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Resveratrol brain rewire possible ?

resveratrol ssri maoi rewire brain

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#1 Adaptofan

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Posted 05 December 2014 - 03:23 PM


Hey guys,

 

Do you think resveratrol properties on brain functioning (MAOI, BDNF, etc.) can cause permanent rewiring of the brain after long term use ? Lots of MAOI/SSRI drugs do it, although not consistently in all the cases.

 

I'm concerned about that...

 

What do you think ?

 

 



#2 Adaptofan

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Posted 05 December 2014 - 05:25 PM

Or to put it in another words... May it cause withdrawal symptoms ???



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#3 maxwatt

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Posted 05 December 2014 - 08:53 PM

No one has reported withdrawal symptoms.  Other than recurrence of arthritis thought to have been in abeyance due to resveratrol use.

 

Any MAO effects of resveratrol I expect are so week, I expect this is a non-issue.  Look at any papers showing the effects you cite, and look at the dosage/concentration the authors used.  In vitro levels showing various effects are usually many orders of magnitude higher than the serum levels that can be obtained by oral administration.


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#4 niner

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Posted 05 December 2014 - 10:12 PM

I concur with maxwatt.  I can't imagine any withdrawal problems from high purity resveratrol.  It's conceivable that the "other 50%" of common (cheap) 50% extracts might lead to some minor issues, since they have some stimulant properties.  This is reaching, though.  I've never heard any reports of withdrawal symptoms.



#5 Adaptofan

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Posted 07 December 2014 - 02:28 AM

Thanks guys.



#6 Area-1255

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Posted 08 December 2014 - 02:44 AM

I recall reading thay resveratrol *might* have DAT inhibiting properties!

#7 Adaptofan

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Posted 08 December 2014 - 08:14 PM

I recall reading thay resveratrol *might* have DAT inhibiting properties!

 

And what does that mean in a practical way ???


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#8 Area-1255

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Posted 09 December 2014 - 12:40 AM

I recall reading thay resveratrol *might* have DAT inhibiting properties!


And what does that mean in a practical way ???
Dopamine reuptake inhibition, like Wellbutrin.
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#9 Adaptofan

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Posted 09 December 2014 - 12:51 AM

 

 

I recall reading thay resveratrol *might* have DAT inhibiting properties!


And what does that mean in a practical way ???
Dopamine reuptake inhibition, like Wellbutrin.

 

 

And do you think this can cause any damage like SSRIs do ? Or cause withdrawal ?

 



#10 Area-1255

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Posted 09 December 2014 - 01:36 AM

I recall reading thay resveratrol *might* have DAT inhibiting properties!

And what does that mean in a practical way ???
Dopamine reuptake inhibition, like Wellbutrin.

And do you think this can cause any damage like SSRIs do ? Or cause withdrawal ?
SSRI's affect SERT; Serotonin reuptake Transporter. This would not be the same, I doubt there would be withdrawl.

Serotonin receptors are much more complex and broad, making anything modifying them to quickly become a puddle of garbled nonsense with a couple golden keys afloat, and a few more sunk.

What I refer to is the tendency for some serotonin receptors to desensitize or DownRegulate in response to what the body deems as excess activation or blockade, dopamine D1/D5 receptory are almost immune to downregulation, and D2's take Chronic blockade or agonism at high amounts to change receptor density even the slightest extent.
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#11 niner

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Posted 09 December 2014 - 02:14 AM

 

 

I recall reading thay resveratrol *might* have DAT inhibiting properties!


And what does that mean in a practical way ???
Dopamine reuptake inhibition, like Wellbutrin.

 

Um, no.  Not at achievable plasma concentrations.  That isn't going to happen.



#12 Area-1255

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Posted 09 December 2014 - 02:54 AM

I recall reading thay resveratrol *might* have DAT inhibiting properties!

And what does that mean in a practical way ???
Dopamine reuptake inhibition, like Wellbutrin.

Um, no. Not at achievable plasma concentrations. That isn't going to happen.
It might, to an extent, especially if one is using other AO's with similar mechanisms; e.g Reishi, Astragalus. JIAGOULAN.

#13 niner

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Posted 09 December 2014 - 03:04 AM

 

 

 

 

I recall reading thay resveratrol *might* have DAT inhibiting properties!

And what does that mean in a practical way ???
Dopamine reuptake inhibition, like Wellbutrin.

Um, no. Not at achievable plasma concentrations. That isn't going to happen.
It might, to an extent, especially if one is using other AO's with similar mechanisms; e.g Reishi, Astragalus. JIAGOULAN.

 

That sounds like wishful thinking.  What's the IC50 for the receptor in question, and what concentrations of these various compounds can you achieve in vivo?



#14 Area-1255

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Posted 09 December 2014 - 03:07 AM

I recall reading thay resveratrol *might* have DAT inhibiting properties!

And what does that mean in a practical way ???
Dopamine reuptake inhibition, like Wellbutrin.
Um, no. Not at achievable plasma concentrations. That isn't going to happen.
It might, to an extent, especially if one is using other AO's with similar mechanisms; e.g Reishi, Astragalus. JIAGOULAN.
That sounds like wishful thinking. What's the IC50 for the receptor in question, and what concentrations of these various compounds can you achieve in vivo?
Perhaps, look, I'm not saying that is RESV's main MOA, nor a potent one, just that I *recall* it being studied as one possible benefit. I believe it was brought up in reference to Parkinson's Disease!
Once my Internet WiFi is back up, I'll get off TapATalk and find that study!

Edited by Area-1255, 09 December 2014 - 03:08 AM.

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#15 Adaptofan

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Posted 09 December 2014 - 01:22 PM

 

 

 

 

 

 

I recall reading thay resveratrol *might* have DAT inhibiting properties!

And what does that mean in a practical way ???
Dopamine reuptake inhibition, like Wellbutrin.
Um, no. Not at achievable plasma concentrations. That isn't going to happen.
It might, to an extent, especially if one is using other AO's with similar mechanisms; e.g Reishi, Astragalus. JIAGOULAN.
That sounds like wishful thinking. What's the IC50 for the receptor in question, and what concentrations of these various compounds can you achieve in vivo?
Perhaps, look, I'm not saying that is RESV's main MOA, nor a potent one, just that I *recall* it being studied as one possible benefit. I believe it was brought up in reference to Parkinson's Disease!
Once my Internet WiFi is back up, I'll get off TapATalk and find that study!

 

Wether because of the IMAO properties or not, it works as an "antidepressant" that is for sure.

 



#16 Area-1255

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Posted 09 December 2014 - 02:45 PM

I recall reading thay resveratrol *might* have DAT inhibiting properties!

And what does that mean in a practical way ???
Dopamine reuptake inhibition, like Wellbutrin.
Um, no. Not at achievable plasma concentrations. That isn't going to happen.
It might, to an extent, especially if one is using other AO's with similar mechanisms; e.g Reishi, Astragalus. JIAGOULAN.
That sounds like wishful thinking. What's the IC50 for the receptor in question, and what concentrations of these various compounds can you achieve in vivo?
Perhaps, look, I'm not saying that is RESV's main MOA, nor a potent one, just that I *recall* it being studied as one possible benefit. I believe it was brought up in reference to Parkinson's Disease!
Once my Internet WiFi is back up, I'll get off TapATalk and find that study!
Wether because of the IMAO properties or not, it works as an "antidepressant" that is for sure.
Very good point, and I've noticed this and better pumps / focus in the gym with it!

#17 niner

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Posted 09 December 2014 - 03:20 PM

Wether because of the IMAO properties or not, it works as an "antidepressant" that is for sure.

Very good point, and I've noticed this and better pumps / focus in the gym with it!


Are you guys using pure resveratrol, or the typical 50% extract? The 50% extract has stimulant properties, but resveratrol doesn't. The stimulant effects come from other compounds in the extract.

#18 Adaptofan

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Posted 09 December 2014 - 04:11 PM

 

 

Wether because of the IMAO properties or not, it works as an "antidepressant" that is for sure.

Very good point, and I've noticed this and better pumps / focus in the gym with it!

 


Are you guys using pure resveratrol, or the typical 50% extract? The 50% extract has stimulant properties, but resveratrol doesn't. The stimulant effects come from other compounds in the extract.

 

 

Hey niner,

 

I noticed it with 50% extract. The interesting thing is that the good effects started after 15-20 days or so, what makes me believe it wasn't because of the stimulant properties, but of the IMAO/whatever-mechanism-that-affects-brain. If you look for anecdotal evidence of common resveratrol easing depression symptoms (including bipolar) on the www you'll find some. I would say  (can't recall exactly) the people was using just "normal" resveratrol products, not high purity ones.

 

That's why I'm worried about withdrawals/rewirings of brain chemistry. If it works as an antidepressant, it MUST be doing something to brian chemistry, doesn't it ?

 

Cheers


Edited by Adaptofan, 09 December 2014 - 04:12 PM.


#19 GoingPrimal

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Posted 09 December 2014 - 04:18 PM

 

It might, to an extent, especially if one is using other AO's with similar mechanisms; e.g Reishi, Astragalus. JIAGOULAN.

 

 

AO's meaning anti-oxidants? And I take this to mean Reishi, Astragalus and Jiaogulan have dopamine re-uptake inhibiting properties? Interesting, never heard.

 

I used a 50% extract of resveratrol for a while and while I did initially notice a mood/energy boost, I had to stop taking it due to joint pain. That and I'm likely to young to really benefit from it at this point.

 

Niner, is it the emodin in the 50% extracts that acts as a weak stimulant?



#20 Area-1255

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Posted 09 December 2014 - 07:07 PM

 

 

It might, to an extent, especially if one is using other AO's with similar mechanisms; e.g Reishi, Astragalus. JIAGOULAN.

 

 

AO's meaning anti-oxidants? And I take this to mean Reishi, Astragalus and Jiaogulan have dopamine re-uptake inhibiting properties? Interesting, never heard.

 

I used a 50% extract of resveratrol for a while and while I did initially notice a mood/energy boost, I had to stop taking it due to joint pain. That and I'm likely to young to really benefit from it at this point.

 

Niner, is it the emodin in the 50% extracts that acts as a weak stimulant?

 

 
Biochem Pharmacol. 2007 Feb 15;73(4):550-60. Epub 2006 Nov 9.
Resveratrol protects dopaminergic neurons in midbrain slice culture from multiple insults.
Abstract

Increasing lines of evidence show that resveratrol, a polyphenol compound contained in several dietary products, exhibits cytoprotective actions. Notably, resveratrol activates sirtuin family of NAD-dependent histone deacetylases implicated in regulation of various cellular processes including gene transcription, DNA repair and apoptosis. Here we examined neuroprotective effect of resveratrol on dopaminergic neurons in organotypic midbrain slice culture. Resveratrol and quercetin, another sirtuin-activating polyphenol, prevented the decrease of dopaminergic neurons and the increase of propidium iodide uptake into slices induced by a dopaminergic neurotoxin 1-methyl-4-phenyl pyridinium (MPP(+)). Resveratrol also provided concentration-dependent neuroprotective effects against sodium azide, a mitochondrial complex IV inhibitor, and thrombin (EC number 3.4.21.5), a microglia-activating agent. Sirtuin inhibitors such as nicotinamide and sirtinol did not attenuate the protective effect of resveratrol against MPP(+) cytotoxicity. Instead, we found that resveratrol prevented accumulation of reactive oxygen species, depletion of cellular glutathione, and cellular oxidative damage induced by MPP(+), suggesting involvement of antioxidative properties in the neuroprotective action of resveratrol. On the other hand, resveratrol as well as a sirtuin activator NAD inhibited dopaminergic neurotoxicity of a DNA alkylating agent, N-methyl-N'-nitro-N-nitrosoguanidine (MNNG). Moreover, MNNG-induced increase in acetylation of p53, a representative target of sirtuin deacetylase activity, was suppressed by resveratrol. These results indicate that resveratrol can exert neuroprotective actions in dopaminergic neurons. Either antioxidative activity or sirtuin-activating potential may play an important role in the neuroprotectice actions of resveratrol against different kinds of insults.

PMID:   17147953   [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

 

 

ALSO A PDE INHIBITOR, NONSELECTIVE

http://www.longecity.org/forum/topic/54129-resveratrol-is-a-nonselective-phosphodiesterase-inhibitor/

 

Resveratrol and Alzheimer’s disease: message in a bottle on red wine and cognition

 

 

 

 

Neuroprotective Effect of Resveratrol Against Methamphetamine-Induced Dopaminergic Apoptotic Cell Death in a Cell Culture Model of Neurotoxicity

#21 GoingPrimal

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Posted 09 December 2014 - 07:45 PM

 

 

 

It might, to an extent, especially if one is using other AO's with similar mechanisms; e.g Reishi, Astragalus. JIAGOULAN.

 

 

AO's meaning anti-oxidants? And I take this to mean Reishi, Astragalus and Jiaogulan have dopamine re-uptake inhibiting properties? Interesting, never heard.

 

I used a 50% extract of resveratrol for a while and while I did initially notice a mood/energy boost, I had to stop taking it due to joint pain. That and I'm likely to young to really benefit from it at this point.

 

Niner, is it the emodin in the 50% extracts that acts as a weak stimulant?

 

 
Biochem Pharmacol. 2007 Feb 15;73(4):550-60. Epub 2006 Nov 9.
Resveratrol protects dopaminergic neurons in midbrain slice culture from multiple insults.
Abstract

Increasing lines of evidence show that resveratrol, a polyphenol compound contained in several dietary products, exhibits cytoprotective actions. Notably, resveratrol activates sirtuin family of NAD-dependent histone deacetylases implicated in regulation of various cellular processes including gene transcription, DNA repair and apoptosis. Here we examined neuroprotective effect of resveratrol on dopaminergic neurons in organotypic midbrain slice culture. Resveratrol and quercetin, another sirtuin-activating polyphenol, prevented the decrease of dopaminergic neurons and the increase of propidium iodide uptake into slices induced by a dopaminergic neurotoxin 1-methyl-4-phenyl pyridinium (MPP(+)). Resveratrol also provided concentration-dependent neuroprotective effects against sodium azide, a mitochondrial complex IV inhibitor, and thrombin (EC number 3.4.21.5), a microglia-activating agent. Sirtuin inhibitors such as nicotinamide and sirtinol did not attenuate the protective effect of resveratrol against MPP(+) cytotoxicity. Instead, we found that resveratrol prevented accumulation of reactive oxygen species, depletion of cellular glutathione, and cellular oxidative damage induced by MPP(+), suggesting involvement of antioxidative properties in the neuroprotective action of resveratrol. On the other hand, resveratrol as well as a sirtuin activator NAD inhibited dopaminergic neurotoxicity of a DNA alkylating agent, N-methyl-N'-nitro-N-nitrosoguanidine (MNNG). Moreover, MNNG-induced increase in acetylation of p53, a representative target of sirtuin deacetylase activity, was suppressed by resveratrol. These results indicate that resveratrol can exert neuroprotective actions in dopaminergic neurons. Either antioxidative activity or sirtuin-activating potential may play an important role in the neuroprotectice actions of resveratrol against different kinds of insults.

PMID:   17147953   [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

 

 

ALSO A PDE INHIBITOR, NONSELECTIVE

http://www.longecity.org/forum/topic/54129-resveratrol-is-a-nonselective-phosphodiesterase-inhibitor/

 

Resveratrol and Alzheimer’s disease: message in a bottle on red wine and cognition

 

 

 

 

Neuroprotective Effect of Resveratrol Against Methamphetamine-Induced Dopaminergic Apoptotic Cell Death in a Cell Culture Model of Neurotoxicity

 

 

So, yes by AO you meant Anti-oxidant, and yes Reishi, Astragalus and Jiaogulan are also Dopamine Reuptake Inhibitors? I knew about it's neuro-protective effects, I'm just curious about Reishi, Ast. and Jiao having Dopamine Reuptake Inhibition properties as I haven't yet come across that info.

 

Interesting posts about Histamine as well, looking more into that one  ;)



#22 niner

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Posted 10 December 2014 - 12:42 AM

Biochem Pharmacol. 2007 Feb 15;73(4):550-60. Epub 2006 Nov 9.
Resveratrol protects dopaminergic neurons in midbrain slice culture from multiple insults.
Okawara M1Katsuki HKurimoto EShibata HKume TAkaike A.
Author information
 

Increasing lines of evidence show that resveratrol, a polyphenol compound contained in several dietary products, exhibits cytoprotective actions. Notably, resveratrol activates sirtuin family of NAD-dependent histone deacetylases implicated in regulation of various cellular processes including gene transcription, DNA repair and apoptosis. Here we examined neuroprotective effect of resveratrol on dopaminergic neurons in organotypic midbrain slice culture. Resveratrol and quercetin, another sirtuin-activating polyphenol, prevented the decrease of dopaminergic neurons and the increase of propidium iodide uptake into slices induced by a dopaminergic neurotoxin 1-methyl-4-phenyl pyridinium (MPP(+)). Resveratrol also provided concentration-dependent neuroprotective effects against sodium azide, a mitochondrial complex IV inhibitor, and thrombin (EC number 3.4.21.5), a microglia-activating agent. Sirtuin inhibitors such as nicotinamide and sirtinol did not attenuate the protective effect of resveratrol against MPP(+) cytotoxicity. Instead, we found that resveratrol prevented accumulation of reactive oxygen species, depletion of cellular glutathione, and cellular oxidative damage induced by MPP(+), suggesting involvement of antioxidative properties in the neuroprotective action of resveratrol. On the other hand, resveratrol as well as a sirtuin activator NAD inhibited dopaminergic neurotoxicity of a DNA alkylating agent, N-methyl-N'-nitro-N-nitrosoguanidine (MNNG). Moreover, MNNG-induced increase in acetylation of p53, a representative target of sirtuin deacetylase activity, was suppressed by resveratrol. These results indicate that resveratrol can exert neuroprotective actions in dopaminergic neurons. Either antioxidative activity or sirtuin-activating potential may play an important role in the neuroprotectice actions of resveratrol against different kinds of insults.

PMID:   17147953


The problem is that this is an in vitro experiment where they can dump as much resveratrol as they want on their brain tissue slices. When you put resveratrol in an intact organism, it's a whole different story, as we have multiple systems in our bodies that act to remove the resveratrol as fast as it gets in. Thus you never achieve the concentration needed to show the effects seen at high concentration in vitro.
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#23 Area-1255

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Posted 10 December 2014 - 02:31 AM

 

 

Biochem Pharmacol. 2007 Feb 15;73(4):550-60. Epub 2006 Nov 9.
Resveratrol protects dopaminergic neurons in midbrain slice culture from multiple insults.
Okawara M1Katsuki HKurimoto EShibata HKume TAkaike A.
Author information
 

Increasing lines of evidence show that resveratrol, a polyphenol compound contained in several dietary products, exhibits cytoprotective actions. Notably, resveratrol activates sirtuin family of NAD-dependent histone deacetylases implicated in regulation of various cellular processes including gene transcription, DNA repair and apoptosis. Here we examined neuroprotective effect of resveratrol on dopaminergic neurons in organotypic midbrain slice culture. Resveratrol and quercetin, another sirtuin-activating polyphenol, prevented the decrease of dopaminergic neurons and the increase of propidium iodide uptake into slices induced by a dopaminergic neurotoxin 1-methyl-4-phenyl pyridinium (MPP(+)). Resveratrol also provided concentration-dependent neuroprotective effects against sodium azide, a mitochondrial complex IV inhibitor, and thrombin (EC number 3.4.21.5), a microglia-activating agent. Sirtuin inhibitors such as nicotinamide and sirtinol did not attenuate the protective effect of resveratrol against MPP(+) cytotoxicity. Instead, we found that resveratrol prevented accumulation of reactive oxygen species, depletion of cellular glutathione, and cellular oxidative damage induced by MPP(+), suggesting involvement of antioxidative properties in the neuroprotective action of resveratrol. On the other hand, resveratrol as well as a sirtuin activator NAD inhibited dopaminergic neurotoxicity of a DNA alkylating agent, N-methyl-N'-nitro-N-nitrosoguanidine (MNNG). Moreover, MNNG-induced increase in acetylation of p53, a representative target of sirtuin deacetylase activity, was suppressed by resveratrol. These results indicate that resveratrol can exert neuroprotective actions in dopaminergic neurons. Either antioxidative activity or sirtuin-activating potential may play an important role in the neuroprotectice actions of resveratrol against different kinds of insults.

PMID:   17147953

 


The problem is that this is an in vitro experiment where they can dump as much resveratrol as they want on their brain tissue slices. When you put resveratrol in an intact organism, it's a whole different story, as we have multiple systems in our bodies that act to remove the resveratrol as fast as it gets in. Thus you never achieve the concentration needed to show the effects seen at high concentration in vitro.

 

Good point, but at the same time, additive effects can always lead to stronger potentiation of other similar substances. 

I would still choose flowering quince over resveratrol, but....I have noticed , Like I said, some anti depressant/stimulant/pump boosting effects from reveratrol..but that could be it's PDE inhibition as well!

 

Rolipram is a PDE4 inhibitor with anti depressant properties, and KANNA is an herb with anti depressant properties by both serotonin reuptake inhibition and PDE4 inhibition..so clearly, cAMP in the corresponding brain regions (where PDE would occupy it) shows an anti-depressant effect!



#24 Multivitz

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Posted 27 January 2015 - 10:20 PM

 

 

 

I recall reading thay resveratrol *might* have DAT inhibiting properties!


And what does that mean in a practical way ???
Dopamine reuptake inhibition, like Wellbutrin.

 

 

And do you think this can cause any damage like SSRIs do ? Or cause withdrawal ?

 

 

All drugs like this cause some anomalies in the pathways. They may get someone out of trouble in the short term, but there's no substitute for healthy living(which is getting to be a problem these days!) Telamorase is a good one(the mushroom extract form).
 


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#25 kurdishfella

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Posted 25 November 2022 - 01:00 AM

drugs rewire in a bad way. You can rewire your brain with just your thoughts
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