64 replies to this topic

[susmariosep]

May I just continue to get some
free critique of my English.

Dear Chip, while you are busy jousting with Prometheus -- which according to one Columbia U. graduate proves that "you never truly know someone until you fight him" -- when you have a respite, and you are not yet exasperated with my interruptions, here are my reactions to that brief post of yours which together with my brief post I put through the Flesh-Kincaid readability test.

(Enumerated according to topics)

1. Oh don't be mortified. It just appears to be misplaced or missing adverbial clauses or some such thing. For example

"I guess, Chip, that makes us two a society of mutual back-patting reciprocating admirers."

I think that grammatically you may have meant "I guess, Chip, that makes us two 'of' a society of mutual back-patting reciprocating admirers."


2. It just doesn't roll off the subliminal tongue when reading without invoking a bit of confusion within myself.  Makes it harder to wade past such to find the many gems in your discourse.  No need to take offense. 


3. I did not take offense at your mistakenly assuming my having more involvment in Buddhism than I did.  Mistakes happen. 


4. I am just amazed how the main contentions of this thread are being bared in other areas of this forum. 

Still no word from the "higher-ups?"  Must of struck a chord some where that is still resonating.

On 1.

I really intended to say: "I guess, Chip, that makes us two a society of mutual back-patting reciprocating admirers", without the 'of' between 'two' and 'a society', just like two Israelis make a political party (or is it a three-sided debate?); anyway I think the sentence as I drafted it makes sense and is grammatically and syntactically correct.


On 2.

It just doesn't roll off the subliminal tongue when reading without invoking a bit of confusion within myself.

Just like when you are driving in an unfamiliar neighborhood... Perhaps now I can understand how you guys can detect that someone is not a native U.S. English speaker, because he does not sound subliminally or roll off subliminally smooth as you mentally speak his lines in your tongue. Good, now I know.


On 3.

Again, my mistake, because I was wondering maybe you might have been one of those devout modern Western intellectuals who swoon at the mention of Buddhist spiritual philosophy of self-annihilation.


On 4.

Don't you feel that allowances must be made for the wielders of power; otherwise, I hate to miss you in this forum.

Susma

[Chip]

OH, it was my mistake. For some reason I was thinking "two" was a qualifier for the word "society" and not "us." Silly me. My sincerest apologies. Guess, if this a case of my poor misunderstanding, I would have to state that I have no ready evidence that you are not a native English speaker. If you are or not, you have a tremendous grasp of the language that humbles me. I see I have much to learn from you. I would appreciate if we could go do something more constructive elsewhere though.

Susma quoting me and numbering it: "4. I am just amazed how the main contentions of this thread are being bared in other areas of this forum."

Susma's numbered similarly statement: "Don't you feel that allowances must be made for the wielders of power; otherwise, I hate to miss you in this forum."

Hmmmmm. My integrity is important to me. If this place fosters propaganda and ill will, I should not want to be a part of it. I'd have to seek out other sources of the information I desire in furthering human longevity including my own if these "wielders of power" decide to ax me. I think I'm pushing about 7 months of active involvement here and I've learned some things of value to me but not a lot. I wouldn't mind being a part and hope I can make significant contribution besides learn but, if the powers that be decide otherwise, that is as it would be. I participated in an early seminar with the author and open source authority on the Python programming language and it is very enticing to me. I should just jump into learning it extensively. My motivation is partly my witnessing the failure of online forums. If the staff here wants to demonstrate its inability to discern, so be it.

[Chip]

prometheus: "I did not say the case was not political. I said that my motivation to discuss the topic of TS and my position on euthanasia was unrelated to a political stance. "

From this thread "you believe that my stance to prevent TS from being euthanised was motivated by a political agenda."

I believe this is in reference to your thread on TS (misleadingly entitled as being about euthanasia). I just went and did a search through it all for the phrase "political agenda." I find that you were the only one to mention it. I believe it is well nigh high time to be literal rather than place words into another's mouth that did not occur.

If you do care to consider the original thread, I did state that the thread was "all about politics" assuming that the situation exemplified euthanasia when it did not. You have repeated this assumption with your call for a debate on TS in the context of being euthanasia in this thread. That was at least part of the political posturing by the current US administration. Whether or not you state something as having been this or that, your "agenda" exemplified with the first word of the title of that thread, was to assume a "framing" of the TS fiasco that agrees with the US administrations promulgating it for political ends, nothing more than a pretended moral outrage. Whether or not you were aware of your agenda then or now, it still is in stretching the truth to support the political agenda of obscuring the immorality of this administration that supports allowing people to die by having life support removed despite objection by immediate legal guardian or through bombing a sovereign nation on the basis of "a pack of lies" (George Galloway).

I wonder, is your strategy here to just keep on offering little one liners and short statements in hopes that you can avoid incriminating yourself and my lengthy replies might offer up some tid bit you can cite out of context to denigrate me?

BTW, my reference to a "big 'IF'" concerning the possibility of a troll attempting to gain power and status here was not that it is unlikely to happen but that it has and will most likely be a continuing danger that has and will seek to subvert Imminst from its stated purpose. It is nice when the perpetrator of such trolling is obvious as in the case of Nootropik. It may not have been obvious in your case when you were earning status and governing powers here but it is now. The silence of the other members of this staff and actual capitulation by some, tells me that they are strongly opposed to seeing and commenting on any blatant or otherwise evidence of prometheus actions as a member of the staff here that directly contradicts and condones others to transgress the spirit and letter of the user agreement and (thank you) posting guidelines. They shame themselves. Better that they acknowledge the fact that attempts at trolling do happen and how they might take preventative measures to keep it from happenning and how they might deal with it when it has happened. Otherwise, it can appear that the leadership here is more concerned with gaining power and prestige rather than seek to support Imminst in its lofty mission. If trolling is not addressed, if ignored, if actually supported by the leadership here, it will not be prestige they have found but rather something quite contrary. Does the staff here truly want to have their reputations associated with the crass and unreasoning, to allow such to become a part of their legacy?

---

edit by caliban: name changes

Edited by caliban, 21 July 2005 - 02:32 AM.

[susmariosep]

Directorial vote.


I took some time and labor to find out what the highest powers here can and will and should do on the complaint of Chip.

Ultimately there is the directorial vote for any kind of action to be taken on the subject-person of complaint, one -, Advisor of ImmInst Org, alias Prometheus.

Here are some pertinent excerpts from the provisions and rules and regulations governing ImmInst Org (in no particular sequence).

Advisors

(1) Responsibility
Advisors are free to consult with ImmInst members concerning their field of expertise.

(2) Advisor Election & Term
Accepting individuals to the roll of ImmInst Advisor shall be approved by an authoritative majority by the Board of Directors. The specific expertise of the advisor must be stated. An Advisors term ends when the Advisor resigns or by authoritative directorial vote.

http://imminst.org/a...stitution.php#b

Directorial Votes

(1) All votes of the Board of Directors are resolved by single majority of all votes cast unless this Constitution requires an authoritative majority. An authoritative majority consist of at least five (5) Directors voting in favor of the motion.

(2) In the case of equal outcomes, the Chair shall determine the outcome of the vote.

(3) Directorial votes will be made available to voting for no less than forty-eight (48) hours.

http://imminst.org/a...tution.php#art5

Board of Directors

(1) Responsibility
The Board of Directors (the Board) is the highest decision making body of ImmInst. Directors shall determine ImmInst procedure and policy, and vote on issues important to pursuing its mission. All corporate powers shall be exercised by or under authority of the Board of Directors except as may otherwise be provided for in this Constitution and the Bylaws.

(2) Board Set-up
The Board of Directors shall consist of seven (7) individuals. Four (4) Board members will be elected by special referendum on even number years (starting 2004) to serve a two-year term. The other three (3) Board members will be elected on odd-number years (starting 2005) to serve a two-year term. There are no term limits. Directors shall be elected by special referendum as described in this Constitution.

http://imminst.org/a...itution.php#dir

I put these excerpts together for the benefit of viewers to this thread, the number of which on last check stands at 339.

Note to Chip: Better pursue your complaint in the Free Speech forum, where powers that be here do not exercise editing, deleting, or relocating action on posts.

Free Speech Forum:  ImmInst will reserve a forum for the expression of free speech. This forum will be named the "Free Speech Forum."  ImmInst will not restrict speech in this forum in so far as speech remains lawful as enforced by the United States government. Members who visit the Free Speech Forum should be prepared to tolerate objectionable material.

http://imminst.org/a...stitution.php#a

More excerpts below.


Susma

Annex:

Useful excerpts from the provisions and rules and regulations of ImmInst Org (in no particular sequence):

Bylaw A

ImmInst members must adhere to the following agreement or risk losing membership privileges.

ImmInst User Agreement & Disclaimer

Malicious Attacks: ImmInst has a zero tolerance policy for any individual or group which tries to disrupt the usual flow of information in the ImmInst forums or chat room. Examples include, but are not limited to, such things as spamming and hacking. Such individuals will be banned from posting either immediately or after due warning depending on the incident.

http://imminst.org/a...stitution.php#a

Posting Guidelines

The following guidelines are here to promote constructive and thought provoking discussion. Please consider these guidelines carefully when participating in forum discussions.

Please Be Courteous
Please Be Informative
Please Be Relevant
Please Be Accessible

Forum posts and topics which fail to adhere to these guidelines are subject to moderation as granted by the ImmInst User Agreement.

COURTEOUS
 Be polite when replying to others. .
 Avoid using derogatory language.
 Maintain a constructive attitude.
 Attack ideas and not people.

INFORMATIVE
 Be informative and clear when posting.
 Before creating a new topic, check to see if the topic hasn't already been created elsewhere.

RELEVANT
 Avoid making duplicate posts.
 Post topics under the appropriate forums.
 Keep follow-up posts on topic.
 Avoid posting advertisements or Spam.

ACCESSIBLE
 Be sure that the posted text is readable.
 Use emoticons/smiles sparingly.
 Post pictures when relevant by not excessively.

http://www.imminst.o.../guidelines.php

Bylaw C

ImmInst Leadership Positions

Section 2 -- Advisors

(1) Responsibility

Advisors are free to consult with ImmInst members concerning their field of expertise.

(2) Advisor Election & Term

Accepting individuals to the roll of ImmInst Advisor shall be approved by an authoritative majority by the Board of Directors. The specific expertise of the advisor must be stated. An Advisors term ends when the Advisor resigns or by authoritative directorial vote.

http://imminst.org/a...stitution.php#b

Constitution & Bylaws
Article V. -- Meetings & Voting Procedures
Section 3 -- Directorial Votes

(1) All votes of the Board of Directors are resolved by single majority of all votes cast unless this Constitution requires an authoritative majority. An authoritative majority consist of at least five (5) Directors voting in favor of the motion.

(2) In the case of equal outcomes, the Chair shall determine the outcome of the vote.

(3) Directorial votes will be made available to voting for no less than forty-eight (48) hours.

http://imminst.org/a...tution.php#art5

Section 3 -- Board of Directors

(1) Responsibility
The Board of Directors (the Board) is the highest decision making body of ImmInst. Directors shall determine ImmInst procedure and policy, and vote on issues important to pursuing its mission. All corporate powers shall be exercised by or under authority of the Board of Directors except as may otherwise be provided for in this Constitution and the Bylaws.

(2) Board Set-up
The Board of Directors shall consist of seven (7) individuals. Four (4) Board members will be elected by special referendum on even number years (starting 2004) to serve a two-year term. The other three (3) Board members will be elected on odd-number years (starting 2005) to serve a two-year term. There are no term limits. Directors shall be elected by special referendum as described in this Constitution.

http://imminst.org/a...itution.php#dir

---

edit by caliban: name changes

Edited by caliban, 21 July 2005 - 02:33 AM.

[susmariosep]

Accusations against a leader here.


The complaint of Chip here in this his own thread is against one Chip identifies him as the poster here who goes by the name of Prometheus. What members here can notice is that Prometheus carries the designation of an Advisor.

An advisor is an official of ImmInst Org only lower to a director.

Here is the hierarchy of ImmInst Org:

Directors
Advisors
Navigators
Spokespersons


I am keen on this thread because I had a similar experience in the Internet Infidels? Discussion Board.

I had some grievances against moderators and administrators there who were into discussions with me on several topics, but the most emotionally charged were the ones on religion, atheism, Christianity -- with me taking the side for religion, theism, and Christianity, I playing the role of a postgraduate Catholic who still has fond memories of and attachments to Catholicism and Christendom (note that word, Christendom).

I brought a complaint against some moderators and administrators whom I accused broadly, of lacking in courtesy toward me.

There is a Problems and Complaints forum in the IIDB which entertains grievances from posters. When I was thinking that the procedure would continue until the powers there would reach a reasonable conclusion and make a decision on findings, what happened?

Suddenly I was slapped with a suspension of one month, by the administrator who took up my complaint, for what? For as I understood it, being insubordinate -- in effect, taking up too much time of moderators and administrators, as the hearing officer told me, "There are 15,000 members in IIDB".

See these two threads in IIDB for an acquaintance with my complaint there against moderators and administrators who were into discussions with me:

I have not derailed the thread, and other things.
http://www.iidb.org/...ad.php?t=105985

P2k's derail of good things atheists can see in religion.
http://www.iidb.org/...ad.php?t=105931


In the present thread here, Chip has brought his complaint to the powers here; but his complaint is against a power also. How is his complaint going to be resolved by the powers themselves?

QUOTE[/b] (Chip)<!--QuoteEBegin]
(July 3, 2005, #4 message of thread)

Chip, I fear you may be using your valuable energies to fight a paper tiger.  I'm sorry you feel this way.  I've found it helpful to remember that we're in this fight together against a common enemy rather than against each other.  If you feel you're hampered in making progress toward fighting death in anyway, ImmInst Leadership will be the first to help. 

Leadership has the ability to check ISP, but this is not a perfect system as any new member can sign on from a different computer or change their ISP information through their computer. 

Regardless, Leadership takes your concerns seriously and have already created a leadership thread where this topic is discussed.

Well, in my part of the world it is today July 12, 2005.

I am not aware of any resolution on this complaint by the leadership, made known in the open forums here.

To the credit of leadership here, I can say from my limited exposure here that they do love their posters here; they are very loath to expel anyone even on the vehement move of others who have voiced very serious charges against that someone.

Susma

---

edit by caliban: name changes

Edited by caliban, 21 July 2005 - 02:35 AM.

[Chip]

Oh my goodness, I thought Advisors were near the bottom of the hierarchy, not next to the top. Expressed such and nobody corrected me. OH! I have made a terrible mistake. Me, thinking that an Advisor would need to refrain from resorting to infantile name calling and lying and echoing the main stream propaganda of today replete with the misinformation and deliberate misleading framing of issues. To think that it would be wrong for an advisor to endorse stalking and the possible creation of fake IDs to pad a poll and level nothing but ad-hominem to another poster who made the Advisor's usurpation of Imminst's goals transparent, what was I thinking? Of course he has the privilege of moving this thread out of the suggestion area and into the catcher, to move a post on SENS out of the SENS area and into the Physics category where it definitely did not belong, out of spite. He is like a general, not a sargent. He has free reign to do what he likes, ignore the user agreement and the posting guidelines. The users of Imminst's forum are here to serve him, he is not our servant, not in any way being held to any decorum.

Gee. Doesn't that make one envious? Ooh. Maybe if I play my cards right I too can become a member of the higher echelons and seek to fulfill my personal agenda with the lofty stated purpose of this forum just worthy of some lip service now and then. All I got to do is put some money down and I can go see the fun and games of the FULL MEMBER FORUM, the priviledged elite. Then I would need to pick an area where there is little argument but a fair amount of involvement, study up a bit so I can appear to know what I am talking about and then go into that area and make a bunch of posts so I can have some claim to fame and then, swoosh, I could become free of any rules or guidelines! Oh it must be sweet.

Uh oh, I was thinking out loud and typed it here. Probably blew my chances to be a part of the chosen few. Looks like I'm gonna have to suffer fire and damnation while the exalted ones float up into the air to meet Jesus for the Rapture where they will get to have big 42" plasma displays and surround sound Dolby theatre presentation of the suffering low-life in all the sweat, blood and gore splendor, sipping a diet coke and nibbling on a big mac while the air conditioner keeps everything comfortably womb like. No way am I gonna make it to the next plane of existence. I have blown it royally. Excuse me. Think I'm gonna toss my cookies.

YeeeeeeeeHaaaaaaa

[DJS]

Jesus Fucking Christ on a Cross. You guys are still going on about this? Please, I'm not trying to belittle you, but please get off your computer, leave the house, and go for a nice summer drive. And do yourselves a favor and stop obsessing over petty, even nonexistent, internet drama. Its really not worth it. Man, I'v ignored this thread for a while, but I can't believe this conversation is still going on. [wis]

Let me make this crystal clear for the both of you, the leadership of ImmInst is not "the man", we just don't want to die.

By the way Susma, there is no hierarchy such as you are suggesting. Each position you've listed (directors, navs, advisors, and editors) have specific duties. Navigators are primarily responsible for forum maintainence, but other categories such as advisors will also sometimes help out with this task. Everyone helps out everyone here and we really do try to maintain a democratic and transparent environment. I mean come on Susma, you must admit that we are fairer than most other internet sites, right?

Later
Don

[Chip]

"please get off your computer, leave the house, and go for a nice summer drive."

done that, been there. After hanging out with one of my kids at our local public pool for his swimming lessons dropped by Fry's and picked up a 160 gigabyte hard drive for our new family computer ($40 on sale). Tomorrow we plan to go to a little specialized zoo and park and the next day to a theme park with "circus trees" oh my. I mean, no need to assume I at least don't have a life, Mr. Spanton. I know you state that you are not trying to belittle but, you are.

"stop obsessing over petty, even nonexistent, internet drama."

Nonexistent? Must you lie like a dog, Don?

"there is no hierarchy such as you are suggesting"

Ooh, you've found the exalted super pure governing principle! Oh, my, no hierarchy here? You wouldn't be trying to mislead us now, would you? Resign your membership in the elite then, prove your slip shod blathering. Show us how you can become just a basic member. If there is no hierarchy then you have no special privileges to lose. Go for it.

"democratic and transparent environment"

Oooooh, with maybe five to the minus tenth fraction of the human population involved at the extreme most, you really ought to get that perfect government out there to the masses. Transparent? HeeeeHeeeeeHaaaaaHaaaa. I know you must be joking. How many basic members don't have access to the Full Member Forums?

"we are fairer than most other internet sites"

I sure hope this internet thing is in its infancy cause if this is the fairest, we got a long way to go...

[Chip]

I count 2394 members of which 2228 are basic members with no access to the Full Member forums. Don't you think you were stretching that transparency claim a tad there Don? I mean, I mean, sounds like you got a faith based sense of reality there dude.

[DJS]

there is no hierarchy such as you are suggesting

Oh, my, no hierarchy here? You wouldn't be trying to mislead us now, would you? Resign your membership in the elite then, prove your slip shod blathering. Show us how you can become just a basic member.

You are misrepresenting my words and showing that you are not willing to dialog in good faith. I was referring specifically to there being a pecking order amongst leadership. It does not go director --> advisor--> navigator etc etc. If you think that, you are operating under a false assumption. Directors have more influence to be sure, specifically in that it is their opinion that counts on financial matters, but there is no pecking order as you and susma suggests.

That ImmInst has a certain level of tiered access can not be disputed. There is nothing wrong with this IMO. ImmInst is very upfront about the fact that there is not a great deal to gain by becoming a full member or having access to the full members forum. Well, there are some perks, but over all nothing that makes a full member have any advantage over a basic member. By contributing and becoming a full member, an individual is saying in no uncertain terms, "Hey, I care about this Institute, and I'm willing to pay the five bucks a month to help out in some small way." Basically, they are willing to support a cause they believe in. Now, some people can't afford the monthly fee, and trust me, I understand this. But just because they can't afford to be full members doesn't mean that they aren't treated as equals by the leadership here at ImmInst. Everyone is equal under the law.

It should also be noted that individuals who suffer from financial hardship can make a formal petition to leadership for reduced rates.

[Chip]

"such as you are suggesting"

Yes, would seem that I was taking the first of that sentence out of context. Guess we can chock this lil misunderstanding to the constitution listing them in numbered order. We can take it from you that the constitution should have listed them as being on equal status? Oh well. The constitution is just a bunch of BS anyways, thank you for pointing that out Don. Good to know the leadership is without hierarchy. Phew, and here I thought this thing had a clear demarcation and now I learn it is murky as hell. Thanks for clearing that up.

As far as the rest of your last post, promise them anything but don't you go about trying to dialog in good faith, mind you. Full members don't have any advantage over a basic member? How about basic member over one of the leadership? I mean this whole thread was about one of the leadership who apparently has no restrictions to any silly little user agreement.

DonSpanton: "Now, some people can't afford the monthly fee, and trust me, I understand this. But just because they can't afford to be full members doesn't mean that they aren't treated as equals by the leadership here at ImmInst.

Did you ever think that of the 93 percent of members here who are not full members, that affordability was not the major factor? Maybe they just don't cater to sink to the despotic? AND trust me, there is nothing equal about forum leadership not having to worry about infringing the user agreement when all us knaves are ready fodder for you wise guys and your stretching of imagination to levy moving posts and editing some and outright deleting some with no notice or explanation.

Don, FAITH BASED. Got it? That means any one who points out something closer to reality than your "we are beyond any criticism" perspective must be an enemy, some one who is not into "dialog in good faith." Nothing good faith about your spinning here, my friend.

[Chip]

Hmmm, 400+ views and more replies than a large majority of the posts relegated to the catcher. This thing might just reach a critical point, maybe it will take 1000+ views as with the poll on banning Nootropi, before some intelligent action will take place. Thank you for your contributions in that vein, Don. I am not holding my breath. I suspect this will just prove to be too uncomfortable to the powers that be and I will either be banned or the thread locked down. Either way, I stand vindicated as if I needed that. I am not an imbecile, as your brother in arms, the reverend prometheus preached. I don't need any thing other than my ability to admit when I'm wrong and see where I'm right to have my self esteem. Self-esteem seems to be far from some people's desires, so it goes.

---

edit by caliban: name change

Edited by caliban, 21 July 2005 - 02:37 AM.

[DJS]

To a certain extent you use to get under my skin Chip, but now you just amuse me. I view you as a curmudgeon, but in the final analysis an entirely harmless curmudgeon. Have fun posting down here in the catcher. [thumb]

[DJS]

No, its a conspiracy! [lol]

[Chip]

No its not contagious, Harold, authenticity is only for some. Right, Mr. Spanton?

[susmariosep]

Excuse me, and begging your pardon.


Here is again that assurance I assume of BJKlein, founder, owner, and chair of board of directors, to look into the complaint of Chip.

(July 3, 2005, #4 message of thread)

Chip, I fear you may be using your valuable energies to fight a paper tiger.  I'm sorry you feel this way.  I've found it helpful to remember that we're in this fight together against a common enemy rather than against each other.  If you feel you're hampered in making progress toward fighting death in anyway, ImmInst Leadership will be the first to help. 

Leadership has the ability to check ISP, but this is not a perfect system as any new member can sign on from a different computer or change their ISP information through their computer. 

Regardless, Leadership takes your concerns seriously and have already created a leadership thread where this topic is discussed.

Regardless, Leadership takes your concerns seriously and have already created a leadership thread where this topic is discussed.

Are we going to see the results of your discussion any day now?

Many periods of 48 hours have lapsed already.

3) Directorial votes will be made available to voting for no less than forty-eight (48) hours.
http://imminst.org/a...itution.php#dir

------------------

Malicious Attacks: ImmInst has a zero tolerance policy for any individual or group which tries to disrupt the usual flow of information in the ImmInst forums or chat room.  Examples include, but are not limited to, such things as spamming and hacking.  Such individuals will be banned from posting either immediately or after due warning depending on the incident.

Authority: ImmInst Leadership has the authority to edit, move or remove any post which does not follow Posting Guidelines. ImmInst leaders will use this authority only if they feel the mission is in jeopardy.
http://imminst.org/a...stitution.php#a

The question is what if a leader is accused of malicious attacks and who leaders will sit in judgment over him?


Susma

[Mark Hamalainen]

The question is what if a leader is accused of malicious attacks and who leaders will sit in judgment over him?

Susma and Chip, what are you trying to achieve here? Is this petty squabling going to further to cause of immortality research? All I see is intellectual masturbation.

[Chip]

I don't want to spend the time to summarize the situation for you, osiris. If you can't read the first post and don't want to dig deeper, then fine, be that way. If you are truly concerned then read and see if you can make a contribution, otherwise offer some wise crack, if that is all you are capable of, thank you. I see the main efforts offered by members of the leadership who participate here is in keeping with that strategy. Maybe if you can show that you can be as vacant, you might be elevated to a position of power too.

BTW, I don't think masturbation is all that bad and intellectual masturbation, well, sometimes it can be pleasurable too. Sometimes "fleshing" out ideas can lead to insight and reward but there I go making an assumption, thinking reason can appeal to you.

[susmariosep]

All I want.


Here is what BJKlein says which I take to be a promise:

Regardless, Leadership takes your concerns seriously and have already created a leadership thread where this topic is discussed.

All I want is to read the findings of leadership who have already created a leadership thread where this topic is discussed.

Is that a legitimate curiosity here or am I conducting myself in an illegitimate manner?

I am fully aware that I have the option to just dis-involve myself from this thread, go away and pursue so many other important issues here than seemingly being wickedly attentive here, as some kind of a participant, but I just can't resist being an audience in a scene like the proceeding of a court trial, so much more enjoyable and instructive if I am a member of the jury and unlike conventional jury I can contribute some personal views, and do some research contributions from the arsenal of law.


Here is my suggestion to Prometheus, which will save the highest leadership level, the Board of Directors, the awkward task of judging an advisor, a member himself of leadership itself, my suggestion namely:

Just apologize to Chip.

I am intently keen on whether the man has the magnanimity of heart and the logic of mind to apologize.


Susma

[susmariosep]

Or, what will happen?


The worst is for leadership here to lock Chip and Susma out of this ImmInst Org.*

Then it's good-bye here for Chip and Susma, not a new experience for myself and I know also for Chip.

Or Chip gets tired and just walks away from his complaint of a thread addressed to leadership here.

People do get tired or they do have other things more important or more pressing to attend to, than pursue a complaint against a leadership personality in a message board.

Then I will stop visiting this thread.

What will happen to the complaint? It will stand as a dead record in this forum.

Another thing that leadership can do is to lock up this thread.

When that happens, I don't know about Chip, but I will still be around because as I said earlier here we have got to give allowances to wielders of power if we want to play in their garden.

It is just a fact of life in private message boards; but even in a professedly democratic society outside, big business and big government whatever and however they present themselves as acting democratically, rule over us with no small amount of personal arbitrariety in pursuit of power, greed, or vanity, from the part of people in these establishments.


In the last analysis I am indulging in my curiosity; the last event here might be dismaying, but that is a fact of life for catering to my insatiable curiosity which is an enjoyable undertaking.

Susma

*When I was banned in the Straight Dope forum without any notice, I did some reading on the background and history of this forum. You know what I found out? There had been revolutions in this forum and I think there are two forums still flourishing that splintered off from the original stock.

And in a very ironic twist of fate, there was a very longstanding moderator there who got in conflict with other moderators and got herself also booted out from Straight Dope. She happened to be some kind of a lawyer and she sued Straight Dope, for what? for acting contrary to its own corporate constitution in booting her out.

[Chip]

Start with the imbecile remark, DUDE. Then go back through your posts one by one and see if you can address the other ad-hominem escapes from reason you used. And then you might explain why you seemingly endorsed a spamming ad-hominem chaotic cross poster and then you might address this claim that I called people sheep. Whether or not the evidence still exists does not bely what you and I know unless you twist your memory as much as you twist your words. Lets, see. And then you might try finding the idea of making a fake persona to attack me as horrendous whether or not you did it. You should also go and pick and quote any or even some ad-hominem resorts I have made as you have continually accused me of such insults and post them here. If you are unable to find any near to the frequency you have claimed, then you owe me an apology about that false denigration also.

Those eloquent words of Susma "I am intently keen on whether the man has the magnanimity of heart and the logic of mind to apologize" even if partly or wholely realized will be no guarantee that you wont use the same tactics with another at this forum some day. I'd really rather Imminst wake up and smell the roses and take you out of a postion of authority here but that is probably as remote as any sincere apology.

[Chip]

Oh, and that SENS post, admit it was wrong for you to have moved that. Oh and the moving of this thread to the Catcher. If you can not give evidence as to why that was in order, then you should get real with that too, Harold.

Fat chance, huh?

[Kalepha]

With all due respect to ImmInst and its more active members, I think you’re taking the occurrences and operations of a web site far too seriously, Chip. The internet, fortunately, is laissez faire. It’s a mistake to have the inclination to be a cyber-radical.

Also, by choice, you’re the one suffering the most.

[Chip]

No, no Nate. The internet is not "laissez-faire." Lots of different, millions, maybe tens of millions or more different things are happening via the web every day. I don't think you can make the over-all classification of its operations so casually except only speciously. Sometimes it manifests as a steaming jungle with predators, a "live and let die" perspective that is conniving and treacherous in its manifestation. The internet is what it is. I wont pretend to know that it is of one kind of temperament.

I think the radicals are those who corrupt human social experiments. I don't like to see them fail. I don't see any fault. People are corrupted, no doubt. They are duped some how or other over time to support an agenda that is counter to human welfare even to the point of obscuring that agenda from themselves and others. Don't take pains to keep them out of your social experiment and the experiment will fail. It only takes a little of the wrong kind of ill will to curtail all of the good will going on. Whether or not I stay wont make any difference. The problem will continue to impinge upon Imminst's seeking of its goals.

Wee, Susma, what was that thing about the ex-board member of an online forum suing the forum founders for kicking her out due to trangressions of the constitution? Straight Dope forum? Got an URL for that? I'll go see if I can find it. Hey, Bruce, I hope you don't have a monster on your hands.

[Chip]

Lie: Terri Schiavo had no MRIs
Lie: Terri Schiavo's case was one of euthenasia

It's only slander or libel if it ain't true, ax-man.

[DJS]

Wee, Susma, what was that thing about the ex-board member of an online forum suing the forum founders for kicking her out due to trangressions of the constitution? Straight Dope forum? Got an URL for that? I'll go see if I can find it. Hey, Bruce, I hope you don't have a monster on your hands.

Is this some kind of threat Chip?