6 replies to this topic

[advancedatheist]

http://www.iht.com/b...ws/edwatson.php

The wages of fundamentalism

Peter Watson International Herald Tribune
WEDNESDAY, JUNE 22, 2005

CAMBRIDGE, England For decades, "big science" - indeed any kind of science - has been led by the United States. There are warning signs, however, that American science is losing its edge, and may even have peaked. One reason is that as religious and political fundamentalism tighten their grip, they are beginning to sap America's intellectual vitality.

By contrast, the political turmoil that has broken out on the other side of the Atlantic shows that Europeans grasp how destructive fundamentalism can be.

According to a survey in Physical Review, reported in May 2004, the number of scientific papers published by West European authors had overtaken those by U.S. authors in 2003, whereas in 1983 there were three American authors for every West European. The percentage of patents granted to American scientists has been falling since 1980, from 60.2 percent of the world total to 51.8 percent. In 1989, America trained the same number of science and engineering PhDs as Britain, Germany and France put together; now the United States is 5 percent behind. The number of citations in science journals, hitherto led by American scientists, is now led by Europeans.

As battles have raged in Kansas and elsewhere in America over evolution and Genesis, reputable biologists have spoken up in favor of Darwin's theories, but who knows how many students have already been turned off biology by these skirmishes?

As a result of fundamentalist opposition, America is already falling behind in cloning and stem cell research, now led by South Korean, Italian and British scientists. In February the New Scientist reported a survey in which fully half the scientists working for the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service said they had been pushed to alter or withdraw scientific findings for political reasons.

Since the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks, the number of Chinese and Indians traveling to America to study has fallen by more than 50 per cent - they are going to Europe instead. There are now as many Asian PhDs being produced as U.S. ones, more and more of them familiar with Europe.

[susmariosep]

Coaptation is the answer.


The way to fight fundamentalism whether Christian or Muslim or whatever system of bigotry, is not to fight them; because from simple knowledge of human psychology the more you fight a man the more he wants to stay alive and stick to his bigotry.

Coaptation is the way to win over fundamentalists of all stripes. Here's how.

Among fundamentalists there are what we might call the theoreticians who are for all their fundamentalist bigotry, really good minds; and these are the leaders of fundamentalist groups.

Pick the most influential among these theoreticians and make them tenured members of purely scientific and top caliber academic institutions dedicated to the pursuits of science and all avenues of human knowledge oriented toward secular humanism.

Being in the midst of other good minds but not fundamentalist ones, they cannot otherwise than be influenced by these latters, so that more certainly than not, they will eventually come to a watered down version of their fundamentalism, and finally even realize like Susma that religion is no different from cuisine, couture, and coiffure, no need to be fanatical about it to the excesses of fundamentalism.

The conclusion they will reach in the midst of secular scientists and scholars of modern humanism, is that food is necessary, so also clothing and hair even to one's head, but cuisine, couture, and coiffure can take all manners of presentation and all kinds aesthetic expression; so also religion.

And that is the tragedy of how the US is dealing with Muslim fundamentalism, with arms and fire power and invasion and occupation, when all they have to do is invite Osama bin Laden and all such personalities to tenured posts in prestigious institutions of learning and culture in the U.S.

Learn from history, how one people need not fight another to win them over, just coaptate them.

Put Christian fundamentalist theoreticians in institutions of secular learning. So also, invite the children of such personalities like Osama bin Laden and his colleagues to live and study and stay in the US, as most favored guests of the country.


Susma

[Mind]

Mark, I think the problem has more to do with our pathetic education system. I am routinely amazed, almost on a dialy basis, about how much more I know than people just graduating from college today. I would think they would know more than me, or that they would know newer things.

Of course, Imminst members seem to be an exception. It seems the cream of the intellectual crop is attracted to this site (plus there are smart members from all over the world).

[wraith]

I think the ban on human embryonic stem cell research is a bit of a problem. Drop in foreign student enrollment might be a major problem ( academic science labs in the US seem to be run on what amounts to foreign grad student slave labor). Evolution vs. creationism, nyah. Poor education at the secondary level - doesn't help, but I don't think it is a really big factor. Funding seems to be a problem these days (I wonder where all our tax dollars are going... hmmm). I have a friend who just finished a post-doc at MIT and said some of her colleagues were not getting their positions renewed due to lack of funds. Overall, I get the impression that quality of life is better for European scientists than American. Could it be that happy researchers are productive researchers?

[advancedatheist]

Mark, I think the problem has more to do with our pathetic education system. I am routinely amazed, almost on a dialy basis, about how much more I know than people just graduating from college today. I would think they would know more than me, or that they would know newer things.

How do you know that Americans haven't chosen "dumbth," as Steve Allen called it, over cognitive efficiency as a "rational" response to economic incentives? After all, plenty of Americans "succeed" and wind up as role models by our culture's questionable standards while openly disparaging knowledge and thought.

I was struck by the contrast between the two sets of values back in April when Britney Spears made headlines with her pregnancy, while on about the same day the death of the great vaccine scientist, Dr. Maurice Hilleman, went largely unnoticed:

http://www.njabr.org...man_dies_at_85/

Dr. Hilleman and his team at Merck & Co. developed about three dozen experimental and licensed animal and human vaccines, including 8 of the 14 routinely given to young children in the U.S. today. His work is credited by scientists for virtually wiping out many of the dreaded and deadly childhood diseases that remained common just 40 years ago. His MMR vaccine protects children against three different diseases - measles, mumps and rubella. Ironically, his death came less than one month after the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention announced that rubella had been eliminated as a health threat in the U.S.

Much of modern preventive medicine is based on his work, and his contributions have helped extend human life expectancy and improve the economies of many countries.

Now, in a rational world, who would receive more recognition for their contributions to human betterment -- Britney, or Dr. Hilleman? The lack of interest in learning difficult and useful knowledge and skills will continue as long as our culture values the superficial over the substantial.

[wraith]

Yup. Science as a career might be more popular if it were more lucrative. There are some scientists who are very well off, but I don't think the majority reach a high income level. There's also not as much prestige attached to being a scientist as there is to being a doctor, but it requires just as much education & training,

[th3hegem0n]

"There was a time before reason and science when my ancestors believed in all manner of nonsense."


It's almost cute how naive your signature appears.