34 replies to this topic

[whitesox35]

Hello all, I am new here and am unfamiliar with Nootropics/brain supps.

I am taking the LSAT in october and I need to be 100% for it.
Recently I feel as though I am lacking focus as well as mental clarity.
This may or may not be a side effect of a prescription drug that I am taking...
Its hard to pay attention, finish things I start, articulate my thoughts as I once could.

Anyways, I am looking for something to boost mental clarity/focus and increase sharpness/thinking speed.

I have used adderall in the past to study and wow, it works wonders.
Adderall makes me want to read things that would normally be extremely boring.
Is there any way to get that effect from a non-prescription drug or supp?
If not, I may make an apt. with an appropriate doctor and attempt to get a prescription

I searched around and it seems as if Ortho Mind would help my cause.
Is this true?

any advice would be greatly appreicated!
thanks

[whitesox35]

or how about Pyritinol, phenubut?

where do I get this stuff too?

[eternaltraveler]

I've never taken adderal, so I don't know a point of comparison, although I suspect that the effect is somewhat more subtle.

I personally take orthomind, pyritinol, and piracetam, and find the effect to be mild but noticible. Mostly in regards to mental staminia.

[eternaltraveler]

there is a list of suppliers in the nootropic supplier discussion area.

[xanadu]

I would think vinpocetine and piracetam would be good for that. None of the ones mentioned are going to make a difference like night and day but they do make a difference. Read more on this board and you will answer your own questions.

[LifeMirage]

Hello all, I am new here and am unfamiliar with Nootropics/brain supps.

I am taking the LSAT in october and I need to be 100% for it.
Recently I feel as though I am lacking focus as well as mental clarity.
This may or may not be a side effect of a prescription drug that I am taking...
Its hard to pay attention, finish things I start, articulate my thoughts as I once could.

Anyways, I am looking for something to boost mental clarity/focus and increase sharpness/thinking speed.

Idebenone and Pyritinol are probably best for those effects.

I have used adderall in the past to study and wow, it works wonders.
Adderall makes me want to read things that would normally be extremely boring.
Is there any way to get that effect from a non-prescription drug or supp?

Yes, you have many options to try....

If not, I may make an apt. with an appropriate doctor and attempt to get a prescription

I searched around and it seems as if Ortho Mind would help my cause.
Is this true?

Ortho-Mind is a good nutrition based formula...not bad for a first timer, but other nootropics would probably give you a more potent faster acting effect.


Yours In Health

[whitesox35]

Life Mirage,

Will Idebenone and Pyritinol together produce results similar to that of Adderal?
Do you recommend vinpocetine, piracetam, and ortho mind also?
I want to take the best stack out there regardless of cost.

Also, do i ease into the supps, or keep the dosing consistant?
What doses do you recommend?

thanks

[nuncle]

Will Idebenone and Pyritinol together produce results similar to that of Adderal?

Given how well you say Adderall works for you, it's unlikely that (generally much weaker) nootropics are going to have similar effects. You may or may not notice a difference taking some of the substances recommended above, but the effects are likely to be subtle. While Adderall has associated side effects, it's generally a reasonably safe stimulant--especially if you keep doses relatively low and don't take it for prolonged periods. I'd suggest seeing a doctor and trying to get a prescription. Conservative experimentation with nootropics would be a safer but probably less effective alternative.

[whitesox35]

well i already ordered some Idebenone and Pyritinol, so Im going to try them out.
What doses do you recommend, and can they be taken along with adderal if i get the prescription?

[johnmk]

There is no nootropic drug that comes anywhere close to the effects of ADHD medications such as methylphenidate or amphetamine.

[enigma]

There is no nootropic drug that comes anywhere close to the effects of ADHD medications such as methylphenidate or amphetamine.

Really? Not Deprenyl combined with a high dose of D,L phenylalanine?

[LifeMirage]

There is no nootropic drug that comes anywhere close to the effects of ADHD medications such as methylphenidate or amphetamine.

As far causing long term brain damage and addiction you are right.

[johnmk]

I'd love to know the mechanism of action of amphetamine toxicity, methylphenidate toxicity, and whether or not you think one is significantly worse than the other in terms of toxic effect, LifeMirage. My own research has tended towards the conclusion that amphetamine might be significantly more neurotoxic than methylphenidate. I'm taking a low dose of dextroamphetamine.

By the way, my post above was not endorsing the use of such products. I understand their controversial nature, especially here on this forum. I have trended down in my dose, and am currently finding dextroamphetamine between 12.5-17.5mg/day to be adequate for my needs. It generally lasts about 5-6 hours in me so I dose usually 5-10mg at waking, 5mg at noon, and 2.5 mg at 4 PM. Curiously, I find dextro-amphetamine more patience inducing than methylphenidate. I wonder if this might be caused by serotonin release?

I don't seem to have built up a tolerance to the effects of amphetamine. Initially I thought I may have, but this low dose has continued to work for months, and I started amphetamine therapy about nine months ago at twice this dose. If anything I seem more able to distinguish between when it is, and isn't working, and some of the beneficial effects carry over even when I am not taking the drug, which is marvelous and I'm thinking might implicate some kind of learning.

[enigma]

What do you consider high dose of DLPA? I've been experimenting with 0,5 to 3 gr of DLPA with 5 mg deprenyl. Not much effect than deprenyl itself, at least for me. And I've tried 10mg of deprenyl at once but not much effect either.

Ive read somewhere before that 2.5grams is the upper limit of a recommended dose for DLPA. I take 800mg and its a very strong effect for me. You probably dont notice much more from a high dose of deprenyl compared with a low dose because you would probably have had only a very small percentage of the normal amount of MAO-B left before taking a high dose of deprenyl. Strange that you dont notice much from the DLPA though.

[johnmk]

Is it possible I have an unusually large amount of MAO-B and this is why I don't really notice terribly much (just a little) from my 2.5mg/day selegiline/deprenyl?

[nuncle]

Is it possible I have an unusually large amount of MAO-B and this is why I don't really notice terribly much (just a little) from my 2.5mg/day selegiline/deprenyl?

It's conceivable, but I suspect it's unlikely. The half-life for MAO-B resynthesis is very long (about 40 days), so even a 2.5 mg/day dose, taken steadily, should block most MAO-B effects. But if anything, I would have actually made the opposite prediction: people who have more MAO-B should benefit most from a drug that blocks its effects (much like people who are hypodopaminergic benefit most from stimulants). Keep in mind that MAO-A degrades catecholamines fairly non-selectively, and there's some suggestion it may be more important for DA catabolism (at least in animal models).

Like everything else, individual biochemistry is hopelessly idiosyncratic, so there's no telling why deprenyl doesn't work well for you. It doesn't have any noticeable effect on me either--until bedtime, when I'm completely unable to sleep.

[exigentsky]

I think that the idea that you think you NEED an extra edge on the LSAT shows that you are stressed about it and not fully confident in your abilities. This is not good, try to remember that it is not the end of the world and but only one test. The worst thing you can do is over emphasize the importance of a test that is a recipe for nervousness, sleeplessness, and in one word: disaster. Don't worry so much! Relax a little.

I recommend just relaxing a few days before the test and not even worrying about it. Believe it or not, this will actually help you more than if you try to cram in more and more information in your last days. I can attest to this and studies also proved that this is the case.

In addition, you should not make any big lifestyle changes before the test, so if you try nootropics, make sure to thoroughly test them prior to the test for at least a good two weeks.

Good luck!

BTW: On a test like the LSAT, you can be sure that even after through testing nootropics won't raise your score dramatically. Sure they improve memory and alertness, but this is insignificant compared to the problems of being overly stressed, without a good night's sleep and nervous can bring you. I suggest you look into mood elevators can calming chemicals, like SAME and Bacopa.

Anyway, since you do seem really interested in a formula that can help you, I recommend Xtend-Life's Neuro-Natural Memory. I've used it for close to a week and its actually had more of a noticeable positive effect on me than Pyritinol, Piracetam with Alpha-GPC and Ortho-Mind. However, I do plan to also add Piracetam and Alpha-GPC with the NNM formula.

Edited by exigentsky, 28 July 2005 - 11:35 PM.

[eternaltraveler]

I think the LSAT, like the MCAT, it more than "only one test".

However I fully agree that it is a great idea to do nothing but relax a day or two before the test.

My plan for the day before the MCAT is to

1. sleep lots
2. Swim in the pool
3. sit in the hot tub
4. get a massage
5. go to bed early

[whitesox35]

I think that the idea that you think you NEED an extra edge on the LSAT shows that you are stressed about it and not fully confident in your abilities. This is not good, try to remember that it is not the end of the world and but only one test. The worst thing you can do is over emphasize the importance of a test that is a recipe for nervousness, sleeplessness, and in one word: disaster. Don't worry so much! Relax a little.

I recommend just relaxing a few days before the test and not even worrying about it. Believe it or not, this will actually help you more than if you try to cram in more and more information in your last days. I can attest to this and studies also proved that this is the case.

In addition, you should not make any big lifestyle changes before the test, so if you try nootropics, make sure to thoroughly test them prior to the test for at least a good two weeks.

Good luck!

BTW: On a test like the LSAT, you can be sure that even after through testing nootropics won't raise your score dramatically. Sure they improve memory and alertness, but this is insignificant compared to the problems of being overly stressed, without a good night's sleep and nervous can bring you. I suggest you look into mood elevators can calming chemicals, like SAME and Bacopa.

Anyway, since you do seem really interested in a formula that can help you, I recommend Xtend-Life's Neuro-Natural Memory. I've used it for about two weeks and it's actually had more of a noticeable positive effect on me than Pyritinol, Piracetam with Alpha-GPC and Ortho-Mind. However, I do plan to also add Piracetam and Alpha-GPC with the NNM formula.

exigentsky,

I appreciate the advice..can you give me more info about these mood elevators that you brought up?

Btw: I am confident in my abilities, but the LSAT is way more than "just a test."
My LSAT score determines what law school i go to, which determine which law firm (if any) hire me, which determine the kind of car i drive etc...
Because the test is soo imporatnt, i would like any edge that i can get.

[johnmk]

I was taking 1-2 mg per day for a month, and really no noticable results. Then i uped to 5 mg a day, and wow reall difference. I took it for a month, and lowered to 2-3 mg per day and after about a week effect were lowered. I uped it again to 5 mg a day and effects are here again. Maybe more than 5mg a day would be even better (drugs mmmm but i don't want to over do it.

Liquid or tablet form? I forget, I think you mentioned in an earlier post (liquid I think but I want to verify :D)

Thanks.

Edited by johnmk, 28 July 2005 - 11:40 PM.

[LifeMirage]

Life Mirage,

Will Idebenone and Pyritinol together produce results similar to that of Adderal?

No.

Do you recommend vinpocetine, piracetam, and ortho mind also?

Yes.

I want to take the best stack out there regardless of cost.

Also, do i ease into the supps, or keep the dosing consistant?

Best to ease into it.

What doses do you recommend?

It depends on the exact stack you want to go on.

thanks

No problem.

[LifeMirage]

BTW: On a test like the LSAT, you can be sure that even after through testing nootropics won't raise your score dramatically. Sure they improve memory and alertness, but this is insignificant compared to the problems of being overly stressed, without a good night's sleep and nervous can bring you. I suggest you look into mood elevators can calming chemicals, like SAME and Bacopa.

Nootropics can make an impressive difference with most people on regular tests and can raise intelligence on IQ tests…while stress can always be an issue Nootropics are about raising your cognitive abilities to closer to your full potential. SAMe can be stimulating for some people and cause mania in those with Bipolar disorder. Bacopa, Theanine, Glycine, Inositol, Lithium, EPA, and Phenibut can be effective relaxing enhancers.

Anyway, since you do seem really interested in a formula that can help you, I recommend Xtend-Life's Neuro-Natural Memory. I've used it for close to a week and its actually had more of a noticeable positive effect on me than Pyritinol, Piracetam with Alpha-GPC and Ortho-Mind. However, I do plan to also add Piracetam and Alpha-GPC with the NNM formula.

Xtend-Life's Neuro-Natural Memory formula looks like a good basic nutritional combination for those with a poor diet and/or absorption issues, but has only vinpocetine and huperzine A as nootropics. For those seeking to enhance their cognitive abilities for the short and long term a multifaceted nootropic approach is best.

[exigentsky]

Xtend-Life's Neuro-Natural Memory formula looks like a good basic nutritional combination for those with a poor diet and/or absorption issues, but has only vinpocetine and huperzine A as nootropics. For those seeking to enhance their cognitive abilities for the short and long term a multifaceted nootropic approach is best.

What about these: ALCAR, Alpha Lipoic Acid, D-Phenylalanine, 5-HTP, L-Tyrosine, DMAE, SAME, Gotu Kola and Siberian Ginseng, Ginkgo Biloba etc.? Aren't these considered essential in a nootropic formula?

[LifeMirage]

What about these: ALCAR, Alpha Lipoic Acid, D-Phenylalanine, 5-HTP, L-Tyrosine, DMAE, SAME, Gotu Kola and Siberian Ginseng, Ginkgo Biloba etc.? Aren't these considered essential in a nootropic formula?

None of these I consider Nootropics...also when the amino acids are taken at the same time their effects are greatly reduced.

[whitesox35]

life Mirage,

I just got a prescription for adderall so i will be taking that (prob 30mg) before my test.
With that said, which nootropics do you recommend to take along with the adderall?
Remember I am trying to do precisely what you said in a prior post, "... raising your cognitive abilities to closer to your full potential. "

thanks.

[johnmk]

That's a high dose IMO. I felt I needed such a high dose initially when I started amphetamine therapy, but I've been able to whittle it down to 5-10mg upon waking and 5mg at noon, with an occasional 2.5mg dose at 4 PM.

[LifeMirage]

life Mirage,

I just got a prescription for adderall so i will be taking that (prob 30mg) before my test.
With that said, which nootropics do you recommend to take along with the adderall?
Remember I am trying to do precisely what you said in a prior post, "... raising your cognitive abilities to closer to your full potential. "

I would focus on compounds that reinforce the NMDA and AMPA receptors to protect the brain. Racetams, Huperzine A, and Theanine may be a helpful combination.

[busdrivinbilly]

Good luck on the LSAT. I believe nootropics can help on a test like the LSAT, because it doesn't rely on memory so much as reasoning well and staying focused during the entire test. Experiment a bit and find a stack that feels good for you.

I finished taking the California Bar Exam on Thursday. I didn't study nearly enough to prepare and averaged about 4.5-5 hours of sleep a night over the 3 days. I'm not going to make any predictions about passing, because of my minimal prep, but even taking the test would not have been possible without some kind of aid (semi-insomniac, plus I can't sleep when my mind is racing and I'm stressed).

The following stack, split into two equal doses taken at breakfast and lunch, seemed to keep me focused and help prevent mental fatigue:

400 mg pyritinol
400 mg cdp-choline
16 mg galantamine
200 mg picamilon
100 mg Huperzine-A

Choline/galantamine/huperzine I have used in the past to prevent mental fatigue and I know they work for me. I can't distinguish between the possible affects of pyritinol and picamilon because I started them at the same time.

One bit of advice for the LSAT. Try taking a practice test in real-time conditions. I think Kaplan offers one for free (then they try to sell you the prep course). Its always good to get a feel for the test itself and probe out your weak areas, regardless of whether you think you know what they are.