15 replies to this topic

[ohelinda]

Hello all:

After going back to university last semester I realized that I am experiencing some sort of brain fog. I can't seem to concentrate on my studies and it is difficult for me to formulate sentences when writing (and even speaking sometimes). I feel "slow" mentally and lack focus in my thinking.

If it makes any difference, I am a 28-year-old female.

A friend recommended each of the following, three times a day:
3600mg Piracetam (yes -10.8grams a day)
10grams Lecithin (pure, granulated)
200 mg Pyritinol (add later, optional)

My main concern is that I have hypothyroidism (take levothyroxine 0.1mg) and don't know if it is safe for me to take what he recommended or any other nootropics for that matter.

I read that people who have a thyroid deficiency should not take lecithin (because of soy?). I don't know if that only applies to lecithin or also to other forms of choline. I haven't decided what to replace the Lecithin with yet, although I have read that AGP & CDP choline are better to take. I have some choline bitartrate at home so after I run out of that I will then decide which choline to invest in next. Any recommendations for a budget conscious student? Also, if I switch to another form of choline -what should the dosage be?

After reading these and other forums, I realize that his 10.8grams of piracetam a day is quite a high dosage. Thoughts?

Thank you in advance for your comments and suggestions.

Edited by ohelinda, 04 August 2005 - 10:22 AM.

[vastman]

ohelinda,
please read the information on the various nootropics assembled by LifeMirage above the topic forum... It provides a wealth of information you should take some time digesting. You will find there are many things which can help in your search for greater clarity. Bulk powders are one way to keep costs down and many powders can be mixed in a blender with fruits/AOR's essentials mix which are both tasty and much cheaper than capped compounds. Do a bit of homework as most of what you wish to know is already detailed in this forum. And, yes... thats a lot of piracetam... start slowely but first, spend a coupe days reading.....

learning is one of the real joys of life.... there's a lot to learn here. start with nootropic research and basic QandA.

[ohelinda]

vastman: I am not looking to waste anyone's time here. A search for hyperthyroidism and nootropics did not provide many results (none actually). Telling a self-proclaimed older student "learning is one of the real joys of life... " sounds quite condescending to me, but I am hoping that I just wrongly interpreted your post.

Anyway, thank you, had I not already ordered my piracetam, bitartrate choline and ALCAR in bulk powder (thanks to the great Smart Drug Supplier List here), your suggestion would have been very helpful. I haven’t thought of mixing them with fruit, so I will definitively consider that once I start taking them. Thank you for your reply.

da_sense: Yes, I am having a hard time trying to decide what dosage of piracetam to take. Even LifeMirage recommends a high attach dosage, but I have never seen anyone mention that they continue to take a high dose anywhere near to what I have been recommended. (That is except in research studies, where apparently they do often use even higher levels.) On the other hand, my friend is very satisfied with a lot of piracetam and claims that most people just take too little of it to experience any significant changes. I guess I will take what he recommended for a couple of days and see how I feel and then perhaps go down to what you suggested. I appreciate you taking the time to reply.

There is supposedly some possible negative interaction between the hypothyroidism pills and piracetam, but I can’t find any information as to how to minimize (or preferably avoid) the effects. Does anyone know anything about this? Anyone out there have hypothyroidism and take piracetam and some form of choline? Should I even be worried about this?

Again, thank you for your comments.

[lemon]

Piracetam has a bellshape efficacy curve. Too much and you'll feel foggy headed.

However, 3.6g spaced evenly throughout the day is maybe OK. Neurochemically balancing out 11g over an extended period may be difficult though. Your brain may be able to deal with a large quantity of a chemical spanner in the short term but in the long term it may be "out of wack". Remember, piracetam acts on the cholinergistic system and other systems as well. Smaller dosages will unquestionably have some positive effect as the brain can maintain equilibrium and adapt to it.

Piracetam has an extemely high LD50 so I wouldn't worry about serious problems. Just watch closely.

[ohelinda]

Thank you Lemon. I have read a little bit about the piracetam bell shape efficacy curve, and it seems that in studies the maximal effect was seen at 2.4-4.8 g for healthy individuals. However, I don’t know if I belong to the healthy group or not ;-) being that I have hypothyroidism, which is known to diminish cognitive function in certain individuals.

I have in fact tried taking the piracetam and lecithin for about 3 or 4 days, but always got a headache and felt kind of dizzy. I wasn't sure if it was the lecithin (too much, too little of it or the fact that I should not be taking it in the first place) or the high dose of piracetam. That is why I finally decided to come out of my lurkdome and ask here. Thank you for responding Lemon.

[johnmk]

I believe myself to be mildly hypothyroidic as well. How does one get cheaply tested for this condition, or self-test? Thank you.

ohelinda: It sounds to me like your headache might be caused by lack of choline intake which is critical when you place increased demands on the cholinergenic system with drugs such as piracetam. Try taking more direct precursors to acetylcholine synthesis -- I've heard here on these forums that lecithin is a poor choice and is not readily or at all converted to acetylcholine.

[eternaltraveler]

Johnmk,

Go to the doctor and get a blood test. It's not an expensive test.

[xanadu]

I know very little about it but I just started on piracetam and I found 1.25gm per day to be a strong dose. Maybe I'm sensitive to it but I recoil in horror at jumping straight into 3.6gm per day let alone 10+. I found it difficult to sleep on the 1.25gm and it's had a fairly large effect. It may not have as much effect on you but I'd start off cautiously if I were you.

Can anyone comment on the effects of pyritinol alone or with piracetam since that has been mentioned here? I have some but haven't tried it yet.

[LifeMirage]

Hello all:

After going back to university last semester I realized that I am experiencing some sort of brain fog. I can't seem to concentrate on my studies and it is difficult for me to formulate sentences when writing (and even speaking sometimes). I feel "slow" mentally and lack focus in my thinking.

If it makes any difference, I am a 28-year-old female.

A friend recommended each of the following, three times a day:
3600mg Piracetam (yes -10.8grams a day)
10grams Lecithin (pure, granulated)
200 mg Pyritinol (add later, optional)

My main concern is that I have hypothyroidism (take levothyroxine 0.1mg) and don't know if it is safe for me to take what he recommended or any other nootropics for that matter.

I read that people who have a thyroid deficiency should not take lecithin (because of soy?). I don't know if that only applies to lecithin or also to other forms of choline. I haven't decided what to replace the Lecithin with yet, although I have read that AGP & CDP choline are better to take. I have some choline bitartrate at home so after I run out of that I will then decide which choline to invest in next. Any recommendations for a budget conscious student? Also, if I switch to another form of choline -what should the dosage be?

After reading these and other forums, I realize that his 10.8grams of piracetam a day is quite a high dosage. Thoughts?

Thank you in advance for your comments and suggestions.

Piracetam is safe to take if you have hypothyroidism.

Piracetam 4.8 grams and either Alpha GPC 600 mg or CDP-choline 200-500 mg would be fine starting out.

Soy Lecithin contains a poor form of choline (phosphatidylcholine) that does the readily convert into Acetylcholine.

[ohelinda]

Thank you LifeMirage. Glad to hear I don't need to worry about my thyroid.

[vastman]

ohelinda... no offense taken and I was not being condesending. Just pointing out the large resevoir of information available on other compounds which can improve clarity. I was suggesting you read up on them as it seemed you'd jumped into a thread immediately from a friends somewhat overzellous piracetam dosage recommendations. Exercising that "student" skill to get a background in the field is worthy of your time.

When I came to the forum I was suffering from sleep apnea. I too searched for discussions of what might help with my condition but subsequently I spent a good amount of time reading the suggested information in building my program. At 55 I still enjoy the rewards of doing homework as I often learn much more than I was originally intending. Personally I found the nootropic research and basic Q&A threads exciting. Thought you might also.

[REGIMEN]

For what it's worth, ohelinda, I've had a period of hyper- then hypothyroidism. The latter isn't too bad but lesser versions of the hypo symptoms come on during days of low blood pressure from low activity (ie:sitting at the computer for days on end). For some reason, which I believe from experience is based on a lowered digestive rate driven by the lowered metabolic rate and some IBS-like signs, I would say that I have become "allergic" to a few foods. Those would include soy, corn, wheat, sugar, and I usually have a hard time after consuming red meat and alcohol. I would recommend that you see how you react to some of these things if they're in your diet as the drugs don't work nearly as well if you're all fogged up from "bad" food. Just so you know, this has probably been the one thing that has cleared up my thinking most since the beginning of my thyroid disaster. Small meals, too.

[caught_thought]

I know I'm finding this thread a bit late... but I felt it worthwhile to respond anyway.

I was struck by the similarity of your situation to mine- I'm a 28 year old male with hypothyroidism on a T4 supplement with fog-brain, and I've just ordered some Piracetam to hopefully combat it, which lead me to this forum. I'd be interested in hearing about your results so far. I think that the negative mental and emotional effects of hypothyroidism are often underestimated.

The majority of the information that I've found on the Internet suggests that a T3/T4 combination supplement better treats the symptoms of hypothyroidism better than just a T4 levothyroxine supplement. All this information seems to be from more or less the same source, though. I'm planning on approaching my doctor about adding some T3 hormone next time I get my prescription rewritten, and see what her take on it is.

[wannafulfill]

I agree Caught Thought, my mom has hashimoto thyroiditis and her recent addition of small dose t3 has been a good help.

[loony]

Too late to see this - but since T3 is the more biologically active of the two, the brain fog might be due to lower T3 levels despite adequate T4 levels due to poor conversion. If blood test shows adequate T3, then I don't think that exogenous T3 would help. Desiccated thyroid (Armour) with all the Ts has been a favorite to some people.

Good luck.