29 replies to this topic

[xks201]

Do you guys feel like a stimulant type effect from this? It literally just felt like someone turned the lights on in my brain.

[formergenius]

Not really.. Perhaps a little. How much did you take?

[sk_scientific]

Only for the first several days did I experience TRUE, irrefutable physiological, or sympathetic nervous stimulation. Granted, I have been utilizing the ostensibly 'unstable' organic molecule and not the phosphate salt (what this means in terms of metabolites and consequences is unknown to me). When I initially began my trial, anxiety was pronounced and intensified, however after a couple of weeks this unpleasant effect gave way to a deeper sense of calm and well-being, which wasn't entirely sedating like one would come to expect from drugs with a narcotic or anxiolytic effect. I do now notice that when I take my initial morning dose, it is easier to fall asleep for the first hour or two of my day, subsequent to this I perceive a pronounced auditory buzz not unlike an internal tinnitus and a feeling of alertness (though this "sound" is between my ears and not specifically detected with my ear drums). I can not call the effect stimulation as one might come to expect from stimulant drugs and it seems to waft and wane in phases. I certainly feel more present and markedly more stable than before I began taking the substance, but I also experience periods of cognitive fatigue that are reminiscent of an adolescence long forgotten. I can only wonder if the phenomenae that I am experiencing are in fact due to neurological stimulation/growth; I'm finding this peculiar and vaguely reminiscent of 'growing pangs', albeit psychologically. I can't call what I am experiencing "bad" or "undesireable" at this point, where during the initial stages of my trial I could as I was inclined to seek a solution to "take the edge off of it". Though I do find myself needing more space and rest to recover from what I am going through than I did before, I can report that a multitude of my PTSD symptoms and reactions to triggers are significantly reduced and I am not falling into behavioral pits and patterns as deeply as I did before, though I am still slightly prone to self-medication with depressants like alcohol.

Let it be said that I have a formal education in Psychology and Cognitive Science from a Public Ivy League in the United States and that over the course of my years a number of approaches and medications have been presented to me to deal with my past traumas. I can not say that this substance is a panacea for all of my issues but god damn it was it ever heaven-sent to acquire the molecule! It has brought me relief and growth, emotionally that is and in an incredibly short period of time, but it has also invoked something somewhat reminiscent to what was labeled as ADHD in my childhood (in fact I am currently failing to focus at all at the singular most important online course I have ever endeavored to take, one at Yale University, the college of my childhood deams because I am all over the place in terms of concentration thanks to this experience). Where the ability to concentrate is reduced, as just mentioned, my mood and certain aspects, but only certain very specific aspects, of my memory (mostly internally visual) appear to be enhanced!

I am extremely interested in acquiring the phosphate salt form of this substance to check against my experience with the free base, and also, I believe that I will require some amount of time after this initial trial to assess my cognitive/perceptive states off of the substance -- I can only hope that truly beneficial results come from the structural changes and not from the pharmacological effects while under the influence.

In conclusion I am quite happy that I made the decision and indeed I think that this is a wonder-drug with great promise.Or in other words, I am finding myself a much happier man, come what may however odd this experience is proving to be for me.

I recommend NSI-189 to anyone suffering from PTSD or Depression -- I achieved these results in a month's time!

Edited by sk_scientific, 25 January 2014 - 02:46 AM.

[xks201]

Was Nyles selling the phosphate salt or free base? I took 50mg sublingual

This blows away every noot I've tried. I'd label it like a super anti depressant.

Edited by xks201, 25 January 2014 - 02:43 AM.

[sk_scientific]

That individual was selling the free base, which is an entirely organic molecule. I briefly spoke with a well respected professor of chemistry at a major institution, one whom I will not name and inquired about what it might take to convert the base to a phosphate salt, which he indicated to me would be quite difficult, if not inadviseable. Further enqueries with contacts I may or may not have on the east coast near Washington DC, though I have no specific science to support this assertion, seem to indicate that if one is to seek a superior drug action, if and only if the molecule is fresh and unadultered, one should specifically elect to take the base sublingually as opposed to the phosphate salt.

I have no particular loyalty to Nyles per se as I do not know him personally, and it's my impression that the phosphate version of this substance has a greater shelf life (which in terms of marketable pharmaceuticals is a major consideration), but that the drug action of the base is more significant. Though the masses will likely never have access to the base and once the drug hits the market we'll be breaking the law to synthesize and distribute it, my information could be incorrect.

I will, again, require some exposure to the phosphate version to come to my own personal conclusion, which much like that which I have already gathered, I must admit, will be based on conjecture and incomplete information.

Edited by sk_scientific, 25 January 2014 - 03:13 AM.

[sparkk51]

Was Nyles selling the phosphate salt or free base? I took 50mg sublingual

This blows away every noot I've tried. I'd label it like a super anti depressant.

This is your first time taking it? Give it a few days to normalize...

[xks201]

Yep. I'm changing it's name to the happiness molecule.

[sk_scientific]

Yep. I'm changing it's name to the happiness molecule.

Smart ass.

[formergenius]

I really wish some more individuals would weigh in on their experiences with NSI-189 and I find it utterly frustrating that so many have sought the compound, promised to opine, and slipped back into their usual pedestrian follies with no contribution to the community. Our time frame is limited on quasi-legally acquiring this compound and it behooves our agenda and the greater good to share what we can before our time runs out and we're finding ourselves at the mercy of the legal/pharmaceutical institutions.

Legal Smeagle. Where's there's a will, there's a loophole.

Anyway I'll pitch in with my experience:

I started freebase NSI-189 on the 8th of January with 20mg BID. On the 14th I upped to 30 BID. I tried 40mg once, thought it was too much, but I may try 50mg tomorrow. I've also had 2 days off recently, though I'm back on 30 BID now. I can't say it has done anything for me, aside from that it seems to worsen my dissociative symptoms (as I recall; one user quit due to "spaced out" feelings), but I figure it's worth it to see if benefits may occur later in my trial. I'm almost through my gram though, so I think I'm going to try 40 or 50 BID until it's gone, and then finish with an ascending Cerebrolysin cycle.

I've actually requested a refund from my group buy participation because I haven't seen any results. Perhaps too short of a trial, but for now I'm focused on trying other things. Perhaps in the future I may try it again, when I have less need for immediate results.

I took 50mg sublingual

How many times a day?

[sk_scientific]

How many times a day?

I know that you didn't direct this question at me, but I will go ahead and answer.

For the first week, I began with 10mg BID. At this dosage and at this phase in my trial I was suspicious that anything beyond would be dangerous as the side-effects were pronounced enough to cause me to miss work atleast once.

As I progressed into the second week, I found that 20mg BID was quite manageable, and that 10mg BID no longer rendered the same sense of neuropharmacological action that I was experiencing the prior week. I even went as far as to attempt 20mg TID, and paid for the presumption (I ended up obtaining two hours of sleep, try as I might to sedate myself with melatonin, tylenol and phenibut). Needless to say: there was anxiety, physical discomfort, and general insomnia. Given how well things were going I had incorrectly imagined that the potential for this outcome had since passed or I had imagined it in my first few days -- boy was I wrong to doubt myself.

By week three, I found myself increasing to 30mg BID with no significant consequence, and this remains my current dosage.

Unfortunately I have no reputable way of qualitatively testing what is the optimal titration for this compound aside from my own subjective experience, though I realize that what "feels right" might in fact be well below the appropriate levels of a therapeutic dose.

If you're anything like me you're looking for significant improvements in perceptive awareness/affect/cognition to have been precipitated by structural/long term changes in the brain-structure thereby rendering any/all future neuropharmaceutical supplementation obsolete, and it's hard to discern what qualifies as "permanent improvement", or even what might be considered as going "over-board" in terms of dosing schedule when your metric is merely your "feelings".

One thing I do know: taking this substance TID instead of BID *feels* like a bad move and if you have any responsibilities, I recommend a dose immediately upon waking, and one more 6-7 hours later... that is... Unless you want to wake up and head to work kicking yourself and wimpering after two hours of sleep.

Edited by sk_scientific, 25 January 2014 - 06:22 AM.

[xks201]

Well today was my first day of dosing. took 50mg sublingual free base around 4-5 hours ago. I felt happy as a clam there for a good 3 hours and then slowly as if ritalin or amphetamine was wearing off I was dropped into a mini depression of sadness. Nothing really in particular but yeah...I seem to be quite more emotional now in a negative way. Thinking of say ex girlfriends...almost on the brink of crying. And I am a 230 lb male that does not cry often. lol
It is not really a panic attack like I get coming down of ritalin but just like a morose sadness. Perhaps it was due to NSI stimulating my hypothalamus and then it wore off and I am adjusting back to normalcy. I don't know but I don't exactly like the comedown. Also I have a slight headache.

Why can't we find a drug to lift us up and not drop us back on our ass?

Edited by xks201, 25 January 2014 - 05:50 AM.

[sk_scientific]

Well today was my first day of dosing. took 50mg sublingual free base around 4-5 hours ago. I felt happy as a clam there for a good 3 hours and then slowly as if ritalin or amphetamine was wearing off I was dropped into a mini depression of sadness. Nothing really in particular but yeah...I seem to be quite more emotional now in a negative way. lol

Why can't we find a drug to lift us up and not drop us back on our ass?

I'm not sure that I find NSI-189 "drops me back on my ass", but I think there's some expected unpleasantness to be endured as one forces his cognitive/perceptual organ to under-go a sudden and unnatural alteration.

I don't think it feels like a drug, I think it feels like being a growing boy again out of nowhere. I even find my sleep patterns to be disrupted in a way that reminds me of puberty, e.g.- waking numerous times a night even when sedated and finding oneself nodding off during peculiar hours during the work day.

But, no pain, no gain as it were... I'm optimistic that mood and cognition will be as enhanced, just more stable once the treatment phase subsides.

Edited by sk_scientific, 25 January 2014 - 06:01 AM.

[sk_scientific]

Thinking of say ex girlfriends...almost on the brink of crying.

My man, NSI-189 or not, the only way to get over a woman, is to get over a woman. Trust me on that one, I'm with you!

[xks201]

That's good advice. I don't know why the trashy ones with no future that are good in bed are the hardest to get over but they are. Lol you'd think after having broken up with her a half dozen times and having slept with at least 50 women I wouldn't have this problem but I guess it's time to get over it.

[sk_scientific]

That's good advice. I don't know why the trashy ones with no future that are good in bed are the hardest to get over but they are. Lol you'd think after having broken up with her a half dozen times and having slept with at least 50 women I wouldn't have this problem but I guess it's time to get over it.

Or, just find a replacement. Whatever works.

[socialpiranha]

I don't know why the trashy ones with no future that are good in bed are the hardest to get over but they are.

It's cause they're good in bed

[xks201]

Thanks for reminding me lol

[socialpiranha]

no problem just returning the favor lol

[uralsky]

That individual was selling the free base, which is an entirely organic molecule. I briefly spoke with a well respected professor of chemistry at a major institution, one whom I will not name and inquired about what it might take to convert the base to a phosphate salt, which he indicated to me would be quite difficult, if not inadviseable. Further enqueries with contacts I may or may not have on the east coast near Washington DC, though I have no specific science to support this assertion, seem to indicate that if one is to seek a superior drug action, if and only if the molecule is fresh and unadultered, one should specifically elect to take the base sublingually as opposed to the phosphate salt.

It seems either professor did not understand correctly your question or you did not understand his response. Or perhaps he wanted to scare you away from consuming investigational drugs.
Once ingested, the free base will be converted to a salt form, mostly chloride plus some phosphate and other. Salt form is what it exists as inside the body at neutral pH.
If one prefers phosphate form simply mix it with coca-cola. I estimate it has at least 20 mM phosphoric acid in it. For 40mg dose of NSI-189 (109 umol) to protonate all 3 amino groups one would need 16 mL coca-cola. Providing that it will dissolve.
Citrate form is a good alternative too. Just add to orange juice.
Taking NSI-189 sublingually in a base form will raise pH in your mouth. It probably has better penetrability as a base but be careful with applying basic substance chronically.

Edited by uralsky, 26 January 2014 - 06:57 PM.

[sk_scientific]

It seems either professor did not understand correctly your question or you did not understand his response. Or perhaps he wanted to scare you away from consuming investigational drugs.

Taking NSI-189 sublingually in a base form will raise pH in your mouth. It probably has better penetrability as a base but be careful with applying basic substance chronically.

1.)

Here is a snippet:

"Hi [name redacted],

I was wondering about how you've been. It's been a while. How are you? Where are you?

The molecule you show is NOT a phosphate salt. it's not a salt at all, actually. It's an organic molecule and a quick search shows that similar molecules that share the piperazinyl-pyridinyl-methanone have been studied as potential drugs - from what I could see in 5 minutes, this appears to be not a very successful molecule. Making a phosphate salt out of what you show is a bit difficult - one would have to do a bit of work to do so; it would be a strange thing to do, however."

2.)

A test of what I have, unless my litmus strip is too old shows an only very slightly basic, possibly undetectable PH, closer to neutral but then I am not a chemist.

Can I ask how you determined the PH of this molecule?

[uralsky]

1.)
Here is a snippet:

"Hi [name redacted],

I was wondering about how you've been. It's been a while. How are you? Where are you?

The molecule you show is NOT a phosphate salt. it's not a salt at all, actually. It's an organic molecule and a quick search shows that similar molecules that share the piperazinyl-pyridinyl-methanone have been studied as potential drugs - from what I could see in 5 minutes, this appears to be not a very successful molecule. Making a phosphate salt out of what you show is a bit difficult - one would have to do a bit of work to do so; it would be a strange thing to do, however."

2.)

A test of what I have, unless my litmus strip is too old shows an only very slightly basic, possibly undetectable PH, closer to neutral but then I am not a chemist.

Can I ask how you determined the PH of this molecule?

1. Yes, making a phosphate salt would require a bit of work if one wanted to produced a powdered salt form.

2. pH is a property of water solution, not of a molecule. The base form will take out protons out of solutions to drive it basic, if it is soluble of course. I suspect NSI-189 base has poor solubility in water.
You can google " benzylpiperazin base causes burn". NSI is a derivative of BZP.
Good example of effects is here:
http://www.drugs-for...ad.php?t=107213

[sk_scientific]

2. pH is a property of water solution, not of a molecule. The base form will take out protons out of solutions to drive it basic, if it is soluble of course. I suspect NSI-189 base has poor solubility in water.
You can google " benzylpiperazin base causes burn". NSI is a derivative of BZP.
Good example of effects is here:
http://www.drugs-for...ad.php?t=107213

I apologize for my ignorance, perhaps I shouldn't (after-all it's ignorance) but benzylpiperazin is not the same substance as NSI-189 and therefore not necessarily going to render the same PH as the derivative has different valence properties, am I right? And, wait, BZP is nothing like NSI-189 in action at all because drug action is all about how the structure of a molecule activates or interacts with other structures (cellular structural, receptor sites, etc).

In any case, I've consumed the free base sublingually for a number of weeks and I can attest: there is no effect on my oral tissue at all, and the solubility is QUITE POOR. It might as well be chalk. I did mix the free base powder that I have with lemon juice and found it to dissolve more readily than it does in saliva or water but I did not noticeably detect a reaction, though that does not necessarily imply that there wasn't one.

Edited by sk_scientific, 27 January 2014 - 01:30 AM.

[formergenius]

Interesting; I find it slightly numbs the mouth.

[sk_scientific]

Interesting; I find it slightly numbs the mouth.

Yes, I find that it very slightly numbs the mouth as well but I believe this to be a property of its interaction with nerves and not the result of its PH.

I mean to say, that where I do detect a numbing effect, I do not believe this to be a property of a radical PH level altering or destroying flesh, but instead is the result of the compound interacting with nerve cells.

Though, once more, I could be very wrong.

Edited by sk_scientific, 27 January 2014 - 01:34 AM.

[MizTen]

I think it is entirely possible NSI-189 does affect nerve cells other than just the hippocampus.

My experience with it included several hours where an area of significant nerve damage in my hand suddenly began having all kinds of new sensations.

[sk_scientific]

I think it is entirely possible NSI-189 does affect nerve cells other than just the hippocampus.

My experience with it included several hours where an area of significant nerve damage in my hand suddenly began having all kinds of new sensations.

Yep, I have nerve damage in my left hand. It was significant enough to accidentally poke my thumb with random objects and not know it until I saw something sticking out of my hand. Though there is reduced sensation in the area as compared with my other hand, I do detect that I have increased sensation after using NSI-189.

I can not say with absolute certainty that I can attribute this to NSI-189 or GVS-111, or who knows what, but there is an outcome here for me that began with my consumption of nootropics two months ago.

Edited by sk_scientific, 27 January 2014 - 03:04 AM.

[sk_scientific]

1.)
Here is a snippet:

"Hi [name redacted],

I was wondering about how you've been. It's been a while. How are you? Where are you?

The molecule you show is NOT a phosphate salt. it's not a salt at all, actually. It's an organic molecule and a quick search shows that similar molecules that share the piperazinyl-pyridinyl-methanone have been studied as potential drugs - from what I could see in 5 minutes, this appears to be not a very successful molecule. Making a phosphate salt out of what you show is a bit difficult - one would have to do a bit of work to do so; it would be a strange thing to do, however."

2.)

A test of what I have, unless my litmus strip is too old shows an only very slightly basic, possibly undetectable PH, closer to neutral but then I am not a chemist.

Can I ask how you determined the PH of this molecule?

1. Yes, making a phosphate salt would require a bit of work if one wanted to produced a powdered salt form.

2. pH is a property of water solution, not of a molecule. The base form will take out protons out of solutions to drive it basic, if it is soluble of course. I suspect NSI-189 base has poor solubility in water.
You can google " benzylpiperazin base causes burn". NSI is a derivative of BZP.
Good example of effects is here:
http://www.drugs-for...ad.php?t=107213

Am I missing something here? If you're saying the presence of phosphoric acid is all that is required to render NSI-189 phosphate from the free-base, then would not a solution of NSI-189 Phosphate simply require evaporation (considerations of mixing this in crude soft drinks, aside)?

Edited by sk_scientific, 27 January 2014 - 03:30 AM.

[sk_scientific]

Once ingested, the free base will be converted to a salt form, mostly chloride plus some phosphate and other. Salt form is what it exists as inside the body at neutral pH.

Once interacted with hydrochloric acid in the stomach, no? But this is irrelevant given the myriad interactions in the blood stream that may occur when taken sublingually.

Do we have any actual chemists around here? I don't know enough about chemistry to look at the NSI-189 molecule to determine if it's even capable of bonding as-is.

Damn I'm frustrated.

[sk_scientific]

Any updates?

[syntropy]

I'm taking NSI from Nyles- it is the phosphate. Are they not the same compound?