor?

 

4. Have you had any further testing done to see if your hormones improved after taking Selegiline and Aniracetam?

 

Sorry for the slew of questions, it is just giving me hope to see someone who has come out the other end of this process and who has some advice on this matter.  Any further/ additional info you could provide me with would be most appreciated.

 

Alex

[erraticpattern]

Wow.

This all seems remarkably similar to what I've been experiencing after using pregnenolone and DHEA for a month. I even came to the same conclusion as to the mechanism by which pregnenolone and DHEA screwed me up.

 

D424Friday, please post more info. What was the regimen you used of selegiline and aniracetam to achieve recovery? Are you still recovered?

Edited by erraticpattern, 08 September 2014 - 10:44 PM.

[erraticpattern]

D424riday, I can see from your profile activity that you've been active on the forums as recently as today.

Can you please respond to the above questions?

[medievil]

Glutaminergics should always be combined with gabaergic compounds.

[medievil]

Thanks for taking the time to reply furniture.
I will write a more detailed post when I have the time, but just to update, I have completely fixed the problem using Selegiline and Aniracetam, I only needed to take them a few times as well. Hopefully that information helps someone, I have quite a few PMs from people having similar experiences after using d aspartic acid.

Here are some studies that led me to try Selegiline and Aniracteam to reverse the problem:

http://www.jneurosci...4/3200.full.pdf - Excitotoxic Activation of the NMDA Receptor Results in Inhibition of Calcium/CaImodulin Kinase II Activity in Cultured Hippocampal Neurons
http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/18991869 - Methamphetamine changes NMDA and AMPA glutamate receptor subunit levels in the rat striatum and frontal cortex.
http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/12498910 - Protective effects of selegiline and desmethylselegiline against N-methyl-D-aspartate-induced rat retinal damage. -
http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/17651730 - Deprenyl treatment attenuates long-term pre- and post-synaptic changes evoked by chronic methamphetamine. -
http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/14628188 - Selegiline reduces N-methyl-D-aspartic acid induced perturbation of neurotransmission but it leaves NMDA receptor dependent long-term potentiation intact in the hippocampus

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/22670472 - Effect of L-deprenyl treatment on electrical activity, Na+, K+ ATPase, and protein kinase C activities in hippocampal subfields (CA1 and CA3) of aged rat brain.

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/11918291 - Aniracetam improves contextual fear conditioning and increases hippocampal gamma-PKC activation in DBA/2J mice.
http://www.sciencedi...01429999500047O - N-methyl-d-aspartate neurotoxicity in hippocampal slices: protection by aniracetam
http://www.sciencedi...169328X0100331X - The aniracetam metabolite 2-pyrrolidinone induces a long-term enhancement in AMPA receptor responses via a CaMKII pathway

Selegiline cannot be trusted and I believe it can be dangerous, depending on the dose it either extends or lowers the lifespan of rodents, on the wrong end of the dose curve we got negative effects, which may be the opposite of the neuroprotective things it does on the correct side, it's completely unclear what dose in humans is on the correct side.

[D424friday]

Hi D424friday,

 

My name is Alex, I am 21 and I also supplemented D-aspartic acid almost 2 years ago (about 1 year and 8 months) and I too have experienced and am still experiencing similar symptoms to yourself throughout these past years.  Initially the Brain fog and the unreal/ drunk effect were the worst effects as I could barely think, form a coherent sentence aswell as the tiredness and sluggishness I would feel throughout most of the day.  I also developed tinnitus after taking d aspartic acid.  Most of these symptoms have subsided/lessened to the point were I am about 90% back to normal although I still have persistent brain fog/ tiredness after eating which usually lasts for about 30 mins- 1 hour after a meal (meditation and lying down help with this).  The most useful supplements I have taken have been vitamin d, fish oil, magnesium and zinc, with zinc helping with a lot of my symptoms.  Initially I thought I had become zinc deficient but after about 3 weeks-1 month of taking zinc picolinate I began to develop symptoms of zinc toxicity (nausea, rashes, problems with prostate) so I take zinc on and off now at much lower doses usually with a copper supplement aswell. I still feel that zinc is helping with my symptoms aswell as the other supplements I take.  The past 2 years have been the worst of my life, living in a hazy unreal fog has caused me to drop out of uni and I have no drive to get a job/ move on with my life as these symptoms are constantly with me, I feel I don't really want to communicate with people and constantly shut myself off from the outside world. I am happy the symptoms are slowly subsiding and I am getting back to feeling like myself and it is concerting to see that other people have been through these symptoms and have come out the other side, such as yourself.  I only took d aspartic acid for 3 days and I could not have imagined the damage it has had on my mental and physical health aswell as my life in general.  Initially I attributed what was happening to me to different outside factors but from seeing posts from yourself and other people having negative side effects from d aspartic acid, I can see clearly what the cause has been.  I have a few questions for you and if you could answer any of them I would be really grateful:

 

1. Did you take the Selegiline and Aniracetam in conjunction with the other supplements you were taking and how much did the initial supplements you were taking help you?

 

2. Did you too have any brain fog/ side effects after eating food? I am thinking the brain fog after food is related to blood glucose/ adrenals.

 

3.  Are you completely back to normal now or do you still have any side effects, however minor?

 

4. Have you had any further testing done to see if your hormones improved after taking Selegiline and Aniracetam?

 

Sorry for the slew of questions, it is just giving me hope to see someone who has come out the other end of this process and who has some advice on this matter.  Any further/ additional info you could provide me with would be most appreciated.

 

Alex

 

 

Wow.

This all seems remarkably similar to what I've been experiencing after using pregnenolone and DHEA for a month. I even came to the same conclusion as to the mechanism by which pregnenolone and DHEA screwed me up.

 

D424Friday, please post more info. What was the regimen you used of selegiline and aniracetam to achieve recovery? Are you still recovered?

 

 

D424riday, I can see from your profile activity that you've been active on the forums as recently as today.

Can you please respond to the above questions?

 

Hi Alex and ErraticPattern,

 

Apologies, I am quite ill at the moment (unrelated to D-Aspartic Acid) so I didn't have the energy to read the replies or do a proper response.

 

I may get blood tests done soon, and see if the DR. has my results logged from before to compare. But at the moment I have no idea what they were like at the time, I was just told they were "fine".

 

All I did was take Aniracetam and Selegiline together with food for a couple of days (both are fat soluble) and at about day 3/4 I felt completely back to normal. I stopped taking them to see the difference and have not needed to use them since. 

 

I felt an almost immediate relief of all symptoms(within 30 minutes) of taking each. But bare in mind, I am quite sensitive to any supplements (as I've come to find out) so it could be that if d aspartic acid took a few weeks for its negative effects to show for you, it could take a few weeks for Aniracetam and Selegiline to reverse the effects.

 

I made sure to take no other supplements with them so I could determine if they were working more accurately, they were pretty much my last hope after trying everything under the sun.

 

I used around 250mg-500mg of Aniracetam and 2.5mg-5mg of Selegline

 

I don't think it would make much of a difference if you took them separately though, from the research I found their nmda excitoxicity damage reversal effects seem to be via different mechanisms. Although I believe both need to be taken to reverse the damage from "different angles"

 

I am now taking Krill oil (superior source of omega 3 in my opinion) and acetyl l carnitine/Alpha liplic acid, I imagine the stress that occurred during that time probably caused Brain atrophy to some degree so just doing a bit of general Brain repair.

 

I feel completely back to normal now, no lingering side effects

Edited by D424friday, 13 September 2014 - 11:34 PM.

[D424friday]

Also, NAC, Fish Oil, uridine, tianeptine and magnesium all helped. But did not reverse any of the problems, once I stopped taking them the symptoms all came back, these things improved symptoms around 50-70%. They only acted as a band aid though by effecting things further downstream, which in this case was camk II activation and glutamate antagonism.

 

 

Aniracetam and Selegiline seem to have gotten to the "root cause" of the problem.

Edited by D424friday, 13 September 2014 - 11:27 PM.

[medievil]

Aniracetam and Selegiline seem to have gotten to the "root cause" of the problem.

That would indicate it's not true neurotoxic damage.

[D424friday]

 

Aniracetam and Selegiline seem to have gotten to the "root cause" of the problem.

That would indicate it's not true neurotoxic damage.

 

Perhaps you're correct, I have absolutely no medical/scientific experience/training. And do not fully understand these terms. Would appreciate any corrections to help me understand what actually happened. Just trying to piece it all together.

All I know is Aniracetam and Selegiline have worked. 

 

Regarding your post about Selegiline being dangerous (or at least the long term effects being unknown)

I would tend to agree, and would be hesitant to use it for more than a couple of months at a time. But for this purpose I do not see too big of a problem, unless using very high dosages and dipping into MAO-A Inhibition.

At the very least the potential benefits outweigh the potential risks in this situation, IMO.

Edited by D424friday, 13 September 2014 - 11:44 PM.

[medievil]

Antiglutaminergics upregulates dopamine and 5ht2a, da does the opposite, sele increases dopamine while Aniracetam activates 5ht2a.

Receptor down regulation could make sense, I hypotheses that several weeks of memantine may be your long term cure.

[D424friday]

Antiglutaminergics upregulates dopamine and 5ht2a, da does the opposite, sele increases dopamine while Aniracetam activates 5ht2a.

Receptor down regulation could make sense, I hypotheses that several weeks of memantine may be your long term cure.

Surprised I've forgotten to mention it, I used Memantine for many months at varying dosages and it definitelely helped, that and Tianeptine gave me the most symptom improvement, but as with the other supplements above, as soon as I stopped taking it, the symptoms all came back.

 

I suspect the answer as to why Selegiline and Aniracetam have permanently helped is in the studies listed above.

 

In particular, these two:

http://www.sciencedi...169328X0100331X   -   

The aniracetam metabolite 2-pyrrolidinone induces a long-term enhancement in AMPA receptor responses via a CaMKII pathway

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/17651730  -

Deprenyl treatment attenuates long-term pre- and post-synaptic changes evoked by chronic methamphetamine

Edited by D424friday, 14 September 2014 - 12:03 AM.

[Alex Gray]

Dear D424friday,

 

Thanks so much for the reply man, I have been feeling a bit under the weather this past week as well.  It is good to see that mentally you are back to 100%, would you say the physical symptoms you experienced have also subsided/ returned to normal? Has your energy returned to a normal state after taking Selegiline and Anarecitam or did your physical symptoms return to normal prior to this?  I will look into both Anarecitam and Selegiline further and decide how/ if I will take them.  You also said you took Piracetam initially which did not help you symptoms but Anarecitam did, did you take them quite close together to notice the differing effects or do you think the Selegiline had a greater effect on your recovery.  Also completely unrelated, did you still go to the gym during the period in which you were experiencing the symptoms/ do you still go now?  and have you managed to get you life back on track in terms of career/ personal life.  This past year I have pretty much had my life on halt, but I have kept up with the gym and made some good gains, which has pretty much kept me sain, as well as getting to do some work experience recently.  Sorry to open up old wounds, and I'm sure there will be more questions I can bombard you with further down the line hehe, thank you again for your time and patience in answering these questions.

   

[D424friday]

Dear D424friday,

 

Thanks so much for the reply man, I have been feeling a bit under the weather this past week as well.  It is good to see that mentally you are back to 100%, would you say the physical symptoms you experienced have also subsided/ returned to normal? Has your energy returned to a normal state after taking Selegiline and Anarecitam or did your physical symptoms return to normal prior to this?  I will look into both Anarecitam and Selegiline further and decide how/ if I will take them.  You also said you took Piracetam initially which did not help you symptoms but Anarecitam did, did you take them quite close together to notice the differing effects or do you think the Selegiline had a greater effect on your recovery.  Also completely unrelated, did you still go to the gym during the period in which you were experiencing the symptoms/ do you still go now?  and have you managed to get you life back on track in terms of career/ personal life.  This past year I have pretty much had my life on halt, but I have kept up with the gym and made some good gains, which has pretty much kept me sain, as well as getting to do some work experience recently.  Sorry to open up old wounds, and I'm sure there will be more questions I can bombard you with further down the line hehe, thank you again for your time and patience in answering these questions.

No worries, ye I feel physically back to normal as well. None of my symptoms returned to normal before taking Aniracetam and Selegiline, unless I was taking the supplements I listed above, but once i stopped taking them all the symptoms came back. 

 

I took Piracetam months away from Aniracetam, to go further into my experience with it (Piracetam). When I took it, I actually felt extremely Euphoric for the first couple of hours, and then crashed hard with mind numbing anxiety for days afterwards. I think I worked out that the euphoria was from the camkii activation/AMPA positive modulation, and then the anxiety crash coming from nmda receptor upregulation and Piracteam being a glutamate agonist made that effect even worse.

 

The euphoria from the Piracetam was probably the first time in a year I had felt any sort of "pleasure" almost as if I had no dopamine in my brain (to put it very unscientifically) 

That's what lead me to looking into ampa/camkii activation.

 

Other glutamate agonists had a similar anxiogenic effect on me, whilst glutamate antagonists had an anxiolytic effect.

Same thing with other camkii activators // ampa positive modulators (uridine,fish oil, Tianeptine) I felt like my brain could experience pleasure again.

 

No idea which had the greater effect on recovery as I took them at the same time.

 

I made attempts to get back into the gym whilst still having symptoms, but the anxiety and fatigue was too much, it felt like my brain was constantly on the verge of a seizure, was hard to even walk straight at some points. I basically did virtually nothing for close to 2 years, occasionally went out with friends when I was feeling a bit better from taking stuff like tianeptine/uridine/fish oil etc.

 

That's good that you're able to to go to the gym and do a bit of work experience.

 

My life was getting back on track until a few months ago, now I'm ill again with something unrelated to d aspartic acid. Frustrating obviously but it's not going to be forever, and it could be worse.

 

Feel free to PM me for my skype, would be quicker to talk than on here.

[Alex Gray]

Hey man thanks for the reply, sorry to hear that your ill, sure you'll get better soon.  I will start taking NAC, cabergoline, Niacin, vitamin c and uridine and add them to the current supplements I am taking and see how I feel on them.  I will also visit the doctor in the next few weeks. I think taking aniracetam and selegline is somewhat of a last resort for me but if I feel like I am still not making significant improvements on the other supplements I may start taking them, I am just worried about some of the side-effects although I can see the benefits they have had on you .  I will also do some more research into supplements that work on similar pathways to reverse the effects of d-aspartic acid.  Its so strange how d-aspartic acid has had this effect on us and I wonder how many other people it has effected in similar ways.  Will send you a PM to ask you for your skype details. 

[FunkOdyssey]

 

One of the primary symptoms of low-NMDA activity is feeling like you have an overall lack of balance, not stimulated enough, lethargy, but yet anxious in a way as well. NMDA-hypoactivity AND hyperactivity can both contribute to Ahedonia, Dysphoria, dopamine dysregulation and other problems. Depersonalization and delirium is noted in some cases of excessive or underactive NMDA - with hypoactivity being more prominent and yielding more negative biochemical effects.

 

Another low NMDA symptom is feeling like you are out of place with reality, and feeling like people are reading your thoughts, this was also evident to me when I took agmatine supplements (which temporarily block NMDA currents) - thus yet ANOTHER great point is if you want the FULL benefits of DAA/NMDA - you need to make sure you aren't taking things that counteract it.

 

Overlooked NMDA-blockers are

-Ginkgo Biloba

-Agmatine Sulfate

-Possibly NAC* ; N-Acetyl-Cysteine.

-The Dementia drug "Memantine"

-Phenyl piracetam (but not other racetams)

-Opium chemicals.

-Kratom Leaf

 

Don't forget magnesium, zinc (http://www.ncbi.nlm..../pubmed/1695316), and surprisingly, vitamin C:

 

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/20390081

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/15882814

http://www.ncbi.nlm..../pubmed/1964838

 

I'm very sensitive to NMDA antagonism, which makes me lethargic, apathetic, depresses mood and libido.  Supplemental zinc, ascorbic acid, and bioavailable forms of magnesium like malate and glycinate have an awful effect on me.

 

Also, I felt the same weird sensations in the head, and head pressure, that many of you have described upon using DAA.  I stopped it after just a few days because it felt like it was beginning to do something very toxic, which was a shame, because initially I felt amazing on it.  I suspect the difference between people who experience negative effects from DAA and those who don't lies in the permeability of their BBB.  In those with leaky guts, the BBB tends to be leaky as well.

 

The permeability of the BBB can be tested with a "GABA challenge" (Dr. Datis Kharrazian was the originator of this test).  GABA is too large a molecule to pass a healthy BBB, and the majority of people who take oral GABA will feel absolutely nothing.  If you have any reaction to it, most commonly sedation, or occasionally paradoxical stimulation/anxiety, you've got a leaky BBB.

Edited by FunkOdyssey, 14 February 2015 - 04:42 AM.

[D424friday]

 

 

One of the primary symptoms of low-NMDA activity is feeling like you have an overall lack of balance, not stimulated enough, lethargy, but yet anxious in a way as well. NMDA-hypoactivity AND hyperactivity can both contribute to Ahedonia, Dysphoria, dopamine dysregulation and other problems. Depersonalization and delirium is noted in some cases of excessive or underactive NMDA - with hypoactivity being more prominent and yielding more negative biochemical effects.

 

Another low NMDA symptom is feeling like you are out of place with reality, and feeling like people are reading your thoughts, this was also evident to me when I took agmatine supplements (which temporarily block NMDA currents) - thus yet ANOTHER great point is if you want the FULL benefits of DAA/NMDA - you need to make sure you aren't taking things that counteract it.

 

Overlooked NMDA-blockers are

-Ginkgo Biloba

-Agmatine Sulfate

-Possibly NAC* ; N-Acetyl-Cysteine.

-The Dementia drug "Memantine"

-Phenyl piracetam (but not other racetams)

-Opium chemicals.

-Kratom Leaf

 

Don't forget magnesium, zinc (http://www.ncbi.nlm..../pubmed/1695316), and surprisingly, vitamin C:

 

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/20390081

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/15882814

http://www.ncbi.nlm..../pubmed/1964838

 

I'm very sensitive to NMDA antagonism, which makes me lethargic, apathetic, depresses mood and libido.  Supplemental zinc, ascorbic acid, and bioavailable forms of magnesium like malate and glycinate have an awful effect on me.

 

Also, I felt the same weird sensations in the head, and head pressure, that many of you have described upon using DAA.  I stopped it after just a few days because it felt like it was beginning to do something very toxic, which was a shame, because initially I felt amazing on it.  I suspect the difference between people who experience negative effects from DAA and those who don't lies in the permeability of their BBB.  In those with leaky guts, the BBB tends to be leaky as well.

 

The permeability of the BBB can be tested with a "GABA challenge" (Dr. Datis Kharrazian was the originator of this test).  GABA is too large a molecule to pass a healthy BBB, and the majority of people who take oral GABA will feel absolutely nothing.  If you have any reaction to it, most commonly sedation, or occasionally paradoxical stimulation/anxiety, you've got a leaky BBB.

 

Hi FunkOdyssey, 

I came to the same conclusion as to why it effected me so much, whereas others seem to be fine. I suspect I had a permeable BBB as well as a leaky gut.

I had antibiotics at birth, so I imagine that was a large factor in my BBB and gut barrier being weak.

 

I think the pressure in the head was due to high levels of prolactin.

Edited by D424friday, 14 February 2015 - 10:15 PM.

[Area-1255]

 

 

 

One of the primary symptoms of low-NMDA activity is feeling like you have an overall lack of balance, not stimulated enough, lethargy, but yet anxious in a way as well. NMDA-hypoactivity AND hyperactivity can both contribute to Ahedonia, Dysphoria, dopamine dysregulation and other problems. Depersonalization and delirium is noted in some cases of excessive or underactive NMDA - with hypoactivity being more prominent and yielding more negative biochemical effects.

 

Another low NMDA symptom is feeling like you are out of place with reality, and feeling like people are reading your thoughts, this was also evident to me when I took agmatine supplements (which temporarily block NMDA currents) - thus yet ANOTHER great point is if you want the FULL benefits of DAA/NMDA - you need to make sure you aren't taking things that counteract it.

 

Overlooked NMDA-blockers are

-Ginkgo Biloba

-Agmatine Sulfate

-Possibly NAC* ; N-Acetyl-Cysteine.

-The Dementia drug "Memantine"

-Phenyl piracetam (but not other racetams)

-Opium chemicals.

-Kratom Leaf

 

Don't forget magnesium, zinc (http://www.ncbi.nlm..../pubmed/1695316), and surprisingly, vitamin C:

 

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/20390081

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/15882814

http://www.ncbi.nlm..../pubmed/1964838

 

I'm very sensitive to NMDA antagonism, which makes me lethargic, apathetic, depresses mood and libido.  Supplemental zinc, ascorbic acid, and bioavailable forms of magnesium like malate and glycinate have an awful effect on me.

 

Also, I felt the same weird sensations in the head, and head pressure, that many of you have described upon using DAA.  I stopped it after just a few days because it felt like it was beginning to do something very toxic, which was a shame, because initially I felt amazing on it.  I suspect the difference between people who experience negative effects from DAA and those who don't lies in the permeability of their BBB.  In those with leaky guts, the BBB tends to be leaky as well.

 

The permeability of the BBB can be tested with a "GABA challenge" (Dr. Datis Kharrazian was the originator of this test).  GABA is too large a molecule to pass a healthy BBB, and the majority of people who take oral GABA will feel absolutely nothing.  If you have any reaction to it, most commonly sedation, or occasionally paradoxical stimulation/anxiety, you've got a leaky BBB.

 

Hi FunkOdyssey, 

I came to the same conclusion as to why it effected me so much, whereas others seem to be fine. I suspect I had a permeable BBB as well as a leaky gut.

I had antibiotics at birth, so I imagine that was a large factor in my BBB and gut barrier being weak.

 

I think the pressure in the head was due to high levels of prolactin.

 

You need to reduce prolactin then...

Or did you already?

[D424friday]

 

 

 

 

One of the primary symptoms of low-NMDA activity is feeling like you have an overall lack of balance, not stimulated enough, lethargy, but yet anxious in a way as well. NMDA-hypoactivity AND hyperactivity can both contribute to Ahedonia, Dysphoria, dopamine dysregulation and other problems. Depersonalization and delirium is noted in some cases of excessive or underactive NMDA - with hypoactivity being more prominent and yielding more negative biochemical effects.

 

Another low NMDA symptom is feeling like you are out of place with reality, and feeling like people are reading your thoughts, this was also evident to me when I took agmatine supplements (which temporarily block NMDA currents) - thus yet ANOTHER great point is if you want the FULL benefits of DAA/NMDA - you need to make sure you aren't taking things that counteract it.

 

Overlooked NMDA-blockers are

-Ginkgo Biloba

-Agmatine Sulfate

-Possibly NAC* ; N-Acetyl-Cysteine.

-The Dementia drug "Memantine"

-Phenyl piracetam (but not other racetams)

-Opium chemicals.

-Kratom Leaf

 

Don't forget magnesium, zinc (http://www.ncbi.nlm..../pubmed/1695316), and surprisingly, vitamin C:

 

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/20390081

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/15882814

http://www.ncbi.nlm..../pubmed/1964838

 

I'm very sensitive to NMDA antagonism, which makes me lethargic, apathetic, depresses mood and libido.  Supplemental zinc, ascorbic acid, and bioavailable forms of magnesium like malate and glycinate have an awful effect on me.

 

Also, I felt the same weird sensations in the head, and head pressure, that many of you have described upon using DAA.  I stopped it after just a few days because it felt like it was beginning to do something very toxic, which was a shame, because initially I felt amazing on it.  I suspect the difference between people who experience negative effects from DAA and those who don't lies in the permeability of their BBB.  In those with leaky guts, the BBB tends to be leaky as well.

 

The permeability of the BBB can be tested with a "GABA challenge" (Dr. Datis Kharrazian was the originator of this test).  GABA is too large a molecule to pass a healthy BBB, and the majority of people who take oral GABA will feel absolutely nothing.  If you have any reaction to it, most commonly sedation, or occasionally paradoxical stimulation/anxiety, you've got a leaky BBB.

 

Hi FunkOdyssey, 

I came to the same conclusion as to why it effected me so much, whereas others seem to be fine. I suspect I had a permeable BBB as well as a leaky gut.

I had antibiotics at birth, so I imagine that was a large factor in my BBB and gut barrier being weak.

 

I think the pressure in the head was due to high levels of prolactin.

 

You need to reduce prolactin then...

Or did you already?

 

Was fixed indirectly by Aniracetam and Selegiline

[zorba990]

I used 300grams over two months and it did absolutely nothing as far as I can tell.

[JeremyG]

Hey man thanks for the reply, sorry to hear that your ill, sure you'll get better soon.  I will start taking NAC, cabergoline, Niacin, vitamin c and uridine and add them to the current supplements I am taking and see how I feel on them.  I will also visit the doctor in the next few weeks. I think taking aniracetam and selegline is somewhat of a last resort for me but if I feel like I am still not making significant improvements on the other supplements I may start taking them, I am just worried about some of the side-effects although I can see the benefits they have had on you .  I will also do some more research into supplements that work on similar pathways to reverse the effects of d-aspartic acid.  Its so strange how d-aspartic acid has had this effect on us and I wonder how many other people it has effected in similar ways.  Will send you a PM to ask you for your skype details. 

 

Hey, Alex!  

 

Sorry to revive this old thread, but this is the best one I could find on the subject.

 

About 5 days ago I had a very bad experience with DAA after taking just 2 days - very similar symptoms.  Did you end up taking Selegiline and Aniracteam or did you feel better on your mix of NAC, cabergoline, Niacin, vitamin c and uridine?

 

How long did it take get back to normal OR are you feeling normal now?

 

Thank you!

[Caravaggio]

Yesterday I took about 3-4 g DAA for the first time in my life and about 1-2 hours later I had a brain fog that I didn't have for some time.

 

It was accompanied by a sore/stiff neck, later in the day it shifted from brainfog to a very sore neck (mercury moving from brain out to neck muscles?).

 

While I watched a movie I fell asleep, probably due to Melatonin rising in the dawn. When I woke up again I felt a lot better.

 

Melatonin is known to protect against neurotoxicity from mercury:

Drug Chem Toxicol. 2010 Apr;33(2):209-16. doi: 10.3109/01480540903349258.

Melatonin protection on mercury-exerted brain toxicity in the rat.

Rao MV, Purohit A, Patel T.

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/20307147

 

I know this brain fog exactly from many other supplements and I'm sure it's related to mercury.

 

The other supplements and the way they probably cause the brainfog are:

 

Cilantro - redistribution of the Hg in the brain

 

K-RALA (potassium salt of R-ALA) - redistribution of Hg in the brain

 

AChE inhibitors - decoupling of Hg that is bound to the cysteine in AChE

Mechanisms of cholinesterase inhibition by inorganic mercury

Manuela F. Frasco  Jacques‐Philippe Colletier  Martin Weik  Félix Carvalho  Lúcia Guilhermino Jure Stojan  Didier Fournier

First published: 12 March 2007

D. Fournier, IPBS‐UMR 5089, 205 Route de Narbonne, F‐31077 Toulouse, France

 

https://febs.onlinel...58.2007.05732.x

 

Forskolin - maybe someone else knows why it causes brain fog related to Hg?

 

Possibly because Forskolin raises cAMP while Hg lowers it.

In Vitr Mol Toxicol. 2000 Summer;13(2):137-44.

In vitro toxicity of mercury, cadmium, and arsenic to platelet aggregation: influence of adenylate cyclase and phosphodiesterase activity.

Kumar SV, Bhattacharya S.

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/11031324

 

Maybe the DAA even helped to detox mercury from my brain by increasing the permeability of the blood-brain-barrier:

Glutamate Induces Blood–Brain Barrier Permeability through Activation of N-Methyl-D-Aspartate Receptors

Kristiana Xhima, Danielle Weber-Adrian and Joseph Silburt

Journal of Neuroscience 7 December 2016, 36 (49) 12296-12298

 

http://www.jneurosci...ent/36/49/12296

 

Correct me if I'm wrong but NMDA and glutamate are exchangeable in this case as they both bind to the NMDAR (with the exception of NMDA binding only to it while glutamate binds to any glutamate receptor).

 

And it seems that DAA is converted to NMDA (having COMT SNPs and being considered and "overmethylator" seems to provide enough methyl donors).

 

I'm trying to detox for years but it seems the brain is the hardest part to detox.

 

So if my body is already totally clear of mercury peripherally and the DAA opens the blood-brain-barrier it could be beneficial to me.

 

The other way around if you have mercury in your body (say silver fillings in teeth) and you don't have mercury in the brain yet you could just poison yourself by taking DAA.

 

I'm curious if the guys here that have the same effect from DAA react the same way to the above mentioned supplements.

 

[jetmango]

Hi guys. 

 

Can JeremyG report if he is back to normal yet?

 

This morning I took HALF of one tablet of this supplement http://www.hpnutriti...n.ie/Olimp-DAA thank GOD I took only half so approx 800mg... and that I am in good health. Within 2 hours I started to sense 'pressure build up' in my head, like my veins were suddenly opening, rather unpleasant. Then it felt exactly like a STORM of glutamate over my brain...Then a hyper - stimulation of my nervous system, then it somewhat went down but felt mental exhaustion [like coming out from writing very stressful exams for a whole day] then felt a bit sleepy and socially awkward [i took it to boost my T] - then I found this topic. Immediately took double dose of gingko bilobae, korean ginseng, TMG , vit B , magnesium glycinate chelate  and some L-theanine.... I now feel a bit better, apart from slight headache [might be due to gingko relaxing blood vessels]

 

I am VERY sensitive to stuff, so I am glad I took such a small dosage and I can only hope I wont have any bad symptoms persisting, but I dont know.. some people here said they took it only for 2 days... its crazy as this is only an amino acid... 

 

Can anyone comment how they are doing ? I dont have access to any of the prescription meds mentiones [nor I want to stuff myself with them] I do have NAC and uridine at home, also melatonin. Does it make sense to take it at night? I want to have a good sleep too. 

 

 

[John250]

Wow I’m surprised some have such an effect with just the amino acid DAA. You must be super sensitive to Glutamate. I’d think avoiding glutamate and increasing gaba would probably be best for the super responders.

[jetmango]

this is a no-joke... I feel confused, like my mind was distracted, like 20% of it was somewhere else... takes longer to input passwords to websites from my memory [normally I do this on auto pilot] etc.... Jayzes.. I hope this will pass!!! I took a s*it load of supplements to counterbalance it... 

[jetmango]

would drinking caffeine help ? as caffeine is NMDA antagonist? or I am understanding this wrong [not a surprise right now]

[John250]

would drinking caffeine help ? as caffeine is NMDA antagonist? or I am understanding this wrong [not a surprise right now]

I’m thinking if you are supersensitive to glutamate you might want to avoid any stimulants. Maybe try focusing more on GABA with skullcap, Black cumin, Valerian and maybe Emoxypine

[jetmango]

No, you are incorrect. I am very healthy, live an active lifestyle [cycling 120km every week], and I don't have low T. 

 

[17.48 nmol/l when I was starting being an active cyclist in 2015] 

 

I am always baffled when someone answers like that- like its raining outside, you went out and got yourself wet but then someone says nah its not rain, you just got wet from your sweat.

 

No sir, with all due respect - it was DAA. I had not taken anything else, I know my body and I am very sensitive. I can tell it was this thing, its not my belief or thinking but a direct experience. There are enough reports in this very topic confirming similar actions.

>>> Maybe you have too much Sodium, or too much Glutamic Acid in your Diet (drink or Eat too much Swanson soup or Chicken Only Diet?). 

 

I dont eat shit foods and its hard to have too much sodium when youre a cyclist especially during summer ;] I don't eat Swanson soups [idk what that is]. I eat poultry in moderate amounts, as everyone. I eat lots of veggies and all healthy stuff. 

 

I can tolerate moderate amounts of caffeine but don't feel good as a regular drinker. I feel more normal today, took NAC before bed yesterday too. PEOPLE BE CAREFUL this can get really bad for you. It's not worth it.

 

 

 

[jetmango]

However! I definitely can't tolerate NMDA agrravating stuff too much... AND on top of that, I have very bad effects from choline [tachycardia, insomnia]... I thrive on GABA, dopamine, and serotonin. Also glycine is agreeing with me.

 

Thank God I feel normal today. Won't take it anymore, I was suprised because I always had good reactions to every amino I tried before.

Btw, want to boost T? Try neetle root. Blocks aromatase, safe alternative.

[JeremyG]

Hey, mangoa!

 

Sorry to hear about your woes.  My symptoms seem different than yours ... mine was major anxiety and lack of joy (depression?) that's still persisting 3 months later - my recovery feels like it's plateaued.

 

I was taking a workout supplement ("VINTAGE BLAST" https://www.amazon.c...uct/B00P6VQYJO)~ twice a week for Fed & March 2018. It has 2g DAA in it.  I was actually getting new maxes in the gym and felt great.  But in April 2018 I took 2g of "BulkSupplements Pure D-Aspartic Acid (DAA) Powder" (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00E7JO0D8/) on Saturday and Sunday and IMMEDIATELY hit a wall of anxiety I had never felt before - it was crazy.  

 

Now, I did have several stressors going on in my life at that time.  For example, I was not ready to move houses (job is uncertain) and that same weekend I got talked into looking at a house with my wife for a possible move.  I'm not a psychologist, so I do not know if things like that can cause a "mental breakdown" like what has lasted for the past 2-3 months - it was sure a coincidence it happened that same day.

 

I did not have the brain fog you mention.  I do know from lab testing that in March my Testosterone was <400 (but felt great hitting new maxes at gym), but June 29 it was HALF THAT - lowest I've even experienced - I have felt off since that April episode.  I have not had DAA since then.

 

I've always let pretty healthy lifestyle (food, sleep, workouts).  I'm at ideal weight and <20% body fat.  However, I'm going to work with my Dr. on the Testosterone in a couple weeks if not feeling back to normal.  He has a lot of contacts and also gave me a referral to a neurologist I may talk to about the DAA and exotoxicity mentioned in this forum.

 

Maybe it was psychological OR maybe that "BulkSupplements Pure D-Aspartic Acid (DAA) Powder" was tainted OR I just can't handle DAA directly.  It's definitely been a life-changing 3 months as it feels like dopamine and serotonin are still way lower than ever in my life before - I'm just 46.

 

If I find out more, I'll try to post here.

 

Jeremy