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Risks and Rewards: My Experience with Nefiracetam and ADHD-PI

adhd nootropic nefiracetam ampa

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#1 Jonathan Moy de Vitry

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Posted 12 January 2014 - 05:00 PM


Note: I already posted this in the Nootropic Stack Sub-forum but someone told me that it might be nice to share it on the Brain Health one too.


Hi everyone

You may not recognize me because I don't post much on Longecity, but I have lurked around it a lot over the last year.

Today I'd like to contribute some observations I made during the two months I experimented with nefiracetam this spring. I've found that there's not much hard personal data on the internets about the effects of this unusual and highly potent nootropic, so I hope that every little extra bit of info I can provide will help inform curious users' decisions.

Anyway, let's start with a bit of background:

I'm a 27 year-old male bicycle courier with a history of severe PI ADHD and a few smidgeons of OCD thrown in for good measure. Although I have an IQ in the 140+ range, I've often had trouble performing even the simplest of tasks that require working memory, such as counting. This has considerably limited my professional and academic success. But things are getting better. Over the last 8 years I've been learning to use mindfulness and daily doses of Ritalin to become at least semi-functional and my life improves every year that passes.

Now, as I began to work on my master's thesis last January, I knew I was going to have to acquire some new "tools" if I was going to succeed. My mental capacity at the time just wasn't sufficient to undertake such a complex project. So, I began to experiment with various nootropics, keeping a detailed spreadsheet with precise dosages and a composite assessment of how I felt/performed each day.

I started with noopept (greatly improves cycling, creativity, fluid intelligence, enhances appreciation of music and art, leaves me edgy),

continued with aniracetam (very, very, very good for linguistic abilities and socializing, sharpens senses, tolerance builds quickly),

dabbled in oxiracetam (speedy and euphoric but useless for being useful),

tinkered with phenylpiracetam (surprisingly didn't feel a thing),

supplemented with choline bitartrate (only helps if I have the 'racetam headache),

popped some piracetam (no effect on focus yet makes me cognitively smarter--but I don't really need more of that when I can't even count, do I?),

and tested some pramiracetam (brings intense focus at the expense of turning me slightly autistic).


While many of the above noots had strong positive effects, I still had this nagging desire to know if something even better was out there. And it was this creeping curiosity, in combination with the fact I was still struggling with my thesis, that led me to try nefiracetam despite reports on its toxicity in animals. Also, since I had liked aniracetam so much for its AMPA effects, I thought nef could provide similar benefits.


The Pros

From my first dose, I knew nefiracetam was wonder drug, even in small quantities (30 mg 3 x a day, I weigh 76kg). I would take it in a capsule and minutes later my senses would light up, almost as if I was waking up from a perpetual semi-conscious state. As one other poster on this forum similarly put it, I could barely believe that such a potent compound was legal. Even better, from a functional perspective, was that I wouldn't experience any psychedelia such as intense colors (à la noopept), excessively deep thoughts (piracetam), or irrational euphoria (oxiracetam). I simply felt very awake, aware, and present, which was just the right state for me to be productive. It precisely counteracted the effects of the ADHD inattentiveness.

In total, I used nefiracetam for about two months, or nearly until the end of my thesis project, which went on to win an award from the Swedish innovation agency (I even got to meet the next prime minister because of it). All-in-all, I think I can say fairly objectively that I performed quite well under the influence of nef, even if I can't quantify how much it contributed to my success. I doubt I would have been able to finish my thesis without it, let alone win an award. I'm also pleased to say that it shifted my thinking patterns and made me more methodical, an effect that persists even today (is this LTP related?)

But, as the title of this post indicates, nef has its dark side.


The Cons

Despite using very low dosages so as to avoid the complications noted during animal studies, nefiracetam certainly burdened me with some bad side-effects.

First of all, it does mess with your urinary tract. As much as I wanted to ignore it, nefiracetam made me...dribble. Shortly after I began dosing, I had a difficult time urinating without having some urine leak into my pants after I had finished. Unless I changed my underpants after every bathroom break I would smell like an incontinent bum. These symptoms bring to mind the Japanese studies showing renal toxicity in dogs. Fortunately, the problem vanished quite quickly after I stopped taking nef, so I'm hopeful that no long-term damage was done.

The second major problem that I had while taking nefiracetam was the surging dysphoria and overstimulation that took hold of me near the end of the second month of dosing. While it may be unfair to pin these symptoms on nefiracetam alone given the stress of working on a thesis in an isolated environment (Swedish winters aren't very social), I still thought they had a "chemical" sort of feel to them. Like the comedown you get in the aftermath of using illicit rave substances. It was these symptoms that made me stop taking nef, weeks before the hand-in date for my thesis. Unlike the dribbling, it took several months of beautiful Swedish summer before I began to feel like myself again.


To Conclude

I love neuroscience, but I am no neuroscientist. What I've written here is only anecdotal evidence on the potentials and pitfalls of nefiracetam use in one individual, me. Don't let my imperfect experience with it prevent you from experimenting with it too. If you do decide to try it, do so very cautiously and stop taking it at the slightest occurrence of side-effects.

Hopefully, with all the research that is going into compounds targeting AMPA receptors, something similar to nefiracetam (but without the side-effects) will come to market over the next 10 years. It just works.



Jon
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#2 0010

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Posted 12 January 2014 - 07:24 PM

It's about time we see people become Limitless while on noots. Great post man!

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#3 Jonathan Moy de Vitry

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Posted 12 January 2014 - 09:08 PM

Thanks! Limitless is one of my favorite movies...It's kinda what inspired me to investigate noots in the first place :D

#4 0010

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Posted 12 January 2014 - 09:36 PM

I knew noots before the movie but became obsessed with them after the movie came out.My goal is to cure my LAD (lazy ass disorder) I'll be using desoxypipradrol,noopept,strychnine,nefiracetam.Tell me please,are your daily low-dose nefiracetam use sustainable long term,do you develop any tolerance to it? I also get the ''dribble'' while on carbamezapine,it works on gaba receptors,wikipedia states that nefiracetam also works on modulating gaba so maybe theres something going on with muscle relaxation since nefiracetam relaxes the muscles and even can be used as a anticonvulsant.

Edited by Schizo, 12 January 2014 - 09:38 PM.


#5 Jonathan Moy de Vitry

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Posted 13 January 2014 - 02:13 PM

haha, LAD! I think the best cure for that is low-dose stimulants if prescribed such a thing :)
I think I was developing some sort of a tolerance to it over the two months I used it or at least was becoming accustomed to the effects. In any case I wouldn't stack it with anything until you're quite familiar with it. It just feels kinda strong to be risking any kind of interactions..

Really interesting point about the muscle relaxation, I didn't even think of that!

Have you tried any other nooots?

#6 0010

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Posted 13 January 2014 - 02:33 PM

For now i need my parent-doctor approval to buy noots. I've only tried the ''classic'' racetams and didn't get the experience i was hoping for. My stack broken down into detail:
Desoxypipradrol-motivation,wakefulness promoting agent,releases histamine
Noopept-Word recall,hopefully blunts my emotions and makes me a robot ! :D
Strychnine-physical stimulation,pretty color enhancement.
Nefiracetam-I liked your success story :), might get some if I have some money left.
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#7 Jonathan Moy de Vitry

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Posted 15 January 2014 - 05:08 PM

Wow, strychnine! Now that one is a shocker! I'm surprised your parents let you test that one out
! haha

Is it for human consumption?

#8 psych0therapist

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Posted 02 October 2018 - 02:04 AM

This is an interesting post, I've been curious about Nefiracetam but after reading this, in conjunction with all the other threads I'm reading here and on r/nootropics, it seems like it's not really worth the risk when there are so many other Racetams available that I already respond well to. 

 

It's a shame because I came across a stack that I'd really like to try at one point, and it contains Nefiracetam. So it goes. 



#9 MichaelFocus22

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Posted 17 October 2018 - 02:53 AM

  I'm fascinated you found a good nootropic stack that worked for you. I will be going for my masters soon as well. I've all but quit on nootropics sense they all seem placebo. Basically, everything I use doesn't do anything for my ADHD-PI except for concerta but that just turns me into a zombie to where I'm not able to dictate a vibe accordingly.

 

 


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#10 psych0therapist

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Posted 24 October 2018 - 07:39 PM

I'm fascinated you found a good nootropic stack that worked for you. I will be going for my masters soon as well. I've all but quit on nootropics sense they all seem placebo. Basically, everything I use doesn't do anything for my ADHD-PI except for concerta but that just turns me into a zombie to where I'm not able to dictate a vibe accordingly.


Have you tried Phenylpiracetam?

#11 MichaelFocus22

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Posted 25 October 2018 - 02:54 AM

   No, I haven't used Phenylpiracetam, but It's my assumption  that it's very similar to choline or tyrosine. The issue, is that the brain builds tolerance and it feels like a really really low level stimulant. Caffeine only gives me severe anxiety with a minimal level to focus at a bare minimum. Which is very strange for me to say the least.



#12 John250

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Posted 25 October 2018 - 04:44 PM

No, I haven't used Phenylpiracetam, but It's my assumption that it's very similar to choline or tyrosine. The issue, is that the brain builds tolerance and it feels like a really really low level stimulant. Caffeine only gives me severe anxiety with a minimal level to focus at a bare minimum. Which is very strange for me to say the least.


Phenylpiracetam upregulates dopamine but can then suppress it so dosing it once every 3-4 days is best.

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#13 MichaelFocus22

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Posted 25 October 2018 - 07:21 PM

       I'm not really all that familiar with upregulation of the dopamine receptors, So feel free to elaborate upon the chemistry, is useful. Has Phenylpiracetam made any discernible difference in your ability to focus, I find when I eat horrible food, I accomplish even less. Their are some definite oddities with my ADD, as I appear to be resistant to classical stimulants and only provides me with more anxiety. When I don't eat my focus seems to be very decent, obviously not normal, but very clear. I'm curious about Phenylpiracetam  and it's half-life. Upon the assumption that I were to use it ever 3 to 4 days, how long does it last within this respect? I've basically given upon on most nootropics, sense they give me no ability to be able to balance the vibe as I like to call it. Feel free to look at my reference Thread On Conclusions of ADHD: Perhaps you have insights I lack. https://www.longecit...-adhd-pi/page-2.







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