20 replies to this topic

[Duke318]

Hey there. I'm 24 years old and I have ADHD with some OCD tendencies. I also have dealt with moderate to severe depression, as well as anxiety. I have tried almost every pharmaceutical stimulant out there, as well as numerous anti-depressants. I also suffer from a very poor appetite. It seems that the only way for me to have much of an appetite is to be on an SSRI or on Remeron. I'm trying to deal with everything in the safest possible manner with the least side effects.

Current Stack:

Morning
500 mg ALCAR
700 mg Acetyl-L-Tyrosine
200 mg Rhodiola (15% extract)
Fish Oil
12.5 mg Stablon

Lunch
300 mg Alpha GPC
1 Synergy Vitacost Multivitamin
Milk Thistle
12.5 mg Stablon

Dinner
12.5 mg Stablon
Fish Oil

Bedtime
500 mg Bacopa
400 mg Magnesium Glycinate
250 mg Grapeseed extract
Spoonful of Inositol
1 mg Intuniv

I just started a trial of Intuniv yesterday. Not sure if I'm feeling any effects or placebo so far, will see how I feel after being on it for a few days. I'm currently withdrawing from Viibryd, today is my first day down from 10 to 0 mg. Not sure if I'm feeling anything too bad yet, I had lucid nightmares the other day going from 20 to 10 mg. I have had a reduction in my anxiety since starting the Bacopa/Rhodiola up again, as usually SSRI withdrawal is a complete nightmare for me. Stablon is also a new experiment for me, but I'm not noticing any acute effects. Today I felt somewhat wired. I also dealt with a situation where I would normally have had bad anxiety not affect me nearly as much. Intuniv working? Like I said, I need to give it a week or two to evaluate.

Incoming/Future Supps:
Uridine
Deprenyl

I just wrapped up a trial with Stabilium, the fancy french fish oil. Not sure if it had any effect, but lots of variables have been changing so it's hard to tell what is working. I will see if there's any change in anxiety now that I've run out of it.

[Duke318]

Day 2 of Intuniv. I am definitely noticing some activation, and it seems like I'm not as pissed off about things that I normally would be. Still need more time to judge effects, and I suspect that the 2 mg dose will be superior. I'm not getting any sedation, if anything, it's activating, I think I may start taking it in the mornings.

One thing that is strange, I'm on day two of no Viibryd, and I'm not experiencing the usual withdrawal I get from antidepressants. No extreme irritability, and my appetite is still decent. I'm noticing less cravings for sugar and candy. Before, candy was irresistible, and even just walking in the grocery store I loaded my cart up with starburst, chocolate, and other crap. Last time I went to the store, I had no desire to purchase any of those things, and I'm able to resist urges to eat candy. Weird.

I'm wondering if the Bacopa/Rhodiola/Inositol stack is alleviating the usual antidepressant withdrawal. Whatever the case, I'm not complaining.

Added a few things to my stack around lunchtime:

Tumeric -400 mg
Uridine 250 mg
Gingko Biloba 120 mg

Also, Phosphatidylserine and Piracetam are incoming.

I'm really hoping to improve my memory, I think 5+ years of antidepressant use has caused permanent changes. I can't remember faces of people anymore, unless I know the person for at least several weeks. I remember as a young child, being able to remember every persons name in the entire 3rd grade, as well as still remembering faces when only meeting someone one time. Hopefully I can get at least 50% of the way there.

Edited by Duke318, 12 February 2014 - 09:51 PM.

[noopept-user-123]

Day 2 of Intuniv. I am definitely noticing some activation, and it seems like I'm not as pissed off about things that I normally would be. Still need more time to judge effects, and I suspect that the 2 mg dose will be superior. I'm not getting any sedation, if anything, it's activating, I think I may start taking it in the mornings.

One thing that is strange, I'm on day two of no Viibryd, and I'm not experiencing the usual withdrawal I get from antidepressants. No extreme irritability, and my appetite is still decent. I'm noticing less cravings for sugar and candy. Before, candy was irresistible, and even just walking in the grocery store I loaded my cart up with starburst, chocolate, and other crap. Last time I went to the store, I had no desire to purchase any of those things, and I'm able to resist urges to eat candy. Weird.

I'm wondering if the Bacopa/Rhodiola/Inositol stack is alleviating the usual antidepressant withdrawal. Whatever the case, I'm not complaining.

Added a few things to my stack around lunchtime:

Tumeric -400 mg
Uridine 250 mg
Gingko Biloba 120 mg

Also, Phosphatidylserine and Piracetam are incoming.

I'm really hoping to improve my memory, I think 5+ years of antidepressant use has caused permanent changes. I can't remember faces of people anymore, unless I know the person for at least several weeks. I remember as a young child, being able to remember every persons name in the entire 3rd grade, as well as still remembering faces when only meeting someone one time. Hopefully I can get at least 50% of the way there.

Are you still taking the Mirtazapine or SSRI at all? Rhodiola is good stuff, I highly recommend it. Ever tried St. Johns Wort? I think it is worth a try.

Why take all this stuff at once? I would try taking rhodiola first by itself to see if it is gives you desired effects. If so, then no need to make a huge stack.

[Duke318]

Completely off of the SSRi and mirtazapine at this point.

I have experience with Rhodiola before, but I don't really get any acute effects out of it. Looking at it from a long-term perspective this time around, to see if any effects accumulate. I have tried SJW before, although I'm unsure of any effects. I may do another trial of it with a higher quality product at some point.

[jadamgo]

Once you get the current elements of your stack stabilized, try adding piracetam. Also try noopept. Those 2 racetams in particular are helpful in ADHD.

[Duke318]

Been on 2 mg Intuniv for a few days now. Not much of a difference? No remission of ADHD symptoms. It may be helping a little bit as a mood stabilizer. I will give it a little more time, but I am planning to rethink my anti-depressant regimen.

Stablon has zero effect on me. I took the normal 3x daily 12.5 mg for a while, and then discontinued use, there was no change. I also took 4 pills at once, with no effect. Disappointing.

My next plan of action is an MAOI. Been researching Nardil, Parnate, and Deprenyl. Also researching Lyrica for something to use as needed for anxiety, because Benzos have zero effect on me. I've tried Klonopin, Ativan, and Phenibut at high doses with zero effect.

[Duke318]

Up to 3 mg on Intuniv. There is definitely an activating quality to it, but not sure if it's helpful for ADHD. The one positive benefit I am noticing is mood stabilization and decreased anxiety. Things aren't pissing me off as much as they usually do, and I'm able to move on from intrusive thoughts. This med could be useful just for this effect alone.

I've decided to continue with Stablon, the standard 3x daily 12.5 mg dose. Although I don't experience the acute euphoric effects reported by others, there may be a cumulative effect if I take it for several weeks. We'll see how it goes.

Got my Piracetam in the mail, but it tastes awful so I ordered some empty capsules to cap it myself.

I decided to not start the MAOI trial yet. On one hand, my appetite right now is poor and could definitely use some help...but it sounds like Nardil promotes water weight gain, lethargy, and affects the metabolism. Also really want to avoid anything that causes sexual dysfunction, I've had some lasting effects since getting off Viibryd, but things are slowly improving.

I did manage to get a prescription for Lyrica. I am one of the few unfortunate people that has zero response to benzos, 2 mg of Ativan or Klonopin does absolutely nothing, and 3-4g of Phenibut does absolutely nothing. I've heard that Lyrica has a different mechanism of action and can work for people that don't respond to benzos. I am only planning to use 75-150 mg as needed when severe anxiety sets in, the research I've done suggests that long-term use has tolerance issues and is bad for cognition. My doctor has also suggested Wellbutrin. I have tried it in the past, but not for a long enough period of time to say if it was effective. Really looking for something to help with motivation, but lack of appetite is the last thing I need.

Current Stack

Morning
1 g ALCAR
100 mg Rhodiola (15%)
12.5 mg Stablon
3 mg Intuniv

Lunch
Vitacost multivitamin
500 mg Uridine
300 mg Alpha GPC
120 mg Gingko Biloba
12.5 mg Stablon
Fish Oil

Dinner/Bed
5g Inositol
750 mg Bacopa
400 mg Magnesium Glycinate
12.5 mg Stablon
250 mg Grape Seed Extract
300 mg Phosphatidylserine
Fish Oil

Incoming: Piractam

[Ultravioletbllc]

I have been Perfecting (my) a Stack for adhd co morbid with C-ptsd/cognitive enhancement , since 2011I have finally (late December 2013) Perfected my stack and my Therapeutic Treatment program as well......As for your own stack im in high agreement with : Stablon, Gingko(assuming its Extract) Grape Seed Extract, Inositol ,Uridine ,Alcar (However These days I don't touch anything Other then Acetyl-L-Carnitine-Arginate) , and fish Oil (However I wouldn't even recommend Fish oil as a Nootropic Rx Unless dosages are beginning at 3 Grams Daily, I Think you could find Incredible Success with the addition of these elements (all affordable and easily accessible) 2X500mg DLPA Daily , 15 MG Lithium orotate Nightly), Removal of bacopa,Full Spectrum Green tea Extract with an emphasis on ecgc, Addition of 200mg L Theanine As needed , 1.4 mgs 5-mhtf(active folate aka deplin), 750 mg daily TMG, replace glycinate With Magnesium L Threonate immediately , Agmatine 500mgx2-3 times daily ,Huperzine 200mcg Twice daily(titrate up Slowly until 400-600 mcg a time is your dose, and I rely on a cycled stack between PhenylPiracetam+sunifiram+Adrafinil(low dose) and Piracetam ,Sunifiram, Deprenyl(as I using it for Nootropic/adhd purposes NOT pure Life extension im dosing between 5-15 mgs a day)

[Ultravioletbllc]

As for Anxiety I've found that stimulants (Dextroamphetamine,Deprenyl,Dexmethylphenidate,amnofonelic acid, Buprenorphine at around 1 mg daily) ( Dopamine receptor agonists) (DRI,s as well), Gabaergics such as a(Homeade) mixture of Picamilon,GABA,Inositol,Phenibut, and lemon Balm extract Taken in conjunction with GASTRODIN has made a life changing effect where anxiety is concerned , Piracetam +afobazole +Aniracetam +Agmatine Is a Wonderful stack for anxiety .........But the Lyrica is a Wonderful Production(Pregabalin) and if used SPARINGLY with augmentations vis a vis gabaergics can be a part of a successful and still ACTIVE Nootropic stack ..................I also couldn't imagine a day without Lithium orotate or Magnesium L threonate(stacked with agmatine and huperazine for a Tri-Nmda antagonist approach....and both the Lithium and the NMDA stack I created for myself are Indispensable in so many ways, since my nmda inhibition is coming from three separate unqiue novel nmda inhibitors (and I obviously picked them for a reason) I get a Great anxiolytic effect, ADHD support, General Nootropic enhancement(especially when combined with ampakines or ampa receptor agonists from NMDA inhibition( as well as INCREDIBLE effects on memory , Pain relief, Tolerance, Addiction ,Withdrawal(OR LACK THERE OF when concerning my dextroamphetamine use)

[Duke318]

Thanks for all that, I will definitely add that stuff to my stack. Any reason you're against Bacopa?

[Duke318]

I just wanted to report that after having a really poor week, I am all of a sudden in a great mood. I made some small changes to my stack over the past few days, and I have also begun incorporating aural therapy and meditation, using the Brainwaves T.U.S. app for android phones. I tried Lyrica 150 mg for the first time yesterday, during something that would normally cause anxiety. There was definitely a decrease in anxiety, and I used the brainwaves app to do some meditation which helped me get through it. My appetite has also been up the past few days, not sure what caused that, but it's a good thing.

I was presented with a situation this morning that normally would have pissed me off, but instead I handled it maturely which produced a great outcome. This morning with breakfast I had 3 cups of coffee and 200 mcg Huperzine-A. Noticed a huge mood and motivation lift. I may want to make Caffeine a normal part of my stack, but tolerance is an issue. Perhaps with the triple NMDA antagonist solution ultravioletllc presented above, I could avoid tolerance? I have tried memantine before, it increased generalized anxiety and made me foggy as hell. I am also looking into experimenting with Nicotine patches/gum.

Morning
1 gram ALCAR
2 mg Intuniv
700 mg Acetyl L-Tyrosine
100 mg Rhodiola (15%)
25 mg Stablon

Afternoon
Vitacost multivitamin
500 mg Uridine
300 mg Alpha GPC
120 mg Gingko Biloba
25 mg Stablon
Fish Oil

Evening
5 g Inositol
500 mg Bacopa
300 mg Phosphatidylserine
400 mg Magnesium Glycinate
250 mg Grape Seed Extract
1g L-Tryptophan
Fish Oil

Incoming supps to incorporate:
-Amino Acids w/ caffeine in the morning
-DLPA
-Regular L-Tyrosine
-Lithium Orotate
-Agmatine
-Life extension optimized folate (Deplin)
-Magnesium L-Threonate
-Branched Chain Amino Acids
-Picamilon
-Piracetam

Edited by Duke318, 22 February 2014 - 11:20 PM.

[Ultravioletbllc]

Bacopa is a strong noot , However in all of my personal experience and years of trial and error with my adhd regime Bacopa goes against what you are trying too achieve In My experience....However if it gives you focus and clarity I wouldn't stop.......and that's a key here is knowing each substance very deeply so much so that you can indicate synergies benefits negatives of each addition etc etc....PS the Nmda inhibition stack in combination with any good adhd based nootropic stack (especially if it involves ampakines) Requires a Good Nmda Inhibitor In my NMDA inhibition method I have employed Three novel Mechanisms at antagonizing NMDA that all work synergistically but all in an individual dose dependent manner.....Most nootrops are agonists at this site...(IE Piracetam,centro) But since my stack is RX as Nootropic regime for my ADHD co Morbid C-PTSD My experience with NMD inhibitors is (all except huperazine) can make you tired,drugged,drowsy, "stupid" for the first few weeks..w.hile these effects are not as strong as say memantine they are felt even if subtly espescially with Nmda Inhibition Vis a VIS Magnesium L threonate.....because its a Very interesting NMDA inhibitor, agmatine is second too none and has such an amazing set of (potential) Residually building Rewards....Nootropic activity on a variety of levels ,anti anxiety,potentiates opiates and marijuana , promotes and releases B-endorphins , Pain relieving action in the same vein as morphine ,definitely one of the best supplements IVE EVER COME ACROSS its got a place in my supp box for the foreseeable future BECAUSE IT WORKS for nootropic Purposes and at this point I cant take anything that "Might" work I've gone through every major nutriceutical and nootropic known and at this point I take what I take in a medicinal manner and therefore it has too be as cost effective as plausible

Edited by Ultravioletbllc, 26 February 2014 - 05:11 AM.

[Duke318]

I'm revising my stack. I'm going to give 4 mg of Intuniv a whirl, and then drop it if I don't see effects. So far I'm finding Intuniv useless for my ADHD, but could potentially help a little bit with mood stabilization and anxiety. I'm hoping Agamatine can have a similar effect.

I'm finding Stablon to be completely useless. It's like taking a sugar pill. Even if it offers subtle effects, it doesn't seem worth it to take a pharmaceutical from a foreign pharmacy multiple times per day. The less pills the better.

I have some interesting supps heading my way, and hopefully some stuff that will help with appetite. I feel kind of overloaded on serotonin right now, I feel apathetic, lazy, and unmotivated, with some erectile dysfunction even. I'm going to lower my bacopa dosage and ditch Rhodiola. I may even get rid of bacopa, we'll see. I honestly don't see much of an effect from any of the racetams, in fact I think they may make me angry/irritable. I've been experimenting with 1g of Piracetam with Alpha GPC, and I'm not sure they do much of anything.

I've been researching stuff like crazy, and I feel like Glutumate is a huge overlooked piece of the puzzle with ADHD. People with excess glutumate are extremely irritable, and have memory and cognitive deficits. I have Acetyl L-Cysteine headed my way, which is supposed to indirectly lower glutumate levels. High glutumate could be the explanation for my lifelong crappy appetite and irritability. All the other neurotransmitters are probably thrown out of whack by it.

I tried Lyrica all the way up to 300 mg. It is slightly calming, and makes me feel a bit drunk. People report cognitive deficits with long-term use, but I'm wondering if perhaps a low consistent dose 75-150 mg 2x daily could actually help my cognition by keeping my excess glutumate at bay. This is all a lot of broscience, but who knows. Anyone care to weigh in?

Edited by Duke318, 28 February 2014 - 04:58 AM.

[Ultravioletbllc]

It can be argued that calcium channel blockers are nootropics in the same vein as say propanolol is viewed as nootropic by some (Myself included)

[Duke318]

Dropped Intuniv. Don't notice much of a difference, experimented with as high as 4 mg.

Current Stack:

ALCAR 1 g
L-methylfolate 2 mg
Agmatine 1 g
NAC 1 g
Uridine 250 mg
Poliquin Uberzinc - 1 pill
Lyrica 75mg

Lunch
Multivitamin
Agmatine 1 g
Tumeric force 2 pills
LIthium Orotate 10 mg
Gingko Biloba 120 mg
Alpha GPC 300 mg
Uridine 250 mg

Bed
Poliquin Uberzinc 1 pill
Magnesium L-threonate - 3 pills
Inositol 5g
Grape Seed Extract 250 mg
Lyrica 75 mg
Lions Mane 1g
PHosphatidylserine 200 mg
L-tryptophan 500 mg

Doing really well on this stack. Anxiety is down, motivation and energy is up. Stoked. Getting rid of Bacopa and reducing the serotonin acting stuff has helped a lot.

I am also taking tons of Fish Oil and Iodine in the form of kelp throughout the day. I am experiencing detox effects - almost feel sick, but in theory this is the bromide and fluoride toxins exiting the system. I really think I am on to something with this Iodine trial, I think a lot of my symptoms point to hypothyroidism. The thing is, I was in the normal range when I tested about 10 yrs ago (at age 15). I am hoping the thyroid is the issue with my lifelong chronic shitty appetite...I guess we will see.

Edited by Duke318, 04 March 2014 - 06:41 AM.

[Duke318]

I am actually supplement free at the moment. I am gathering more data so I can more safely choose proper supplements.

I am taking another route. I am beginning to think that I don't have any mental health problems at all - and that all of my issues are being caused by a thyroid or adrenal/hormonal issue.

I got some blood tests. My Reverse T3 was highly elevated, at 36.6...normal is 9-24. My Iron was also high at 172, should be between 40-155.

My next step of action is to check Cortisol and DHEA levels. Then we can start looking at supplements...I'm leaning towards me having a very low cortisol level, which would explain the appetite issues I have, irritability, and very low affinity for stress. In fact, a lot of the supplements I have been taking have been known to lower cortisol, which would make my problem even worse.

I think it's important for people to realize that they need to get blood labs done before they choose which supplements to go on.

Edited by Duke318, 11 March 2014 - 10:51 PM.

[Duke318]

LOTS of stuff has been going on, and I'll give you the cliffnotes:

 

-Morning Cortisol is ridiculously low in the morning, and high at night

-Reverse T3 is elevated, deficient in Iodine

-There are indications of inflammation in the body (high ferritin)

-Got my hormones tested, my estradiol is sky high

-I tested positive for the MTHFR defect.

 

Pregnenolone: 168 ng/dL (04/21/14)
DHEA Sulfate: 392 ug/dL (04/21/14) : 34 - 569
17 Hydroxyprogesterone.: 153 ng/dL (04/21/14)
Androstenedione: 71 ng/dL (04/21/14)
Estradiol Lvl: (H) 237 pg/mL (04/21/14)
Progesterone Level - In House: 0.42 ng/mL (04/21/14)
Cortisol Lvl: (L) 4.4 ug/dL (04/21/14) : 5.0 - 25.0
Testosterone Total-FREET: 396 ng/dL (04/21/14)
Testosterone Free-FREET: 68.4 pg/mL (04/21/14)

 

Testosterone is also ridiculously low for an active 25 y/o, but that is likely because it is all converting to estradiol.  Studies show that high estradiol levels are due to inflammation and stress, and it acts as a liver protector.  MTHFR is associated with increased inflammation and inability to detox properly.  I'm also getting tested for Lyme disease and other co-infections to rule that out.  Long-term anti-depressant use, coupled with MTHFR and inflammation, has screwed up my hypothalamus-pituitary-adrenal axis.  I've stopped looking at the brain, and instead looked at optimizing every aspect of my health, and I am achieving better results that way.  I need to see an endocrinologist so I can start treating the hormonal issues, and an MTHFR geneticist to deal with the supplementation for MTHFR (it is VERY complex, depending on your combination of genes).

 

BIG things are coming my way, and I look forward to sharing it with you guys.

[explr9]

 I have ADHD, 15 years on Ritilian. 

 

I am thinking that the HD part of ADHD is anxiety. methyalation problems may be the underlying issue. 

The MTHFR gene thing looks interesting. I am going to get tested.

 

High dose fish-oil has been really helpful- 8 grams, have been on it for 3 months. I have tried all the racetams, all the cholines, uridine, a bunch of herbs and vitamins... fish oil is the best. great anti-inflammatory for brain and body. It even helps with the post-work out  cortisol spike, thereby speeding excercise recovery and reducing soreness.

 

Looks like your getting some good info. congratulations on  breakthrus.

 

[Ultravioletbllc]

I have been absent in jail .... not the typical Longecity member you see , I am currently on  Tianeptine , adrafinil ,coluracetam , coluracetam , a vitamin shoppe blend brain shield with Huperazine a , blueberry extract etc etc

 

 

 and Concerta IC(36mgs)

 

I am sorry too hear of all your troubles man ......... Hope you get this all sorted out

[CognAscent]

I'm noticing less cravings for sugar and candy. Before, candy was irresistible, and even just walking in the grocery store I loaded my cart up with starburst, chocolate, and other crap.

 

Man, this really took me back to when I was on Zoloft. I could spend 20 bucks on candy and down it, it became my meals because it 'made me happy so screw it.' Good luck man, that withdrawal can be nasty if it hits.

[Mr.No]

Nicotinic acid (20 to 50mg per kg ) decrease cAMP and result might be  http://www.scienceda...70420143324.htm