81 replies to this topic

[misterE]

 

 

 

But wouldn't that mean that those of us with ancestors who evolved mostly in the warmer climates are genetically optimized for a different macro ratio and fat intake pattern?

 

 

 

I'm not sure completely, but what I do know for fact is that:

 

Humans evolved from the equator.

Humans are warm-blooded animals.

Humans synthesize saturated and monounsaturated-fats and are unable to synthesize polyunsaturated-fats.

Human milk has a high ratio of saturated and monounsaturated fat to polyunsaturated-fat.

 

Does this tell you anything?

Edited by misterE, 08 March 2015 - 07:15 PM.

[TheFountain]

 

 

 

 

But wouldn't that mean that those of us with ancestors who evolved mostly in the warmer climates are genetically optimized for a different macro ratio and fat intake pattern?

 

 

 

I'm not sure completely, but what I do know for fact is that:

 

Humans evolved from the equator.

Humans are warm-blooded animals.

Humans synthesize saturated and monounsaturated-fats and are unable to synthesize polyunsaturated-fats.

Human milk has a high ratio of saturated and monounsaturated fat to polyunsaturated-fat.

 

Does this tell you anything?

 

No, but some nuts have much higher polyunsaturated fat ratios. Examples, Macadamia nuts and cashews-less, Peanuts,  walnuts, almonds-more. Macadamia's are really native to places like Australia and Hawaii. While peanuts are native to south America. Which tells us what? 

Edited by TheFountain, 08 March 2015 - 08:24 PM.

[misterE]

What I think is important is to main a high ratio of saturated and monounsaturated fat to polyunsaturated-fat in the body tissues. Macadamia, cocoa, palm, coconut are all fats that closely resemble the ratio of fats naturally found in the human body. Animal fats are like this also, most contain a high ratio of saturated and monounsaturated fat to polyunsaturated-fat. What isn't normal (or healthy in my opinion) is for the human body to contain a high-ratio of polyunsaturated-fat to saturated-fat. Walnuts, flaxseeds, sunflower seeds, soybean-oil, canola-oil, corn-oil, are all fats that do not represent the natural fatty-acid composition of the human body.

 

 

Edited by misterE, 08 March 2015 - 10:23 PM.

[ditycity9]

I think most nuts are nothing special. The only nuts I would consider eating are almonds, sunflower seeds and macadamia. Almonds and sunflower have vitamin e with helps to offset the negative effects of the PUFA content and macadamias have almost no pufa.

[TheFountain]

I think most nuts are nothing special. The only nuts I would consider eating are almonds, sunflower seeds and macadamia. Almonds and sunflower have vitamin e with helps to offset the negative effects of the PUFA content and macadamias have almost no pufa.

 

The thing to remember is the mineral profile of nuts. Think of all that a serving of cashews has to offer, despite its 2 grams of PUFA. 

 

Minerals

Amounts Per Selected Serving

%DV

Calcium

10.4

mg

1%

Iron

1.9

mg

10%

Magnesium

81.8

mg

20%

Phosphorus

166

mg

17%

Potassium

185

mg

5%

Sodium

3.4

mg

0%

Zinc

1.6

mg

11%

Copper

0.6

mg

31%

Manganese

0.5

mg

23%

Selenium

5.6

mcg

8%

 

Read More http://nutritiondata...1#ixzz3Tul75zaM

 

Not bad eh? 

[misterE]

Another risk of nuts is that they are extremely calorie dense, in fact the only food more dense in calories than nuts themselves, is oil. One pound of sugar, which everyone is scared to death of, is only 1750 calories per pound, whereas nuts are 2600 calories per pound! Potatoes are only 450 calories per pound, yet people make potatoes out to be the worlds most fattening food! Nuts do contain nutrients like minerals and vitamins, fiber and phytonutrients... but I think it is best to obtain these nutrients from steamed vegetables. Most green cruciferous vegetables have good omega-3 to omega-6 ratios, whereas nuts have a horrible ratio... look here:

 

 

Omega-3 to Omega-6 ratio:

 

 Cashews (1:141)     Calcium per 1000 calories: 65mg.       Vitamin E per 1000 calories: 1.5mg.     Total PUFA per 1000 calories: 14 grams.

 Broccoli   (2:1)         Calcium per 1000 calories: 1145mg.   Vitamin E per 1000 calories: 41.5mg.   Total PUFA per 1000 calories:   5 grams.   

 

Almonds (1:2100)     Calcium per 1000 calories: 460mg.     Vitamin C per 1000 calories: 0mg.        Total PUFA per 1000 calories: 21 grams.

Cauliflower (3:1)       Calcium per 1000 calories: 695mg.     Vitamin C per 1000 calories: 1925mg.  Total PUFA per 1000 Calories: 9.5 grams.

 

Pistachio (1:47)        Calcium per 1000 calories: 195mg.     Magnesium per 1000 calories: 215mg.  Total PUFA per 1000 calories: 24 grams.

Pinto Bean (1:1)       Calcium per 1000 calories: 325mg.     Magnesium per 1000 calories: 505mg.  Total PUFA per 1000 calories: 1 gram.

 

 

 

 

Remember that with the essential polyunsaturated-fats, since we cannot make these on our own, the type, amount and ratio all depend directly to the type, amount and ratio of the food you eat.

[sensei]

 

 

 

 

But wouldn't that mean that those of us with ancestors who evolved mostly in the warmer climates are genetically optimized for a different macro ratio and fat intake pattern?

 

 

 

I'm not sure completely, but what I do know for fact is that:

 

Humans evolved from the equator.

Humans are warm-blooded animals.

Humans synthesize saturated and monounsaturated-fats and are unable to synthesize polyunsaturated-fats.

Human milk has a high ratio of saturated and monounsaturated fat to polyunsaturated-fat.

 

Does this tell you anything?

 

 

Since you bring up evolution, humans have lived away from the equator for at least 40,000 years and perhaps as long as 100,000.  Human milk is perfect for adding fat to keep babies warm and regulate their body temperature since we are not covered in hair or fur.

 

The nutrient ratio in human breast milk is not ideal for adolescent and adult humans else we would never be weaned.

[misterE]

 Human milk is perfect for adding fat to keep babies warm and regulate their body temperature since we are not covered in hair or fur.

 

 

 

What about cows. Their milk contains a high ratio of SFA/MUFA to PUFA... yet they are covered in hair.

[sensei]

 

 Human milk is perfect for adding fat to keep babies warm and regulate their body temperature since we are not covered in hair or fur.

 

 

 

What about cows. Their milk contains a high ratio of SFA/MUFA to PUFA... yet they are covered in hair.

 

 

Cow's milk has evolved to make baby cows fat, to compensate for the likelihood of foraging issues and/or drought and first and second winter starvation during their early life.

 

Animal husbandry is relatively recent, for the vast majority of evolutionary time cows were on their own, no straw rolls, hay bales, corn feed etc.

 

Obviously, human babies are also fat for the same reason, but also for temperature regulation.

 

Regardless, the ratio of fats in human and bovine milk is not optimal for adolescent or adult humans.

 

Milk has evolved to make babies fat and provide a massive amount of growth factors, or substances that trigger endogenous growth factor production.

Edited by sensei, 12 March 2015 - 12:33 PM.

[misterE]

I think there is meaning to the fatty-acid composition.. In fact I'm starting to think that most disease are caused or agitated by an unhealthy composition. In diabetes for instance, the greater the amount of polyunsaturated free-fatty-acids you have circulating in your body, compared to either saturated or monounsaturated, reduces your secretion of insulin in response to glucose. Lipid-peroxidation and the resulting vitamin-E deficiency plays a role in heart-disease and cancer. Of course polyunsaturated-fats are much more prone to lipid-oxidation than SFA or MUFA.

Edited by misterE, 12 March 2015 - 03:56 PM.

[misterE]

Plus polyunsaturated-fats are diet dependent. It doesn't matter how much exercise you do, how much fiber you eat, how much sugar or saturated-fat you eat or nothing. None of that is going to influence your polyunsaturated-fat status. The only thing that has any influence over the type, amount and balance of your polyunsaturates, is the type, amount and balance of the polyunsaturates you eat directly! This is some very important to understand in my opinion. Look back 100 years ago before our obesity epidemic and look at the trend in polyunsaturated-fat intake...

Edited by misterE, 12 March 2015 - 04:13 PM.

[HaloTeK]

Plus polyunsaturated-fats are diet dependent. It doesn't matter how much exercise you do, how much fiber you eat, how much sugar or saturated-fat you eat or nothing. None of that is going to influence your polyunsaturated-fat status. The only thing that has any influence over the type, amount and balance of your polyunsaturates, is the type, amount and balance of the polyunsaturates you eat directly! This is some very important to understand in my opinion. Look back 100 years ago before our obesity epidemic and look at the trend in polyunsaturated-fat intake...

 

MisterE,  if you are extremely thin, do you think polyunsaturated intake will really effect you that much very the average overweight American?  I'm just not sure the type of fat matters as much "IF" you are thin.

[misterE]

Well not only are these fats stored in the adipose tissue, but they also comprise the cell membrane in every cell of your body, so yes I think it does matter very much. Just because you are thin doesn't mean you are immune to metabolic-syndrome.

Edited by misterE, 12 March 2015 - 09:21 PM.

[sensei]

Well not only are these fats stored in the adipose tissue, but they also comprise the cell membrane in every cell of your body, so yes I think it does matter very much.

Certain PUFAs are essential for proper biological function -- unless you want your hair to fall out, skin to crack -- and have a host of other issues.

 

And if you have a healthy low body fat %, and a proper fatty acid metabolism due to exercise and a low carb diet, the fat in your adipose cells is constantly turning over.

 

Fat only stays in adipose tissues in people who consume too many carbohydrates.

 

In the absence of carbohydrates, the body mobilizes fatty acids for energy from the fat stored in adipose tissue.

Edited by sensei, 12 March 2015 - 09:07 PM.

[misterE]

True. PUFAs are vital, but since they are ubiquitous, deficency is rare. As far as increasing fat-turnover, that is something that occurs at a rapid rate in diabetes, due to a lack or resistance to: insulin, which normally would inhibit lipolysis, lower FFAs and reduce fatty-acid turnover, however this doesn't happen with the diabetic or insulin-resistant individual.

Edited by misterE, 12 March 2015 - 09:51 PM.

[sensei]

True. PUFAs are vital, but since they are ubiquitous, deficency is rare. As far as increasing fat-turnover, that is something that occurs at a rapid rate in diabetes, due to a lack or resistance to: insulin, which normally would inhibit lipolysis, lower FFAs and reduce fatty-acid turnover, however this doesn't happen with the diabetic or insulin-resistant individual.

 

 

Fat diabetics (type 2) (the majority of diabetics) do not turn fat over, instead they tend to gain it.

[misterE]

 

 

 

Fat diabetics (type 2) (the majority of diabetics) do not turn fat over, instead they tend to gain it.

 

 

Well sure, they gain it ectopically. They don't gain it in the adipocytes, where it is suppose to go.

[sensei]

 

 

 

 

Fat diabetics (type 2) (the majority of diabetics) do not turn fat over, instead they tend to gain it.

 

 

Well sure, they gain it ectopically. They don't gain it in the adipocytes, where it is suppose to go.

 

Nope it is stored in the adipocytes.

 

Increased epicardial adipose tissue (EAT) volume in type 2 diabetes mellitus and association with metabolic syndrome and severity of coronary atherosclerosis.

 

"The analytical results indicate that EAT volume is increased in T2DM patients and is associated with unfavourable components of MetS and coronary atherosclerosis."

 

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/18778397

[misterE]

I believe we are both right on this one. Insulin stores fat within the adipocytes, as this happens the adipocyte enlarges, which is fine, but eventually they enlarge so much that they become dysfunctional... that is where the problems begin and that is the true pathology of type-2 diabetes. Look here sensei, tell me what you make of this:

 

 

Int J Clin Pract Suppl. 2004 Oct;(143):9-21.

 

Dysfunctional fat cells, lipotoxicity and type 2 diabetes.

 

DeFronzo RA^.

 

Abstract

 

Type 2 diabetes is characterized by insulin resistance and impaired insulin secretion. Considerable evidence implicates altered fat topography and defects in adipocyte metabolism in the pathogenesis of type 2 diabetes. In individuals who develop type 2 diabetes, fat cells tend to be enlarged. Enlarged fat cells are resistant to the antilipolytic effects of insulin, leading to day-long elevated plasma free fatty acid (FFA) levels. Chronically increased plasma FFA stimulates gluconeogenesis, induces hepatic and muscle insulin resistance, and impairs insulin secretion in genetically predisposed individuals. These FFA-induced disturbances are referred to as lipotoxicity. Enlarged fat cells also have diminished capacity to store fat. When adipocyte storage capacity is exceeded, lipid 'overflows' into muscle and liver, and possibly the beta-cells of the pancreas, exacerbating insulin resistance and further impairing insulin secretion. In addition, dysfunctional fat cells produce excessive amounts of insulin resistance-inducing, inflammatory and atherosclerosis-provoking cytokines, and fail to secrete normal amounts of insulin-sensitizing cytokines. As more evidence emerges, there is a stronger case for targeting adipose tissue in the treatment of type 2 diabetes. Peroxisome-proliferator activated receptor gamma (PPARgamma) agonists, for example the thiazolidinediones, redistribute fat within the body (decrease visceral and hepatic fat; increase subcutaneous fat) and have been shown to enhance adipocyte insulin sensitivity, inhibit lipolysis, reduce plasma FFA and favourably influence the production of adipocytokines. This article examines in detail the role of adipose tissue in the pathogenesis of type 2 diabetes and highlights the potential of PPAR agonists to improve the management of patients with the condition.

 

Edited by misterE, 13 March 2015 - 04:32 AM.

[sensei]

Perhaps.

 

 

[DanielEdward]

Theoretical questions:

If we are only meant to eat nuts at certain times of the year, why do they store so well? It's not as if they degrade quickly like seasonal fruit/ veg.

If the PUFAs in nuts are a problem, why have studies found that walnuts reduce diabetes risk?

[misterE]

Theoretical questions:

If we are only meant to eat nuts at certain times of the year, why do they store so well? It's not as if they degrade quickly like seasonal fruit/ veg.

If the PUFAs in nuts are a problem, why have studies found that walnuts reduce diabetes risk?

 

They store well because they come in shells, keeping them away from light and oxygen, but also because they are now kept frozen... trust me I know, my Father works for Fischer-nuts. Nut consumption was virtually zilch back in 1900, restricted only for seasonal eating; now due to modern technology we are able to eat nuts out of season, all year long!

 

Fruits and vegetables degrade because of their water content, dehydrate fruit and it will last for a VERY long time, whereas nuts would eventually go rancid, due to their unsaturation.

 

Certain PUFAs are worse than the others, for instance the real bad-boy is arachidonic-acid, this is found exclusively in animal-fats: mainly egg-yolks, poultry-fat and pig-fat, also in farmed-raised fish. Linoleic-acid (LA) ,which is found exclusively in plants and in high concentrations in vegetable-oils, nuts, seeds and avocadoes, isn't as bad or harmful as arachidonic-acid (AA). So if you take some random American off the street and get them to trade in their hot-dogs, fried-chicken and pepperoni (all full of AA) for walnuts (which doesn't contain AA), you are going to see a benefit.

 

Most vegans have awful LA to ALA ratios (because they gorge on avocadoes and peanut-butter), but since they are not eating premade AA from animal-fats, they actually have a better EPA to AA ratio. I personally believe it is best to lower AA consumption and also lower LA consumption, eating nuts, although enjoyable is going to make that more difficult.

 

But if you do eat nuts, eat macadamias because their PUFA content is so low, that is will hardly effect your ratio in any significant way.

Edited by misterE, 05 June 2015 - 02:58 AM.