17 replies to this topic

[purerealm]

When I was young I felt like I could imagine anything inside my head, but for the past decade or so I have been feeling like there is just this fog inside my brain and I can't even picture things inside anymore. This is pretty unusual because I'm still pretty young at 18. I've been diagnosed with add-inattentive subtype and I've tried a whole lot of things to help clear up my brain but nothing seems to be helping. I still haven't been noticing the effects of ALCAR nor piracetam after taking them for a few weeks.

Any suggestions?

[wannafulfill]

what have you tried, specifically

[purerealm]

I did some research on the recommended dosages of piracetam and ALCAR, and found out that I capped them all at the wrong quantities, except maybe piracetam.
They're 00 caps, so I estimate them to be around 1.2 g when filled as much as possible.
I first started to take several piracetams at a time, around 3-4. Then I realized the half life was really short, so I started taking them 3 times a day instead of just once or twice.
Then when that didn't really work I did a mega attack dose and swallowed 10 of those 00 capped pills. Still nothing. All this time I've been supplementing with choline in the form of bitarate as well as lecithin granules. This is just for piracetam, with ALCAR I read that 2 g is too much so a little bit less than that is what I should be shooting for. I take them with the piracetam because they're supposed to be synergetic like the choline is. Right now the cap is full at 1.2g.

The one supplement I've tried that I feel works significantly is rhodeola rosea. Gets me nice and relaxed.

However, when I first tried taking all 3 I noticed that I was thinking more creatively and loosely. But as I DID take it with all 3 it was kind of hard to attribute which effects to which supplements. I take all 3 on a regular basis.

[purerealm]

I've also been on adderall concerta and strattera

[enemy]

How much sleep do you get at night?

[enigma]

purerealm,

Have you tried taking DMAE? For around 6 months this seemed to help me focus significantly, though its potency declines over time due to tolerance.

[vastman]

purerealm,

There are a number of things which may help clarity. I found the whole gammut of choline cycle supplements extreemely helpful. This includes citocoline, Phosphatidyl Choline, and centrophenoxine, which is far superior to DMAE. As soon as I added these compounds to my stack I achieved a whole new level of clarity, coherence, and focus. It is truely amazing.

Additionally, deprynil is very useful for ADD and while you are young, there's no reason for not trying small doses of it, as it is used to mitigate ADD in some circles.

I'd also suggest trying AOR's Ortho Mind, which has the best combination of neural augments I've found, in doses showing clinical effectiveness for conditions you describe. At least review AOR's very detailed information on each of the ingredients in Mind. (link to relentless improvement via supplements forum then bring up OrthoMind and read AOR's material included in this section. That way you could try one or more of the various compounds they bundle, as individually most of them are not too expensive. However, Mind packs a lot of punch for the $ and you get multiple synergistic augments i.e., a multi-pronged fork to try and solve your problems.

There are other things you might want to try, most importantly Galantiamine, noted for its exceptional ability to restore and maintain acetylcholine function and cognition in general.

I know you are posting in nootropics and not supplements, but it's all chemistry...and as you didn't spell out what you do take I figured I'd offer the above info.

Relentles has the best deals on AOR products and iherb has the best prices for the others that I've found to date.

Good luck....

[purerealm]

I hear all this talk about supplements working for people's "unique body chemistry." How well is this concept researched? I've read a post where a person said that choline supplements just don't seem to help him. I don't know where to start from here, especially because im a college student and very short on money. I think I might first try DMAE and one or two other supplements at first, along with my piracetam and ALCAR. Hopefully someday I'll be able to overcome this

[purerealm]

I go to bed late, at around 4 am, wake up around 10 to 11. im always tired throughout the day, and the quality of my sleep isn't so great either

[nuncle]

The effect of nootropics is likely to be fairly subtle compared to stimulants like adderall and strattera. Why did you stop taking these? Did they not work, or were there unpleasant side effects?

One thing you might want to try if you haven't already is a non-extended release stimulant drug. Some people who find concerta doesn't work for them do well on regular adderall or on ritalin. Strattera is a different class of drug (that targets primarily the noradrenergic system) and so may not help you much if your problem has a dopaminergic basis.

Of course, if you're only sleeping 6 or 7 hours a night, that could be your main problem--sleep deprivation is the quickest and best way to reduce your effective intelligence. Try sleeping 8 or 9 hours for a couple of weeks and see how that goes.

[vastman]

pure,

I too for years struggled with sleep issues and finally found I had apnea. they have simple home monitoring units that can determine if your sleep is being disturbed too often by apneas. It's worth checking out just to eliminate the possibility. While trying to figure my own problem out I covered lots of bases, ADD, fibromyalgia, chronic fatigue, and more as many such possibilities have symptoms similar to apnea which among other things basically boils down to sleep depravation, no matter how much sleep you think you are getting.

[purerealm]

i've had chronic insomnia for as far as I can remember. I've gone to a sleep clinic where they said that I had a very minor apnea. They also said that my oxygen saturation during sleep never dropped below 90%, which means that that can't be the problem. The problem with the stimulants wasn't that they had side effects. They give me a big boost in energy and I love it, however they don't give me the same boost in "mental energy".

I wouldn't doubt that sleep deprivation is the easiest way to reduce intelligence. I feel like a zombie all day and my productivity is next to nil.

I've already tried both adderall extended release and initial release, and as amphetamines are stronger than methylphenidate (what ritalin is), I don't think ritalin has much in store for me.

[nuncle]

I've already tried both adderall extended release and initial release, and as amphetamines are stronger than methylphenidate (what ritalin is), I don't think ritalin has much in store for me.

It's true that adderall is about twice as effective as MPH at equivalent doses, but that's not a big issue since one can always take twice as large a dose of MPH (though there is a greater possibility of side effects). The two have similar but not identical mechanisms of action, so it's entirely possible for you to benefit from one more than the other. Given that you don't seem to have much to lose, it might be worth giving it a shot. You could always try deprenyl too, which raises dopamine levels pretty much uniformly in the brain. Deprenyl also has amphetamine metabolites, though at safe doses (< 10 mg /day) probably not enough to achieve an MPH or adderall-type effect...

[alexoverhere]

What does your diet consist of? Seems like the natural question to ask, rather than what supplements you're taking or not taking.

Regarding measuring supplements, you might want get a cheap scale like http://balance.balances.com/scales/853 (although something that can measure milligrams is probably better).

[REGIMEN]

Ditto on the diet info request. Noticing from as far back as 8 years old is rather telling IMO as I have this dumb urge to assume most people diagnosed with some kind of "attention disorder" under the drinking age have just been chronically on a diet consisting of cafeteria-available foodstuffs the likes of which are made with nutrient-deficient ingredients like corn, white flour, fake cheese, fake flavor, and plenty of sodium. But remember that is just a "dumb urge to assume"(weak, I know) that your diet has somehow been tainted by "tastiness". Everybody needs a bit of tastiness every once in a while, though.

[purerealm]

Yeah, I think that might have something to do with it. I started eating a vegetarian diet from a young age, but as I was also very young, I'd only eat foods that also tasted good to me( ie junk foods), french fries, pizza, very starchy foods, foods very low in protein but in bad carbs etc. Now my diet has taken almost a complete turn and now I'm mostly eating proteins, milk, eggs, meat, etc supplemented by some veggies and such. I don't like sugary foods anymore and I'd say that I eat much healthier now.

[REGIMEN]

That's a very smart move, purerealm.

I'm mostly eating proteins, milk, eggs, meat, etc supplemented by some veggies and such.

Now, far be it from me to inhabit a seat of reputation that attracts my knowledgable opinion, but try switching it around to be, "I'm mostly eating veggies and such[fruits] supplemented by protein, milk, eggs, meat, etc." The biggest thing I noticed when I did this personally was to have a relaxed lightness bestowed upon my GI tract that many of our young populace loses a sensitivity to with each passing year of mindlessly practicing the black arts, otherwise known as overindulgence, particularly of sweets, treats, and meats.

[OvercastMind]

Hi, I'm 18 years old, and am experiencing the same kind of brain fog that you described. The constant lack of mental clarity/ "brain fog" has been the most frustrating thing that I have ever dealt with. It all started about a year and a half ago, and has been present ever since. I should note that when I first got it, it was after an intense panic attack/period of extreme anxiety. However now (over a year later) my life would be amazing if I didn't have this stupid "fog". I am about to enter college and try to pursue a career in film, which would not be an easy task with my cognitive abilities feeling dulled down. I was prescribed Adderall, Provigil, and antidepressants, and klonopin for anxiety, as I had been previously diagnosed with ADD and depression.. but nothing seemed to work.. the Provigil and Adderall almost felt like I was "warping my brain into thinking" when it couldn't. I felt more "rushed" but I still felt foggy and unable to think straight. Right now, I am not on any medication, don't use drugs recreationally, am eating extremely healthy all the time, and started taking multivitamins and stuff like (CoQ10, B-complex, niacin, magnesium, etc.)... So far, I haven't noticed any improvement, but am going to continue the healthy lifestyle. I noticed that moderate exercise does seem to help sometimes, but I can hardly ever motivate myself to do anything because I always feel like I need to "let my mind rest". Sometimes taking a 2+ hour nap in the daytime helps to relieve some of the symptoms, but I would rather not live my entire life like some lazy bum, when it doesn't really help that much anyway and then I'm unable to sleep at night when I'm supposed to sometimes. Even when I sleep in late on weekends until like 11:00 I don't feel at all "refreshed". It's a confusing situation, the "brain fog", I don't know what to do, but I'm getting help with an extremely highly rated Neurologist.

Purerealm; I noticed somewhere that you had wrote you're cognitive functions seem to have gone from 100% to 20%, and thats exactly how it feels with me.. I went to see a neurologist yesterday and told him all of my symptoms. He recommended that I take the following tests; an EEG, an MRI, and then have blood some blood work done. I'm hoping that this will root out the cause and help provide me with a final solution!!!!!! I'm literally sick of being unable to think clearly. I'm not going to accept going from an A+ student to struggling to keep a C- (among countless other problems) -_-. I wan't my mind back more than anything

Purerealm; Could I get your email by any chance? I noticed that you basically have the exact same symptoms as I do.. thanks. I could keep you posted on anything that works for me and vice versa.

Any advice from anyone would be helpful.

Edited by OvercastMind, 31 March 2009 - 04:48 AM.