22 replies to this topic

[zorblart]

Hey all,

I have ordered my first stack from uniquenutrition - after having received (very promptly) a series of trial sizes from them without a hitch.

Reading rec.drugs.smart, i have become aware of the big debate over quality of Euro/US COAs and Chinese/Indian COAs. I also got a vague view of the slanging match between nootropi and seemingly the rest of the nootropic community.

I tried to get an understanding of who to trust, who not to trust etc etc - but to be honest, after 2 hours of reading - im really not sure what to think.

Basically, I've had good service from UN, but is that reason to trust them quality wise?
I dont want to junk my brain because i've ended up OD'ing on heavy metals or something.

Could a few of the experienced guys on this forum please comment on quality concerns re: various suppliers.

Many thanks,
zorblart

[scottl]

There is no debate.

There is one psychotic ex drug user bad mouthing everyone who sells nootropics but him.

He is banned from here, and banned from avant.

Uniquenutrition sells quality products (as do the other suppliers listed here).

[xanadu]

Scott, I think you are correct but do we really know? I think it's a legit question. Has anyone run the stuff by a lab to get an analysis? I would think an independent third party would be in a perfect position to do the testing. You can't fully trust tests done by the vendor.

Then again, China, or any place, would have no reason to put harmful chemicals in the drugs. Perhaps they are careless on occasion and you might get some byproducts. How hard is it to clean them up and how likely are they to skip the process? These are legal drugs so I would think there would be an agency to monitor the situation. Maybe there is, anyone know?

[scottl]

This topic has been discussed literally ad nauseum here and at avant thanks to you know who. There are volumes of threads on this topic for your reading pleasure.

I am content to buy from uniquenutrition, 1fast (with the possible exception of the KRALA), Custom nutritionwarehouse....

[magr]

Several powders have been tested but I have not heard of a powder that would have failed the tests.

[xanadu]

Is there an agency that tests things like that for purity? Sorry if I missed the previous threads.

[scottl]

Is there an agency that tests things like that for purity? Sorry if I missed the previous threads.

No.

Please tell me how you know the generic prescription drug you took wasn't contaminated...

Please tell me how you know any, food, drink, or supplement you have taken was what it was supposed to be and was not contaminated....

[lemon]

Food, water, and the air we breathe contain impurities and toxins at various levels. Fish, such as tuna, have relatively high methylmercury concentrations for example.

Adam set up shop based on a third party analysis angle. I woudn't worry too much about, say... heavy metals any more than the relatively large amounts of food one ingests (as compared to even the most ardent pill popper).

That being said, I *would* concern myself over which supplements are chosen to be ingested and there are plenty of knowledgeable people on these forums that are more than welcome to critique your regimen.

[xanadu]

scott, while I do not have full confidence in the government to keep an eye on things, there is the fda which supposedly monitors the quality of food and drugs. I don't know how much testing they do or if they only test if there is a complaint.

Good points, lemon. I believe there are "acceptable" levels of contamination in all food and drink. There is even an acceptable level of rat turds in grain. They won't tell you how much rat turd they allow but they do allow some. If we knew all the horror stories, we'd have to stop eating and drinking altogether or grow our own. I purify my water and avoid as much processed food as I can. It's a jungle out there.

So, there is no agency that regularly monitors these things?

[scottl]

So, there is no agency that regularly monitors these things?

Is there an agency that tests things like that for purity? Sorry if I missed the previous threads.

No.

[zoolander]

I have bought products from Unique nutrition, Bulk nutrition and IAS. The service from these guys are next to none and and I live in Australia. Delivery is always very quick.

I have ordered some analyitcal standards from Sigma-aldrich for a few compounds and will be running HPLC tests for purity. I will also be doing a cross comparison between the different companies for the compunds and cross comparison for origin of the compound i.e china vs. europe

I will be doing this in the next month or so.

[zorblart]

I too am from Australia

Do keep us posted on the results of your lab tests - i was thinking of having some done too but havent investigated it yet. How much were you quoted, and for which compounds?

Also - have you had any probs with aussie customs and Hydergine?

[ajnast4r]

imo, product purity is a big deal... simple fact is, is that some chinese/indian sources ARE faking their COA's (even the big companies are having trouble with this). theres really no need to worry about this from reliable european sources.

any reputable company tests their bulk materials themselves, regardless of COA.

[xanadu]

I'm not so sure that something from China or India is automatically going to be of poor quality. It may be or that may be a stereotype. If you want to be a powerhouse exporter, you are going to do everything in your power to make sure quality is as high as you can reasonably make it. I would think the government would have some standards though they may not be as high as ours.

Zoolander, that sounds like a very worthwhile project. I look forward to your results. I've bought from bulk nutrition and custom nute warehouse. Both gave good service though BN made a couple erors. I asked them if there was a break at 500gm on an item and was told no. I ordered 5 - 100gm jars and later saw they had a 500gm jar for a discount. The second order from BN was delayed about a week but everything came and their prices are good. CNW only sent the one order but everything was perfect and the 20 or 25gm packages were about 1gm or more over. I'd have to rate CNW higher than BN based on my limited experience. I'll probably buy again from BN if I can't get a better deal elsewhere.

Can anyone back up scott's statement that the fda does no testing at all? That may be but it's contrary to the impression I had. I see stories now and then about the fda forcing products to be recalled because of contamination.

[scottl]

imo, product purity is a big deal...

I was not discounting that it is a big deal, only that this site and avant has spent....I shudder to think how many man hours flaggelating a deceased equis, and A. I am comfortable with..the sites already mentioned and their QC procedures, and B I am not aware of anyone ever demonstrating a contaminated batch of nootropic.

[LifeMirage]

imo, product purity is a big deal... simple fact is, is that some chinese/indian sources ARE faking their COA's (even the big companies are having trouble with this). theres really no need to worry about this from reliable european sources.

any reputable company tests their bulk materials themselves, regardless of COA.

Any source can have issues regardless of where it comes from.... I have not seen any issues with respectable dealers in Asia.

Most companies I've talked to either deal with a respectable company and/or perform heavy metal/COA analysis on their products (Smart Nutrition, Unique Nutrition, CNW, Bulk Nutrition) but its always a good idea to ask.

I asked LEF for 6 COA's and they were only able to provide me with 2...just a thought.

[ajnast4r]

but its always a good idea to ask.

[thumb] [thumb]

I am not aware of anyone ever demonstrating a contaminated batch of nootropic.

im really not familiar with nootropics, i was just making a general statement. i know a few really big name supplement companies, who supposidly check everything pre and post production, that have released contaminated batches of products.

imo this was due to one of two things. 1) they are lying 2) they are trusting COA's provided by suppliers, which were faked.

[alexoverhere]

If you think that manufacturers don't distribute CoAs with false information, you're wrong. Recently at Jeff Whitemore's buyers' club we received 1) samples of a variety of powders that we were planning to bulk order and 2) CoAs for these powders from a chinese company. These samples were then assayed independently. The results were different. For example, the Centrophenoxine Chinese CoA stated 99.16% purity. The assay came out to 86.75% purity. At least we found out, while you'll probably never find out with products the resellers who don't assay. (Source: http://www.nootropica.com/coa.html).

I buy NOW/other dependable products from bulknutrition/uniquenutrition/custom, but would really not buy bulk powders from them unless I had 0 alternatives. It's a shame that they won't assay their large-lot purchases, which would give them an immediate edge over their competitors (even if they passed the cost onto the consumer). I bought from nootropi when he was in business, as he got stuff assayed. I'll be buying from the buyers' club, as they're getting everything assayed. And I'll continue to pay any premiums necessary to order directly from places like Sigma-tau, Geronova, and American Lecithin.

[scottl]

"I'll be buying from the buyers' club"

I'd suggest you read the newsgroup rec.drugs.smart for comments...somthing about ALt-711 and quality.

I do not consider nootropi a reliable source of info.

As far as 1fast and COAs he does not take the chinese word--nor buy directly from them--as the 50 threads on this topic have addressed.

[mitkat]

alex, i'm with you. no way am i paranoid over impurities, but it does mean a great deal to me. piracetam, for example, if i'm taking several grams a day, i'm going to be concerned, or at least give some thought to it's quality. i don't want to wake up with some chronic health problem cause whoopsie! i had bought from some bulk joint who i trusted, because everyone else was doing it.

[alexoverhere]

scottl: I read the newsgroup several times a week. The alt711 thing is a mess.. but if you really want to know the whole story, you should read the yahoo posts as well. (TP and Jeff have been going back and forth a looong time). But anyway, the alt711 in question is a remnant of smi2le operations and is not directly related to the buyers' club.