5 replies to this topic

[Paulus]

http://www.iherb.com...ggie-Caps/52954

good forms
low-dose (ish)
low E (as some have complained of their multi's in the past)
good dosages of D3 and K

[blood]

Good
- active forms of folate, B6
- doesn't contain excessive amounts of alpha tocopherol
- has some K2 (presumably MK4)

Bad
- contains forms of potentially neurotoxic metals (copper, manganese) of uncertain bioavailability. (Consumption of highly bioavailable copper and manganese in quite small doses has been implicated in accelerated cognitive decline, dementia, reduced IQ in children, etc).
- too much selenium? (200 mcg/day selenium is apparently enough to increase the risk of diabetes in those who already have "high" plasma levels of selenium)
- no lithium
- no K2 (MK7 appears to be the preferred form, unless you're willing to take pharmacological doses)
- my preference is for zinc picolinate (minor quibble)

Edited by blood, 23 December 2013 - 10:26 PM.

[PWAIN]

I'd still prefer to go with AOR multi basics which work out much cheaper.

[Paulus]

Good
- active forms of folate, B6
- doesn't contain excessive amounts of alpha tocopherol
- has some K2 (presumably MK4)

Bad
- contains forms of potentially neurotoxic metals (copper, manganese) of uncertain bioavailability. (Consumption of highly bioavailable copper and manganese in quite small doses has been implicated in accelerated cognitive decline, dementia, reduced IQ in children, etc).
- too much selenium? (200 mcg/day selenium is apparently enough to increase the risk of diabetes in those who already have "high" plasma levels of selenium)
- no lithium
- no K2 (MK7 appears to be the preferred form, unless you're willing to take pharmacological doses)
- my preference is for zinc picolinate (minor quibble)

So the chelated, more bioavailable forms of metals like copper and manganese are bad? What about something like copper glycinate?
Copper has been highlighted as a big no-no. However, any concerns with supplementing zinc without copper long-term?

[blood]

So the chelated, more bioavailable forms of metals like copper and manganese are bad? What about something like copper glycinate?

These are "open questions". The answer is unknown at this time.

The most bioavailable form of manganese is parenterally or intravenously delivered manganese (100% bioavailability). 2-3 mg/day of manganese delivered parenterally will produce a full blown, irreversible Parkinson's in a short amount of time (months, not years), with visible (on MRI scans) depositions of manganese in parts of the brain.

The least bioavailable form of manganese is the manganese in your food. It is poorly absorbed (absorption estimated to be well under 7%), so it's safe to eat food providing 2-10 or more mg/day. (The body appears to have mechanisms which allow it to adapt to the amount of manganese in our customary diet, up regulating or down-regulating manganese absorption accordingly).

Manganese dissolved in municipal water supplies has a bioavailability that lies somewhere between food-bound manganese and parenterally delivered manganese. Relatively small amounts of manganese - well under 1 mg/day - delivered through drinking water have been linked to adverse outcomes including *reduced* IQ in children and (in one study) elevated cancer risk.

How bioavailable exactly is manganese glycinate/ gluconate/ sulfate? Has anyone even bothered to investigate this in humans? I suspect that the common forms of supplemental manganese are more bioavailable than food-bound manganese, and therefore choose to avoid them.

Copper has been highlighted as a big no-no. However, any concerns with supplementing zinc without copper long-term?

If you're limiting yourself to 10-15 mg/day supplemental zinc, and eating a decent diet, then no, it's unlikely you will become deficient in copper with long term zinc supplementation.

Edited by blood, 23 December 2013 - 11:20 PM.

[petejones]

Good
- active forms of folate, B6
- doesn't contain excessive amounts of alpha tocopherol
- has some K2 (presumably MK4)

Bad
- contains forms of potentially neurotoxic metals (copper, manganese) of uncertain bioavailability. (Consumption of highly bioavailable copper and manganese in quite small doses has been implicated in accelerated cognitive decline, dementia, reduced IQ in children, etc).
- too much selenium? (200 mcg/day selenium is apparently enough to increase the risk of diabetes in those who already have "high" plasma levels of selenium)
- no lithium
- no K2 (MK7 appears to be the preferred form, unless you're willing to take pharmacological doses)
- my preference is for zinc picolinate (minor quibble)

Can someone actually back up that fear of manganese and copper (below RDI levels), or is he just a bit neurotic? Even Vimmortal has copper in it (not manganese). I know they're dangerous when overdosed, but...

The selenium dose is fine with 1 pill per day (as far as I know).
Lithium is only something people from this website would put in their multi (won't sell on a large scale right now).
The only thing i'm curious about is whether having every mineral be a glycinate chelate might cause some drowzyness?

Other than that, I too am looking at this multi for next time (though Multi Basics is more cost effective, it also has some lesser forms). I'm using this http://www.pureformu...h.1raArQBp.dpbs right now, and will either get the Thorne 2/per day or Multi Basics 3 next time.

Edited by petejones, 28 December 2013 - 12:02 PM.