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Convincing the Doctor it's "HPA Axis Dysfunction", not anxiety...

anxiety hpa axis

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#1 Rozzy80

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Posted 04 July 2014 - 01:06 AM


Hello everyone --

 

I've been living with what I believe to be HPA Axis Dysfunction for about 13 years now (I am now in my early 30's).

I don't really need to get into specifics as I'm sure most of you know what this entails (Too hot, too cold, poor stress response..etc).

 

But I'm wondering, have any of you been able to bring this up to your Doctor and is it recognized by the medical establishment as a real condition?

 

My doctor seems to think all of the nervous system imbalance is due to General Anxiety Disorder when all this time I've never actually been anxious about anything. I've remained quite happy, my nervous system just is out of sorts. He even sent me to a psychiatrist to see if there was anything psychiatric going on and the psychiatrist said "No. It must be something physiological." Yet, my Doctor still tried to put me on SSRI's and both of them (Paxil and Effexor) actually DID affect my mood (in a negative way).

 

Would medication to treat GAD be effective in rebuilding and balancing the HPA axis as well?

 

Which medications would be most effective in this manner?

 

 

Thanks in advance for any input!

 

 


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#2 tunt01

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Posted 04 July 2014 - 05:42 AM

HPA Axis dysfunction should be evaluated by a psychiatrist who really understands neuro-endocrine pathways (neuropsychiatrist).  For example, you could go to a endocrinologist (run of the mill endo who understand endocrine behavior in general) and have them evaluate your HPA by doing a 24 hour cortisol urine test or some kind of stress response test.  While the endo can probably characterize the broader endocrine dysfunction (if that is indeed the issue) the neurological implications of that would better be evaluated by a neuro-psych.

 

5-HT receptors are implicated in HPA pathways, but I'm not sure they are the best answer to the issue.  It's something I've been reading about recently.  Escitalopram and Fluoxetine were the two most common drugs used in the last review I read on the matter.  Lithium was also noted.  If I had a choice between lithium and another drug, I would personally pick lithium given its prior data shown to extend life.  However, my first thought would be to try valproic acid (valproate), which is proven to modify epigenetic pathways associated with HPA dysfunction.  Valproate seems to be the best solution from a medication standpoint, as far as I can tell at this time.

 

Exercise is also highly recommended (improve stress response/capacity), environmental enrichment, quality sleep, controlled blood sugar, are all important to maintaining your HPA.

 

If you have HPA dysfunction, I'm not sure it will ever be normal.  I don't know if you can rebuild certain receptors like GR, such that you have appropriate stress response and can stop taking a drug like valproate.  It's something I've been researching for a little while and I just don't know the answer (and I'm not sure anyone has them yet).  I'd be curious to hear any future results you have and I sympathize with your frustration.

 

 


Edited by prophets, 04 July 2014 - 05:51 AM.

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#3 Tom_

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Posted 05 July 2014 - 12:06 PM

HPA axis dsyfunction isn't a disorder or syndrome. It quite simply doesn't happen. Certain endocrine disorders obviously effect the HPA axis - adrenal insuffiency for example (not adrenal fatigue which is psudoscientific rubbish).

 

Abnormal functioning of the HPA axis has been implicated in certain affective disorders (Generalized anxiety, Severe and/or Psychotic Major depression).

 

There is also Dysutonomia which can be caused by various disease processes and can also be direct pathology of the autonomic NS. While not often having anything to do with the HPA system it often produces certain similar symptoms. Most of these disorders are very rare.

 

If you do manage to convince a doctor you are suffering from HPA axis syndrome they should be imediately stopped from practicing medicine.

 

It is unlikely you have anything other than a psychiatric disorder. GAD doesn't require there to actually be any psychic anxiety. A somatiziation disorder isn't out of the question.

 

A Neuropsychiatrist would be absoutely no help. They specailize in psychiatric sqeulay from Neurological disorders, and the diagnosis and management of Neuropsychiatric disorder  (traumatic brain injury, Sezuire disorders, Somatiform disorders, physiological sleep disorders, parkinsons, Dementia syndromes etc...). Occationally Neuropsychiatrists may become involved in other disorders causing psychiatric symptoms (that aren't psychiatric in orgin) but this tends to be delt with by General psychiatrists.

 

You absoutely should chase down any REASONABLY possible non-psychiatric disorders. Standard bloods should be taken. Thyroid function tests (hypothyroidism is the most common disorder causing psych symptoms), Liver function tests, Full/complete blood count, fasting glucose/HBA1c and a basic metabolic pannel.

 

Being/having particually underweight, have stringly hair, grossly overweight, have severe strech marks, suffer from severe and utterly debiliating fatigue, atypical psychotic episodes, pre-syncopy/syncopy on standing (othostatic hypotension), excessive thirst, dizziness, vertigo, heat intolerance, family history of similar symptoms, family history of endocrine of genetic disorders, myadrias, medically unexplained pain, use of endocrine drugs, moon face, insomnia/hypersomnia, abnormal sex drive, repeated infections, myalgia, athragia, cognitive dsyfunction noticable by others, hypercholestrolemia, abnormal appetite, salt cravings, low or high blood preasure, cold intolerance, abnomal bowl movements, hypermobility, easy brusing, body tanning...a good mix of these is an indicator of an endocrine or neurological disorder.

 

A full list of symptoms would be useful.


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#4 holdout

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Posted 11 July 2014 - 08:47 PM

Your doctor (general practitioner / family physician) doesn't understand what you mean which is why you're getting nowhere, since they don't specialize in such specifics  You must request a referral to be seen by an endocrinologist, who will be able to order a blood panel to check your hormone levels, and determine if you qualify for hormone replacement therapy or what medications you can take to have good hormonal response.

 

You can take cognizin to boost all hormones: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognizin but really though, you shouldn't take any action without running blood tests with an endocrinologist first, because you need to differentiate between whether it's something like hypopituitarism or if you're drinking too much alcohol and messing up your hypothalamus, etc.  There could be many causes.  You could cause severe adrenal fatigue, etc. if you take action without figuring out definitively what is wrong with you first!

 

Medication for GAD such as Effexor (venlafaxine) would only slightly influence hormonal levels as they deal with neurotransmitters only.  And benzodiazepine-class medications wouldn't influence much at all either.



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#5 tunt01

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Posted 30 July 2014 - 04:45 PM

HPA axis dsyfunction isn't a disorder or syndrome. It quite simply doesn't happen. Certain endocrine disorders obviously effect the HPA axis - adrenal insuffiency for example (not adrenal fatigue which is psudoscientific rubbish).

 

 

Abnormal functioning of the HPA axis has been implicated in certain affective disorders (Generalized anxiety, Severe and/or Psychotic Major depression).

 

There is also Dysutonomia which can be caused by various disease processes and can also be direct pathology of the autonomic NS. While not often having anything to do with the HPA system it often produces certain similar symptoms. Most of these disorders are very rare.

 

If you do manage to convince a doctor you are suffering from HPA axis syndrome they should be imediately stopped from practicing medicine.

 

 

 

I don't think anyone is advocating a new condition or disease type called "HPA axis syndrome".  Dysfunctional behavior by HPA misprogrmamed is well documented, studied and characterized in both humans and animal subjects.  I think a differential stress-response is reasonably characterized as dysfunctional. 

 

After having read about 20 papers on the subject, I really think your comments are misguided and I would encourage you to read the work of Moshe Szyf, Frances Champagne, Michael Meaney, and others who have focused on maladaptive programming of the HPA and serotonin (5-HT) systems.

 

 

 

Being/having particually underweight, have stringly hair, grossly overweight, have severe strech marks, suffer from severe and utterly debiliating fatigue, atypical psychotic episodes, pre-syncopy/syncopy on standing (othostatic hypotension), excessive thirst, dizziness, vertigo, heat intolerance, family history of similar symptoms, family history of endocrine of genetic disorders, myadrias, medically unexplained pain, use of endocrine drugs, moon face, insomnia/hypersomnia, abnormal sex drive, repeated infections, myalgia, athragia, cognitive dsyfunction noticable by others, hypercholestrolemia, abnormal appetite, salt cravings, low or high blood preasure, cold intolerance, abnomal bowl movements, hypermobility, easy brusing, body tanning...a good mix of these is an indicator of an endocrine or neurological disorder.

 

 

 
I'm not sure if you view HPA dysfunction solely through the antiquated lens whereby a maladaptive state is only due to a tumor or some kind of persistent, very obvious manifest biological problem rather than a transient state due to behavioral misprogrammings.
 
I reiterate my prior viewpoint and disagree with your comments.
 
 
Example literature:
 
 
 
In addition to these review papers, I recommend this interesting lecture by one of the thought leaders in this area Dr. Szyf:
 
 

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