7 replies to this topic

[serp777]

Hello, first post on the forum. My monkey will be taking a significant dose of dxm for his 21st birthday instead of drinking heavily; actually a relatively small dose compared to those 1,800 mg user idiots. My monkey considers DXM, based on what he knows, to be less damaging than huge binge drinking based on avaliable studies.

 

My monkey will be taking approximately 175-200 mg of dxm in the form cough syrup (pure dxm cough syrup). He will then be using marijuana to potentiate the effects in order to mitigate the damage of using. He will also be drinking beer mildly because my monkey heard that some ethanol can prevent some of the nasty side effects while also potentiating the trip.

 

Additionally, he will be using several supplements to further prevent long term damage including

 

Green tea extract

Omega 3 approxiamtely 1 g

Magnesium l threonate (for the NMDA antagonism) 2g

coq 10 enzyme 200 mg

Considering caffeine 200 mg

L glutamine 1.5 g

vitamin C 1 g

 

My monkey is unsure whether to take the supplements before(how long before), during, or after the trip, as my monkey is concerned about possible interactions. my monkey is also wondering what dosages of the supplements he should take, and whether stacking caffeine as an additional stimulant is even a good idea. Monkey will also probably down most of this stuff with a bottle of neuro bliss that contains additional theanine and chamomile.

 

Please advise my monkey and thank you.

[YOLF]

I hope that's not your real name...

[serp777]

I hope that's not your real name...

 

I made an acc from facebook, and this forum has the stupid functionality that won't let you change your name until 10 posts. But there are many Aubrey Russells out there so it doesn't really matter. And it's not my full name anways. Plus this is for my monkey.

 

*And there's nothing illegal about this dosage technically.

 

Maybe you've already had too much DXM if you think your employers are going to believe that you're giving this stuff to you monkey... on YOUR birthday... Good thing you're not the only AR. Just too bad trackers are able to make associations beyond what we common men think are possible and make the info available to HR people... Be careful! This is the Internet (Sparta)! lol

 

Well good luck...

Edited by cryonicsculture, 24 May 2014 - 04:57 AM.

[Flex]

DXM per se is an NMDA antagonist, so taking Magnesium is for this purpose worthless( unless its protective in other ways).

 

Green tea extract has been shown to release Glutamate

 

(-)-Epigallocatechin gallate, the most active polyphenolic catechin in green tea, presynaptically facilitates Ca2+-dependent glutamate release via activation of protein kinase C in rat cerebral cortex

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/17663453

 

but also shown to protect from Glutamate

 

EGCG protects HT-22 cells against glutamate-induced oxidative stress

http://link.springer...1007/BF03033331

 

THC + DXM could be problematic

Because both inhibit the adrenergic alpha2 receptor in the Prefrontal Cortex,

and therefore elevate the Glutamate ammount

 

Alpha-noradrenergic receptor modulation of the phencyclidine- and delta9-tetrahydrocannabinol-induced increases in dopamine utilization in rat prefrontal cortex.

http://www.ncbi.nlm..../pubmed/9414014

 

http://en.wikipedia....Olney's_lesions

In medical settings, NMDA receptor antagonists are used as anesthetics, so GABA_A receptor positive allosteric modulators are used to effectively prevent any neurotoxicity caused by them.^[9] Drugs that work to suppress NAN include anticholinergics,^[10]benzodiazepines, barbiturates^[11] and agonists at the alpha-2 adrenergic receptor in the brain, such as clonidine. Conversely, coadministration of NMDA-antagonists with alpha-2 adrenergic antagonists, like yohimbine could theoretically potentiate NAN (NMDA receptor antagonist neurotoxicity)

 

And using glutamine with this is also not good

Because overstimulation of AMPA or Kainate receptors will also lead to cell death.

 

You need to find something to mix it with DXM.

Or better, avoid it and take something else

But also do a request like here or a recherche before mixing something

It could get terrible wrong i.e. cause perresistent impairments ( just look at the "please help me" threads!) and/or Brain hemorrhage etc.

 

Btw: Be carefull with glutamate! a buddy has done ketamine with Marihuana and is fucked up

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Flex, 24 May 2014 - 04:41 AM.

[serp777]

How much ketamine did the person do and how much did he smoke? Just so my monkey can get a baseline. Any idea on what his mg/kg ratio was?

 

Also I think the actual component of MgT that provides any real benefit is the threonic acid component. Certain anti depressants are known to increase threonic acid in the brain, although causation has not been established. 

And since ethanol has a somewhat similar effects to benzos, will it prevent neurotoxicity in low doses?

 

"THC + DXM could be problematic

Because both inhibit the adrenergic alpha2 receptor in the Prefrontal Cortex,"

Is the combinaton synergenic in such a way that would be worse than simply using more dxm?

or maybe more marijuana and less DXM would be the better route/combination.

 

Monkey will definitely take out the L glutamine though. is there anything my monkey can take that will decrease the levels of glutamate?

 

Finally, Olney's lesions don't have supporting evidence in primate studies with high doses of PCP (the most damaging of the antagonists) .

http://www.erowid.or...m_health2.shtml

Although Olney's lesions do not occur in primates, because primates have a slower brain metabolic rate than rats, there are some other effects on LTP that are undesirable.

What do you think about the addition of caffeine though?

Thanks for your comments and assitance

Edited by serp777, 24 May 2014 - 05:02 AM.

[Flex]

Your welcome.

I just try to help to prevent a lasting incident.

 

Dont know i guess he smoked much, actually it was a guy whos worked at a gas station near my job.

So he told that he did this and dissapeard a few days after out of  the nothing.

( he was 19 and planned to study Psychology, so he wanted to work further 1-2 months to gather some money)

When someone sent a message and asked him: "Hi how You´re doing", his response was just "Hi"...

which was very unusual

 

I heard allready that about Onleys lesion in primates.

But I wanted to point out that a2 antagonism could be problematic.

I just couldnt find the study which states that dopamine d2,d3 and adrenergic a2 inhibition lead to an increase of glutamate in the Cortex.

 

I cant say annything about their potencies for the a2, neither if its better to change the THC+DXM ration.

I guess Tumeric or Ashwagandha (the sensoril brand is better because it does not thinns the blood i.e. anticoagulant) "should" help

although I didnt recherched them extensively in regards to NMDA antagonsim and cant say it for sure.

 

You have to look whether caffeine is good or bad for glutamate toxicity or if low does of alcohol do rather increases glutamate than higher doses and to what extend.

 

Edited by Flex, 24 May 2014 - 05:31 AM.

[serp777]

Yes, thank you for preventing a potential glutamate neurotoxicity predicament. You may have saved my monkey from ending up in the "please help me!" section of the forum.

 

It seems like increasing the dosage of COQ 10 is the solution to the glutamte problem. Perhaps 400 mg of coq 10?

 

Theory-

"Glutamate results in cell death by turning on the N-methyl-D-aspartic acid receptors (NMDA); these receptors cause an increased release of calcium ions (Ca2+) into the cells. As a result, the increased concentration of Ca2+ directly increases the stress on mitochondria, resulting in excessive oxidative phosphorylation"

 

COQ 10 has strong antioxidant properties that affect mitochondria directly. it seems like this would mitigate excessive oxidation in cells resulting from too much glutamate.

It also seems like somehow reducing the concentration of Ca2+ might be an effective way to prevent damage while allowing for high levels of glutamte.

 

Perhaps a calcium channel blocker in small doses would be appropriate. And perhaps reducing calcium in the diet would also be an effective method of reducing Ca2+ (avoid dairy before DXM usage).

 

 

[niner]

Instead of either a DXM trip with attendant polypharmacy or binge drinking, how about you consider LSD or psilocybin in reasonable doses, or something else that doesn't run a risk of really messing you up?  There's also the classic (and even legal) tradition of drinking when you turn 21.  It probably wouldn't be a new experience for you, but there is a way to have fun with alcohol without particularly harming yourself- just drink til you're buzzed and then back off.  Hangovers come from being stupid with alcohol.  Your DXM dose doesn't sound like one that would have a high likelihood of harming you, FWIW.  The best mitochondrial antioxidant is probably c60 olive oil, which should be taken well before any mitochondrial insult is planned.