28 replies to this topic

[Hologram]

About a week ago, I was able to quiet my mind down after my thoughts cycled for some time and eventually fall asleep. Now, my heart palpitates when I'm on the verge of falling asleep and I get a burst of adrenaline and fear(I'll even imagine hearing something like a truck) . When I get up(I'm not even sure if I slept) I'm covered in sweat, my eyes hurt, I'm having difficulty functioning(just things like getting dressed), and am scared to be honest. This has been one of the most difficult times I've had.

I'm considering being admitted to a psych ward. I'm talking to my psychologist and have been prescribed Mirtazapine(which doesn't help with the palpitations). Is there any advice you guys can give me? I've been trying to read through Hope and Help for Your Nerves, but it's been slow going with how I've been feeling.

I have difficulty letting go and untensing when I don't feel in control and this is just one of those situations. Please help.

Edited by Cerberus, 10 July 2014 - 10:58 AM.

[88LS]

Get Zolpidem from your doctor as a temporary solution, it will knock you out and give you a semi-decent nights' sleep. Then start working towards healthier holistic treatment methods for the long term such as healthy diet, exercise, meditation, CBT etc as a better way to treat your anxiety and insomnia problems.

[StevesPetRat]

Could we have a few more details? Has this happened before? Are you taking any supplements with stimulant, dopamine- or noradrenergic, or MAOi activity?

Without knowing more, try magnesium, selenium (200-400 mcg selenomethionine or 5-10 brazil nuts daily), 100-1000 mg niacin(-amide if you don't like the flush), gelatin, progressive muscle relaxation, or exercise.

I have been through something like that and the hard core knockout drugs made it worse because I would fight off the effects as my heart was still racing (not to worry you but it turned out to be a viral myocarditis, ha, luckily I didn't die I guess but the doctor I see at the time just wanted to up my Xanax dose). Point being the gentle methods may work better paradoxically. Maybe put on some podcast or music or something so you don't imagine the truck going by.

Edited by StevesPetRat, 10 July 2014 - 01:55 PM.

[Hologram]

Could we have a few more details? Has this happened before? Are you taking any supplements with stimulant, dopamine- or noradrenergic, or MAOi activity?

Without knowing more, try magnesium, selenium (200-400 mcg selenomethionine or 5-10 brazil nuts daily), 100-1000 mg niacin(-amide if you don't like the flush), gelatin, progressive muscle relaxation, or exercise.

I have been through something like that and the hard core knockout drugs made it worse because I would fight off the effects as my heart was still racing (not to worry you but it turned out to be a viral myocarditis, ha, luckily I didn't die I guess but the doctor I see at the time just wanted to up my Xanax dose). Point being the gentle methods may work better paradoxically. Maybe put on some podcast or music or something so you don't imagine the truck going by.

 

I was taking Tianeptine and Strattera, the latter of which I thought would improve sleep(I was able to nap on it before this nightmare). I've started taking Natural Calm magnesium and I'll think about getting ahold of those other supplements. This is the first time this has happened, I've almost always crashed after getting sleepless nights.

 

My heart starts palpitating as soon as I get in bed, my mind sees sleep as a fight-or-flight risk or something. I'm trying to relax but I get worked up over the techniques and it becomes difficult. I used stress as my main motivator and now I see that things will need to change.

 

Thinking about playing a track at night. Is sleep hygiene something to look into? I don't actually know how far I'm getting into sleep.

Edited by Cerberus, 10 July 2014 - 07:46 PM.

[jroseland]

Melatonin supplemention is increasingly relevant in our technology addicted society, when we spend time after sunset staring at glowing screens screws up the circadian rhythm, it blocks the natural release of Melotonin, which allows us the get tired and fall asleep. This is what is happening if you've ever stayed up into the early morning playing video games or watching TV, then couldn't fall asleep even though you where obviously tired. Melatonin supplementation is important if you are burning the midnight oil working on your computer or hanging out in dark rooms. It's also a good idea to install F.Lux on your computer or iPhone so the bright lights (blue colors especially) don't effect your sleep cycle.

 

Sources: Melatonin is produced in the Pineal Gland, common food sources of Melatonin are olive oil, wine, tomatoes, walnuts and even beer. However, Metatonin comes in food sources in much smaller amounts so supplementation is the best option even if you have a good diet. Metatonin is most commonly taken in tablet form with monthly supplies starting at $5.

 

About a year ago I went through a bout with insomnia where I just couldn't seem to fall asleep unless I downed 3-5 glasses of red wine. I was able to replace my restless nights with seriously refreshing sleep with this bedtime regimen: 2-3 tablets of Melatonin and a glass of Chamomile tea.

 

Melatonin is also a favorite supplement of Lucid Dreamers, as it promotes the kind of deep REM Sleep that enables vivid dreaming experiences.

[adamh]

I suggest theanine for the anxiety, perhaps start with 100mg and titrate upward. I take a few grams a couple times a week but I'm a hardhead. For sleep, do not mess with zolpidem, any z drug or any benzo. They are only good for very short term and will mess you up bigtime if you take them for long. For sleep, I've found that 500mg or more of ornithine helps a lot, naicinamide 500mg helps, I've also had results with hesperidine, valerian root and 5htp. Melatonin may help but it gives tolerance rapidly. Just about everything gives tolerance.

[medicineman]

you might be getting night terrors. Pavor nocturnus. Your symptoms are identical.

"The universal feature of night terrors is inconsolability.[8] During night terror bouts, patients are usually described as "bolting upright" with their eyes wide open and a look of fear and panic on their face. They will often scream. Furthermore, they will usually sweat, exhibit rapid respiration, and have a rapid heart rate (autonomic signs). In some cases, individuals are likely to have even more elaborate motor activity, such as a thrashing of limbswhich may include punching, swinging, or fleeing motions. There is a sense that the individual is trying to protect himself and/or escape from a possible threat which threatens bodily injury.[5] Although children may seem to be awake during a night terror, they will appear confused, be inconsolable and/or unresponsive to attempts to communicate with them, and may not recognize others familiar to them. Occasionally, when a person with a night terror is awakened, he will lash out at that person, which can be dangerous for that individual.[3] Most people who experience this disorder are amnesic, or partially amnesic from the incident the next day.[2] Sleepwalking is another predisposition for the disorder.[4][9] Sleepwalking and night terrors are different manifestations of the same parasomnia disorder.[4]"

What I would do is rule out:

1- seizures
2- restless leg syndrome (and anemia)
3- obstructive sleep apnea

(Blood and basic biochemistry panel, iron and ferritin, EEG/provocation test, sleeping pulse oximetry/sleep study... your physician can investigate further tailored to whatever findings come up)

If it's none (and most likely will be, but I think it's worthwhile ruling them out as they can be miserable pathologies, but hugely beneficial if treated.) then a low dose benzodiazepine (according to Up-to-date, clonazepam .125mg - .5mg)

You might say that it's a pediatric affliction, but it could happen to adults, and is usually missed.

Edited by medicineman, 11 July 2014 - 02:24 AM.

[Hologram]

So, I did sleep for a little last night. My psychiatrist recommended staying up until 10 PM(he thinks my circadian rhythm is out of wack), I could only make it until 8 : 30 PM or so before a primal urge to sleep overcame me. Even then, I had some difficulty, I ended up getting out of bed and heading back around 9 : 33 PM where I did in fact sleep.

 

I'm more-or-less still when I get deep sleep, after that I woke up and had a few panic attacks, then I wrote out some of my symptoms on a journal by on my bed and tried to get back to sleep. I had some dreams but I don't think I got anymore deep sleep.

 

 

My mood was very dark a little while ago(I was feeling as if I were degenerating day-by-day), but I had a pack of sardines(EPA/DHA) and I feel much better. I think I may aggressively supplement with fish oil now.

 

 

I was involved in a TMS study for depression a little while ago but I've missed most of my days allowed to miss and I'm wondering if it would be something worth finishing if the fish had such an immediate benefit.

 

Some more random information: took a B-complex and I feel pretty wired right now, unwell but wired.

[medievil]

I recommened alimemazine, its my favorite antihistamine for sleep.

[Frigo]

Look into Hyponatremia, Hypokalemia, Hypomagnesemia and Hypoglycemia. All of these can cause various types of heart palpitations and mental effects.

 

What kind of heart palpitations do you experience? Weak or strong hearbeats, regular or irregular ones, added or skipped beats, normal or fast pulse, does it appear only when you are lying down and trying to relax or present regardless, what about your blood pressure?

 

Edited by Frigo, 11 July 2014 - 10:54 PM.

[protoject]

I'm not sure what this is but I used to get stuff like this a lot when I was younger. Over the years of reading about various things, and the fact that I experienced extreme depression/mood issues, I thought perhaps these sorts of issues could be from excessive REM sleep. If you haven't had a sleep study (polysomnograph) done, maybe look into that. Is it possible that you are falling into REM too quickly, or that you are coming out of it too quickly, without transitioning properly or having strong enough delta sleep???  Just a thought, maybe go for a sleep study and get back to me on that. If you could get a full report of your sleep stages maybe they'd have some idea of what was going on... even if it didn't match a specific sleep disorder perhaps you could at least get a copy of the data and ask around. (knowledgable specialists preferrably, on top of that maybe look into some research papers online?)

[abelard lindsay]

I take GABA when I have experienced the kind of thing you're talking about on my various supplement misadventures. It doesn't cross the blood brain barrier much but it does cause my body to chill out and calms me down a lot. I also find that at least for me, it doesn't cause tolerance and such like benzos would.

[Hologram]

I'll try to get ahold of GABA but to be honest, these last few days have been hard to live through. For some reason, it's difficult for me to not resist at a basic level, even with mindfulness and these other CBT-like techniques, I'm in a state of constant fight-or-flight right now. For most of my life I've managed my stress response but with the lack of sleep and the inability to enjoy even basic things, I haven't been able to calm down. In my desperation I pulled up fight-or-flight light therapy, that and some of the more unconventional treatments seem to be the only ones that don't require me to become a coma-dosed patient.

 

It's difficult to calm down when my thoughts are so focused on threats. Maybe I have adrenal fatigue or something, who knows. I'm going to go to a walk-in sometime in the morning to try and figure something out.

 

Maybe I'll be able to recover if I take some heavy sleep meds.

 

But now, I'm screwing up my sleep further by staying up and keeping you folks updated.

 

Anyway, I appreciate everything that I've been pointed towards please don't hold back if you know of anything else.

[Hologram]

Look into Hyponatremia, Hypokalemia, Hypomagnesemia and Hypoglycemia. All of these can cause various types of heart palpitations and mental effects.

 

What kind of heart palpitations do you experience? Weak or strong hearbeats, regular or irregular ones, added or skipped beats, normal or fast pulse, does it appear only when you are lying down and trying to relax or present regardless, what about your blood pressure?

 

 

Strong heartbeats accompanied by shocks of terror.

[StevesPetRat]

Have you been sick lately?

By the way, both of those meds can cause insomnia. Strattera I think would be especially prone to do so.

Edited by StevesPetRat, 12 July 2014 - 11:18 AM.

[Frigo]

 

Look into Hyponatremia, Hypokalemia, Hypomagnesemia and Hypoglycemia. All of these can cause various types of heart palpitations and mental effects.

 

What kind of heart palpitations do you experience? Weak or strong hearbeats, regular or irregular ones, added or skipped beats, normal or fast pulse, does it appear only when you are lying down and trying to relax or present regardless, what about your blood pressure?

 

 

Strong heartbeats accompanied by shocks of terror.

 

 

Do they get stronger when you are lying down trying to relax? If so, eat some chicken broth or bouillon and take Magnesium and Potassium before bed.

 

I eat chicken bouillon and take 2 tabs of Panangin (1 tab contains 158 mg Potassium Aspartate Anhydrate and 140 mg Magnesium Aspartate Anhydrate) before bed and it works perfectly. There must be similar products where you live. Just go to the pharmacy or your doctor and ask for a product for heart palpitations with Magnesium and Potassium in it.

 

Edited by Frigo, 12 July 2014 - 11:30 AM.

[Hologram]

Have you been sick lately?

By the way, both of those meds can cause insomnia. Strattera I think would be especially prone to do so.

Perhaps from stress? I've always had chronic fatigue, but for some reason near the start, I thought Strattera would help me sleep(it did when I was on it years ago). But it leaves me rolling around sweaty. I'm done with it, even if it does help with ruminating thoughts.

 

 

 

 

Look into Hyponatremia, Hypokalemia, Hypomagnesemia and Hypoglycemia. All of these can cause various types of heart palpitations and mental effects.

 

What kind of heart palpitations do you experience? Weak or strong hearbeats, regular or irregular ones, added or skipped beats, normal or fast pulse, does it appear only when you are lying down and trying to relax or present regardless, what about your blood pressure?

 

 

Strong heartbeats accompanied by shocks of terror.

 

 

Do they get stronger when you are lying down trying to relax? If so, eat some chicken broth or bouillon and take Magnesium and Potassium before bed.

 

I eat chicken bouillon and take 2 tabs of Panangin (1 tab contains 158 mg Potassium Aspartate Anhydrate and 140 mg Magnesium Aspartate Anhydrate) before bed and it works perfectly. There must be similar products where you live. Just go to the pharmacy or your doctor and ask for a product for heart palpitations with Magnesium and Potassium in it.

 

 

Yes, that's when they surge up, as if telling me to keep my body moving. I'm swallowing too and jerking around, it's probably a panic attack. It usually starts with the heartbeats though. I've always had adrenaline rushes when 'problems' come up and now without an answer in sight, I'm being a bit overwhelmed.

 

I'm trying Natural Calm as I noted before, could I take that with a banana? I'm going to visit a doctor today, so I might get around to doing that.

 

I was prescribed some Seroquel at a low dose, so I might get on that, just get some hours of sleep. I honestly feel like I'm about to fall asleep but as soon as I do blood pumps adrenaline into my limbs, at least that's how it feels.

Edited by Cerberus, 12 July 2014 - 12:44 PM.

[Hologram]

My heartbeat is faint and slightly hurried right now and I'm mostly just sitting. It's slowing down and I guess I'll try to have it looked at by a medical professional.

Edited by Cerberus, 12 July 2014 - 12:54 PM.

[Frigo]

I'm not sure if bananas are enough. I had no luck killing off my palpitations with bananas, however the aforementioned way to get Sodium, Potassium and Magnesium seems to work.

 

Please report if you have anything new.

[Hologram]

I'm not sure if bananas are enough. I had no luck killing off my palpitations with bananas, however the aforementioned way to get Sodium, Potassium and Magnesium seems to work.

 

Please report if you have anything new.

 

Going to visit the ER. I feel sick physically and mentally from sleep deprivation.
 

And my nerves have only become more frayed the further this has gone on. Everything is startling me now, thoughts, simple things, I can't lay down without having to get up, because my limbs are twitching when I'm about to fall asleep, or I feel dread in my stomach, or palpitations, whichever.

 

Thanks for the concern.

 

Also, here's a similar case: http://curezone.org/...m.asp?i=2011619.

Edited by Cerberus, 14 July 2014 - 06:03 AM.

[Frigo]

Any update?

[gnappi]

 

Look into Hyponatremia, Hypokalemia, Hypomagnesemia and Hypoglycemia. All of these can cause various types of heart palpitations and mental effects.
 
What kind of heart palpitations do you experience? Weak or strong hearbeats, regular or irregular ones, added or skipped beats, normal or fast pulse, does it appear only when you are lying down and trying to relax or present regardless, what about your blood pressure?
 

 
Strong heartbeats accompanied by shocks of terror.

 
Clearly you have a problem with your adrenergic system. Try taking phosphatidylserine 300mg, 3 times a day. It blocks the adrenergic system and has a strong anti stress effect.

[Frigo]

 

 

Look into Hyponatremia, Hypokalemia, Hypomagnesemia and Hypoglycemia. All of these can cause various types of heart palpitations and mental effects.
 
What kind of heart palpitations do you experience? Weak or strong hearbeats, regular or irregular ones, added or skipped beats, normal or fast pulse, does it appear only when you are lying down and trying to relax or present regardless, what about your blood pressure?
 

 
Strong heartbeats accompanied by shocks of terror.

 
Clearly you have a problem with your adrenergic system. Try taking phosphatidylserine 300mg, 3 times a day. It blocks the adrenergic system and has a strong anti stress effect.

 

 

His symptoms resemble electrolyte problems frequently encountered by people on dietary ketogenic diet, including me. Phosphatidylserine with its effect on ACTH and thus Aldosterone might make things worse.

Edited by Frigo, 03 August 2014 - 10:31 PM.

[Flex]

Dont know whether this may help or is sufficient enough.

But if You got the few bucks to spend, then try it with Berberine.

 

Here is why:

 

BER administration also significantly blocked the increase in hypothalamic CRF expression and TH expression in the locus coeruleus (LC) and the decrease in hippocampal brain-derived neurotrophic factor (BDNF) mRNA expression.

 

Effect of Berberine on Depression- and Anxiety-Like Behaviors and Activation of the Noradrenergic System

Induced by Development of Morphine Dependence in Rats

http://www.ncbi.nlm....les/PMC3526741/

 

As said I dont know whether its sufficent but Afaik, it should at least ease the Adrenaline burst a bit.

But ask You Doc whethr it is ok to take.

Just to be on the safer side and for the case You have problems with Your heart and this could somehow intefere

 

 

Edited by Flex, 03 August 2014 - 10:19 PM.

[agora]

What about something for cortisol? It may not be big but it will certainly help and is pretty sustainable. I would go with seriphos

Edited by lynfectious, 04 August 2014 - 04:37 AM.

[Dmonix]

Maybe melatonin or magnesium picolinate could help. Bought doxylamine succinate but haven't tested yet, maybe could help too.

[gnappi]

 

 

 

Look into Hyponatremia, Hypokalemia, Hypomagnesemia and Hypoglycemia. All of these can cause various types of heart palpitations and mental effects.
 
What kind of heart palpitations do you experience? Weak or strong hearbeats, regular or irregular ones, added or skipped beats, normal or fast pulse, does it appear only when you are lying down and trying to relax or present regardless, what about your blood pressure?
 

 
Strong heartbeats accompanied by shocks of terror.

 
Clearly you have a problem with your adrenergic system. Try taking phosphatidylserine 300mg, 3 times a day. It blocks the adrenergic system and has a strong anti stress effect.

 

 

His symptoms resemble electrolyte problems frequently encountered by people on dietary ketogenic diet, including me. Phosphatidylserine with its effect on ACTH and thus Aldosterone might make things worse.

 

 Phosphatidylserine decreases the levels of ACTH and thus cortisol and aldosterone (http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/15512856), thereby having a positive effect on reducing stress. I say this from  experience,  when I'm stressed I use  phosphatidylserine  with great results.

[kurdishfella]

 

 

Sleepwalking is another predisposition for the disorder.[4][9] Sleepwalking and night terrors are different manifestations of the same parasomnia disorder.[4]"

Magnesium causes me to sleepwalk and I know because I've opened my closed windows twice but I could have done it more times just not done anything. You can also sleep walk while in bed, because it is a certain condition of the brain it is in sometimes you wont go up at all from bed. But magnesium, vitamin D and C, niacin and zinc helps the immune system a lot maybe they need to be in balance so the brain also becomes balanced.

Edited by kurdishfella, 30 July 2021 - 11:44 PM.

[kurdishfella]

Maybe your diet is high in something that causes excess dopamine or adrenaline.