17 replies to this topic

[Ritchie]

Hello,

I have Severe ADHD, Anxiety, Depression and Mild Panic Disorders.

I also have a very sensitive stomach.

I have been trying to find ways to treat my disorders without having to use conventional treatments (psychostimulants) as they evoke terrible side effects in me and I see them as damaging.

 

Currently I have tried:

 

                Caffeine: Does Not Work and really worsens my anxiety and panic disorder.

 

                All Racetams: Work very well for the first 1-3 days, but then all of a sudden completely stops    working. Almost like I develop a tolerance that never goes away.

 

                Various Choline Precursors (Choline Bitartate, CDP-Choline, Alpha GPC etc): They help, but so mildly that any benefit I get could be placebo effects.

 

                Modafinil: Worsens my anxiety and gave me a Fever and a Rash.

 

                L-tyrosine: Makes me very angry and causes me to sweat profusely, it does not improve any of my disorders.

 

                Rhodiola: Tried for 3 months, no effects.

 

                Bacopa: Tried once and it caused vomiting and painful diarrhea. No improvement in my disorders.

 

                AlCAR: No effects.

 

                Kava Kava: Makes me feel drunk. Does not improve my ADHD but does help with anxiety and depression. However the muscle relaxation and sedation makes it very difficult to do anything.

 

                Ritalin: Cures my ADHD and depression but makes me extremely anxious/paranoid. The crash from Ritalin makes me very suicidal and has made me come very close to suicide multiple times.

 

                Coca Leaf: Helps tremendously with all my disorders. Makes it easier to focus especially with long term use. Makes anxiety more bearable and has cured my panic disorder. I have also noticed that it gives me a sort of clean stimulation that does not increase anxiety and panic attacks like caffeine and Ritalin does. In fact it has proven very helpful for reducing stress and has improved my digestive health as it has very strong anti-nauseant and anti-diarrhea effects.

 

Currently I am only taking Coca leaf in the form of Coca tea or chewing. Even though it has helped tremendously, I still sometimes find it to be not enough and I still do have troubles focusing as well as hyperactivity (Always Pacing, Fidgeting in place, cannot stand still etc.).

 

I have currently been looking into other herbs/supplements to try.

So far I have been looking at Mucuna Pruriens and Chinese skullcap.

 

 Mucuna contains the direct precursors to both dopamine and serotonin.

 

Chinese skullcap contains Oroxylin A(A Potent Dopamine Reuptake Inhibitor) and Wogonin(Has an anti-anxiety effect without producing sedation or muscle relaxation).

 

Have any of you had any success using either one of these herbs for the disorders I have?

 

Also Is there any other supplements/herbs that you guys recommend that I try?

 

Thanks.

Edited by Ritchie, 27 April 2014 - 03:01 AM.

[Keizo]

I have some similar problems. Diagnosed with adhd, and have been a rather anxious person my entire life. For anxiety, depression and related problems I can suggest Cerebrolysin. Probably the most effective thing you will find. You can read the thread on it. It has some effect on the GABA-system among other things, without the problems associated with e.g. benzodiazepines.

 

Recently I've been using Inositol. I can not give a real conclusion on it since I started taking wellbutrin on top of it, and maybe the effects of zink & vitmain D have built up over the months.

It could have an effect on dopamine-receptors. http://www.bluelight...ion-in-striatum And apparently help with depression & anxiety.

 

Vitamin D has some clear effects for me regarding mood, by the way. Been using it for a while.

Magnesium also helps a little bit with anxiety.

It seems to be a good suggestion to supplement with magnesium and vitamin-d, since apparently so many are deficient.

 

 

In the future I am going to try gynostemma/jiaogulan

(I just started reading about it).

Here are a couple of studies, I don't know how relevant they might be:

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/20428081

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/24747613

[Duchykins]

The most mundane and yet extremely important supplements for brain and mental health:

Magnesium
Zinc (50mg)
Calcium
D3 (up to 2000 IU)
B vitamins

Avoid zinc oxide, look for citrates or gluconates


A little bit more special for your case:

Taurine (500mg up to 2g)
Lysine (1g)
Theanine (100-300mg)
CoQ10 (50-200mg)

Maybe half of a valerian root capsule at bedtime. Maybe.

An omega 3 source with about twice as much EPA as DHA. Don't exceed 1.5g of fish oil if that is your source choice.



From that list of supplements and your reactions to them, it seems your issue may be more about GABA being overwhelmed than serotonin.

In the future, avoid the stimulants like caffeine and amphetamines. Perhaps try green tea in the place of coffee next time, or a dark chocolate that is at least 70% cacao.


If you are having a hidden methylation issue behind the attention deficit, then your reaction to a B complex may be different than normal. If your reaction is negative then you should get a few separate Bs, take either B12 and folic acid (folate) together **or** P-5-P (B6). Not all three in the same day. Don't get a B complex with copper in it (many of the 'stress formulas' have it) and don't take a multivitamin with more than 1mg copper in it.

[Ritchie]

I have some similar problems. Diagnosed with adhd, and have been a rather anxious person my entire life. For anxiety, depression and related problems I can suggest Cerebrolysin. Probably the most effective thing you will find. You can read the thread on it. It has some effect on the GABA-system among other things, without the problems associated with e.g. benzodiazepines.

 

Recently I've been using Inositol. I can not give a real conclusion on it since I started taking wellbutrin on top of it, and maybe the effects of zink & vitmain D have built up over the months.

It could have an effect on dopamine-receptors. http://www.bluelight...ion-in-striatum And apparently help with depression & anxiety.

 

Vitamin D has some clear effects for me regarding mood, by the way. Been using it for a while.

Magnesium also helps a little bit with anxiety.

It seems to be a good suggestion to supplement with magnesium and vitamin-d, since apparently so many are deficient.

 

 

In the future I am going to try gynostemma/jiaogulan

(I just started reading about it).

Here are a couple of studies, I don't know how relevant they might be:

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/20428081

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/24747613

I forgot to mention, I have tried Inositol and it gave me nausea and a headache.

I have been taking magnesium and zinc supplements pretty much my entire life(Even as a baby) and I'm not sure if it has caused my disorders or simply does not do anything.

I get a lot of sunlight, so I'm not sure if Vitamin D would help.

Still, I'll give it a try.

 

I've been looking at jiaogulan, but It was to my understanding that it simply reversed damage from heavy stimulants use, would it be effective for me?

 

[Ritchie]

The most mundane and yet extremely important supplements for brain and mental health:

Magnesium
Zinc (50mg)
Calcium
D3 (up to 2000 IU)
B vitamins

Avoid zinc oxide, look for citrates or gluconates


A little bit more special for your case:

Taurine (500mg up to 2g)
Lysine (1g)
Theanine (100-300mg)
CoQ10 (50-200mg)

Maybe half of a valerian root capsule at bedtime. Maybe.

An omega 3 source with about twice as much EPA as DHA. Don't exceed 1.5g of fish oil if that is your source choice.



From that list of supplements and your reactions to them, it seems your issue may be more about GABA being overwhelmed than serotonin.

In the future, avoid the stimulants like caffeine and amphetamines. Perhaps try green tea in the place of coffee next time, or a dark chocolate that is at least 70% cacao.


If you are having a hidden methylation issue behind the attention deficit, then your reaction to a B complex may be different than normal. If your reaction is negative then you should get a few separate Bs, take either B12 and folic acid (folate) together **or** P-5-P (B6). Not all three in the same day. Don't get a B complex with copper in it (many of the 'stress formulas' have it) and don't take a multivitamin with more than 1mg copper in it.

I did take a vitamin B complex and it did not improve any of my symptoms. I don't take calcium supplements but I do drink atleast 1 cup of milk every day.

I do take omega 3 that has 18% EPA and 12% DHA is this suitable?

I'll look into taurine, lysine, theanine and CoQ10.

 

I have tried green tea and it made me more sleepy than stimulated. I'll look into dark chocolate at atleast 70% cacao.

 

[Ritchie]

I have also been looking in to nicotine as a treatment via nicotine gum or an e-cig. I have tried all the mild treamtments such as Rhodiola and I believe I need to look at more aggressive treatment. I don't believe that the treamtment needs to be as aggresive as Adderrall, however.

[Duchykins]

Stop drinking dairy milk, and one cup wouldn't get you your day's worth anyway. My little brother, myself, my daughter and my husband all felt better after drastically decreasing our dairy and getting a milk replacement like soy, rice, almond or flax (I prefer soy but my husband like rice). The most notable improvments were in my brother, who was diagnosed with ADHD when he was a child. He also did very well with magnesium, zinc, calcium, P5P a few other things *when he actually stuck to them* but what would often happen is he would start his regimen, start feeling indestructible, and then 'forget' to take his supplements, regress, and then start back on them again. These are *for life*. He is in his mid 20s now and has learned his lesson and keeps to it. He was put on Ritalin when initially diagnosed but taken off after a month due to a sever allergic reaction involving his liver, and he hasn't been on any amphetamines since, and I feel this is a major factor in his not suffering of a lot of the not-awesome things we see accompanying an attention deficit diagnossis and long term amphetamine use, so I agree with you that Adderall isn't necessary.

If you are not already a smoker or have not been one in the past, introducing nicotine would be, in my opinion, really unnecessary and even unwise. No offense. I am myself a former smoker and I currently use an e-cig with e juice that I mix myself. But sometimes I consider stopping that too.

If green tea made you sleepy then perhaps a pure theanine supplement may do the same.

Your omega 3 sounds good, as long as the label individually lists the exact mg of EPA and DHA you're getting per dose, not a collective % but saying "XXXmg EPA" "XXXmg DHA". The brands that don't do this typically manufacture inferior products. Just something to keep in mind when it's time to buy more.


You said inositol gave you headache and nausea. Among other things, inositol enhances serotonin sensitivity. Your reaction to inositol is something worth exploring, I think. It will have to be double checked whether a chemical that enhances sensitivity to a neurotransmitter acheives this by lowering the neurotransmitter level and prompting the body to upregulate receptors ... I remember reading something like this about a different substance doing this with dopamine, and another one doing it with GABA. I can't open another tab in the browser right now without losing everything I've typed so far (I'm using an annoying tablet) so I'll have to look it up after I post this. But IF that is the case with the inositol, then it's a strong indicator that you have inadequate serotonin and the inositol temporarily exacerbated this and triggered a migraine-esque headache or a true migraine. It also may mean that your GABA is too low to boot.

I'll post again later today.

[Ritchie]

Stop drinking dairy milk, and one cup wouldn't get you your day's worth anyway. My little brother, myself, my daughter and my husband all felt better after drastically decreasing our dairy and getting a milk replacement like soy, rice, almond or flax (I prefer soy but my husband like rice). The most notable improvments were in my brother, who was diagnosed with ADHD when he was a child. He also did very well with magnesium, zinc, calcium, P5P a few other things *when he actually stuck to them* but what would often happen is he would start his regimen, start feeling indestructible, and then 'forget' to take his supplements, regress, and then start back on them again. These are *for life*. He is in his mid 20s now and has learned his lesson and keeps to it. He was put on Ritalin when initially diagnosed but taken off after a month due to a sever allergic reaction involving his liver, and he hasn't been on any amphetamines since, and I feel this is a major factor in his not suffering of a lot of the not-awesome things we see accompanying an attention deficit diagnossis and long term amphetamine use, so I agree with you that Adderall isn't necessary.

If you are not already a smoker or have not been one in the past, introducing nicotine would be, in my opinion, really unnecessary and even unwise. No offense. I am myself a former smoker and I currently use an e-cig with e juice that I mix myself. But sometimes I consider stopping that too.

If green tea made you sleepy then perhaps a pure theanine supplement may do the same.

Your omega 3 sounds good, as long as the label individually lists the exact mg of EPA and DHA you're getting per dose, not a collective % but saying "XXXmg EPA" "XXXmg DHA". The brands that don't do this typically manufacture inferior products. Just something to keep in mind when it's time to buy more.


You said inositol gave you headache and nausea. Among other things, inositol enhances serotonin sensitivity. Your reaction to inositol is something worth exploring, I think. It will have to be double checked whether a chemical that enhances sensitivity to a neurotransmitter acheives this by lowering the neurotransmitter level and prompting the body to upregulate receptors ... I remember reading something like this about a different substance doing this with dopamine, and another one doing it with GABA. I can't open another tab in the browser right now without losing everything I've typed so far (I'm using an annoying tablet) so I'll have to look it up after I post this. But IF that is the case with the inositol, then it's a strong indicator that you have inadequate serotonin and the inositol temporarily exacerbated this and triggered a migraine-esque headache or a true migraine. It also may mean that your GABA is too low to boot.

I'll post again later today.

Okay, I'll look into a milk replacement. I heard that pure calcium supplements apparently cause bone problems, so i'll stick to natural sources of calcium for now.

 

Why do you believe that nicotine would be unwise? From the studies I have read, it has the potential to ameliorate symptoms of ADHD, anxiety and depression. It is highly addicitve, but I really don't mind being addictive to a substance if it improves and possible cures all my disorders. To my knowledge, Nicotine shows negligible health damage.

 

I believe green tea made me sleepy because all hot liquids make me sleepy, but it could be the theanine.

 

 

 

[Sciencyst]

I have had the most luck with phenylpiracetam, and caffeine+l-theanine. They have been a wonderful alternative to nasty ADD meds.

[Duchykins]

In you case with your system being excitable *and* coupled with GI problem (a subject relevant to nicotine), a stimulant like nicotine is likely to make everything a lot worse in the long run. The stereotype of the neurotic smoker has some truth behind it and it's not merely because of of health impacts of smoke inhalation; it's the stimulant itself and regular use of it. Nicotine will treat nor cure any of your ailments; the best therapeutic use for nicotine I've read of so far are brain pathologies involving inadequate acetylcholine, extreme memory impairment, and is not the case with you. Do not listen to people advocating that otherwise healthy people begin using nicotine for nootropic or anxiolytic effects; that kind of talk is prompted by what I perceive to be nootropic addiction or psychological addiction to "enhancing" or the cognitive dissonance of ex-smokers now using smokeless nicotine. It's not okay when other avenues have not been traveled first. The logic of it is very poor given our current understanding of nicotine's long term effects on neurotransmitters and receptors, especially serotonin and GABA. Please take this from a current nicotine user.


I didn't look very thoroughly at the inositol, serotonin and GABA connection just yet, just cursory searches. I will read more when I have more time.

Edited by Duchykins, 27 April 2014 - 10:01 PM.

[Ritchie]

In you case with your system being excitable *and* coupled with GI problem (a subject relevant to nicotine), a stimulant like nicotine is likely to make everything a lot worse in the long run. The stereotype of the neurotic smoker has some truth behind it and it's not merely because of of health impacts of smoke inhalation; it's the stimulant itself and regular use of it. Nicotine will treat nor cure any of your ailments; the best therapeutic use for nicotine I've read of so far are brain pathologies involving inadequate acetylcholine, extreme memory impairment, and is not the case with you. Do not listen to people advocating that otherwise healthy people begin using nicotine for nootropic or anxiolytic effects; that kind of talk is prompted by what I perceive to be nootropic addiction or psychological addiction to "enhancing" or the cognitive dissonance of ex-smokers now using smokeless nicotine. It's not okay when other avenues have not been traveled first. The logic of it is very poor given our current understanding of nicotine's long term effects on neurotransmitters and receptors, especially serotonin and GABA. Please take this from a current nicotine user.


I didn't look very thoroughly at the inositol, serotonin and GABA connection just yet, just cursory searches. I will read more when I have more time.

Unfortunately, I've almost exhausted all avenues :(. I assure you I wiil be trying every single other supplement/nootropic beforehand, but when it boils down to it, I rather be on nicotine than ever have to take Ritalin again.

 

What type of health damage do you believe that nicotine causes? It was to my understanding that nicotine may simply cause mild damage to the heart.

[Duchykins]

In you case with your system being excitable *and* coupled with GI problem (a subject relevant to nicotine), a stimulant like nicotine is likely to make everything a lot worse in the long run. The stereotype of the neurotic smoker has some truth behind it and it's not merely because of of health impacts of smoke inhalation; it's the stimulant itself and regular use of it. Nicotine will treat nor cure any of your ailments; the best therapeutic use for nicotine I've read of so far are brain pathologies involving inadequate acetylcholine, extreme memory impairment, and is not the case with you. Do not listen to people advocating that otherwise healthy people begin using nicotine for nootropic or anxiolytic effects; that kind of talk is prompted by what I perceive to be nootropic addiction or psychological addiction to "enhancing" or the cognitive dissonance of ex-smokers now using smokeless nicotine. It's not okay when other avenues have not been traveled first. The logic of it is very poor given our current understanding of nicotine's long term effects on neurotransmitters and receptors, especially serotonin and GABA. Please take this from a current nicotine user.


I didn't look very thoroughly at the inositol, serotonin and GABA connection just yet, just cursory searches. I will read more when I have more time.

Unfortunately, I've almost exhausted all avenues :(. I assure you I wiil be trying every single other supplement/nootropic beforehand, but when it boils down to it, I rather be on nicotine than ever have to take Ritalin again.
 
What type of health damage do you believe that nicotine causes? It was to my understanding that nicotine may simply cause mild damage to the heart.

I don't have beliefs about the damage that nicotine causes to the body, there is simply inadequate knowledge of long term use of smokeless nicotine use. There has been some mild evidence that vaping nicotine has an immediate but temporary adverse effect on the respiratory tract, but to my knowledge that was really only pertinent to chain vapers and people who are allergic to something in the typical bottle of e juice. Maybe blood pressure. Nothing very serious yet.

But that wasn't really my concern about nicotine, I was more concerned about neurotransmitters. I'm not going to argue about further. Go ahead and do it if you are determined to.

[Ritchie]

 

 

In you case with your system being excitable *and* coupled with GI problem (a subject relevant to nicotine), a stimulant like nicotine is likely to make everything a lot worse in the long run. The stereotype of the neurotic smoker has some truth behind it and it's not merely because of of health impacts of smoke inhalation; it's the stimulant itself and regular use of it. Nicotine will treat nor cure any of your ailments; the best therapeutic use for nicotine I've read of so far are brain pathologies involving inadequate acetylcholine, extreme memory impairment, and is not the case with you. Do not listen to people advocating that otherwise healthy people begin using nicotine for nootropic or anxiolytic effects; that kind of talk is prompted by what I perceive to be nootropic addiction or psychological addiction to "enhancing" or the cognitive dissonance of ex-smokers now using smokeless nicotine. It's not okay when other avenues have not been traveled first. The logic of it is very poor given our current understanding of nicotine's long term effects on neurotransmitters and receptors, especially serotonin and GABA. Please take this from a current nicotine user.


I didn't look very thoroughly at the inositol, serotonin and GABA connection just yet, just cursory searches. I will read more when I have more time.

Unfortunately, I've almost exhausted all avenues :(. I assure you I wiil be trying every single other supplement/nootropic beforehand, but when it boils down to it, I rather be on nicotine than ever have to take Ritalin again.
 
What type of health damage do you believe that nicotine causes? It was to my understanding that nicotine may simply cause mild damage to the heart.

I don't have beliefs about the damage that nicotine causes to the body, there is simply inadequate knowledge of long term use of smokeless nicotine use. There has been some mild evidence that vaping nicotine has an immediate but temporary adverse effect on the respiratory tract, but to my knowledge that was really only pertinent to chain vapers and people who are allergic to something in the typical bottle of e juice. Maybe blood pressure. Nothing very serious yet.

But that wasn't really my concern about nicotine, I was more concerned about neurotransmitters. I'm not going to argue about further. Go ahead and do it if you are determined to.

 

I'm not arguing with you. I just would like to know if their are other health damages thay me be of concern with nicotine. As it may be my only option in the end because the racetams and Modafinil has failed me.

 

What type of negative effects do you think that nicotine may have on my neurotransmitters?

I believe that nicotine acts as an acetylcholine agonist right? Would that cause long term desensitization of acetylcholine receptors?

 

Edited by Ritchie, 28 April 2014 - 12:35 AM.

[Duchykins]

 

 

In you case with your system being excitable *and* coupled with GI problem (a subject relevant to nicotine), a stimulant like nicotine is likely to make everything a lot worse in the long run. The stereotype of the neurotic smoker has some truth behind it and it's not merely because of of health impacts of smoke inhalation; it's the stimulant itself and regular use of it. Nicotine will treat nor cure any of your ailments; the best therapeutic use for nicotine I've read of so far are brain pathologies involving inadequate acetylcholine, extreme memory impairment, and is not the case with you. Do not listen to people advocating that otherwise healthy people begin using nicotine for nootropic or anxiolytic effects; that kind of talk is prompted by what I perceive to be nootropic addiction or psychological addiction to "enhancing" or the cognitive dissonance of ex-smokers now using smokeless nicotine. It's not okay when other avenues have not been traveled first. The logic of it is very poor given our current understanding of nicotine's long term effects on neurotransmitters and receptors, especially serotonin and GABA. Please take this from a current nicotine user.


I didn't look very thoroughly at the inositol, serotonin and GABA connection just yet, just cursory searches. I will read more when I have more time.

Unfortunately, I've almost exhausted all avenues :(. I assure you I wiil be trying every single other supplement/nootropic beforehand, but when it boils down to it, I rather be on nicotine than ever have to take Ritalin again.
 
What type of health damage do you believe that nicotine causes? It was to my understanding that nicotine may simply cause mild damage to the heart.

I don't have beliefs about the damage that nicotine causes to the body, there is simply inadequate knowledge of long term use of smokeless nicotine use. There has been some mild evidence that vaping nicotine has an immediate but temporary adverse effect on the respiratory tract, but to my knowledge that was really only pertinent to chain vapers and people who are allergic to something in the typical bottle of e juice. Maybe blood pressure. Nothing very serious yet.

But that wasn't really my concern about nicotine, I was more concerned about neurotransmitters. I'm not going to argue about further. Go ahead and do it if you are determined to.
 

I'm not arguing with you. I just would like to know if their are other health damages thay me be of concern with nicotine. As it may be my only option in the end because the racetams and Modafinil has failed me.
 
What type of negative effects do you think that nicotine may have on my neurotransmitters?
I believe that nicotine acts as an acetylcholine agonist right? Would that cause long term desensitization of acetylcholine receptors?
 

I really have only paid attention to health concerns with vaping nicotine and the ingredients that go into making e juice. As for gum and patches, there may be concerns with skin and gum irritation or tooth sensitivity but that the extent of my knowledge on that. I've had to learn about nicotine and acetylcholine because I used to be on Wellbutrin, which is anticholinergic and that's one of the reasons it can decrease pleasure you get from nicotine use, the bad side is that it could block a little too much acetylcholine and leave you with problems like worsening memory, fuzzy vision *and* it could leave you with strong cravings for nicotine to put ACh back to levels you were accustomed to before taking Wellbutrin.

So nicotine can immediately help with serotonin and GABA, and ACh. But if the ACh goes too high, which is really easy for a nicotine user to do, it can depress serotonin and dopamine and do more harm than good, making you anxious and irritable. I think it can be difficult to find that "sweet spot" partly because of the addictive nature of nicotine as well any behavioral habits you have when using nicotine (such as the smoke break, or the oral fixation, or the chewing or holding a packet in your cheek)

As a stimulant, and like caffeine, nicotine will increase your metabolism and affect your bowels. I don't know the details of your stomach sensitivity, but there is a real possibility that nicotine could give you diarrhea or at least loosened stools. Conversly, one of the withdrawal symptoms is constipation, something I had to actually take laxatives for for the first time in my life even though I had switched to vaping, I was consuming much less nicotine than when I was smoking.


Have you heard of the GABA test? I don't know how real it is but I'm considering trying it for myself since it seems there is a gluten sensitivity running in my family, and it may not just be a gut issue. GABA famously has trouble crossing the BBB because its molecule is too large, but hypothetically if the barrier is compromised then larger molecules like GABA can pass through, which means a bunch of other things that are potentially deleterious could pass through too. I was actually thinking about making a thread to ask some questions about it

[Ritchie]

 

 

 

 

In you case with your system being excitable *and* coupled with GI problem (a subject relevant to nicotine), a stimulant like nicotine is likely to make everything a lot worse in the long run. The stereotype of the neurotic smoker has some truth behind it and it's not merely because of of health impacts of smoke inhalation; it's the stimulant itself and regular use of it. Nicotine will treat nor cure any of your ailments; the best therapeutic use for nicotine I've read of so far are brain pathologies involving inadequate acetylcholine, extreme memory impairment, and is not the case with you. Do not listen to people advocating that otherwise healthy people begin using nicotine for nootropic or anxiolytic effects; that kind of talk is prompted by what I perceive to be nootropic addiction or psychological addiction to "enhancing" or the cognitive dissonance of ex-smokers now using smokeless nicotine. It's not okay when other avenues have not been traveled first. The logic of it is very poor given our current understanding of nicotine's long term effects on neurotransmitters and receptors, especially serotonin and GABA. Please take this from a current nicotine user.


I didn't look very thoroughly at the inositol, serotonin and GABA connection just yet, just cursory searches. I will read more when I have more time.

Unfortunately, I've almost exhausted all avenues :(. I assure you I wiil be trying every single other supplement/nootropic beforehand, but when it boils down to it, I rather be on nicotine than ever have to take Ritalin again.
 
What type of health damage do you believe that nicotine causes? It was to my understanding that nicotine may simply cause mild damage to the heart.

I don't have beliefs about the damage that nicotine causes to the body, there is simply inadequate knowledge of long term use of smokeless nicotine use. There has been some mild evidence that vaping nicotine has an immediate but temporary adverse effect on the respiratory tract, but to my knowledge that was really only pertinent to chain vapers and people who are allergic to something in the typical bottle of e juice. Maybe blood pressure. Nothing very serious yet.

But that wasn't really my concern about nicotine, I was more concerned about neurotransmitters. I'm not going to argue about further. Go ahead and do it if you are determined to.
 

I'm not arguing with you. I just would like to know if their are other health damages thay me be of concern with nicotine. As it may be my only option in the end because the racetams and Modafinil has failed me.
 
What type of negative effects do you think that nicotine may have on my neurotransmitters?
I believe that nicotine acts as an acetylcholine agonist right? Would that cause long term desensitization of acetylcholine receptors?
 

I really have only paid attention to health concerns with vaping nicotine and the ingredients that go into making e juice. As for gum and patches, there may be concerns with skin and gum irritation or tooth sensitivity but that the extent of my knowledge on that. I've had to learn about nicotine and acetylcholine because I used to be on Wellbutrin, which is anticholinergic and that's one of the reasons it can decrease pleasure you get from nicotine use, the bad side is that it could block a little too much acetylcholine and leave you with problems like worsening memory, fuzzy vision *and* it could leave you with strong cravings for nicotine to put ACh back to levels you were accustomed to before taking Wellbutrin.

So nicotine can immediately help with serotonin and GABA, and ACh. But if the ACh goes too high, which is really easy for a nicotine user to do, it can depress serotonin and dopamine and do more harm than good, making you anxious and irritable. I think it can be difficult to find that "sweet spot" partly because of the addictive nature of nicotine as well any behavioral habits you have when using nicotine (such as the smoke break, or the oral fixation, or the chewing or holding a packet in your cheek)

As a stimulant, and like caffeine, nicotine will increase your metabolism and affect your bowels. I don't know the details of your stomach sensitivity, but there is a real possibility that nicotine could give you diarrhea or at least loosened stools. Conversly, one of the withdrawal symptoms is constipation, something I had to actually take laxatives for for the first time in my life even though I had switched to vaping, I was consuming much less nicotine than when I was smoking.


Have you heard of the GABA test? I don't know how real it is but I'm considering trying it for myself since it seems there is a gluten sensitivity running in my family, and it may not just be a gut issue. GABA famously has trouble crossing the BBB because its molecule is too large, but hypothetically if the barrier is compromised then larger molecules like GABA can pass through, which means a bunch of other things that are potentially deleterious could pass through too. I was actually thinking about making a thread to ask some questions about it

 

You may be right about the Stomach and GI issues. However caffeine never gave me any stomach problems so I am not entirely sure.

I have been looking at GABAergic supplements and I came across Phenibut. It is the direct precursor of GABA, and can cross the BBB very easily. I'm scared to take it though because people report withdrawl symptoms similar to alcohol(seizures etc.). Maybe really low doses might help though.

 

[Mr.No]

For ADHD you can try nicotinic acid 20 to 50mk per kg (1,5 - 3g daily). It decrease cAMP  by 40%  http://www.scienceda...70420143324.htm Its cheap (NA) and might help. Niacinamide may have anxiolitic effect in large enough dose. NA and NAM fave numerous other benefits for brain. You can try magnesium (up to 800mg), theanine, taurine, glycine, lithium (dont overdo 2mg is enough), pregnenolone, exercise.....

Edited by Mr.No, 15 May 2014 - 12:22 PM.

[LexLux]

Nicotine can result in bcl-2 over-expression and this makes it harder for damaged cells to undergo apoptosis. It also rewires your brain which makes you dependent on it. Not something to play with. 

[Neal Cullum]

For ADHD you can try nicotinic acid 20 to 50mk per kg (1,5 - 3g daily). It decrease cAMP  by 40%  http://www.scienceda...70420143324.htm Its cheap (NA) and might help. Niacinamide may have anxiolitic effect in large enough dose. NA and NAM fave numerous other benefits for brain. You can try magnesium (up to 800mg), theanine, taurine, glycine, lithium (dont overdo 2mg is enough), pregnenolone, exercise.....

 

I agree with this also with the nicotinic acid. I have suffered alot with sleep issues, anxiety, depression and now on a daily basis i take roughly 2 grams of nicotinic acid (niacin - vitamin b3). If you start on this then start with SMALL doses because you'll experience a flush and some people don't like it. Personally i like the flush but an alternative is niacinamide which causes no flush. Glycine is good also, higher doses are good for sleep and panic attacks. Be careful on the caffeine, use green tea, yerba mate, or a cocoa drink perhaps. chamomile tea is good for relaxing. I'd highly recommend some form of meditation as well, might be a struggle at first but it works wonders down the road. And eat healthy!