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ENDING THE DUALITY BETWEEN BODY AND SPIRIT


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#1 YOLF

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Posted 11 August 2014 - 06:45 PM


The Following was submitted by People Unlimited: There is a lot of debate today about whether or not there is an afterlife. Does the spirit go somewhere when people die? Does the spirit have a life of its own without the body?  

 The concept of the spirit world stretches back to our primitive ancestors. When archeologists analyzed the hieroglyphics drawn by cave dwellers they discovered that even then human beings were projecting a world where their spirit would go to when they died. So this is definitely not new. Human kind has always looked for immortality in an afterlife because they felt they could not have it while living in this body.
For someone operating in a mortal consciousness, the idea of an afterlife is good news because they believe they are going to die and they do not want to think that that is the end of everything. This is a really hard reality to face, so they believe in an afterlife to make death more palatable. 

 To me and others who are thinking in an unlimited consciousness, including our community at People Unlimited, the idea of there being no afterlife is an inspiration, because it means that we have to take full responsibility for living now and stopping any death in our bodies. This actually strengthens our immune systems, as well as our resolve to overcome any life and health challenges that may arise. Conversely, the believe in an afterlife weakens the immune system and undermines a person’s emotional wellness and strength to do what it takes to live on and on.  

 The reality is there is no definitive proof that life after death exists or that someone’s spirit can live on without their body. What we do know is that the body, while it is alive, generates energy that can be scientifically measured. And it makes practical sense that the more alive the cells in the body are, the more energy they produce and project.  

 If you are a conscious individual you can feel people’s energy. When you take the mystery out of the concept, this energy is what spirit is. When the body dies, spirit or energy, stops being generated, and only the memory of that person lives on, within the imprint that person made on other people who are still alive.  

 I believe that the memory of everyone who has ever lived is recorded within human genetics and this is why people sometimes believe that they were someone else in a past life, when really they are just picking up on the memory of that person that has been recorded in their own body. Invariably, it seems that these people identify with figures from the past -- like a king or a celebrity -- who are an upgrade from their actual, current existence. So there’s a lot of wishful thinking involved. 

 If you are planning to stay around long enough to outlive the mortality paradigm, it’s vital to understand that body, mind and spirit are one. If there is no body, there is no energy or spirit coming from that body. Similarly, if there is no energy or spirit being generated in body, if your aliveness is not on the increase all the time, then you’re either dead or one of the walking dead.  

 When we end the duality between body and spirit and become a whole alive human being, we are then sending messages to the DNA to unleash the body’s full potential for health, abundance and on-going rejuvenation. It’s then that we can truly experience the potent individuals that we are meant to be, who have the power over sickness, ageing and death.James Strole is the author of several books. You can support LongeCity at no cost by using the following amazon links:


Click here to view the article

Edited by YOLF, 22 December 2015 - 11:20 PM.

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#2 Clacksberg

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Posted 05 May 2015 - 08:02 PM

@YOLF. The idea that memory of everyone is stored that way, within human genetics has just as many implications as any ephemeral idea. Interesting though (i have heard of it somewhere before)

Do you have any refs to anybody who is working on this theory ?


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#3 calyptus

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Posted 08 May 2015 - 05:04 PM

"There is a lot of debate today about whether or not there is an afterlife."

 

Maybe in your circles, but not in mine, we don't have any way to analyse any sort of afterlife if it did exist.

 

"Does the spirit go somewhere when people die? Does the spirit have a life of its own without the body?"

 

What's "the spirit"? Do you mean consciousness or the soul? What are these? What part of the mind would be attributed to the spirit?


Edited by calyptus, 08 May 2015 - 05:09 PM.


#4 Clacksberg

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Posted 08 May 2015 - 10:01 PM

Well, YOLF'S keeping quiet !


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#5 shadowhawk

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Posted 08 September 2015 - 01:45 AM

Charles Paul Brown the author of the book at the beginning post died at the ripe old age of 89.  RIP.  A real interesting thinker.  Get his book.


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#6 Clacksberg

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Posted 08 September 2015 - 09:54 PM

 

In this video Stuart Hameroff mentions people who have received donor organs taking on some of the memories of the donor?! - it appears to be a phenomenon. Not quite on the subject i know but related to what Yolf said..


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#7 old_school

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Posted 10 September 2015 - 02:09 AM

Here is a video of the afterlife. Watch closely and you will see the face of a spirit who is flying.

 


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#8 shifter

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Posted 16 September 2015 - 08:40 AM


To me and others who are thinking in an unlimited consciousness, including our community at People Unlimited, the idea of there being no afterlife is an inspiration, because it means that we have to take full responsibility for living now and stopping any death in our bodies. This actually strengthens our immune systems, as well as our resolve to overcome any life and health challenges that may arise. Conversely, the believe in an afterlife weakens the immune system and undermines a person’s emotional wellness and strength to do what it takes to live on and on.


I disagree with this. It might be the case for some people, but I don't think it is a general rule. Some people who 'find' religion lead much happier and healthier lives and in turn live a life with a purpose. Some people who believe that this is all there is may be scared and stressed at their inevitable demise one day. Others like you say will make the most of their short existence and hold on for as long as their body could possibly allow.

I don't believe religion is against the idea of longevity in life. In fact many cases the opposite (strongly opposes euthanasia even beyond the point where the person will not live much longer and without dignity). Even the bible suggests the human life span is 900+ years so I hardly think religion would be opposed to longer lives. (I'm not trying to debate truthfulness in 900 year life spans just using it as an example of religions unopposed to longer lives we are living now - that topic can have its own thread)

I don't think blanket statements that your immune system is stronger if you are not religious is helpful or correct.
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#9 YOLF

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Posted 19 September 2015 - 07:57 AM

Actually, I'm not the writer of this article/post. It was written by someone from People Unlimited and the article connected to it missing. 


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#10 Multivitz

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Posted 22 December 2015 - 06:48 PM


The author must of missed the work of Harry Oldfield, I think it isn't a novel display of the environment.
It ties into the ancient books of the dead quite convincingly, for me.
It's clear from ancient information that things weren't like it before modern times.
The book of Enoch is intresting. There's plenty of circumstantial evidence to support alot of it.
If the earth was smaller long ago the giants could have lived under its gravity, the techniques of archaeological chronology is debatable, so no one knows of the time line. A giant would take a long time to grow. And the evidence of upheavals is overwhelming.
The immune system feeds from many sources. Re: Alex Putney's work.
Daulality is a monkey see monkey do logic, it ignores the finer points of existance by virtue of it's essence.
Logic says the supple things make the bigger thing noticable.
To give an example I will use myself as the subject of comparison.
I think if anyone was 25 years old and in a short month went from atheist to spiritual believer of sorts, dualism would be very apparent. In the short month I fed myself well with intense exercise activity, I included the usual things. What set it apart from any usual times was my addition of the living principles from a book of Macrobiotics. I supplemented amounts of CalMags to my symptoms, without going over the recommemded amount(about 600mg/day), then one day I felt like meditating, just to relax. Unknown to me I was using a Kundilini technique, I was in it for over 3 hours with ALL my Chakaras and sacred meridians open. With my inexperience I had left some open, this went on for 3 long weeks!!! In that time I managed to realise many things personal and universal. It took me years to fully understand what went on, in a way that a scientist would appreciate. Decades have past, ideas have been proved, millions have been wrong and mislead.
Duality is the perspective of the simple senses, Spirituality is the calmness that welcomes freedom to notice the supple things all around us and within us then their effects. Spiritual senses can be made as real as your eyes see, as sure as catching the one you like. Feeling the time for sharing, and as a parent, a suitable punishment.
I hope I have been an acceptable food for thought, it's not all doom and gloom!

Edited by Multivitz, 22 December 2015 - 07:46 PM.


#11 Multivitz

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Posted 22 December 2015 - 08:12 PM

1965: You Are All Sanpaku, Sakurazawa Nyoiti with William Dufty Is a book that is hard to understand, but is full of wisdom. I disbelieved most of it for about 10 years, but now I understand it.
When I said 'I was an atheist' in my last post. I mean, I had spent all my life believing that my thoughts and feelings had absolutely no effect what so ever on any one or any thing around me.
If there is a religion that comes close to me accepting it, it would be Jainism.
Vitamin D also has great powers as a nerve antagonist, one could say!
Silica is important to, in this time we are in.

Edited by Multivitz, 22 December 2015 - 08:33 PM.

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#12 N.T.M.

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Posted 12 January 2016 - 12:22 AM

I agree with everything the OP said except his remark about memories being genetically encoded. I've seen no evidence for this. The logic behind it seems similar to that supporting Lamarckian evolution (passing on acquired traits), which is clearly false.


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#13 shadowhawk

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Posted 12 January 2016 - 08:55 PM

I agree with everything the OP said except his remark about memories being genetically encoded. I've seen no evidence for this. The logic behind it seems similar to that supporting Lamarckian evolution (passing on acquired traits), which is clearly false.

 

Wouldn't They heed a materialistic source?  Isn't consciousness explained this way given materialism?

 



#14 N.T.M.

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Posted 12 January 2016 - 09:11 PM

 

I agree with everything the OP said except his remark about memories being genetically encoded. I've seen no evidence for this. The logic behind it seems similar to that supporting Lamarckian evolution (passing on acquired traits), which is clearly false.

 

Wouldn't They heed a materialistic source?  Isn't consciousness explained this way given materialism?

 

 

Are you referring to acceptable evidence supporting the idea that memories are genetically encoded? I'm a little unsure about what exactly you're asking. Acceptable evidence could take the form of something directly observed physically, or it could be a corollary of an accepted law or theory. 



#15 shadowhawk

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Posted 12 January 2016 - 09:56 PM

 

 

I agree with everything the OP said except his remark about memories being genetically encoded. I've seen no evidence for this. The logic behind it seems similar to that supporting Lamarckian evolution (passing on acquired traits), which is clearly false.

 

Wouldn't They heed a materialistic source?  Isn't consciousness explained this way given materialism?

 

 

Are you referring to acceptable evidence supporting the idea that memories are genetically encoded? I'm a little unsure about what exactly you're asking. Acceptable evidence could take the form of something directly observed physically, or it could be a corollary of an accepted law or theory. 

 

Since the topic is ending dualism in favor of materialism everything including conscious memories must be explained solely by materialism. This includes consciousness.  Wouldn't it have to be genetically encoded?  Evidence? 



#16 N.T.M.

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Posted 13 January 2016 - 01:23 AM

 

 

 

I agree with everything the OP said except his remark about memories being genetically encoded. I've seen no evidence for this. The logic behind it seems similar to that supporting Lamarckian evolution (passing on acquired traits), which is clearly false.

 

Wouldn't They heed a materialistic source?  Isn't consciousness explained this way given materialism?

 

 

Are you referring to acceptable evidence supporting the idea that memories are genetically encoded? I'm a little unsure about what exactly you're asking. Acceptable evidence could take the form of something directly observed physically, or it could be a corollary of an accepted law or theory. 

 

Since the topic is ending dualism in favor of materialism everything including conscious memories must be explained solely by materialism. This includes consciousness.  Wouldn't it have to be genetically encoded?  Evidence? 

 

 

No, because memories are acquired.



#17 johnross47

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Posted 16 January 2016 - 09:30 AM

 

 

 

 

I agree with everything the OP said except his remark about memories being genetically encoded. I've seen no evidence for this. The logic behind it seems similar to that supporting Lamarckian evolution (passing on acquired traits), which is clearly false.

 

 

Wouldn't They heed a materialistic source?  Isn't consciousness explained this way given materialism?

 

 

Are you referring to acceptable evidence supporting the idea that memories are genetically encoded? I'm a little unsure about what exactly you're asking. Acceptable evidence could take the form of something directly observed physically, or it could be a corollary of an accepted law or theory. 

 

Since the topic is ending dualism in favor of materialism everything including conscious memories must be explained solely by materialism. This includes consciousness.  Wouldn't it have to be genetically encoded?  Evidence? 

 

 

No, because memories are acquired.

 

 

Memories are acquired; the means of acquiring them is genetically encoded

 



#18 shadowhawk

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Posted 18 January 2016 - 10:14 PM

 

 

 

 

I agree with everything the OP said except his remark about memories being genetically encoded. I've seen no evidence for this. The logic behind it seems similar to that supporting Lamarckian evolution (passing on acquired traits), which is clearly false.

 

Wouldn't They heed a materialistic source?  Isn't consciousness explained this way given materialism?

 

 

Are you referring to acceptable evidence supporting the idea that memories are genetically encoded? I'm a little unsure about what exactly you're asking. Acceptable evidence could take the form of something directly observed physically, or it could be a corollary of an accepted law or theory. 

 

Since the topic is ending dualism in favor of materialism everything including conscious memories must be explained solely by materialism. This includes consciousness.  Wouldn't it have to be genetically encoded?  Evidence? 

 

 

No, because memories are acquired.

 

What is acquired is materialistic thus ending dualism?



#19 N.T.M.

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Posted 21 January 2016 - 01:11 AM

 

 

 

 

 

I agree with everything the OP said except his remark about memories being genetically encoded. I've seen no evidence for this. The logic behind it seems similar to that supporting Lamarckian evolution (passing on acquired traits), which is clearly false.

 

 

Wouldn't They heed a materialistic source?  Isn't consciousness explained this way given materialism?

 

 

Are you referring to acceptable evidence supporting the idea that memories are genetically encoded? I'm a little unsure about what exactly you're asking. Acceptable evidence could take the form of something directly observed physically, or it could be a corollary of an accepted law or theory. 

 

Since the topic is ending dualism in favor of materialism everything including conscious memories must be explained solely by materialism. This includes consciousness.  Wouldn't it have to be genetically encoded?  Evidence? 

 

 

No, because memories are acquired.

 

 

Memories are acquired; the means of acquiring them is genetically encoded

 

 

Of course, but that does not imply that the memories themselves are passed on genetically.



#20 shadowhawk

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Posted 21 January 2016 - 01:41 AM

 

 

 

 

 

 

I agree with everything the OP said except his remark about memories being genetically encoded. I've seen no evidence for this. The logic behind it seems similar to that supporting Lamarckian evolution (passing on acquired traits), which is clearly false.

 

 

Wouldn't They heed a materialistic source?  Isn't consciousness explained this way given materialism?

 

 

Are you referring to acceptable evidence supporting the idea that memories are genetically encoded? I'm a little unsure about what exactly you're asking. Acceptable evidence could take the form of something directly observed physically, or it could be a corollary of an accepted law or theory. 

 

Since the topic is ending dualism in favor of materialism everything including conscious memories must be explained solely by materialism. This includes consciousness.  Wouldn't it have to be genetically encoded?  Evidence? 

 

 

No, because memories are acquired.

 

 

Memories are acquired; the means of acquiring them is genetically encoded

 

 

Of course, but that does not imply that the memories themselves are passed on genetically.

 

Since they must be material to escape dualism, what are they if not encoded?


 

 

 

 

 

 

I agree with everything the OP said except his remark about memories being genetically encoded. I've seen no evidence for this. The logic behind it seems similar to that supporting Lamarckian evolution (passing on acquired traits), which is clearly false.

 

 

Wouldn't They heed a materialistic source?  Isn't consciousness explained this way given materialism?

 

 

Are you referring to acceptable evidence supporting the idea that memories are genetically encoded? I'm a little unsure about what exactly you're asking. Acceptable evidence could take the form of something directly observed physically, or it could be a corollary of an accepted law or theory. 

 

Since the topic is ending dualism in favor of materialism everything including conscious memories must be explained solely by materialism. This includes consciousness.  Wouldn't it have to be genetically encoded?  Evidence? 

 

 

No, because memories are acquired.

 

 

Memories are acquired; the means of acquiring them is genetically encoded

 

 

Of course, but that does not imply that the memories themselves are passed on genetically.

 

Since they must be material to escape dualism, what are they if not encoded?



#21 N.T.M.

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Posted 21 January 2016 - 01:53 AM

To SH:

 

I'm not really sure what you're asking. Memories can be explained materialistically, but they're not passed down through generations. As somebody else remarked earlier, the means to form them is, but that's quite different. The physical explanation of memories involves the unique connections between neurons, often referred to as engrams.



#22 shadowhawk

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Posted 21 January 2016 - 02:50 AM

To SH:

 

I'm not really sure what you're asking. Memories can be explained materialistically, but they're not passed down through generations. As somebody else remarked earlier, the means to form them is, but that's quite different. The physical explanation of memories involves the unique connections between neurons, often referred to as engrams.

Ok so you are saying a memory is material.  They are the connections between neurons or engrams.  Dualism solved?

cleardot.gif


#23 N.T.M.

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Posted 21 January 2016 - 03:04 AM

 

To SH:

 

I'm not really sure what you're asking. Memories can be explained materialistically, but they're not passed down through generations. As somebody else remarked earlier, the means to form them is, but that's quite different. The physical explanation of memories involves the unique connections between neurons, often referred to as engrams.

Ok so you are saying a memory is material.  They are the connections between neurons or engrams.  Dualism solved?

cleardot.gif

 

 

I suppose so. I never considered dualism to be a viable theory anyway.



#24 shadowhawk

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Posted 21 January 2016 - 03:22 AM

 

 

To SH:

 

I'm not really sure what you're asking. Memories can be explained materialistically, but they're not passed down through generations. As somebody else remarked earlier, the means to form them is, but that's quite different. The physical explanation of memories involves the unique connections between neurons, often referred to as engrams.

Ok so you are saying a memory is material.  They are the connections between neurons or engrams.  Dualism solved?

cleardot.gif

 

 

I suppose so. I never considered dualism to be a viable theory anyway.

 

That was so easy.  Given materialism and the fact all memories and choices are material is there anything such as free will or choice since everything including consciousness are materialistically determined?


Edited by shadowhawk, 21 January 2016 - 03:27 AM.


#25 N.T.M.

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Posted 21 January 2016 - 04:39 AM

 

 

 

To SH:

 

I'm not really sure what you're asking. Memories can be explained materialistically, but they're not passed down through generations. As somebody else remarked earlier, the means to form them is, but that's quite different. The physical explanation of memories involves the unique connections between neurons, often referred to as engrams.

Ok so you are saying a memory is material.  They are the connections between neurons or engrams.  Dualism solved?

cleardot.gif

 

 

I suppose so. I never considered dualism to be a viable theory anyway.

 

That was so easy.  Given materialism and the fact all memories and choices are material is there anything such as free will or choice since everything including consciousness are materialistically determined?

 

 

The short answer to your question is that although all actions are technically predetermined, it doesn't really matter. The name given to this position, as I recall, is compatibilism. Whether you subscribe to it or not really depends on how you define free will. Based on its strictest definition, it can't exist. 



#26 shadowhawk

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Posted 21 January 2016 - 10:15 PM

 

 

 

 

To SH:

 

I'm not really sure what you're asking. Memories can be explained materialistically, but they're not passed down through generations. As somebody else remarked earlier, the means to form them is, but that's quite different. The physical explanation of memories involves the unique connections between neurons, often referred to as engrams.

Ok so you are saying a memory is material.  They are the connections between neurons or engrams.  Dualism solved?

cleardot.gif

 

 

I suppose so. I never considered dualism to be a viable theory anyway.

 

That was so easy.  Given materialism and the fact all memories and choices are material is there anything such as free will or choice since everything including consciousness are materialistically determined?

 

 

The short answer to your question is that although all actions are technically predetermined, it doesn't really matter. The name given to this position, as I recall, is compatibilism. Whether you subscribe to it or not really depends on how you define free will. Based on its strictest definition, it can't exist. 

 

I agree, given materialism there is no free will.  Everything is determined since the Big bang.  Nothing is Good or bad.  There are no choices, only the illusion of choice.



#27 shifter

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Posted 24 January 2016 - 08:10 AM

To SH:

I'm not really sure what you're asking. Memories can be explained materialistically, but they're not passed down through generations. As somebody else remarked earlier, the means to form them is, but that's quite different. The physical explanation of memories involves the unique connections between neurons, often referred to as engrams.


So what your saying is, the entire premise in in one of my favorite computer games (Assassin's Creed), is false.

Thanks a lot :(

#28 N.T.M.

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Posted 24 January 2016 - 11:20 PM

 

To SH:

I'm not really sure what you're asking. Memories can be explained materialistically, but they're not passed down through generations. As somebody else remarked earlier, the means to form them is, but that's quite different. The physical explanation of memories involves the unique connections between neurons, often referred to as engrams.


So what your saying is, the entire premise in in one of my favorite computer games (Assassin's Creed), is false.

Thanks a lot :(

 

 

I don't know anything about Assassin's Creed, except that I know people who have commented that it's a great game. 



#29 platypus

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Posted 25 January 2016 - 08:10 AM

I would say people make real choices - this does not mean that only a "sky daddy" could explain the existence of consciousness and will.



#30 shadowhawk

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Posted 25 January 2016 - 09:16 PM

How could people make free choices since everything was materialistically determined at the big bang.  No sky daddy only material determinism.  :)






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