28 replies to this topic

[losty]

My friend was involved in an automobile accident 18 months ago and suffered a serious head injury amongst others. He broke many bones and apparently clinically died 10 times. He was on life support for weeks and spent along time in a specialised brain rehabilitation center.

He revovered alot better than some of the people I saw when visiting him and to me appears 99per cent alot of the time. Still the doctors dont deem him fit to drive and are unsure when he will be ready if ever. They have told him that he will NEVER skydive again, something which means alot to him. It was not just the actual skydiving but the social life that came with it. This is really sad as it was the thought of skydiving that got him through some really hard times recovering. He has done tandem jumps so its not for fear of fragility just that he may not react properly to emergencys.

I asked him if they had him on any medication to help him recover?? He said the doctors just told him to eat well and prescribed him some effexor for depression. I think he is off that now and on some mood stabiliser. I couldnt believe that they didnt have him taking at least some type of nutritional supplement.

Surely there are things out there that would speed the healing process ?? Does anyone know of anything that he could consult with his doctors and see if it is suitable.

I remember reading somewhere they use pyritinol for head traumas.

My friend really wants his life back.

Edited by losty, 23 July 2005 - 12:12 PM.

[enigma]

losty,

I am unsure if there is any nootropic that can help repair the damage your friend has suffered. But, perhaps there are nootropics that could provide an equivalent cognitive improvement to if his mind was repaired to its fullest, or even beyond. This would be dependent on the nature and severity of the damage and his individual reactions to the various nootropics.

I would suggest taking extreme caution and researching any substance which you would advocate to him a great deal. Try to get an idea of the chances of side effects of each nootropic, know what to look for. Read up on the contraindications of any nootropic you advocate him. Chances are he stands to gain a great deal from nootropics and some carry an exceptionally low risk of side effects and a virtually zero chance of adverse side effects. It is these where I would suggest starting.

Piracetam with lecithen granules would be an excellent start, they are likely to provide significant benefit.

Pramiracetam is far more potent than piracetam, carries a very low risk of side effects and would likely provide to him, a greater benefit than piracetam. Though it is expensive at the present point in time, it is very potent, and may well be worth it considering your friends situation.

There are many many nootropics which are very safe, which you could advocate to him, but the above ones might be a good place to start. Im sure there will be a lot of very knowledgeable imminst members willing to make some suggestions.

You have come to a very good place, for helping your friend.

[losty]

I dont know jackshit in general let alone specifics about his condition. I therefore suppose it would be best for him to get his doctors to aquaint themselves with nootropics if they haven't already and go from there.

Like I said I dont know jack but "eat well and take effexor" leaves me a little bit dubious of the quality of care he has recieved.
Perhaps seeing other doctors wouldnt hurt either although this may have been already considered and deemed too expensive.

Money will be an issue and I will probably have to help him bankroll any supplementing so cheap is good. Bang for buck!

SO yeah.... leave it the PROS.

Still I am VERY interested to hear more on this. There seems to be ALOT of knowledeable people here. It would be great to deliver some hope.

[enigma]

Perhaps seeing other doctors wouldnt hurt either although this may have been already considered and deemed too expensive

Most doctors arent very familiar with a lot of nootropics, this doesnt mean they arent safe (most of them are very safe). If you cant get Pramiracetam, then Piracetam, Oxiracetam and Aniracetam are very cheap. Piracetam is $17.50 for 700 grams from unique nutrition (generally a normal dose is considered 2.4 - 4 grams/day). Lecithin granules can be bought from the supermarket.

Pramiracetam is about 53 Euros for a 20 - 40 day supply from www.qhi.co.uk . No matter how much piracetam I take, I wont get nearly the strength of effect on rationality enhancement when compared to taking 400mg of Pramiracetam, but, effects vary greatly from person to person.

[lemon]

Your friend should have taken hydergine or piracetam at the time of injury to lessen the damage. He still can benifit from both however.

[REGIMEN]

How about increasing NGF and HGH? I'm a dabbler as far as the chemistry goes so maybe someone could chime in...
I'll be baring how green I am here, so take it easy:

Incr. NGF: ALCARginate, Ashwaghanda, Lion's Mane
Incr. HGH: 5g GABA before bed
Reduce hippocampal trauma: Tianeptine, Aniracetam
Misc.: Hydergine, Nicergoline, Fish oil, AlphaGPC, Bacopa

[lemon]

Hydergine elevates NGF. Go read the hydergine studies in this forum.

[REGIMEN]

Did I get the rest of them right, Professor?

[JonesGuy]

First off, be careful with "recreationals". My brother got into a car accident, and then later became schizophrenic (incurably) due to consumption of pot. Apparently, the accident made him susceptible, and then the pot fixed the schizophrenic pathways/tendancies.

Your friend needs a lot (LOT) of stimulus, to speed the process. Learning, lots of learning, is the name of the game. Learning to draw. Learning math. Learning another language. Learning to write with his off-hand. Balance. Etc. It takes a month of continued stimulus before the stem cells are harnessed and adapted to become new brain cells, so 10-20 minutes a day (of different tasks/programs) must be allowed to continue so that the brain continues to heal.

You should have a university in your area, and if you do, you should have a pharmacist/neurology research program. Explain to them what nootropics you're going to give your friend, and ask if they would like to monitor them. Doctors usually look to ease symptoms, whereas researchers should be quite willing to watch what happens, and actually learn from the process - they'll help you more with the theory.

Please keep us informed!

[xanadu]

If someone had a brain injury and later became shizo, how can you assume it was pot that did it? I would assume first that it was the injury in some way. Secondly, i would suspect some other factor. Doctors like to blame things on whatever they don't understand. When Bruce Lee died, the reports said he died from marijuana consumption. That was later found to be false.

[enemy]

I recall seeing a study done years ago, no abstract at this point (but I will find it), that stated something to the extent,
" Schizophrenics gravitate toward marijuana consumption because it alleviates their symptoms to a degree."

That being said, I could definitely understand how smoking weed could potentiate the symptoms of schizophrenia in a technically unafflicted individual (but one who possesses the risk factors, i.e. schizoid/schizotypal personality disorder, etc.) as well.

[losty]

Yeah, take him to a University that will provide free noos for research! I could take half his stash and he could tell them that he needs a higher dosage LOL

Seriously..... Cheers, going to a university is a bloody great idea. Thanks.


"If anyone knows if increasing NGF and HGH would be helpful in the case of brain trauma recovery"

Yeah, what he said!


Thanks all

Edited by losty, 24 July 2005 - 12:18 AM.

[JonesGuy]

If someone had a brain injury and later became shizo, how can you assume it was pot that did it?

Xanadu, this is a fair question - but I find that often people are resistant to the idea that pot can cause schizophrenia in people that are susceptible to becoming schizophrenic.

Here's a chronology:

Had accident, coma, woke up
Exhibited schizophrenic tendencies, aggravating over the course of 3 weeks
After 4 months, the swelling in brain went down, in month 5 (after the accident) lost schizophrenic symptoms
A year later, he started smoking pot
Within 3 weeks of smoking pot, he showed schizophrenic tendencies while "high", including hostility
Within a month, he spiraled into incurable schizophrenia - we tried to help him through his obvious illness, because the medical system couldn't help us (he refused to communicate to a medical professional.
Within 3 months, he had hospitalized both my parents.

[lynx]

Ashwaghanda grows neurites/repairs receptors.

Hydergine increases NGF.

Methylcobalamin facilitates neuronal repair.

R-ALA/ALCAR improve mitochondrial efficiency.


Glial cells feed neurons, remove wastes, clean up garbage, support neurons and outnumber neurons at least 10:1.
Royal Jelly increases GDNF 40% in hippocampus/cortex at 1% of daily calories.

Tianeptine increases BDNF.

Inosine (IC) increases axonal repair.

Dopamine agonists improve functional recovery in TBI.

Ritalin improves function in many stroke victims.

Gingko facilitates neuronal bloodflow as does vinpocetine.

Nicergoline increases neuronal trophic factors.

Fish oil is critical for signal transduction and membrane integrity.

Plasticity has been proven, consequently learning, practice and retraining are key as QJones said.

[wannafulfill]

Lynx, what ergot derivatives do you use on a regular basis and how?

[losty]

Royal Jelly increases GDNF 40% in hippocampus/cortex at 1% of daily calories.

Ok -- royal jelly huh ?? Does the royal jelly have to be fresh ??
What do you mean by at 1 per cent of daily calories ??

Glial cells ?? Will look them up. Never heard of them.

Forgive my ignorama

Cheers

OK Off to rob some banks so myself and my friend can have all the supps we want!!

[xanadu]

QJones, if the chronology is as you say, then it does seem to indicate cannabis aggravated an existing condition. It may not have but the possibility exists. The rational thing to do then is stop use of it. Him going on to get worse and worse after use was stopped seems to indicate some other factor but cannabis may have not been good for him. A couple hundred people die every year from asprin so no drug is perfectly safe.

losty, glial cells are support cells in the brain.

lynx, that is very interesting. Do compounds like Ashwaghanda, royal jelly and ngf do any good for non brain injured people? I would hesitate to mess with growth factors if not truely needed.

[nuncle]

Concerning the pot-schizophrenia link, there are a couple of interesting recent studies demonstrating an interaction between marijuana and a genetic polymorphism in the dopamine transporter gene. For a minority of individuals with particular alleles (met-met homozygotes, if I recall correctly, but I could be wrong), smoking pots greatly increases the risk of psychosis, whereas for individuals with other alleles (at least one val allele) smoking pot has no apparent effect.

One advantage of behavioral genetics studies in this respect is that there's no question concerning the causal direction here: smoking pot doesn't alter one's genotype! So the moral of the story is that it's entirely possible for smoking pot to increase one's risk for a schizophrenic break (although the effect may be negligible for the population as a whole).

[eternaltraveler]

Your friend needs a lot (LOT) of stimulus, to speed the process. Learning, lots of learning, is the name of the game. Learning to draw. Learning math. Learning another language. Learning to write with his off-hand. Balance. Etc. It takes a month of continued stimulus before the stem cells are harnessed and adapted to become new brain cells, so 10-20 minutes a day (of different tasks/programs) must be allowed to continue so that the brain continues to heal.

The above I think is most important. After that lynx's comments match fairly closely what I have recommended to my own friend who had a brain injury.

[lynx]

Royal Jelly increases GDNF 40% in hippocampus/cortex at 1% of daily calories.

Ok -- royal jelly huh ?? Does the royal jelly have to be fresh ??
What do you mean by at 1 per cent of daily calories ??

Glial cells ?? Will look them up. Never heard of them.

Forgive my ignorama

Cheers

OK Off to rob some banks so myself and my friend can have all the supps we want!!

Freeze dried royal jelly was used in the study.

1% of calories is 1% of calories, don't know how to say it any other way.

[lynx]

Lynx, what ergot derivatives do you use on a regular basis and how?

I dont' use any on a regular basis since I started mega dosing RJ, before that my favorite was nicergoline. Bromo makes me ill, hydergine can make me really mean, but nicergoline was always "nice".

[mitkat]

lynx,

is there a particular brand of royal jelly you rock? and what's that dosage? i know you just said 1% of your calories, but what about you personally?

thanks

[wannafulfill]

the answer to all your questions... AND MORE!

http://forum.avantla...showtopic=17118

[losty]

lol Calories ?? That word brings to mind weight watchers.

Some sort of energy measurement huh ??

I left school at 12 so you'll have to excuse me.

I'll go and consult my wise teacher Mr Google!

[mitkat]

awesome, thanks.

[vastman]

wannafullfill thanks for the link! Kept me up quite late last night. Ordered a kilo.... sounds interesting and I guess I'll join the experiment going on over at avant... With the new move to clamp down and regulate supplements, royal jelly may be next (sick world)

[mitkat]

vastman, where did you order from?

[lynx]

lol Calories ?? That word brings to mind weight watchers.

Some sort of energy measurement huh ??

I left school at 12 so you'll have to excuse me.

I'll go and consult my wise teacher Mr Google!

Hey, you know there really is hope for your friend. Don't give up and keep asking.

[losty]

No way have I given up(maybe a little distracted)! I talked to my friend the other night, gave him the url for here, and told him of the idea to go to a University. With my limited knowledge (Nootropics = Good LOL) I really shouldn't do anything but make him aware of the possibilities and perhaps help with some money. I'm not functioning anywhere near a mental optimum myself hence my initial interest in nootropics. Maybe later with the assistance of nooies I can educate myself to help him in a more hands-on manner. I would of course like to be able.

Out