26 replies to this topic

[kevin]

I thought this was an interesting site..

http://www.churchofr...m/welcome_home/

[signifier]

"Communion in the Church of Reality is ordering a pizza together."

Yes.

[th3hegem0n]

Hahaha... I didn't think I'd ever identify with ANY religion.

Guess someone proved me wrong [lol]

[th3hegem0n]

On December 25th we celebrate Newton's Birthday because Newton actually was born on December 25th. And it's not a coincidence that it's the same day as Christmas and the Yule holiday where Christmas came from. It is the day that we celebrate the What is the Tree of Knowledge?, which represents the sum total of all human understanding. We use the traditional pine tree, which is already a very fractal looking tree to represent the Tree of Knowledge. The tree is decorated with lights and ornaments symbolizing The golden router or the Internet. Lights on the tree represent servers on the internet where information is stored and made available to all of humanity. The wires represent the fiber optic cables used to move information between the servers and around the tree. In the Church of Reality, we tend to choose lighted wires and strings of light that make the wires look alive, as if they were carrying information. The more complex the lighting is, the more glorious the tree.

We also put presents under the tree, which symbolizes that everything we know today is a gift from the past, that all our knowledge comes from other people and that the Tree ties us all together. The Tree gives to us, and we give back to the Tree. We celebrate, in community, that we are one planet, that we are all here together, and that we are all one with the Tree. Exchanging gifts symbolizes the exchange of ideas that makes humanity what it is. We share our ideas with others and others share their ideas with us. And it is the sharing that allows all of us to rise together

[cyric]

It's a finely wrought psychological tool used to ensnare and brainwash people inth their "group" (aka. cult), nothing more. Either that or they actually believe the bulltwang they spread. I'm not religious (I don't attend a Church or a service, I don't pray), but I believe in A god.

[Mark Hamalainen]

Bizarre... and scary.

[cyric]

Do you mean my post, or the topic?

[kevin]

cyric,

The website does not discount the potential existence of a "God", just that they don't know that there is one or not, and as for cults

http://www.churchofr...g/wisdom/cults/

For the record, I do believe in A God as well.. but WHATEVER "God" is, is something so beyond my understanding that it is a complete waste of my puny mental resources to discern its nature.

What evidence do I have?

Reality exists.

but of course in order to prove that god is responsible for reality, one would have to be able to remove god and test if reality disappeared, a rather difficult prospect I think, but maybe there is some higher level dimensional being who is watching our three-dimensional reality evolve much the way we watch two-D movies and enjoying the story taking twists and turns that it can't predict... oh wait..I forgot.. God is all knowing... [lol]

Someone once told me... the ONLY thing you need to know about God is that there is one.. and it isn't YOU.. I agree with it being the only thing I need to know.. but as far as it not being me.. well... I believe the slightly modified version that in some way we collectively dynamically create a universal evolving God consciousness.

But when we die... we're dead.. game over... so at least in my case, one can believe in 'something' like 'god' without having to swallow the afterlife mythologies promulgated by so many 'cults'.

[cyric]

Good point. But many have said the smae thing. Unless God appeared and did a special for the news, I don't think we could prove or disprove it. But just because you can't see something doesn't mean you shouldn't believe it may exist (not intended towards you). Besides, reality MUST have come from somewhere. It can't just "appear".

[Mark Hamalainen]

Do you mean my post, or the topic?

I mean the 'Church of Reality'.

[DJS]

Besides, reality MUST have come from somewhere. It can't just "appear".

And where did God from?

Your probable response: God is infinite

My response: Why not just believe that the universe is infinite, cut out the extra step, and stop violating Occam's razor?

[DJS]

However, I should also state that there is nothing inherently wrong with Kevin's logic.

When you get to the level of abstraction we are discussing, the whole God question becomes rather void of meaning anyway.

Its almost like asking the ultimate "why" question. Why is there existence?

Kev's answer: because there is a God.

My answer: why not?

Both work just as well, and neither can be proven one way or the other, but again, what meaning does God have at this level of abstraction.

As you've said Kev, there is no salvation in this God (ie, "when we die its all over"), nor is there any direct causal influence as far as we can measure. So why believe in it? I mean, what's the appeal?

[cyric]

You don't have to worship god, just know that there is one (whatever their name and agenda). The Jews made a sort of theory called Khabala (the Tree of Life, the ten Divine Essences of God, and the Eyn Soph). The Eyn Soph is supposed to be that which gives God consciousness, and the Divine Essences are supposed to give him form of personality. Unfortunately, the higher levels of the Divine Essences and the Eyn Soph (being higher than Keter, Keter representing the Divine Crown of God (in accordance with his infinitness) are supposed to be above even the highest planes of thinking and comprehension available to Man. Look it up, it's quite interesting. I came across it because of my interest in Neon Genesis.

Besides, what else has a Supreme Being got to do with it's time (though being infinite in all respects means it is always in the same state and ever present in the future, past and present, so being as to be viewing all events simulteaniously.

[DJS]

Bizarre... and scary.

I don't know, I'm sure the people who thought up this idea are average secular humanists trying to package their message differently.

I do doubt that this idea will ever get off the ground though. Us free thinker types are notorious for our poor church attendance. As they say on the Chappelle Show, "When keepin it real goes wrong." [lol]

[DJS]

cyric

You don't have to worship god, just know that there is one (whatever their name and agenda). The Jews made a sort of theory called Khabala (the Tree of Life, the ten Divine Essences of God, and the Eyn Soph). The Eyn Soph is supposed to be that which gives God consciousness, and the Divine Essences are supposed to give him form of personality. Unfortunately, the higher levels of the Divine Essences and the Eyn Soph (being higher than Keter, Keter representing the Divine Crown of God (in accordance with his infinitness) are supposed to be above even the highest planes of thinking and comprehension available to Man. Look it up, it's quite interesting. I came across it because of my interest in Neon Genesis.

Besides, what else has a Supreme Being got to do with it's time (though being infinite in all respects means it is always in the same state and ever present in the future, past and present, so being as to be viewing all events simulteaniously.

Hey cyric, I'm not trying to convince you what to believe or what not to believe. The only pieces of advice I would offer is, one, never let your God belief get in the way of rational thought. Two -- and this one is important -- if anyone ever tells you that they're doing something in the name of God please realize that they're full of sh**. No one knows what "God's will" is, and if they tell you they do then they're a liar....correction, probably not a liar technically. More likely they are simply delusional. [sfty]

[kevin]

The 'appeal' of believing as opposed to not is that (for me) it feels 'right'. There is no real rationality behind picking one (non belief) over the other (belief) other than it makes sense to me that all things arise from something... even an infinite something, rather than 'nothing'. That being said, this belief is merely a footnote as far as its effect on my everyday life. I don't expect this 'something' to do things for me or respond to my 'will' in any way which can be reproducible if at all. I believe that the laws of physics allow for paranormal phenonmenon and we may find that there are 'rational' explanations for much of what legitimately occurs which we dont' understand. To make assertions exactly one way or the other closes one's mind to possibility when in reality if they're honest, they don't really know, and may miss important information through their prejuidices.

The universe is pretty big, and my brain is extremely small, so I have to make allowances.

[cyric]

DonSpanton, only a fool would need to be told as such, and I'm no fool, nor do I intend to suffer one.

But, in most biblical stories, God simply told the person he was speaking to, to trust in Him (tather giving him a reason why, or to prove that he wasn't crazy), and so they may also be treated as being delusional.

If I do something, it'll be for myself, not some slack arsed deity who's not doing his job/hobby, and not some fool who thinks he should get something for free (not aimed at you, if you're wondering). So if I discover something that would give me considerable (not political or financil) power, I'm gonna keep it to myself.

But it's nice to have something that you at least acknowledge may exist. You may think it "delusional", but it's better to hope there is something after life (other than death) to look forward to than be resigned to your fate.

[DJS]

You may think it "delusional"

No, again for the record, I do not view deism as delusional. I view dogma as delusional.

To make assertions exactly one way or the other closes one's mind to possibility when in reality if they're honest, they don't really know, and may miss important information through their prejuidices.

I completely agree Kev. I currently consider myself to be an agnostic atheist (Cosmos originally introduced me to this classification); meaning that I have no knowledge of god and therefore do not believe in it. What do I find "appealing" in my position? I guess its hard to put my finger on, but in some strange kind of way I think I "feel" freer without the presence of an omnipotent being.

But as I've said, I have nothing against your position, its a coin toss as far as I am concerned.

[DJS]

but it's better to hope there is something after life (other than death) to look forward to than be resigned to your fate.

Who said anything about being resigned to my fate? Why do you think I'm here.

By the way, sorry if I came off as condescending, it was not my intention.

[cyric]

You didn't so don't worry. But for all cases (unless proven to be wrong) openmindedness is good (unless it's for somethng terrible).

What I meant by "resigned to your fate", is IF you don't succeed in time, to attain physical immortality, then upon death, is your oblivion. Enen though I'm a pessimist, I'd like to have a positive look of the finality of life's end.

[kevin]

heh... omnipresent perhaps... like a warm cuddly blanket.. omnipotent.. well.. perhaps in the directive to evolve but other than that I really don't think 'it' can be be anthropomorphosized as having remotely human desires to manipulate reality.. but like I said.. I just don't like a vacuum I guess.

[cyric]

No one would, you'd have to be the ultimate pessimist. To realise the futility of life is to witness the death of it.

[th3hegem0n]

To realise the futility of life is to witness the death of it

Nothing wrong with imagining death. The only real worthwile idea is the imagination of what is possible before death.

It could be possible to have [all possible experiences] before dying. That's what I'm shooting for.

Because, then, what is death other than the only experience you haven't already had? (or probably have already had, virtually, many times)

[kevin]

uhmmm.. death is not an experience, dying is... death is just ..... dead.

[Jay the Avenger]

Be sure to check out Marc Perkel's other sites.

www.perkel.com

marc.perkel.com


He's the most dangerous mind on the Internet.

[justinb]

uhmmm.. death is not an experience, dying is... death is just ..... dead.

Pass the joint...

[kevin]

quit makin fun of my avatar pipsqueak..