21 replies to this topic

[caveoli]

What are your thoughts on parents giving their children nootropics in order to enhance their academic performance?

[enemy]

From my not-too-distant recollections of elementary school and high school, success in those areas was not strictly dependent upon problem-solving ability, or some specialized mental capability.

Realistically, if one simply paid attention in classes, one would receive favorable performance marks.

Thus, I'm not sure how useful a chemical like pyritinol would be for a 4th grader. What I can conclusively say, however, is that maximum sleep (8+ hours, emphasis on plus, for a developing brain) prior to study is integral, probably vitally so. Furthermore, a decent vitamin could not possibly hurt the situation.

If the kid has legitimate ADHD (and does just "not like school") then there are pharmaceutical remedies.

My one and a half cents...

[eternaltraveler]

I don't agree with the diagnosis of ADHD. As it seems to primarly coinside with the diagnosis of being a child.

I wouldn't recommend anything other than perhaps a little fish oil to a child without any specific issues.

[zoolander]

I agree with both enemy and elrond. It is important that a child has a good diet and enjoys life.

Im 34 and still enjoy the life of a child. Im an academic and sometimes the 2 clash



hehehehe

[enemy]

A long time ago, somebody posted that ADHD is like "trying to build a house of cards in a sandstorm."

I can honestly say I've never experienced anything like that, but that does not mean such a malady does not exist.

There are likely many children with "youthful exuberance" misdiagnosed as ADHD. But for those with legitimate mental turmoil described like a sandstorm in your head, then a treatment of some kind is in order.

Here's a "smart drug" treatment for a kid: Get him/her off the sugar soda and on either (best case) water or otherwise diet. I wish I had known that little tidbit 10 years ago...

[zoolander]

I can't help thinking of the south park episode where the doctor reads the children of south park moby dick. The doctor reads for hours and hours and then asked a really abstract question. Of course the kids are confused and can't answer so he prescribes riddalin. They need to take riddlaloff to get help with their addiction to riddalin.

The marketing for adderal and riddalin makes me sick. I saw an advert the other day for adderal. There was a child sitting on some steps with a baseball glove looking happy and relaxed. The statement at the top of the ad read "Has your child done their homework?"

So they are saying that if your child take adderal then you will have more time to throw ball and the father/mother and son relationship will be better?

Fuck I just want to throw up right now and punch a hole in the wall at the same time. But lucky for me I am taking the new ANTIEMETIC DRUG ALOXI as well as VOLPORATE (an SSRI) for anger management. [thumb] [thumb]

[LifeMirage]

Many Nootropics have been studied in children for enhancing various aspects of Cognition. I would recommend it if you want your child to have the best edge they can get.

Nootropics are mainly used for those who wish to maximize their mental capacity.

I see no reason not to give some of them to kids as any tool to help them work more effectively.

I’ve given several nootropics to kids over the years with and without learning and/or attention issues.

Be sure to consult someone before doing so to get the proper dosing.

Diet and Exercise are obviously very important. I would recommend nootropics preferably after making healthy diet changes.

[REGIMEN]

Discipline and Diet before Drugs

[wannafulfill]

Discipline and Diet before Drugs

I agree, and the point isn't stressed enough. My opinion is that drugs can't make a healthy person smarter by any meaningful measure, but they might facilitate the process of learning.

[LifeMirage]

My opinion is that drugs can't make a healthy person smarter by any meaningful measure, but they might facilitate the process of learning.

This is where I would disagree with you.

I have an excellent diet, no health disorders, a fair amount of exercise, and a high IQ.

Nootropics have made quite an impressive enhancement of my cognitive functions noticed by others and myself.

As well as verified by EEG, PET, and several other proven testing methods.

While I would not use the term “smarter” an enhancement of various aspects of cognition (memory, learning, processing) would be a better way to put it.

The extent can’t always be measure by the person self-analysis. Independent testing is the only way to access the particular areas and level of improvement.

Yours In Health

[lemon]

Omega 3's are critical for a growing brain. You can't make them. If children don't ingest them the fluidity of their brain cells are several magnitudes less due to usage of a replacement fatty acid the body creates in-lieu of Omega 3's (specifically DHA).

Children should be eating fatty (especially cold water fatty fish) or taking pharmaceutical grade fish oil.

This is more important than a basic multivitamin as the vitamins and minerals are obtained in foods either naturally or through fortification to a greater or lesser extent.

Omega 3's, on the otherhand, are relatively scarce in foods and are not being fortified (well... that may be changing somewhat as some chickens are being fed flax seed but I digress...).

[caveoli]

Great input everyone! Thanks.

[enemy]

Hold up Lifemirage,

Do you claim that a regimen of drugs from the family of "nootropics" results in a real, measureable increase in a standard intelligence test, say the Wechsler or Stanford-Binet?

If so, can you substantiate or is this conjecture at this point? I know you're cooking up some sort of experiment along these lines...

[REGIMEN]

Just remember that they may be your kids, but it's their body. They have to live with the results of your tinkering for the rest of their lives. Be careful, do months of research, and possibly test some out on yourself before prescribing your children on nootropics. Make it a family affair.

[LifeMirage]

Hold up Lifemirage,

Do you claim that a regimen of drugs from the family of "nootropics" results in a real, measureable increase in a standard intelligence test, say the Wechsler or Stanford-Binet?

Its not a claim, nootropics have been studied in healthy humans to improve various aspects of IQ, why do you think they are called "Smart Drugs". While no one has done a study on a complete IQ test (given the cost and time about $500/10 hours), I've given Nootropics to people over the past 10 years and have had at least 250 people do a IQ test before and after taking nootropics with very clear results. While it won't improve every part of the testing in every case the total points went up.

If so, can you substantiate or is this conjecture at this point? I know you're cooking up some sort of experiment along these lines...

I've already post studies on this...see Nootropics Research. Nootropics have been shown to improve brain functioning and been studied in subsets of IQ tests.

Why don't you take one for yourself?

Yours In Health

[enemy]

I think I can recall taking some kind of test years and years ago, maybe in pre-kindergarten? I took that mensa test too, but they refused to tell me how I scored.

Elaborate on which portions of the test are improved and which are unaffected please.

[LifeMirage]

I think I can recall taking some kind of test years and years ago, maybe in pre-kindergarten? I took that mensa test too, but they refused to tell me how I scored.

Umm, you need a more recent test.

Elaborate on which portions of the test are improved and which are unaffected please.

The extent varies per person and nootropic, but most areas were improved.

[LifeMirage]

While a Clinical study is needed to firmly establish the full effects, I have seen more than enough people respond & the research on nootropics & cognition to be convinced.

Still taking anyone personal info if interested in being in the study by the way.

[enemy]

LM-

I thought IQ, by definition, was a strictly a childhood assessment.

When you say there is a measurable effect on a standardized intelligence test, you say that with respect to the average human (IQ 100), is this premise correct?

Thus, as the baseline intellect of an individual increases, say to an IQ 150, the statistical impact of a nootropic will decrease? Is this also reasonable?

Example:
Person #1) I take an exam. I have an IQ of 100. I take some pills. I take a different exam. I have an IQ of 110. Thus a 10% increase.

Person #2) I take an exam. I have an IQ of 150. I take some pills. I take a new exam. I have an IQ of 155. Thus a ~3% increase.

Basically, my question is: at what point on the normal distribution does the statistical impact of a nootropic regimen become trivial? Or even detrimental?

[johnmk]

A very interesting question to ask.

[enemy]

Quasi-bump.

Anyone have any revelations, or input of any kind here?

[LifeMirage]

LM-

I thought IQ, by definition, was a strictly a childhood assessment.

No.

When you say there is a measurable effect on a standardized intelligence test, you say that with respect to the average human (IQ 100), is this premise correct?

Yes

Thus, as the baseline intellect of an individual increases, say to an IQ 150, the statistical impact of a nootropic will decrease?

No.

Is this also reasonable?

Not really, unless you believe the human mind is limited to a certain IQ #.

Example:
Person #1) I take an exam. I have an IQ of 100. I take some pills. I take a different exam. I have an IQ of 110. Thus a 10% increase.

Person #2) I take an exam. I have an IQ of 150. I take some pills. I take a new exam. I have an IQ of 155. Thus a ~3% increase.

Basically, my question is: at what point on the normal distribution does the statistical impact of a nootropic regimen become trivial?

unknown.

Or even detrimental?

highly unlikely using reasonable doses.