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what supplements have you wasted money on?

bulk powder wasted

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#31 thedarkbobo

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Posted 14 May 2014 - 02:02 PM

Whatever where it comes from, I think if something is syntetic it should be way more clean than regular veggies from the market. If it's extract then too, impurities should be very low amount of total. :cool:



#32 Gerrans

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Posted 14 May 2014 - 07:06 PM

^ sunflower oil is much better than the generic vegetable oil, cannola oil, cottonseed oil and/or soybean oil so why avoid it?

 

I doubt the quality is very good in a capsule--it is probably some horribly processed waste product. Sometimes I think these oils are used just to bulk supplements out. For example, why are some cheap garlic supplements suspended in oil? I suspect, to disguise how little garlic oil there is in them. I avoid all the waste-product oils you name--if I can.
 



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#33 TheFountain

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Posted 14 May 2014 - 09:35 PM

Why is GTF Chromium a good buy? Can you remind me why I was taking it? I forgot. 



#34 normalizing

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Posted 15 May 2014 - 02:20 AM

 

^ sunflower oil is much better than the generic vegetable oil, cannola oil, cottonseed oil and/or soybean oil so why avoid it?

 

I doubt the quality is very good in a capsule--it is probably some horribly processed waste product. Sometimes I think these oils are used just to bulk supplements out. For example, why are some cheap garlic supplements suspended in oil? I suspect, to disguise how little garlic oil there is in them. I avoid all the waste-product oils you name--if I can.
 

 

 

oh yeah? well in that case if you have such a fear of oils, i would suggest not reading this; http://en.wikipedia....wiki/Gutter_oil :O


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#35 eon

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Posted 15 May 2014 - 07:11 AM

http://www.drvita.co...-capsules-/1058

 

Just watch the video.

 

Also, it's inexpensive IMO.

 

Why is GTF Chromium a good buy? Can you remind me why I was taking it? I forgot. 

 


Edited by eon, 15 May 2014 - 07:13 AM.


#36 nupi

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Posted 15 May 2014 - 08:13 AM

Probably most if not all I ever bought...


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#37 1thoughtMaze1

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Posted 16 May 2014 - 01:23 AM

I like this topic, have thought about it from time to time.  I have friends who have said I am nuts to have so many supplements and herbs in my house.  I guess I have to say I have indeed wasted a ton of money on supplements and herbs, I really fear to know the  amount! 
 
It is weird, my mind suggest to me over and over that the next best thing to cure my ills is just around the corner, and after reading some anecdotal reports here and there, I buy into the idea that such and such a supplement or herb is going to be "the one."  In the end most of these items fail miserably to do what I hope, and the nearly full bottles end up sitting on my shelf for years, after initial dismaying trials, so  I throw them out. Seems that if you read NCIB you can often find some journal article where some herb or supplement can absolutely cure cancer, induce neurogenesis in the brain etc., mitigate depression, cause hair growth, you name it, but like one other poster noted, you can to a large degree study long enough and find some purported study to fit your hope.
 
I liked the comment Saffron wrote in the thread: Re: L-Threonate for neurogenesis, alzheimer's, hair loss, osteoarthritis



I might need to try this for hairloss

but i am skeptical of neural genesis in the hippocampus

that claim is made for like 100 different things, that they do neurogenesis in the hippocampus

Abstracts and studies are often incorrect and also they never tell you HOW MUCH something does something, unless you find like IC50 values

So for instance they might say 100 different things cause neurogenesis but nothing really doesnt it to any significant level except Stablon.

Doesnt anyone else feel a lack of confidence on how abstracts claim everything does everything?

Watch this, Im going think of a random herb and type neurogenesis with it to get abstracts. a totally random herb.

Im going to type ginseng neurogenesis and i bet ill get results -- i thought of ginseng at random

........

done, heres my results:

Ginseng total saponins enhance neurogenesis after focal cerebral ischemia.

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/21073942

Ginseng enhances contextual fear conditioning and neurogenesis in rats.

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/15596238


see how you can just think of random things and type neurogenesis and then find abstracts on it?

and notice how abstracts always contradict each other? Ive seem ones that say DIM inhibits CYP1A2 next to ones that say DIM Induces CYP1A2 .. ive seen so many contradictions in abstracts. I dont trust them like people into supplements do, their so weak.

Check this out, ill do it again, ill think of a random herb and type neurogenesis with it and im sure theres abstracts on it.

Green Tea.

Here,

Green tea epigallocatechin-3-gallate (EGCG) promotes neural progenitor cell proliferation and sonic hedgehog pathway activation during adult hippocampal neurogenesis.

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/22692966


its so asinine how everything does everything and you can find an abstract for things you make up at random in your head.
 

One mycologist I know jokes that if you get deep into NCIB, you will eventually find "everything does everything!"
 
It is funny, the mistaken idea that the next thing that will make "everything alright" I often believe will come as something as simple and small as a pill. I guess it worked when I was a child and my mom gave me an aspirin for a headache and I haven't let go.
 
I also think taking the time to order something online, or hunting a medicinal plant or mushroom in the forest,  fulfills temporarily  the reward process in my brain, maybe a it's dopamine-reward thing, the seeking temporarily satisfies something, but rarely if ever are the benefits lasting or reproducable and so most often the early positive experience  may simply be just a placebo response. I feel this repetitive desire to buy supplements often without considering cost effectiveness and moreover seldom gaining significant  health benefits is part of my addictive nature.
 
I should add that there must be people who are making a lot of money off Longecity members by selling supplements and no doubt, as with anything profitable,  not all sellers are scrupulus, honest, and some of the posters on these and similar forums are likely straight out shills who submit fake posts to further sales of their products. At another forum, "herbs. mxf. yuku .com" for example, the person who created the website and forum has been suggested by several to be merely  posing as more than a few different posters at the forum, all of whom tend to be  the only members to  give positive experience reviews and product recommendations in discussions, and low and behold, that forum owner  also happens to sell those very  lackluster essential oils and other bunk items on his linked commercial website. So buyer beware!
 
I will add, like I have in a recent post, that EMDR and CBT with a skilled therapist, as well as meditation and yoga, daily exercise have probably done far more for me than most of these supplements and herbs.  Unfortunately meditation and yoga do not provide me with that same dopamine surge that I get from ordering the next pill, so I will continue reading! :ph34r:

Nice post brah
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#38 PWAIN

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Posted 16 May 2014 - 02:06 AM

Who can honestly know. Maybe something I brought and thought didn't do anything preented me getting cancer or heart disease or something obscure that I would have never thought of. Something might have made me a nicer person or smarter in some aspect without my noticing. The point is to go with what you think is best and hope that it is doing you good.

 

I'm willing to put up the money because it won't be much use to me when I'm dead so I prefer to at least try to avoid that fate. My chances of success are miniscule but at least they are not zero.


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#39 eon

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Posted 16 May 2014 - 07:18 AM

plus veggies or fruits do not always have the amount of vitamins you could get from supplements. Maybe the seeds to plant those veggies and fruits are from China too. LOL.

 

Whatever where it comes from, I think if something is syntetic it should be way more clean than regular veggies from the market. If it's extract then too, impurities should be very low amount of total. :cool:

 



#40 boff

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Posted 16 May 2014 - 07:58 AM

Why is GTF Chromium a good buy? Can you remind me why I was taking it? I forgot. 

 

Memory / recall.


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#41 Gerrans

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Posted 16 May 2014 - 09:07 AM

 

 

^ sunflower oil is much better than the generic vegetable oil, cannola oil, cottonseed oil and/or soybean oil so why avoid it?

 

I doubt the quality is very good in a capsule--it is probably some horribly processed waste product. Sometimes I think these oils are used just to bulk supplements out. For example, why are some cheap garlic supplements suspended in oil? I suspect, to disguise how little garlic oil there is in them. I avoid all the waste-product oils you name--if I can.
 

 

 

oh yeah? well in that case if you have such a fear of oils, i would suggest not reading this; http://en.wikipedia....wiki/Gutter_oil :O

 

 

Eek, gross. But it does not surprise me. The way to make money on this earth is to buy something at one price and sell it at a higher one, by upgrading it in some way that adds value. The whole food and supplement industry seems to have grown on the back of inventing ways of selling waste products as regular or healthy foods. The stuff being found in cheap meat pies, etc., in British supermarkets, for example, is mind boggling. I suppose it would not be economical to put some real meat inside pastry--you would have to charge people three times as much for what they think of as a cheap product.

 

One reason I am dubious about fish oil is that it is blatantly a waste product. Whoever thought of turning fish waste into a premium health product was some sort of genius.
 


Edited by Gerrans, 16 May 2014 - 09:11 AM.

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#42 Mr.No

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Posted 16 May 2014 - 11:11 AM

http://www.informati...il-supplements/



#43 deeptrance

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Posted 16 May 2014 - 11:29 PM

I need a supplement and herb intervention. I need friends and family to forcefully enter my room and take my shelves full of powders. I was planning to be a reseller of custom blended herbs and supplements, so I stockpiled everything imaginable. Along the way, I also stockpiled articles about research showing the benefits of each item, and I was persuaded that it would be a good idea to take these things myself. There are too many items in my daily regimen to list here. It's embarrassing.

In defense of the supplements and herbs, they certainly haven't made me sick. The only problem I've had has been with glutamatergic substances, which tweak me out and interfere with sleep. Other than that, I never get sick and I feel pretty awesome all day, nearly every day.

Honorable mentions:
proline - what's the point?
PEA - bought a bunch of it for fun and found out that it's NOT fun, for me... just makes me anxious and spikes my BP
sunifiram - I use tiny amounts on occasion but I have a 100 year supply
various unconcentrated/unstandardized herbs - no clue what I'm getting from these, switched to standardized extracts
5-HTP - I really dislike this stuff, makes me feel anxious and agitated
magnolia extract - doesn't do jack to help me with sleep, not sure it has any other benefits

Will continue to take the other 50+ items in my daily routine.

#44 normalizing

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Posted 17 May 2014 - 12:16 AM

sunifiram 100 year long supply? whoa



#45 Duchykins

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Posted 17 May 2014 - 12:27 AM

Enough sunifiram to last through the Apocalypse - I hear that

#46 eon

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Posted 17 May 2014 - 06:10 AM

not sure if you've read the news a while back that Japan has found ways to make human feces into foods for human consumption. I think some of it is already available in Japan. Not sure.

 

Oh btw, my DHA is plant based not fish oil. From algae. A bit more expensive than fish oils. 

 

 

 

 

 

^ sunflower oil is much better than the generic vegetable oil, cannola oil, cottonseed oil and/or soybean oil so why avoid it?

 

I doubt the quality is very good in a capsule--it is probably some horribly processed waste product. Sometimes I think these oils are used just to bulk supplements out. For example, why are some cheap garlic supplements suspended in oil? I suspect, to disguise how little garlic oil there is in them. I avoid all the waste-product oils you name--if I can.
 

 

 

oh yeah? well in that case if you have such a fear of oils, i would suggest not reading this; http://en.wikipedia....wiki/Gutter_oil :O

 

 

Eek, gross. But it does not surprise me. The way to make money on this earth is to buy something at one price and sell it at a higher one, by upgrading it in some way that adds value. The whole food and supplement industry seems to have grown on the back of inventing ways of selling waste products as regular or healthy foods. The stuff being found in cheap meat pies, etc., in British supermarkets, for example, is mind boggling. I suppose it would not be economical to put some real meat inside pastry--you would have to charge people three times as much for what they think of as a cheap product.

 

One reason I am dubious about fish oil is that it is blatantly a waste product. Whoever thought of turning fish waste into a premium health product was some sort of genius.
 

 

 


Edited by eon, 17 May 2014 - 06:19 AM.


#47 eon

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Posted 17 May 2014 - 06:18 AM

what is benfotiamine and panthetine for other than being active forms of the b vitamin thiamine and panthothenic acid? I'd have to look this up again. When I bought it I think the function is completely different than the non-active form. The non-active form seem functional and effective, but this is untrue with Pyridoxine (which the active form is more potent). Correct me if I'm wrong. Now the active form of Pyridoxine (pyridoxal 5 phosphate) is definitely worth it so is the Riboflavin 5 phosphate active form. The non-active form seem like a waste of money, but could be the exact opposite with thiamine and panthothenic acid (or not?). 

 

I bought a sunflower seed spread (Sunbutter), kinda like a peanut butter only made with sunflower seeds. I see several vitamins and minerals (including copper) on the nutrition facts but do not see them on the ingredients, does this mean that the vitamin and minerals came from sunflower seeds itself and not "fortified" the way some products like cereals are? The ingredients are simply sunflower seeds and other things to make it in "butter", but nothing to fortify it with vitamins and minerals. With cereals those vitamin and minerals you see plentiful in the nutrition facts are "added" and didn't come naturally from the grains it was made with.


Edited by eon, 17 May 2014 - 06:26 AM.


#48 Deep Thought

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Posted 17 May 2014 - 12:45 PM

The supplements that did work, worked well. I've wasted somewhere between ~60 to 100 dollars. The supplements that the money was wasted on is multivitamins.



#49 TheFountain

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Posted 17 May 2014 - 10:10 PM

proline - what's the point?
 

Suppose to be a collagen precursor, along with lysine. Might be useful. I've done it for a few months here and there myself. Might return. Might not. 


Will continue to take the other 50+ items in my daily routine.

Which are? 



#50 deeptrance

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Posted 18 May 2014 - 12:53 AM

proline - what's the point?

Suppose to be a collagen precursor, along with lysine. Might be useful. I've done it for a few months here and there myself. Might return. Might not.


That's precisely why I originally purchased it, along with lysine! What I've come to realize is that every positive thing that happens in mind and body has precursors, and I've had the habit of reading about the precursors and then deciding to buy them as supplements. This becomes absurd at some point.

Listing everything I take would require a fair amount of time so I'll just run down the ones I'm most committed to:
uridine (one of the few things I actually feel in my body, and I love the feeling)
noopept
PRL-8-53
ALCAR
ALA
CoQ10
B vitamins
D3
cal-mag-zinc
extra mag at bedtime
glycine and taurine at bedtime
valerian at bedtime
mucuna pruriens
tongkat ali
tribulus
catuaba
muira puama
rhodiola
ginkgo
bacopa
ashwagandha
schisandra
eleutherococcus
jiaogulan
hawthorne
DLPA
l-theanine
picamilon
phenibut
berberine
EGCG
cayenne
7-keto
african mango
resveratrol
glucosamine
TMG
EPA and DHA
Pre-workout: creatine, citrulline, and beta-alanine

Most of the herbs are standardized extract powders. I create my own blends, buy most items in bulk, and do my own capsules for the few items that taste too gnarly for me to take by the quarter teaspoon. I'm a pimp for adaptogens!

Edited by deeptrance, 18 May 2014 - 01:05 AM.

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#51 eon

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Posted 18 May 2014 - 05:53 AM

why mag and taurine at bedtime? I take taurine daytime. mag is both day and night times.



#52 Deep Thought

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Posted 18 May 2014 - 06:14 AM

 

 

proline - what's the point?

Suppose to be a collagen precursor, along with lysine. Might be useful. I've done it for a few months here and there myself. Might return. Might not.

 


That's precisely why I originally purchased it, along with lysine! What I've come to realize is that every positive thing that happens in mind and body has precursors, and I've had the habit of reading about the precursors and then deciding to buy them as supplements. This becomes absurd at some point.

Listing everything I take would require a fair amount of time so I'll just run down the ones I'm most committed to:
uridine (one of the few things I actually feel in my body, and I love the feeling)
noopept
PRL-8-53
ALCAR
ALA
CoQ10
B vitamins
D3
cal-mag-zinc
extra mag at bedtime
glycine and taurine at bedtime
valerian at bedtime
mucuna pruriens
tongkat ali
tribulus
catuaba
muira puama
rhodiola
ginkgo
bacopa
ashwagandha
schisandra
eleutherococcus
jiaogulan
hawthorne
DLPA
l-theanine
picamilon
phenibut
berberine
EGCG
cayenne
7-keto
african mango
resveratrol
glucosamine
TMG
EPA and DHA
Pre-workout: creatine, citrulline, and beta-alanine

Most of the herbs are standardized extract powders. I create my own blends, buy most items in bulk, and do my own capsules for the few items that taste too gnarly for me to take by the quarter teaspoon. I'm a pimp for adaptogens!

 

Does PRL-8-53 improve your memory?



#53 Duchykins

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Posted 18 May 2014 - 06:46 AM

why mag and taurine at bedtime? I take taurine daytime. mag is both day and night times.


Because they are both calming. I do the same, a morning and bedtime dose of taurine

#54 Deep Thought

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Posted 18 May 2014 - 06:52 AM

Glucosamine is ineffective, by the way. The human body produces a magnitude 10000 more glucosamine than what a standard dose contains, it is therefore highly unlikely that ~0.01% more glucosamine will do you any good.


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#55 eon

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Posted 18 May 2014 - 07:19 AM

I guess I should avoid taking mag before working out as to not "calm" me?

 

My mag dose is am/pm, my taurine is just a.m. thinking it's for energy?

 

 

 

why mag and taurine at bedtime? I take taurine daytime. mag is both day and night times.


Because they are both calming. I do the same, a morning and bedtime dose of taurine

 

 


Edited by eon, 18 May 2014 - 07:20 AM.


#56 eon

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Posted 18 May 2014 - 07:22 AM

I guess it depends which version. From what I understand glucosamine sulfate is effective, which is why I take it. Not with those other stuff like MSM and Chondroitin. I think I read that glucosamine depletes as we age plus it's good for the joints?

 

Glucosamine is ineffective, by the way. The human body produces a magnitude 10000 more glucosamine than what a standard dose contains, it is therefore highly unlikely that ~0.01% more glucosamine will do you any good.

 



#57 Deep Thought

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Posted 18 May 2014 - 08:38 AM

I guess it depends which version. From what I understand glucosamine sulfate is effective, which is why I take it. Not with those other stuff like MSM and Chondroitin. I think I read that glucosamine depletes as we age plus it's good for the joints?

 

Glucosamine is ineffective, by the way. The human body produces a magnitude 10000 more glucosamine than what a standard dose contains, it is therefore highly unlikely that ~0.01% more glucosamine will do you any good.

 

Here's the article that I based my opinion off of, it does a great job at elucidating the current knowlege of the effectiveness of chondroitin and glucosamine

 

http://www.scienceba...ne-really-work/


Edited by Deep Thought, 18 May 2014 - 08:53 AM.

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#58 Duchykins

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Posted 18 May 2014 - 02:55 PM

I guess I should avoid taking mag before working out as to not "calm" me?
 
My mag dose is am/pm, my taurine is just a.m. thinking it's for energy?
 

 


Neither one of them are stimulating. Take them whenever you like since they are not sedating unless taken in unreasonably huge megadoses. From what I've seen so far, mostly poorly informed general public, idiot bodybuilders and athletic supplement manufacturers think taurine is a stimulant, you can always tell a bad supplement company from a half decent one by the way they advertise taurine. Tauirine doesn't give you 'energy'. Taurine helps keep magnesium and potassium inside the cell, and increase GABA, both of these actions having calming effects for people having anxiety and electrolyte issues, also helping with insomnia, seizures, heart palpitations. Taurine is put in energy drinks to counter the adverse effects of massive doses of caffeine (and guarana which often has even higher concentrations of caffeine than the caffeine they directly add to the drink, which they don't have to tell you about), one of the more dangerous adverse effects from caffeine megadoses is catastrophic magnesium and potassium loss, which really just doubles into a state of hypokalemia. And the jitters and all that, of course.

I also take taurine for its help preventing gluamate exitotoxicity triggered migraines.
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#59 deeptrance

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Posted 18 May 2014 - 08:34 PM

Does PRL-8-53 improve your memory?


The reason I like it is pretty specific to a certain type of memory function. When I take it, I get a few hours where I can remember with clarity everything that happened in that time frame. I have some problems with failing to remember what I was doing yesterday or even just a few hours ago, but PRL-8-53 has really helped me to kind of glue my memory back together so that I have a more accurate and complete timeline of events. I have not done any objective memory tests so all of this is purely anecdotal and very hard to substantiate, although I suppose I could do tests of "recalling what happened yesterday" where I compare two conditions. Problem with that is, every day is very different, so I can't control for all the factors that would affect my recall.

Glucosamine is ineffective, by the way. The human body produces a magnitude 10000 more glucosamine than what a standard dose contains, it is therefore highly unlikely that ~0.01% more glucosamine will do you any good.


My standard dose is 2 grams a day. You are suggesting that my body produces 2 kilos of glucosamine a day, which is obviously absurd.

I've taken glucosamine since the late 1980s, when I was diagnosed with osteochondritis dessicans and was told that I wouldn't be able to walk within 10 years because of how badly my cartilage had deteriorated. I went through 3 arthroscopic surgeries to remove loose pieces of cartilage that had broken off and were jamming the knee joint. I noticed what seemed to be a very good effect of glucosamine, and over the years I've become more convinced of this because I've gone for periods of time without it and my knee pain becomes severe at those times.

You could show me a thousand studies proving that glucosamine is useless and I would keep taking it. Maybe I'm a statistical outlier. I am strongly persuaded by empirical evidence, in the form of my own experience, that it's doing wonders for me, and I'm able to walk and run with less pain today at age 58 than I could when I was 32.

Edited by deeptrance, 18 May 2014 - 08:42 PM.


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#60 deeptrance

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Posted 18 May 2014 - 08:41 PM

...Taurine helps keep magnesium and potassium inside the cell, and increase GABA, both of these actions having calming effects for people having anxiety and electrolyte issues, also helping with insomnia, seizures, heart palpitations. Taurine is put in energy drinks to counter the adverse effects of massive doses of caffeine (and guarana which often has even higher concentrations of caffeine than the caffeine they directly add to the drink, which they don't have to tell you about), one of the more dangerous adverse effects from caffeine megadoses is catastrophic magnesium and potassium loss, which really just doubles into a state of hypokalemia. And the jitters and all that, of course.


Thanks for all this, it's very interesting and I wasn't aware of all these functions of taurine. I heavily research most of the supplements I take, especially those that act more like drugs, but I was merely taking taurine at bedtime due to having a vague notion of it being helpful for staying calm, a notion which came from having seen statements to that effect repeated by sources that I trust.

Edited by deeptrance, 18 May 2014 - 08:46 PM.






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