3 replies to this topic

[fervorviolinist]

I originally wanted to post this as a reply to LifeMirage's general Q&A sticky, but since this post encompasses my stack and is open to any noop veteran I decided to make a new topic. By the way, I just wanted to express awe at how much useful information is available here. I've tried researching noops for almost a week on bodybuilding.com and avantlabs forums, and suffice it to say, I now suffer from frustration-induced trichotillomania and have lots of hair stuck between my bloody fingers as I type here in abject desperation...



STAPLE SUPPLEMENTS
===================
alcar @ 600mg x 3/day
caffeine @ ~400mg/day (source: green tea extract, M.A.N. SCORCH)
kr-ala @ 200mg x 3/day


THE STACK
==========
1) piracetam @ 0.8g x 3/day + choline @ ??? x 3/day
2) pyritinol @ 200mg x 3/day

to be slowly incorporated into the stack individually
3) vinpocetine @ 10mg x 3/day
4) hydergine @ 2.25mg x 2/day
5) idebenone @ 50mg x 3/day


Here come the questions:

*Which of the items in my staple supplements and stack need to be taken with food, on an empty stomach, or doesn't matter?
-e.g., vinpocetine absoption increases drastically when taken with food
-i've been told not to take alcar with food (for unknown reasons...), so how much time before would be beneficial
-i also heard kr-ala should be taken on an empty stomach, but i thought the purpose of ala was to be taken with food so that the in can potentiate the effects of insulin...

*Alpha-GPC, CDP-choline (citicholine), huperzine-A, galantamine and centrophoxine all serve the same purpose when paired with piracetam? Also, out of these, which of the above has the most desirable primary effect outside of enhancing cholinergic function?

*Generally speaking, what would a good ratio of piracetam to a choline source (AGPC, CDP, citrate, etc.) be? I've read a study which suggest optimal levels as being 1:1 for piracetam:choline, and 1:2 for acetyl-l-carnitine:choline, both of which would be cost-prohibitive...

*How much caffeine would be the absolute maximum to synergize with piracetam without any negative effects?

*Should any of these be taken separately from another/others due to mutually antagonistic effects?

*Is it advisable to cycle off of any of these compounds or the whole stack for a while every so often in order to prevent build up of tolerance/desensitization? If so, after how long (usage), and how much time in between cycles?

And finally, which nootropic will help us make complete sense out of the endlessly enigmatic, impossibly confusing and elusive topic that is the nootropic??? (haha, please ignore me...)



Any suggestions on how to eventually expand my stack (for awareness, energy, focus and warding off occasional depression) will be great but not necessary.

Forgive me for the long post, I assure you I do not lack love and attention in the real world... Thank you all!!!

Edited by fervorviolinist, 14 August 2005 - 03:56 AM.

[ajnast4r]

caffeine @ ~1.5g/day

1.5g a day of caffein is f'ing rediculous... thats a stupidly large dose. i can tell you from personally expirience caffeine is mentally and physically addictive(read my coffee post in the nutrition section, many other people replied)...if you HAVE to take caffein i would keep it at 400mg or below per day...but i wouldnt take it at all personally. i dont believe caffeine falls under the class of nootropic because its physically addictive.

-i've been told not to take alcar with food (for unknown reasons...), so how much time before would be beneficial
-i also heard kr-ala should be taken on an empty stomach, but i thought the purpose of ala was to be taken with food so that the in can potentiate the effects of insulin...

take both on an empty stomach. take your k-rala 45 minutes before a meal, take your alcar 30 minutes before a meal...(15 mins betwene krala dose and alcar dose... 30 mins between alcar dose and meal)

Any suggestions on how to eventually expand my stack (for awareness, energy, focus and warding off occasional depression) will be great but not necessary.

ive found rhodiola(im using >aor brand<) to be quite effective for lifting foul moods(from caffeine withdrawl). 150mg 1st thing in the morning(15-20 minutes before my krala).

make sure you getting the basics... proper, complete diet... exercise....good, complete multivitamin (pharemecuetical quality or better, USP standards)... lots of omega-3(again, USP or better)....

[fervorviolinist]

Oops... I'm sorry, made a mistake w/ the daily caffeine consumption amount. I'm planning on taking M.A.N. Scorch which contains 200mg caffeine/serving, and Primaforce Lean Green... which, unlike what I had previously thought, doesn't contain any trace caffeine content. That makes the daily total 400mg as opposed to ~1.5g, and I will edit my initial post to reflect his error. I've been taking R-ALA immediately prior to a meal for some time now, so 45 minutes before for KR-ALA will be a little strange for me. Hope it works out though! Also, I take fish oil w/ plenty of EPA+DHA, spirulina, multivitamins, occasional creatine, etc., and exercise using HST principles. I'm really looking forward to the addition of nootropics into my daily supplement regiment, especially since my initial response to acetyl-L-carnitine was superb! Of course I notice it very little now that it's been a few months...

Oh, and thanks for the reply, ajnast4r!

[ajnast4r]

M.A.N. Scorch looks like one of those garbage body building supplements to me... not something a health minded person would take.

go with reputable companies to get your nutrients(aor, source naturals, reliance, now, natures plus, enzymatic therapy, jarrow).... dont buy from no-name body building companies, unless they readily provide you with COA's proving they adhere to USP standards.

i would replace that primaforce green with >NOW EGCg<

stay away from Coleus Forskholii.... dont quote me on this, but i think i remember readin this stuff acts funny in the liver... causing you to convert certain things into toxic compounds, that you normally wouldnt.

im using >AOR rhodiola< and i find it to be quite effective. >enzymatic therapy< also makes a good rhodiola