18 replies to this topic

[snoopy111]

Hello,

I'm currently taking a very low dose of Adderall daily. In a recent previous post, someone asked what would work to replace adderall; I'm wondering what nootropics should be used in ADDITION to adderall.

PS. I've really enjoyed all of the advice that I've gained from this group.

[enigma]

Hi Snoopy,

What are you looking to improve?

[johnmk]

Possibly 1.25mg-2.5mg deprenyl taken in two divided doses (waking & noon) to reduce some amphetamine neurotoxicity, theoretically.

[snoopy111]

I'm a law student, so I'm looking for improved memory, concentration/focus, and especially speech ability (adderall makes you kind of "racey"; it's a bit difficult to speak clearly and coherently).

[johnmk]

If you think anxiety may have some bearing on its making you racey, perhaps try phenibut at a low dose. Before that however you should try frequent (30 minutes daily or every other day) cardio exercise. This is rather anxiolytic in some.

[jasen]

Snoop, how long have you been taking adderall, and what is dosage? Are you taking XR's?

[rfarris]

One thing you should keep in mind is that Adderall is another word for dex-amphetamine, and if you have any blood pressure problems you should stay away from it. I suspect it was the reason my blood pressure was 230/130, and I had a stroke. (I was treated for narcolepsy.)

Now I don't take amphetamines and my blood pressure is 120/80. Go figure.

[johnmk]

rfarris, what dose of dextroamphetamine were you taking in a day? I take between 10-20mg, usually 6 days a week.

[rfarris]

My standard dose was 60 mg Mon-Fri. I slept all days on the weekend. My regime was to take 30 mg of the time-release spansules when I woke up, and then 10 mg three times during the day of the quick-release tablets. Near the end, for complicated reasons I didn't have anything except the spansules and I was taking about 90 mg a day. Because I was taking the time-release capsules as late as 5PM, I wasn't sleeping very much. That's when my brain popped.

[jasen]

rfarris, it sounds very much like the adderall effect. It stops working the way it orginally did.

I have been in the position that you were with the xr's its a pain since generally my day is at least 18 hours not 6-8. Which the requires another xr thereby cause to much to be taken.

For all those who take adderall, as I have since 97, you will develop the adderall effect, same with any form of speed. It quits being as effective for ADD and you start having bad short term memory.

Simple instant fix is Desmopressin a few times a day initially then a few times a week and adderall will be like new all over again. Speed burns vasopressin up from your body, so replace it.
j

[silas]

jasen-
"Speed burns vasopressin up from your body, so replace it."

Have you ever discussed this with your doctor?
I asked my GP about adderall depleting vasopressin and she was completely clueless. I'd considered asking her for an Rx since it's such a pain to get it from overseas, not to mention expensive. But I'm fairly certain this isn't an approved use ala the FDA.

[LifeMirage]

I'm a law student, so I'm looking for improved memory, concentration/focus, and especially speech ability (adderall makes you kind of "racey"; it's a bit difficult to speak clearly and coherently).

Huperzine A is one of the more effective compounds for memory....while the racetams (Piracetam, Aniracetam, and Oxiracetam) and help greatly with speech.

[philmicans]

Actually it is virtually impossible to find Vasopressin now, as this was the porcine derived nasal spray. Now it's meant to be replaced by Desmopressin, the synthetic source, but it isn't truly the same molecule, although it is being put to the same uses in the same way (i.e. diabetes incipidus, amnesia, memory imprinting and narcotics abuse etc). There's plently of sources for Desmopressin overseas, I don't know why it's a pain, nor that expensive at about $30 for 2.5ml, I guess it just depends on how often you use it. One doesn't actually think that because it gets prescribed that it becomes cheap or free?! I only mention that because I've come up against that before and then remind people about where do they think their 40% tax rate goes (or indeed insurance)...
My personal recommendation for you would be Centrophenoxine, it should help improve short term memory and indeed speed of recall, on the other hand if your goal is alertness (which in itself does affect memory) then one of the Eugeroics such as Modafinil or Adrafinil would be much preferred to a dinosaur like Adderall.

[silas]

philmicans-

I've ordered from IAS in the past. Shipping takes about three weeks and adds $15 to the price. Considering you only get about 20 sprays from a bottle, I'd say it's a bit spendy. Scripts are five bucks with my insurance and I can pick them up the same day. So yeah, it's a pain. Plus, desmo is supposed to be kept cold. I doubt it spends much time in A/C during transit.
But short of convincing my doctor I wet the bed, ordering from overseas is the only option.

[mitkat]

silas, where are you from you can get a prescription?

[rfarris]

silas, where are you from you can get a prescription?

I'm more curious about where *you're* from, where you can't get a prescription!

-- Rick

[silas]

Heh, are you implying that I'm a bed wetter mitkat? That's about the only way I could get one.
Seriously though, the question I'd asked jasen was whether he'd spoken with his doctor about adderall depleting vasopressin. Doctors prescribing various drugs for off-label uses aren't completely unheard of. If he recognizes such a problem, then desmopressin would seem like an obvious solution.
But no, I don't have an Rx. I get it from IAS. I said it was a pain, philmicans disagreed, etc, etc.

The funny part is that even if one were to convince a doctor to write a scrip, it's almost always in pill form. The spray is generally for kids. And it's only the spray that has a nootropic effect.

[mitkat]

ah. i see. i must have misread, though you'd bucked the system, etc. i wonder if i urinated whilst in the doctor's office - they might shuffle me out of there with a script? [thumb]

[philmicans]

Silas, my only inference was that going to a doctor and getting a script and then going to a pharmacy (even if it is the same day) is perhaps no more of a pain than going on line and ordering it from IAS and waiting a while! As everything in life takes some effort, so ergo everything is a pain. By the way, both Vasopressin and Desmopressin need to be kept refrigerated for long term storage, however they are stable for several weeks at room temperature, therefore there should be no issues with post providing weather conditions are not extreme. PS It's a flat fee of $15 for S&H so the more ordered the cheaper that becomes.