12 replies to this topic

[Saffron]

If there is one thing that affects mental health which is not directly neurobiological or biological in general, its sociability. Human Sociability is getting much worse. Sociopathy, Autism & Narcissism is increasing, as if it wasn't already bad enough in previous decades & centuries. More people are forced into loneliness against their will & sustained best efforts. Pathological Lying & Cheating is up. Love-Fraud is up. Backstabbing is up. Befriending is down, Marriage is down. Empathy & Vocabulary is down. Heres a seemingly funny one; Even skull shirts are up, dozens upon dozens of death-worship & darkness-based symbolism clothing in all stores

There is no substitute for forced isolation except to end forced isolation. A person cannot adapt, cope or take drugs to fix that problem if the person suffers (many dont) The amount of suffering and ill affect on mental health from isolation varies from person to person depending if they how autistic, average or hyper-social they are. Of those 3 trait markers of a sociability spectrum, hyper-social is most rare, Autism is up to at least 1 in 166 births, but thats just clear cases from asperger's to severe. Its more like most the population (more than 1 in 2) to a lessor degrees than Asperger's is. You will also note many people posting "I am alone by choice" or "I have less of a social life by choice". There are tons of posts on other forums of people saying something paraphrased along those lines in threads about Friendships, Family, Love, Social Life.

Heres an except from the Hedonistic Imperative regarding ideal human sociability:

http://empathogens.com

Quasi-psychopathic callousness forms part of 'normal' archaic mental health.

It is considered normal to be sociopathic to some degree & not have the normal human consciousness in terms of socability let-alone in intelligence, perception & general well-being. The population is broken and it is getting more broken. No one has the normal human consciousness, but since there is no frame of reference for what a true-normality would be, this sub-par & dark kali-yuga-like state humanity is in will be considered the norm.



http://www.nbcnews.com/id/7008380/

Oh wait, now its 1 in 88 who have autism, (and like another 86 who are semi-autistic, semi-sociopathic and 1 or 2 normal people)

http://www.foxnews.c...sm-cdc-reports/

Edited by Saffron, 09 March 2014 - 12:54 PM.

[Saffron]

Follow Up Questions:

Anyone consider themselves a hyper-sociable?

Anyone see how humanity is getting worse and worse each passing year?

Anyone starting to think The Vedic Kali-Yuga Myth might be real, or Gnostic Mitigated Dualism might be real? Sure looks like it or resembles it even if not real!

Anyone ever take a nootropic, supplement, drug & then felt more normal on a social level temporarily?

Anyone ever see someone drink alcohol or take something, then temporarily not be ultra-inhibited thinking everything is awkward, then when it wears off they go back to being ultra inhibited and feel like everything is awkward & become dark & mean again?

Ever encounter someone who isnt an alcoholic, but is super-inhibited & gives off a sense of cocky evil 24/7 unless they drink alcohol?

Do you realize this quote is 100% true?

"Quasi-psychopathic callousness forms part of 'normal' archaic mental health." - David Pearce

Edited by Saffron, 09 March 2014 - 01:01 PM.

[sant2060]

I think you might suffer from depression...and your brain is playing tricks with you, giving you pretty biased insight in human nature and current state.
Although human race is far from perfect, we actually have a privilege to live in pretty fine times.
There are a lot of assholes out there, but also there is HUGE number of high quality people. Much bigger than any time in history.
Try to avoid reading news (very strong bias towards bad things), try not to form final conclusions just from surfing on few specialised forums, and try to mingle at least casually around people...you will start noticing that, although nobody is even near perfect, lots and lots of people are at least bearable, and plenty are actually very good by all standards.

Most of us feel at least a bit awkward in new social situations, of course, life would probably be a bit more simple and pleasurable without that, but that is normal...in the end we all find a group of people we can connect and relate to. Extroversion is a bit more favoured in today western culture, but you can actually have a very pleasant and meaningful life being a bit introverted...just try to avoid ruminating and thinking too negatively about it.

All in all, there is nothing seriously wrong with people today, avoid thinking in that direction. Even if it was, you cannot change it. But between seven billion souls, there sure are 4-5 that you can relate to and enjoy their company :D

[nupi]

+1 to what sant2060 says.

I have a pretty grim view of society but even so, I have to admit that the adage of never attribute to malice what can properly be attribute by stupidity is largely true. Also, as a strong introvert, I have made peace with the fact that a lot of stuff that society considers "fun" just isn't for me (parties with a lot of people being the most obvious case). As long as you can get rid of the fear of missing out (I guess I am lucky in hardly ever even thinking about that [1]), no real harm done by ignoring what society thinks is fun. I am sort of on the fence when it comes to romantic/sexual relationship but almost invariably come down on the side of it not being worth the trouble for me. Oh and related to one of your points above, I don't think there is any reasonable case to be made for getting married [2].

Now, if you could point me to a sustainable empathogen, I'd definitely be interested to try but suffice to say, I won't be holding my breath.

[1] I also learned to minimize the triggers that make me think about it.
[2] One possible exception: if one (or both) party needs another passport. But that's largely an artifact of a somewhat bizarre legal system.

Edited by nupi, 09 March 2014 - 07:50 PM.

[Saffron]

I think you might suffer from depression...and your brain is playing tricks with you, giving you pretty biased insight in human nature and current state.
Although human race is far from perfect, we actually have a privilege to live in pretty fine times.
There are a lot of assholes out there, but also there is HUGE number of high quality people. Much bigger than any time in history.
Try to avoid reading news (very strong bias towards bad things), try not to form final conclusions just from surfing on few specialised forums, and try to mingle at least casually around people...you will start noticing that, although nobody is even near perfect, lots and lots of people are at least bearable, and plenty are actually very good by all standards.

Most of us feel at least a bit awkward in new social situations, of course, life would probably be a bit more simple and pleasurable without that, but that is normal...in the end we all find a group of people we can connect and relate to. Extroversion is a bit more favoured in today western culture, but you can actually have a very pleasant and meaningful life being a bit introverted...just try to avoid ruminating and thinking too negatively about it.

All in all, there is nothing seriously wrong with people today, avoid thinking in that direction. Even if it was, you cannot change it. But between seven billion souls, there sure are 4-5 that you can relate to and enjoy their company :D

Im talking about something truly objective & real here, and you simply are so blind to it, you think its a subjective distorted thought. You can't make this kind of stuff up from false perceptions, I could give a hundred solid examples where its impossible to hallucinate those examples.

Youre mixing up perceptual problems, like someone hallucinating that they are receiving dirty looks when they really arent, with real objective problems I am speaking of. Typical fail reply. What im talking about is whats responsible for all the war in human history, for the crime rate, for statistics of less people married than ever before with divorce up, for things like a walkers being screamed at by people in cars OVER 50 TIMES and having eggs thrown at the person.

You really fail if you cant see how socially broken humanity is and am mixing up my post with distorted thoughts and false perceptions, such as seeing hidden messages that arent their, confirmation bias, and other delusions & hallucinations. there ARE no true extroverts, hardly, those are all Pseudo-social people, not social people.

I can give you a hundred examples of how messed up people are not, that are all examples where its literally impossible to hallucinate or thought-disorder, things objective as saying "the increase in child rape is bad"

Edited by Saffron, 10 March 2014 - 01:55 AM.

[tritium]

You might just be living in a tough neighborhood. For example, I have noticed a world of difference in positive sociability when moving between cities which are between 100-500 miles apart. Some cities are much more friendly than others. Perhaps you might consider moving?

[Saffron]

You might just be living in a tough neighborhood. For example, I have noticed a world of difference in positive sociability when moving between cities which are between 100-500 miles apart. Some cities are much more friendly than others. Perhaps you might consider moving?

No its been exactly the same for me everywhere I ever lived and its the same with long-distance known people as it is with people I have met and/or knew locally. Even a woman I lived with for 3 months who was born & raised in sweden, then lived in the US for the recent years was almost identical to an American save for a mild accent. Europeans ive known online are nearly identical to americans have have the same flakiness or else same lack of common ground with me.

I thank you for the reply though. I do not believe there is a such thing as friendly city in the world. at least not friendly to myself. besides if there was, that city would be the subject of studies and papers as to why it has a low crime rate, why its divorce rate is only 10% VS 55% mean, why there is a significant deviation in statistics thats more than a 10% threshold. Earth-Humans are Earth-Humans.

I have a higher threshold of what constitutes "different". For instance we can use nations & politics as an example since its easier to express than sociability. All nations on Earth are barely different from each other politically. especially all western ones to each other, or all eastern ones to each other. All have almost the exact same laws. All are authoritarian collectivist. All have Parliaments & heads of states, same exact formula of governance with little variation. All have government agencies that have lists of controlled substances or tax policies or how to licenses drivers, fishers, getting married, business or anything else that needs a government license where you have to get permission from the government in the form of their licenses.

Every nation on Earth is Authoritarian collectivist. Theres not one libertarian nation. Theres almost no difference between left & right politics in nations. Governments have even killed 262 million people, excluding war, in recent history. Democide wasnt limited to one or two nations. But remember, we are just using government as an analogy because it would be easier to show than to describe the social natures which would be much harder to quickly type. It just goes to show you how there is no significant differences among any place on earth. There is also no significant differences in terms of time either, The mainstream 6,000 years of human history is "about-the-same" Like pepsi & coke.

Edited by Saffron, 12 March 2014 - 07:53 AM.

[shp5]

You might just be living in a tough neighborhood. For example, I have noticed a world of difference in positive sociability when moving between cities which are between 100-500 miles apart. Some cities are much more friendly than others. Perhaps you might consider moving?

No its been exactly the same for me everywhere I ever lived and its the same with long-distance known people as it is with people I have met and/or knew locally. Even a woman I lived with for 3 months who was born & raised in sweden, then lived in the US for the recent years was almost identical to an American save for a mild accent. Europeans ive known online are nearly identical to americans have have the same flakiness or else same lack of common ground with me.

Though I concur that people might get less sociable (today, there are lots of easy, cheap & addictive alternatives to being sociable) there are definite differences in culture between places. Here in Austria, it is striking how much friendlier people can be in rural areas (not everywhere, as usual). If you cant see differences, my guess is that you are biased for one reason or another.

Also, social ties are of paramount importance for health, and one has to tough it out and force himself to be more sociable if he's antisociable and interested in longevity.

[adamh]

I think there is truth to what Saffron says but I don't think its some sort of apocalyptic event. When people lived in small villages, they tended to be more open and have more empathy. As the world became more crowded, people learned to distrust and for good reason. Someone who is too open and trusting will be taken advantage of a lot and be hurt a lot. Back when everyone was a friend or someone you knew, there were good reasons not to be an asshole. When the great majority of the people you encounter are strangers, its easier to justify antisocial behavior.

People choose to be alone for many reasons. Few will want to be alone all the time but its good to be able to sort out your thoughts without constant interactions with others. People often carve out their niche, be it a study, place in the woods, a workshop or whatever, where they can be by themselves on occasion. For some it may be the bathroom, if thats all they've got. You don't need an excuse to shut the door in the bathroom.

It used to be that raising children was vital for the survival of your group. That is no longer the case and overpopulation has gotten to be a problem. So the need to get married and raise children is not vital, its more of a matter of preference and those who chose not to reproduce may be doing the rest of us a favor. Unfortunately, it often seems like the wrong ones choose to be parents and have the most kids. But thats another topic.

Then you have all the artificial chemicals and additives put into our food supply, plus gmo's plus pollution in the air and water, even to the point of putting poisons deliberately in the water. These things have an effect as does the fast pace of today's society. Its a wonder more of us don't go nuts.

[Saffron]

You have to understand I believe this thread is very awkward, i know that -- its very difficult to come back to this thread because its awkward.

Im fully aware of how awkward this thread is but im sorry to say this is the truth. Ive even had two women in 1999 and 2005 have amnesia and tell me they never said they were in Love with me and never said other things, when they did. I can name about 100 very sick things that 100 people did to me besides two relationships where they had amnesia after cheating on me and dumping for other men. but its so absurd it would sound like im making it up because the odds are so slim of that. to just have every person you meet be evil, sociopathic and use you, and do extreme things, it would be hard for people to believe. because its like the odds of getting struck by lightening twice.

but I think maybe i posted this in the wrong category and it should have been in one of the bottom sub forums - sorry about that. But yeah, aside from personal experiences -- the topic of changes in human sociability in general is very interesting -- it ties in with changes with human intelligence and nootropics which is an interest here.

Edited by Saffron, 20 March 2014 - 07:37 AM.

[Saffron]

People choose to be alone for many reasons.

by the way, what do you or anyone else think, if anything, about people who do NOT choose to be alone, but are alone by force?

What i mean be forced alone is if a person does maximum effort over maximum time, and gets no results, cannot find any friends, cannot find any Love, cant have a family of his or her own, no matter how many hundreds of people met year after year after year, using all different ways to meet people

Like, meeting 300+ people over years, and no one likes you, no one relates to you, no one is compatible with you, no one is similar enough to you in "vibe" to be interested and thus you are forced, against the will, into isolation

Forced, against all best efforts, trying everything possible, trying dating sites, social sites, going out alone to all kinds of places, joining groups, everything -- just trying everything a person can, yet FORCED against the will, into loneliness with no friends, no family, no Love, no one to talk to except walls.

What do i think of it? its a very sick problem for anyone to have because that's a person who's life is destroyed even though that person is making honest good efforts and being the best person he can be, and being himself.

Forced Loneliness is a dilemma, because every effort over decades fails and the person stays alone .. and because there is no substitute for ending loneliness. You cant take any drug or do any hobby or anything alone to get relief from forced-loneliness. it simply doesnt work because there is no substitutes and the suffering stays the same.

Dont flame me for this, if someone does sustained maximum effort over maximum time, trying their very best years on end, and seeing if not trying helps, doing everything humanly possible, and getting Zero Results, by definition is forced. therefore that person is forced into loneliness.

Edited by Saffron, 20 March 2014 - 08:03 AM.

[tritium]

I have had very similar experiences. Do you think your personality is different than most people around you? Do you see other people around you having the same problem? I, myself, have found that it has been more difficult to communicate with most people below my intelligence now with a graduate degree. However, I think it's best not to try to assimilate to be like other people; just be yourself or else there will be cognitive dissonance. I still think you may have luck in other cities (central limit theorem ftw).

[Saffron]

I have had very similar experiences. Do you think your personality is different than most people around you? Do you see other people around you having the same problem? I, myself, have found that it has been more difficult to communicate with most people below my intelligence now with a graduate degree. However, I think it's best not to try to assimilate to be like other people; just be yourself or else there will be cognitive dissonance. I still think you may have luck in other cities (central limit theorem ftw).

Yeah #1 a person has to relate to another person and vice versa for the two to befriend

some people have a personlity where man will relate and they have a lot to choose from. some people have where less relate therefore less to choose from .. some people cant find a single person who relates to him or her, therefore has no one to choose from and is forced alone against the will.

So that would include being an honest, moral and social person, who is just being himself, and meeting hundreds of people, but is forced alone against all efforts because no one relates to him. SO thats a wrong that should exist but unfortunately exists. Its like crime, tornadoes, earth quakes, corrupt politicians - its just another thing that shouldn't exist but unfortunately exists. No one should be forced into loneliness just from being themselves and meeting hundreds of people.

#2 the population has a really low IQ and low vocabulary -- they are getting worse and worse each year to the point where nearly all my sentences or spoken statements are misunderstood.

Like someone could reply to this thread and say they are sorry to see me choose to be alone and not meet anyone, and they personally prefer to go out and be social, even though i said like 6 times its forced and i med hundred of people.

Or another person might reply and say "you should Love yourself, it helps a lot" when i said the issue is isolation and lack of human contact not, one self-hating who should self-love. its really bizarre now, i get all kinds of replies from people where they misunderstand my simple text

and the population is very uninformed in general. they are also programmed to feel awkward about nearly any topic except the weather, sports & gossip.



ahh... just to answer your question, yes my personality is PROFOUNDLY different from all those around me, im the opposite in about 100 different ways

I could take a notepad file and make a list of 100 different things where Im the exact opposite of other people, if i wanted to do this and had the energy to. Its like being some sort of Mr Opposite Man.

Edited by Saffron, 23 March 2014 - 02:42 AM.