612 replies to this topic

[normalizing]

simon and sally.... pfft lol

[resveratrol_guy]

 

Thanks RG,

 

Once you've taken a course of N injections... how long before the full effects materialise ?

 

Did you, Simon & Sally feel that the injections had _obviously_ had a definitely positive effect ?

Not just in terms of, for example,  balance or falling over.... but mentally, cognitively ?

 

playground
 

 

I think Sally benefitted the most, at least in a short term sense. She reported that the world stopped seasawing back and forth like a boat being tossed in the waves. (Apparently, she had had some sort of damage to the circuit which connects balance to spatial perception.) Simon's balance problem was more episodic, in that he was usually fine but occasionally lost orientation and fell over. Personally, I noticed within days that my spatial perception was quite a bit better, but otherwise the effects (such as improved mood) were slow and subtle in their accumulation, to the point that I cannot say from my own experience that it does anything at all in the long term; I'm relying on the study of cancer patients. That said, my MRI was relatively clear of small strokes, as compared to Sally's. So if we expect a vascular effect, then it's unsurprising that her effects were more obvious.

 

Sally and I have been emailing about this whole GCSF issue since her treatment 8 months ago. Yesterday, she wrote: "As for long term effects of GCSF are concerned now I am walking really fast comparable to what I could do when I was much younger. Unfortunately no change in my worst symptoms." So this sounds like brain stem benefits mediated by gradual revascularization. But it might be due to one of the other things she's been taking chronically. Her "worst symptoms" are general cognitive decline, which in my view are not beyond the reach of ketogenic diet, NGF, and other approaches. As you can see, she can still express herself quite sanely.

 

Simon's case is harder to analyze on account of the sporadic nature of his falls. He told me a few days ago that he hadn't fallen in at least a month, which is excellent, but not necessarily unprecedented in his past. At least, this seems to be stabilization in comparison to his prior frequency of falls. It remains to be seen. It may just be that people respond differently to GCSF for a variety of reasons. As you can imagine, it's hard to be precise about a compound which causes systemic effects mediated by stem cells.

 

It's also important to go where you can get the most repair for the dollar first, like NGF, maybe.

Edited by resveratrol_guy, 05 July 2015 - 04:05 AM.

[playground]

I think Sally benefitted the most, at least in a short term sense. She reported that the world stopped seasawing back and forth like a boat being tossed in the waves. (Apparently, she had had some sort of damage to the circuit which connects balance to spatial perception.) Simon's balance problem was more episodic, in that he was usually fine but occasionally lost orientation and fell over. Personally, I noticed within days that my spatial perception was quite a bit better, but otherwise the effects (such as improved mood) were slow and subtle in their accumulation, to the point that I cannot say from my own experience that it does anything at all in the long term; I'm relying on the study of cancer patients. That said, my MRI was relatively clear of small strokes, as compared to Sally's. So if we expect a vascular effect, then it's unsurprising that her effects were more obvious.

 

Sally and I have been emailing about this whole GCSF issue since her treatment 8 months ago. Yesterday, she wrote: "As for long term effects of GCSF are concerned now I am walking really fast comparable to what I could do when I was much younger. Unfortunately no change in my worst symptoms." So this sounds like brain stem benefits mediated by gradual revascularization. But it might be due to one of the other things she's been taking chronically. Her "worst symptoms" are general cognitive decline, which in my view are not beyond the reach of ketogenic diet, NGF, and other approaches. As you can see, she can still express herself quite sanely.

 

Simon's case is harder to analyze on account of the sporadic nature of his falls. He told me a few days ago that he hadn't fallen in at least a month, which is excellent, but not necessarily unprecedented in his past. At least, this seems to be stabilization in comparison to his prior frequency of falls. It remains to be seen. It may just be that people respond differently to GCSF for a variety of reasons. As you can imagine, it's hard to be precise about a compound which causes systemic effects mediated by stem cells.

 

It's also important to go where you can get the most repair for the dollar first, like NGF, maybe.

 

 

Thanks for the details RG,

 

I gather from your account on another thread that you've made enormous progress.

What do you think contributed the most to your recovery ?

 

playground.

 

[ceridwen]

Whilst NGF is undoubtably the best way to fix the damage it is also extremely important to stop the decline. 1 way to do this might be to eliminate tryptophan from the diet thus lowering serrotonin.

and by taking glyciene

raypeat.com/articles/aging/tryptophan-serrotonin-aging.shtml

MS seems to respond very well to stem cells

[resveratrol_guy]

Thanks for the details RG,

 

I gather from your account on another thread that you've made enormous progress.

What do you think contributed the most to your recovery ?

 

playground.

 

 

That's the $64,000 question, isn't it! I've taken so many experimental supplements, in addition to the usual basics like diet and exercise modification. It's just too hard to say. I suspect that, just like the scientists demonstrated in that famous study last year, if you do 10 or 100 things to help your memory, you may very well end up in remission, and will almost certainly improve. To that end, my next phase after Longvida basically entails dynamic brain health maximization, in the sense of reacting in real time to any detected inflammation or forgetfulness. Anyway, I don't want to derail this thread with all that, so I'll keep my reports on my own thread.

 

Secondly, one piece of good news: I managed to find the final video in Sally's GCSF interview series sitting around on my harddrive. Apparently, I had neglected to do file housekeeping after I uploaded it (fortunately)! Sally was quite pleased as well. We'll have to create a new YouTube account and upload it.

[playground]

 

That's the $64,000 question, isn't it! I've taken so many experimental supplements, in addition to the usual basics like diet and exercise modification. It's just too hard to say. I suspect that, just like the scientists demonstrated in that famous study last year, if you do 10 or 100 things to help your memory, you may very well end up in remission, and will almost certainly improve. To that end, my next phase after Longvida basically entails dynamic brain health maximization, in the sense of reacting in real time to any detected inflammation or forgetfulness. Anyway, I don't want to derail this thread with all that, so I'll keep my reports on my own thread.

 

Secondly, one piece of good news: I managed to find the final video in Sally's GCSF interview series sitting around on my harddrive. Apparently, I had neglected to do file housekeeping after I uploaded it (fortunately)! Sally was quite pleased as well. We'll have to create a new YouTube account and upload it.

 

 

Hi RG,

I don't know which study you mean. Do you have a link ?  No problem if you don't.

      Quote: ...like the scientists demonstrated in that famous study last year...

 

I'd be interested in seeing the video.... if that's okay.

      Quote:  ....video in Sally's GCSF interview series...

 

thanks

playground

 

Edited by playground, 08 July 2015 - 03:41 PM.

[resveratrol_guy]

 

 

That's the $64,000 question, isn't it! I've taken so many experimental supplements, in addition to the usual basics like diet and exercise modification. It's just too hard to say. I suspect that, just like the scientists demonstrated in that famous study last year, if you do 10 or 100 things to help your memory, you may very well end up in remission, and will almost certainly improve. To that end, my next phase after Longvida basically entails dynamic brain health maximization, in the sense of reacting in real time to any detected inflammation or forgetfulness. Anyway, I don't want to derail this thread with all that, so I'll keep my reports on my own thread.

 

Secondly, one piece of good news: I managed to find the final video in Sally's GCSF interview series sitting around on my harddrive. Apparently, I had neglected to do file housekeeping after I uploaded it (fortunately)! Sally was quite pleased as well. We'll have to create a new YouTube account and upload it.

 

 

Hi RG,

I don't know which study you mean. Do you have a link ?  No problem if you don't.

      Quote: ...like the scientists demonstrated in that famous study last year...

 

I'd be interested in seeing the video.... if that's okay.

      Quote:  ....video in Sally's GCSF interview series...

 

thanks

playground

 

 

 

I was referring to this well publicized antidementia study (which was more of a protocol development effort, than an attempt at cause-and-effect isolation).

 

I'm working on the video. I've just been overloaded lately, but will post a link here once I get it uploaded.
 

[playground]

 

 

Hi RG,

I don't know which study you mean. Do you have a link ?  No problem if you don't.

      Quote: ...like the scientists demonstrated in that famous study last year...

 

I'd be interested in seeing the video.... if that's okay.

      Quote:  ....video in Sally's GCSF interview series...

 

thanks

playground

 

I was referring to this well publicized antidementia study (which was more of a protocol development effort, than an attempt at cause-and-effect isolation).

 

I'm working on the video. I've just been overloaded lately, but will post a link here once I get it uploaded.
 

 

 

Thanks for the link RG, 

very interesting..... and much appreciated.

 

[resveratrol_guy]

Lots of updates...

 

First of all, we might need to coadminister galantamine (GAL) in order to remove amyloid precursor protein (APP) deposits in the cerebrovasculature, as shown here in a study of AD11 NGF-impotent mice treated with intranasal NGF. Galantamine is FDA-approved for AD and vascular dementia, so it shouldn't be too difficult or expensive to obtain. The study also comes with this handy Figure 3A showing the relative impact of various rhNGF (not mNGF) concentrations on cholinergic neuron regeneration. By the way, this is was a 2002 study published by Rita! (What have we been doing for 13 years?!)

 

Now then, check my math. If we were mice, we would want somewhere between 1 and 10 uM rhNGF to achieve clinical significance according to Figure 3A. Let's say we have 1 mg of rhNGF. How much saline would we need, at minimum?

 

L of saline = ((1x10^(-3) g)/(27000 g/M))/(10x10^(-6) M/L)  <- 27000 g/M comes from 27 kDa molecular weight

L of saline = 3.7x10^(-3)

 

In other words, we have to dissolve 1 mg of rhNGF in somewhere between 4 and 40 milliliters of saline to achieve 10 uM or 1 uM concentration, respectively. This fits perfectly with a "travel size" nasal spray or 20 mL or so.

 

But do we really need 1 mg? Let's see: "rhNGF ([in different concentrations of] 0.01–10 μM in 40 mM [phosphate-buffered saline], pH 7.4, total volume of 48 μl) was given in 3-μl drops to each naris [nostril] over 30 min, alternating drops every 2 min between the left and right naris." This makes sense because we have 3 uL per drop delivered 16 times in a 30-minute session (at 0 minutes to the left, 2 minutes to the right, 4 minutes to the left... 30 minutes to the right), for a total of 48 uL. The highest (and most effective) concentration was 10 uM. So:

 

g of rhNGF = (27000 g/M)(10x10^(-6) M/L)(48x10^(-6) L)

g of rhNGF = 13 x 10^(-6)

 

But 13 ug for a mouse needs to be multiplied by 300ish in order to get to human body weight... so we end up at roughly 4 mg. This value in turn would need to be adjusted for relative brain volume and perhaps relative metabolism. In any event, 1 mg seems like a reasonable baseline, with 10 mg probably being superfluous. Looking again at Figure 3A, we can see that the clinical effects pretty much saturate to "normal mouse" levels at 10 uM, so at least we now have an order-of-magnitude estimate of appropriate dose (and I apologise for being off by a factor of 10).

 

Oh and by the way, the study says "Recombinant human NGF (rhNGF) (Alomone Laboratories, Jerusalem) was delivered intra-nasally..." That sounds familiar! It's the Isreali company that I previously identified. They are still in Jerusalem, so it looks like Rita's Italian research team were getting their rhNGF from this exact source. (Considering that this was a decade before her death, it really makes me wonder whether this was also her personal source.) Wiki notes that: "Born and raised in a Sephardic Jewish family in which culture and love of learning were categorical imperatives, she abandoned religion and embraced atheism." This would nevertheless suggest social ties to Isreal. Might she have known the management at Alomone? I think we're getting closer to solving this mystery.

 

Furthermore Santa Cruz Biotech says of its own NGF: "Store at 4C, **DO NOT FREEZE**. Stable for one year from the date of shipment." So I wonder if Alomone is overstating the deep freeze requirements on its NGF (which in fact it says is shipped at room temperature!). Maybe our thermal worries are just the result of a typo on their website.

 

And finally, we have this 2005 intranasal NGF study to dump on the pile of evidence, if it hasn't been mentioned previously.

 

Edited by resveratrol_guy, 17 July 2015 - 04:30 AM.

[resveratrol_guy]

Wow... reading between the lines of reason's post, age-related β2 microglobulin (B2M) upregulation might actually be more significant than amyloid or phosphotau. I suggest this because the study linked above demonstrates that NGF can (however indirectly) significantly clear phosphotau from the middle-aged rodent brain, and we already know plenty of antiamyloid compounds as playground has pointed out. But... β2 microglobulin suppresses neurogenesis, which in principle prevents these plaques from being cleared as part of the usual NGF-initiated cascade of tissue regeneration. Right now, we only have the big hammer solution of introducing more and more NGF into an increasingly neurotoxic environment, but if we could knock this B2M crap out of the way, we might pave the way for more radical neurogenesis. My hope is that someone here could find natural foods which suppress B2M. But realistically, judging from reason's post, we might be looking at Tap1 gene therapy or perhaps the use of siRNA to destroy B2M postsynthesis.

 

[Debonaire_Death]

 

 

how did this become a thread about lion's mane.i took various supplements containing it and it never worked. neither do i know of any actual long term noticably good report.

 

We've been talking about Lion's Mane because it works to amplify NGF expression.

The suggestion has been made several times that a good strategy would be to

take NGF with Lion's mane.  So this is all part of the same project.

 

It's probable that you've taken only 'fruiting body' or 'full spectrum' lion's mane in the past.

It seems (now) that the best lion's mane is the mycelium lion's mane.

 

There are probably longer term Lion's Mane studies going on right  now in China, Japan, Korea etc.

We have to wait for someone to write them up.... and then translate them into english.

 

Playground

 

 

 

i did the fungi perfecti which is the mycelium. i trialed bottles in different time periods. first few times i noticed anxiety which wasnt good. tho, mild, felt a bit like nicotine. but then i tried at least 3 bottles more in later times, ZERO. i was using them mainly for concentration since i was in shit mode from MDMA abuse.

 

i read actual lions mane in Asia is completely different from the one in US, so perhaps maybe they are more potent and actually work compared to american?? for example, some species of lion's mane have different structures and color too!

 

also, doesnt it matter that lion mane naturally grows on (living) wood? im sure growing it on anything else will absolutely effect its quality!

 

 

 

It does, indeed! Actually, there was a recent experiment that enriched the lion's mane culture medium with garlic extract and managed to get the benefits a lot closer to the results of pure NGF! I hadn't been thinking about this thread when I read the study, but this might be the breakthrough we need! Is there a mushroom cultivar with the proper facilities for such a project as highlighed in the study I linked? Also, if anyone is able to find corroborating evidence of the study's results, that would be helpful, too.

 

In the study, by the way, it would seem that the extract that included the entire mycelium was much more effective than the extract filtered out... I think. I'm not the best with the graphs and the study's language isn't the easiest to follow. Having some other discerning minds analyze the lab report would be helpful. Still, I think this holds the promise of being dramatically cheaper while still sacrificing a small fraction of the benefits of pure NGF, without the dangers of dirty synthesis and difficult sourcing.

[ceridwen]

Does that mean that we can take it with garlic and it will work long term?
Does that mean that we can take it with garlic and it will work long term?
Does that mean that we can take it with garlic and it will work long term?

[Debonaire_Death]

Does that mean that we can take it with garlic and it will work long term?
Does that mean that we can take it with garlic and it will work long term?
Does that mean that we can take it with garlic and it will work long term?

 

I don't think the study is about administering garlic and lion's mane extract together, but rather giving the growing Lion's Mane mushrooms garlic extract, which then causes an increase in their potency when they are mature. Basically, we're talking about giving our drugs drugs so they can be better drugs, so we can be better... er... drugs for each other.

 

With this in mind, what I'm proposing is we find a mushroom cultivar who would be willing to take a bulk order made to the specifications of this experiment. Of course, it would be best if we waited for a corroborating study, but I don't know how much attention this experiment recieved in the research community.

[resveratrol_guy]

It's an interesting result, although I wonder if the same couldn't be achieved simply by ingesting more lion's mane or garlic powder alone. It certainly seems from their results that garlic is underappreciated for its role in neurogenesis, neuroprotection, and neurite outgrowth in rat PC12 cells and gerbils (except that it's neurodegenerative in certain mice). As the authors suggest, perhaps it's been overlooked on account of the offensive odor of its metabolites (or because frankly raw garlic is less appetizing than jet fuel). The graphs suggest that downing enough of the stuff would achieve results comparable to NGF supplementation -- if gerbils are closer to humans than mice (who knows?). So before you all rush off to the grocery store, I actually tried eating raw garlic once. On the plus side, it was most definitely antiinflammatory: I ended up paralyzed on the sofa in revulsion. Had I repeated the experiment, perhaps at some point it would have become palatable. Or perhaps we could hope that Kyolic would do the trick.

 

Furthermore, it's unclear that cultivating lion's mane with garlic extract "fertilizer" is actually necessary, as I see no analysis of mycelium powder mixed with garlic extract. In other words, it seems to me that we could simply take the two finished ingredients together.

 

The only way to know if this works in humans is to do a trial, and that most definitely will not be funded because there's no money in garlic. Which means that we need to run our own wacky microtrials, like my own. Anyone care to down garlic chunks while playing brain games for a month?

Edited by resveratrol_guy, 21 July 2015 - 03:45 AM.

[normalizing]

 

 

 

how did this become a thread about lion's mane.i took various supplements containing it and it never worked. neither do i know of any actual long term noticably good report.

 

We've been talking about Lion's Mane because it works to amplify NGF expression.

The suggestion has been made several times that a good strategy would be to

take NGF with Lion's mane.  So this is all part of the same project.

 

It's probable that you've taken only 'fruiting body' or 'full spectrum' lion's mane in the past.

It seems (now) that the best lion's mane is the mycelium lion's mane.

 

There are probably longer term Lion's Mane studies going on right  now in China, Japan, Korea etc.

We have to wait for someone to write them up.... and then translate them into english.

 

Playground

 

 

 

i did the fungi perfecti which is the mycelium. i trialed bottles in different time periods. first few times i noticed anxiety which wasnt good. tho, mild, felt a bit like nicotine. but then i tried at least 3 bottles more in later times, ZERO. i was using them mainly for concentration since i was in shit mode from MDMA abuse.

 

i read actual lions mane in Asia is completely different from the one in US, so perhaps maybe they are more potent and actually work compared to american?? for example, some species of lion's mane have different structures and color too!

 

also, doesnt it matter that lion mane naturally grows on (living) wood? im sure growing it on anything else will absolutely effect its quality!

 

 

 

It does, indeed! Actually, there was a recent experiment that enriched the lion's mane culture medium with garlic extract and managed to get the benefits a lot closer to the results of pure NGF! I hadn't been thinking about this thread when I read the study, but this might be the breakthrough we need! Is there a mushroom cultivar with the proper facilities for such a project as highlighed in the study I linked? Also, if anyone is able to find corroborating evidence of the study's results, that would be helpful, too.

 

In the study, by the way, it would seem that the extract that included the entire mycelium was much more effective than the extract filtered out... I think. I'm not the best with the graphs and the study's language isn't the easiest to follow. Having some other discerning minds analyze the lab report would be helpful. Still, I think this holds the promise of being dramatically cheaper while still sacrificing a small fraction of the benefits of pure NGF, without the dangers of dirty synthesis and difficult sourcing.

 

 

 

from what i read on this article you posted, it seems a very very long and very complicated manner of combining those two together in the best most proper way. how the hell would you think anyone can actually do this in their home anyway?

 

[normalizing]

edited

Edited by normalizing, 21 July 2015 - 08:49 AM.

[resveratrol_guy]

BTW for what it's worth, I think we're on the right track. I shredded Lumosity this morning. The only recent changes are lion's mane (supplying NGF?) and micellular (as opposed to Longvida) curcumin.

 

[ceridwen]

Too bad I gave up Meta Curcumin in favour of CDS. CDS certainly makes me feel different....er.. The CDS seems to be tackling some warts I've had since I was 11 when I find it doesn't work for dementia I'll go back on to Meta Curcumin again if I'm still alive. I also made a decision to eat a lot more vegetables especially beans. Glad to hear of your success.

[Debonaire_Death]

 

 

 

 

how did this become a thread about lion's mane.i took various supplements containing it and it never worked. neither do i know of any actual long term noticably good report.

 

We've been talking about Lion's Mane because it works to amplify NGF expression.

The suggestion has been made several times that a good strategy would be to

take NGF with Lion's mane.  So this is all part of the same project.

 

It's probable that you've taken only 'fruiting body' or 'full spectrum' lion's mane in the past.

It seems (now) that the best lion's mane is the mycelium lion's mane.

 

There are probably longer term Lion's Mane studies going on right  now in China, Japan, Korea etc.

We have to wait for someone to write them up.... and then translate them into english.

 

Playground

 

 

 

i did the fungi perfecti which is the mycelium. i trialed bottles in different time periods. first few times i noticed anxiety which wasnt good. tho, mild, felt a bit like nicotine. but then i tried at least 3 bottles more in later times, ZERO. i was using them mainly for concentration since i was in shit mode from MDMA abuse.

 

i read actual lions mane in Asia is completely different from the one in US, so perhaps maybe they are more potent and actually work compared to american?? for example, some species of lion's mane have different structures and color too!

 

also, doesnt it matter that lion mane naturally grows on (living) wood? im sure growing it on anything else will absolutely effect its quality!

 

 

 

It does, indeed! Actually, there was a recent experiment that enriched the lion's mane culture medium with garlic extract and managed to get the benefits a lot closer to the results of pure NGF! I hadn't been thinking about this thread when I read the study, but this might be the breakthrough we need! Is there a mushroom cultivar with the proper facilities for such a project as highlighed in the study I linked? Also, if anyone is able to find corroborating evidence of the study's results, that would be helpful, too.

 

In the study, by the way, it would seem that the extract that included the entire mycelium was much more effective than the extract filtered out... I think. I'm not the best with the graphs and the study's language isn't the easiest to follow. Having some other discerning minds analyze the lab report would be helpful. Still, I think this holds the promise of being dramatically cheaper while still sacrificing a small fraction of the benefits of pure NGF, without the dangers of dirty synthesis and difficult sourcing.

 

 

 

from what i read on this article you posted, it seems a very very long and very complicated manner of combining those two together in the best most proper way. how the hell would you think anyone can actually do this in their home anyway?

 

 

 

That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying we hire a professional mushroom cultivar to do it for a fee, similar to a custom lab synth. I imagine there are plenty of mushroom cultivars that specialize in making tinctures and extracts, considering the size of that industry, and so I'd imagine they might even have the proper equipment to do the entire procedure.

 

Also, it doesn't seem like that complicated of a procedure to grow the actual mushrooms. The extraction process seems to be where most of the convolution lies in the process. I'm not actually familiar enough with lab filtration techniques to clearly follow it, though, so it might be easier to do than I would presume. It seems to be more predicated on having the proper equipment as to whether things would go smoothly. I think someone with a formidable home lab setup with a centrifuge could do this entire experiment.
 

Edited by Debonaire_Death, 21 July 2015 - 04:32 PM.

[Debonaire_Death]

It's an interesting result, although I wonder if the same couldn't be achieved simply by ingesting more lion's mane or garlic powder alone. It certainly seems from their results that garlic is underappreciated for its role in neurogenesis, neuroprotection, and neurite outgrowth in rat PC12 cells and gerbils (except that it's neurodegenerative in certain mice). As the authors suggest, perhaps it's been overlooked on account of the offensive odor of its metabolites (or because frankly raw garlic is less appetizing than jet fuel). The graphs suggest that downing enough of the stuff would achieve results comparable to NGF supplementation -- if gerbils are closer to humans than mice (who knows?). So before you all rush off to the grocery store, I actually tried eating raw garlic once. On the plus side, it was most definitely antiinflammatory: I ended up paralyzed on the sofa in revulsion. Had I repeated the experiment, perhaps at some point it would have become palatable. Or perhaps we could hope that Kyolic would do the trick.

 

Furthermore, it's unclear that cultivating lion's mane with garlic extract "fertilizer" is actually necessary, as I see no analysis of mycelium powder mixed with garlic extract. In other words, it seems to me that we could simply take the two finished ingredients together.

 

The only way to know if this works in humans is to do a trial, and that most definitely will not be funded because there's no money in garlic. Which means that we need to run our own wacky microtrials, like my own. Anyone care to down garlic chunks while playing brain games for a month?

 

It's true that they don't actually make a chemical analysis of the finished extract. However, the Methods section seems to clearly denote that the extract is added to the culture, not mixed with the finished product. Still, obviously it would be far superior in terms of convenience if the two extracts could be combined from separate extractions.

 

Personally, I love raw garlic, so I might give it a go. I just started a dihexa trial, so I'll have to give it some time before I test it out, not that stacking it with dihexa wouldn't hurt, but it migth get things out of hand: I find that excess neurogenesis can cause problems like emotional hyperliquidity and attention deficit.

[resveratrol_guy]

It's true that they don't actually make a chemical analysis of the finished extract. However, the Methods section seems to clearly denote that the extract is added to the culture, not mixed with the finished product. Still, obviously it would be far superior in terms of convenience if the two extracts could be combined from separate extractions.

 

Personally, I love raw garlic, so I might give it a go. I just started a dihexa trial, so I'll have to give it some time before I test it out, not that stacking it with dihexa wouldn't hurt, but it migth get things out of hand: I find that excess neurogenesis can cause problems like emotional hyperliquidity and attention deficit.

 

 

I assure you that excess neurogenesis is never a problem, because you can always send your excess neurons to me.

 

But yes, that was my point exactly: cultivation is a pain, whereas coadministration of separate ingredients would be easy and cheap, but unfortunately they didn't test that. If you're looking for a custom mushroom cultivar, I would suggest Aloha Medicinals or Fungi Perfecti. Just make sure to let them know that you only want the mycelium at harvest time. If they take you seriously, please report back. At some point, I may try plain old garlic extract (yuck) and see what happens with Lumosity, but I can't do it for a while yet because I'm already testing lion's mane.

For that matter, I think everyone on this thread would be interested in dihexa if it actually works. But the anecdotes are very light on performance data, so please contribute to the experiences thread.

[resveratrol_guy]

I'm beginning to realize that there are a number of roadblocks to NGF, β2 microglobulin being the worst of which. There's also Nogo-A and Nogo-B, which are a real "no go" indeed because they inhibit neurite outgrowth. Fortunately, Flex seems to have found some herbs which inhibit them, in turn. See his post of today over here. I suppose I should be responsible by pointing out the theoretical cancer risk associated with liberalizing neurogeneration. But personally, I have bigger fish to fry than worrying about whether ginseng and horny goat weed are hazardous to my health. Granted, I haven't seen the smoking gun data set on all this. But thanks to Flex for the leads.

 

[normalizing]

this growing a mushroom on garlic extract still seems strange. from what is known about garlic is extremely potent antifungal. lions mane = FUNGI

 

just doesnt make sense...

[resveratrol_guy]

I have been working on this behind the scenes for a while, and the bad news is that I haven't found a supplier who is even willing to ship to an individual. It doesn't seem to matter that this stuff is naturally occurring inside our bodies.

 

The good news is that I have 2 further leads which might actually pan out. But I need your help on this, folks.

 

1. This NGF from Sino Biological. For whatever reason, my phone connection to China is terrible. Even though they have English speaking reps, we can't communicate. For starters I just want to know whether or not they ship to individuals. (Yeah, I know, it's from China. But that's what I seem to be left with. We can do our own lab testing if need be.) Their contact info is on the site, if anyone wants to take a stab and report back.

 

2. I found venom NGF from Germany here. The product details are missing, and I would have the same question as above. If anyone can get further info (especially if you speak German), please post here.

 

[killahbeatz]

Why wont you just make a fake company/lab name and have it sent to your address. It not like they are going to ask for a tax ID or confirm your company.

[resveratrol_guy]

Why wont you just make a fake company/lab name and have it sent to your address. It not like they are going to ask for a tax ID or confirm your company.

 

The problem is that we never know how much the exporting company cares about this sort of thing. What we need is a longterm source for repeat purchases. It would be a real pain if an internal audit on their end, or some overzealous bureaucrat somewhere in between, became proactive about enforcement. We need a straightforward business relationship.
 

I actually inquired with one vendor about this, and as you can imagine, the answer was rather murky as to what credentials were required. It's impossible to know where the line is. I think it comes down to fears that their own local government will crack the whip, and they'll need to come up with sufficiently compelling evidence that the customer is a bona fide research institute or pharma company.

 

And while you could easily find a banana republic that would allow free consumption and production, such countries are not generally conducive to the sort of quality control required when we're talking about spraying something up our noses, let alone NGF manufacture.

 

But I'm just one voice here. If anyone else wants to go the fake company route, they won't get any resistance from me. I'm really fed up with the red tape bullshit, already. It's effectively illegal to optimize your own health in your own home with substances that your body already produces, and the enforcement begins at the supplier.

[resveratrol_guy]

We could also consider intranasal xanthohumol, which appears to be easily acquired by comparison:

 

I found a dead website (only visible using the Wayback Machine) which states: "In vivo activity of xanthohumol from hops and dry powders of Ashitaba was examined in rats by oral administration. Contents of NGF in the submandibular gland, the brain and/or the gastrocnemial muscle were compared after four days of oral administration. Xanthohumol was orally given once daily for four days at the dose of 3 mg/kg of body weight. NGF content in the gland was more than 80-fold higher in the treated group than in the control. Furthermore, the scientists observed as high as 20% increase of NGF contents in the brain of rats orally given xanthohumol."

 

The massive NGF spike in the submandibular gland is significant, because this gland is essentially a salivary gland on the bottom of the mouth, easily exposed to whatever foods are eaten. The 20% increase in the brain is impressive, but presumably could have been boosted by intranasal administration.

 

Ashitaba, in short, is a longevity herb consumed in certain regions of Japan.

 

Unfortunately, I can't yet find the original study from which this was quoted. It has the veneer of legitimacy, so I think it's worth pursuing, if anyone can find it.

 

Edited by resveratrol_guy, 27 July 2015 - 05:44 AM.

[normalizing]

xanthohumol is best active only intranasal? i thought the high quality  beer consumed in germany and the stuff perhaps like ashitaba they eat in japan is why those two countries might be best top producers of cars and electronics *jokingly*

Edited by normalizing, 27 July 2015 - 11:29 AM.

[resveratrol_guy]

xanthohumol is best active only intranasal? i thought the high quality  beer consumed in germany and the stuff perhaps like ashitaba they eat in japan is why those two countries might be best top producers of cars and electronics *jokingly*

 

Based on the behavior of many other psychoactive substances when delivered intranasally, I expect by default that this also applies to a given amount of xanthohumol, but I have no data.

 

I read somewhere that the form in beer is isoxanthohumol, which has no significant effect on NGF. Ashitaba, for its part, contains adaptogens, which goes some way toward explaining its purported youthful effects on the population who consumped it traditionally. In particular, this island is where ashitaba grows rampant, and whose elderly population is purported to exhibit impressive longevity. But I haven't been able to find any of the studies quoted, perhaps because the quotations were merely snippets translated from Japanese. Its anticancer effects seem to be better researched.

[ceridwen]

I have some beer with Rosemary in it I bought from the Spanish deli