25 replies to this topic

[rodentman]

I'm currently 33, with pretty bad focus problems all my life. was on ridlin up till age 9. My lack of focus can be debillitating sometimes, and it has dissqalified me from most forms of employment. I still find myself putting milk in the cupboard, and cereal in the frig, and doing things for long periods of time without realizing it, since I get caught up daydreaming so often.

Anyhoo, I want to start a conservative regimin for focus (and possilby something to fight off age related dementia in the long run)

Im considering Ortho•Mind:
(R(+)-lipoic acid, Huperzine-A (from 20 mg Huperzia serrata 0.5%) 100 mcg, vinpocetine, Bacopa monniera extract(50% baccosides A&B) 300 mg, Ginko Biloba extract 100 mg,Cytidine diphosphate choline, Acetyl-L-Carnitine HCl, Pyroglutamic Acid, Pantothenic acid)


I've Heard that DMAE only work for a few months, and then it wears off.

As far as the Nootropics, I dont want to do overkill, I just want something safe, that will address my problem.



RodentMan

[exigentsky]

I've had some success with Ortho-Mind, however, the Neuro-Natural Memory formula has worked even better in my case. You should also see if that suits you.

And in addition, consider adding Piracetam (While this is not a dietary supplement, it is neuro-protective and thought to be one of the safest drugs ever invented. It also has been around for over 40 years, so its effects are well known.) with extra CDP-Choline or Alpha-GPC.

All of these ingredients are not only safe, but often protect your brain while enhancing mental function.

I've Heard that DMAE only work for a few months, and then it wears off.

I don't know if that's true. Maybe LifeMirage can clear that up.

Edited by exigentsky, 29 July 2005 - 09:00 PM.

[rodentman]

Thanks for the suggestion. I think I will test the Piracetam with extra choline. I'll take a look at the NEURO-NATURAL Memory as well.

RodentMan

[susmariosep]

Rodentman, I like to know you and
your condition better.


First, please tell me what you mean by the parts of your post reproduced here, put in bold by me:

I'm currently 33, with pretty bad focus problems all my life.  was on ridlin up till age 9.  My lack of focus can be debillitating sometimes, and it has dissqalified me from most forms of employment.  I still find myself putting milk in the cupboard, and cereal in the frig, and doing things for long periods of time without realizing it, since I get caught up daydreaming so often.

Anyhoo, I want to start a conservative regimin for focus (and possilby something to fight off age related dementia in the long run)

Im considering Ortho•Mind:
(R(+)-lipoic acid, Huperzine-A (from 20 mg Huperzia serrata 0.5%)  100 mcg, vinpocetine, Bacopa monniera extract(50% baccosides A&B)    300 mg, Ginko Biloba extract  100 mg,Cytidine diphosphate choline, Acetyl-L-Carnitine HCl, Pyroglutamic Acid, Pantothenic acid)


I've Heard that DMAE only work for a few months, and then it wears off.

As far as the Nootropics, I dont want to do overkill, I just want something safe, that will address my problem.


RodentMan

Of the bolded words in your post allow me to give you my own understanding from my stock knowledge:


1. on ridlin up till age 9

2. start a conservative regimin for focus

3. fight off age related dementia in the long run

On item 1, I don't know what you mean by ridlin, but I looked it up in the Net with Google, and this is what I found among other things:

Another thing that I had to deal with with my ten year old one of his teachers didn't really want to teach him so she want us to put him on redlin (sp) don't let them do it or suggest it unless your doctor has told you that your child has ADD/ADHD mine didn't have this and one teacher was trying to tell me different I had a specialist look at him and she said he was a prefectly normal little boy.
http://66.102.7.104/.....=en target=nw

On item 2, what do you mean by "conservative regimin", presumably as opposed to what? liberal or non-conservative? Do you mean that your maintenance medication previously was somehow dangerous to your overall physical and mental health, notwithstanding that it could help you with attention concentration?

On item 3, What I know from stock knowledge is that dementia is insanity while amentia is forgetfulness... wait. Now after a cursory reading on the Net, it appears that both indicate insanity only apparently dementia is worse than amentia.


See next post.


Susma

[johnmk]

He misspelled Ritalin, a brand-name for the drug methylphenidate.

[susmariosep]

Humor and a suggestion.


The fact that you are writing messages here indicates that your condition is not really so bad that you can't get along effectively as an intelligent member of the literate society.

If you don't take any pharmaceutical products, but just live the way people live who don't have any such products in their society, do you think you can still write messages here?

Are you a dependent, meaning some people have to support you otherwise you will not have adequate housing and food and health care and safety?

If you can support yourself in your society, I presume the USA, even though in a modest lifestyle, then I think you are perfectly all right.

You lack concentration but you are not otherwise endowed, or better word, burdened, with a bullying personality (for an example of a bullying personality, see Don's *private* message to Justin (Pages 1 2 3 ) A 100% accurate assessment IMO (http://www.imminst.o...7&t=7415&hl=&s=) -- the Don here is what I consider a bully.

Are you married? If not I would most earnestly suggest that you look up a nice person of the opposite sex or someone who can be a partner in life with you.

There are many people who are interested and even keen on having a life companion, even if they are the ones having to contribute more to the material support of the partnership. Look around.

For example, my wife, she loves me even though I am not making more money than she. If she could not be earning we would be in financial straits -- well, not living as good as we are actually doing. Important thing is that you whatever your lack of concentration are not endowed, better word, burdened with any shade of a bullying personality.

---------

If you need someone to talk with, just look me up. I am a one-man emotional and man in the street intellectual here on self-appointed residence for all kinds of consultation.

Hahahaha and hehehehe.


Susma

[johnmk]

Not everyone is satisfied with mediocrity. As well, a man with a broken arm who goes to the doctor shouldn't be put back on the street because he was able to get there on his own two feet.

[scottl]

If you don't take any pharmaceutical products, but just live the way people live who don't have any such products in their society, do you think you can still write messages here?

Susma

Susma,

If I take away your word processor and force you to use a typewriter....or perhaps even a pen, can you still write a novel?


Susma, as I understand it you do not take nor really believe in any supps let alone nootropic ones. Again, you are free to believe and act as you wish. Please allow us the same courtesty.

[rodentman]

Yes, I meant Ritalin. Im happily married with a great family. I am not depressed, anxious, irritated, any of that. I just have no control over my focus.

Ive heard pyritinol might help as well.

RodentMan

[susmariosep]

Congratulations then!

Yes, I meant Ritalin.  Im happily married with a great family. I am not depressed, anxious, irritated, any of that.  I just have no control over my focus.

Ive heard pyritinol might help as well.

RodentMan

Congratulations then, again!

Considering how much of mankind, maybe as much as 95%, are living precarious lives in terms of both material deprivations and emotional needs, and safety, security, and peace, unlike, modesty aside, you and me, we do have very good reasons to be humbly satisfied.

You have some trouble with focus, like putting the milk in the cupboard and the cereal in the fridge, but you don't put rodentcide (pun not intended) in the soup. So your complaint is really nothing alarming and so compromising in regard to what we might consider a very normal life in all the average standards of biology, physiology, and psychology, and the reasonable touchstone satisfactions in a modern technologically advanced society.


I used to exchange messages here with two members who don't appear anymore. One has visions and hearings from spirits, even Jesus, Krishna, Jahweh, and Buddha; the other also experiences such encounters but being atheistic and a-religious the sightings and voices he witnesses are not of a religious kind. But I could relate with them perfectly and they are both running homes and managing families of their own.

I was always trying to learn how their experiences of voices and hearings can tell them something useful and even profitable, like -- hahahaha and hehehehe, what horses to bet on. Useless, no such bonanza from the nether world for them that they might pass over to me.


Thanks for your time, and I really enjoyed writing these messages.


Susma

[nuncle]

rodentman, why did you go off the Ritalin? Have you tried it (or any other stimulant medication) again since age 9? Nootropics may provide some increase in attention, but if your problem is serious, you're better off with a good doctor/psychiatrist and pharmaceuticals...

[LifeMirage]

Hello susmariosep

Nootropics are for those who want to not only protect their brain against damage that occurs as we age….in many cases leading to neurodegenerative disorders and at the least Age-Related-Mental-Decline, but also enhance their cognitive abilities to a higher state of mental functioning...even if they do not have an impairment.

If you have any desire to live a long healthy life…nootropics can play a vital role.


I see you have changed your mind....

susmariosep: Since I am not a scientist though scientifically oriented -- in my own view of my thinking self, and certainly not one trained in laboratory tasks essential to the pharmaceutic search for life extension, I do not go into threads and posts about nootropics and such related questions.

Posted http://www.imminst.o...&f=26&t=7057&s=

Yours In Health

Edited by LifeMirage, 31 July 2005 - 07:03 PM.

[losty]

Sus

As a sufferer of poor focus and someone who is prone to a scattered mind I definitely disagree with you
when you say that if you can "support yourself in your society....then I think you are perfectly all right"

"So your complaint is really nothing alarming and so compromising in regard to what we might consider a very normal life in all the average standards of biology, physiology, and psychology"

Just to aid you in understanding imagine the possibilities of someone with a scatterbrain driving.

I misplace things at work and make careless errors at times (at a rate more than normal ).

Though I can hold down a job there is huge room for improvement.

Why cant some one with attentional problems aspire to be not just "normal" but have laser focus? Whatever your views on life I really can't see increased productivity as bad thing.

You dont really make sense to me.

Losty

[DJS]

By the way Susma:

Susma:  with a bullying personality (for an example of a bullying personality, see Don's *private* message to Justin (Pages 1 2 3 ) A 100% accurate assessment IMO (http://www.imminst.o...7&t=7415&hl=&s=) -- the Don here is what I consider a bully.

This type of dialog whether it is directed at me, or any other member of this institute, is unacceptable. (A) It is ad hominem (B) It is off topic. Please desist from posting this type of content immediately.

If you persist in posting such content, you will receive a warning from another member of navigation. And if you continue to persist after that, you will be brought up on a formal motion to ban.

Sincerely
Don Spanton
Navigation

[vastman]

Don.... right on.
Sus... your adamant comments about a subject you obviously know little about wastes our time. I avidly seak out new information in these forums from people with more experience than I do regarding compounds which may be able to help me become a more effective human being. And when I offer advice it is from the experience I have gained over time. You're comments are irrelevent to the issues discussed here and your personal attacks are both disrespectful and inappropriate.

[enigma]

Susma,

I dont understand your rationale. If one can help to improve their focus safely and effectively, whats the problem?

Infact im not even sure of what point(s) you were trying to get across in that last post, it doesnt seem too coherent to me. Perhaps you would benefit from taking some nootropics to help improve your focus so your posts arent so off topic and scattered [lol]

[johnmk]

Just forget about him and continue the subject of this thread. Talk about scatterbrained.

[rodentman]

Wow, this dicussion has gone way off topic.

Anywho, I don't know why I went off ritalin, again I was just a kid, and my mom made the decision.

Losty - I am always interested to hear about other people suffering from these sort of 'scatterbrain' problems. Its seems rare, and nobody else I know has it to my degree. I'm curious, what type of job do you currently have?

Like another poster said, even when I'm completely clear-headed and alert, my mind will still wander off. I just want to be able to manage it a bit, without changing my behavior.

I'm going to order the 'Trial Smart Blend' from unique nutrition, and see if any one nootropic helps me. Ive heard pyritinol and possibly DMAE might help. From everything Ive read, the Nootropics seem to be very mild, and don't 'modify' behavior the way Ritalin or Adderall do. I'm not an expert on this, so maybe Im completely wrong.

RodentMan

RodentMan

[susmariosep]

Thanks, everyone for your attention to my posts.

I have learned important things from posters in this thread and also from others in ImmInst Forum.

I have nothing against nootropics -- are they pharmaceuticals designed or formulated and manufactured to help people with what we might call the cognitive level of a man's activities?

We also have pharmaceuticals that enhance people's muscular activities.

Of course well-known or notorious are the substances said to enhance sexual arousal and performance.

Please don't take offense for my seeming attitude of not being, shall we use the word, enthusiastic, about pharmaceuticals intended to improve a person's cognitive activities.

But, if I may, I would like to ask you all here who are into nootropics, and are knowledgeable about the different kinds of such products, tell me is there a class that will increase IQ performance in IQ testings?

You see, nowadays it is almost impossible to avoid such IQ testings, and of course other psychological testings like vocational aptitude and personality profile, when a person wants to obtain employment in the government or in private sectors -- an aside, not if you are running for elective positions in the government, my question is are there nootropics for such occasions as taking an IQ test, in order to achieve a higher score in IQ than one would normally score without the nootropics?

If there are such nootropics, what are the side effects in the short term and in the long term.

I like to experiment with such nootropics because it can help me understand intricate philosophical questions, where the writings are so abstruse and dense that I feel that my lack of comprehension could be due to my limited IQ.


Susma

[losty]

Rodentman

Mostly I have worked helping my father building, a process where you cant easily "rub out" costly errors. Planning and the execution of those plans require focus and a good working memory, neither of which a scatterbrain has. My focus has definitely improved over the last year or so but still I sometimes struggle at work and it can be quite depressing. Mostly I suffer from inconsistency, I am capable of quite good work when able to focus to my fullest. Misplacing tools, going looking for them, forgetting what I'm doing, these are some of the troubles I have had. I am sure my dad has been a bit more lenient than other bosses would be in regard to often repeated mistakes. Nootropics could be a real life saver.

I tried today for the first time:

400mg Pyritinol
250mg Centrophenoxine
1.6gm Piracetam

WOW! Although the effects are wearing off now, I cant remember being able to concentrate as well for many years. I would definitely recommend exploring nootropics deeply, something I definitely plan to do.

Deprenyl is supposedly great for motivation and focus, the two being intertwined I am sure. Deprenyl could give the motivation needed to really get your head together. If you are like me as I suspect most scatterbrained people are, your head is in serious need of a defrag. It's alot of work, especially for someone with a scatterbrain. Deprenyl combined with the ones I mentioned above are what I would look into from what I have read. Also look for substances that increase working memory.

Edited by losty, 02 August 2005 - 08:14 AM.

[enigma]

Good to see you are experiencing some positive effects Losty

Susmariosep

I like to experiment with such nootropics because it can help me understand intricate philosophical questions

Piracetam made me a believer in the capabilities of a synthetic substance to enhance intelligence. Its benefit to me is most obvious in relation to creative thinking or comprehension of philosophy. So, I highly reccomend it to you.

[susmariosep]

Any demonstration of IQ improvement?


Do we have any double-blind testing of the beneficial effect of drugs that make people perform better in IQ testing?

Let's put it this way:

You administer such drugs that are formulated to improve IQ performance, to a subject without the subject knowing it; then you require him to undergo an IQ test as part of a procedure of screening him for employment, but the people administering the test do not know about your experiment. Now you are in a position to compare his performance post intake of such drugs and his peformances on previous IQ testings when he was not given drugs.

I can imagine how many averagely intelligent people can be geniuses by ingesting such drugs, and then be able to perform feats of mental achievements, like writing scientific works or works on philosophy, mathematics, literary criticism.

But wouldn't there be a downside? namely, maybe in later years they become mentally 'zombi-fied' because their brain cells had been earlier scorched by those enhancing drugs, which are composition-wise chemical substances that could have also a corrosive effect on their brain?

Susma

[Kalepha]

I like to experiment with such nootropics because it can help me understand intricate philosophical questions, where the writings are so abstruse and dense that I feel that my lack of comprehension could be due to my limited IQ.

I can imagine how many averagely intelligent people can be geniuses by ingesting such drugs, and then be able to perform feats of mental achievements, like writing scientific works or works on philosophy, mathematics, literary criticism.

This is probably already getting off topic, so I'll try to restrict myself to this one post. Perhaps Susma will update his assumptions and move on (such optimism).

Susma, I notice that some people, though not everyone, are inclined to get restless and therefrom like to try learning and analyzing what they really don't have the cognitive tools to learn and analyze. For instance, it's probably true that, for humans, symbols representing conceptual objects and their relations (that is, language in many of its forms) are the vehicle to understanding. Yet one might observe that some people don't have a good grasp of the basics (language, its close counterparts, and otherwise, which are vast in themselves) and their restlessness inclines them to investigate domains that are nowhere near foolproof. I sense you make this mistake often. You write as though you're attempting to write formally, yet you miss the mark by a long shot.

Unfortunately economics does play a role in just about everything, so it's not entirely your fault. But one can at least recognize that the basics aren't really so basic after all and that it's all too easy to get ahead of oneself due to a combination of a lack of discipline, unarticulated and unexamined assumptions, and economic constraints, though each can be controlled more than what they are.

You are so far from needing to concern yourself with nootropics.

[enigma]

susmariosep,

The most commonly taken type of IQ test taken for adults in the USA is
the Weschler IQ test, the Weschler Adult Intelligence Scale (WAIS).

On pubmed, there is only one test on the efficacy of piracetam measured
against the WAIS. This test indicates in favor of piracetam improving IQ.

IQ is rarely used to test the efficacy of nootropics in general. Nootropics are tested
or tend to be tested against specific tests which are relevent to the disorder/illness/problem.
The global nootropics market is very small, so, general IQ tests that measure their effect in
healthy individuals are rare. Governments/corporations tend not to sponsor such things.

The efficacy of piracetam on intelligence and memory tests shows a clear and strong trend towards slight to very large
improvement in intelligence in most people, in many aspects of intelligence. This is not like believing in Santa Claws, there is specific and strong evidence here, to support the efficacy of piracetam and other nootropics. I know this because I have examined a number of (randomly selected) research papers to gain an objective perspective of the nature and effects of piracetam.

As for short term or long term harm, Piracetam has been used since the 60's and is widely considered as exceptionally safe.

If you are wondering then, why nootropics arent widely used or accepted in most of society, consider your own motives for being skeptical of nootropics, generalise this to most of society and there is an answer which is likely true to a large extent.

[rodentman]

Losty, You've got me really excited about starting a little regimine. I'll try the exact same one, and hopefully I'll have the same results. I too, was considering Deprynol, but I can't find it anywhere cheap, or in a trial size. We shall see.

I know this is off-topic, but as far as IQ, mine is quite high. After a good night sleep, and a little caffeine, I do really well on tests in general, and this allowed me to get into one of the top MBA schools in the country. However, after I graduated, I quickly found out I couldn't hold a job because I would misplace things, and zone-out far too often. Anyhoo, I currently have my own business, which seems to be the only job I can handle. (unless I decide to fire myself HAHAHAHHA)

RodentMan

[LifeMirage]

susmariosep:

Many of your questions have been answered in past postings...I strongly suggest reviewing the Nootropic postings to prevent repeat questions and to increase your understanding.

In my 10 years of experience with Nootropics in every case IQ testing showed an improvment.

But wouldn't there be a downside? namely, maybe in later years they become mentally 'zombi-fied' because their brain cells had been earlier scorched by those enhancing drugs, which are composition-wise chemical substances that could have also a corrosive effect on their brain?

Your brain gets damaged every day as you age..nootropics are proven to safety reduce this damage and enhance its functioning.

Nootropics do not cause any damage to the brain...there are no serious real downsides to taking nootropics.

Yours In Health