21 replies to this topic

[ajnast4r]

ive been reading up lately on 'whole food' vitamins... either USP nutrient isolates fermented in lactobacilli & yeast(new chapter, megafood/foodstate) or nutritional yeast/food extracts(twinlab ultra harvest). [am i missing any companies?]

now everything ive read seems to confirm what these companies are saying, that once the nutrient isolates are digested and excreted by the lactobacilli they are much more bioavailable and bioactive. but, the amounts of the nutrient in these pills are [in most cases] significantly less than a standard multi.

what do you guys think?

http://www.megafood.com/Studies.htm

some info:

The $3 million Court Case.

In the early 1990’s, there was a court case with more bearing and significance on the nutritional industry than almost any other. The case involved a company selling isolated chemical nutrients that objected and discounted the fact that Foodstate nutrients were better absorbed, retained, and utilized. Five independent and internationally recognized FDA scientists were assigned to examine the molecular structure of the Foodstate supplements. These scientists were required to analyze the results and submit their findings to the judge. To determine the differences, leading edge technologies from NASA were used including nuclear magnetic resonance.

The Verdict!

On February 8, 1993, this $3 million lawsuit came to an end when the California district judge made his ruling based on all evidence presented to him during the case (Case # C8920658SW). He agreed the following claims are allowed to be made:

Foodstate nutrients are better than isolated USP nutrients.

Foodstate nutrients are better absorbed, retained, and utilized than USP nutrients.

Foodstate nutrients are manufactured under a proprietary process.

new chapters process:

[lemon]

"Foodstate nutrients are manufactured under a proprietary process."

The FDA is also involved. Take it with a grain of salt.

[ajnast4r]

"Foodstate nutrients are manufactured under a proprietary process." 

The FDA is also involved.  Take it with a grain of salt.

looking for something a little more well though out and scientifically oriented [tung]

[scottl]

Vortex suggested to me in an e-mail that conezymated B vitamins are better since the "regular" forms found in supps may deplete the conversion enzymes i.e. the enzymes needed to convert them to the activated coenzyme form.

[Pablo M]

There's also Garden of Life, probably the biggest whole food supplement maker.

I don't know if there's any point to having isolated nutrients in a yeast matrix. The New Chapter stuff has alpha-tocopherol, which is hardly "natural." Looking at the label for Living Multi, I can't tell if they add extra vitamin E or if it is naturally occuring. I did buy some Living Multi once. I took 9 tablets and got this really, really cool feeling, almost like I was weightless. I attributed it to the mushroom blend as tonic mushrooms can have weird physical and mental manifestations, I've read. I haven't bought any since because I have more confidence that other supps will improve my health and increase lifespan, etc. Also I found the book that Jordan S. Rubin (the head honcho of Garden of Life) wrote to be less than convincing.

[ajnast4r]

There's also Garden of Life, probably the biggest whole food supplement maker.

I don't know if there's any point to having isolated nutrients in a yeast matrix. The New Chapter stuff has alpha-tocopherol, which is hardly "natural." Looking at the label for Living Multi, I can't tell if they add extra vitamin E or if it is naturally occuring. I did buy some Living Multi once. I took 9 tablets and got this really, really cool feeling, almost like I was weightless. I attributed it to the mushroom blend as tonic mushrooms can have weird physical and mental manifestations, I've read. I haven't bought any since because I have more confidence that other supps will improve my health and increase lifespan, etc. Also I found the book that Jordan S. Rubin (the head honcho of Garden of Life) wrote to be less than convincing.

garden of life uses the exact same process as new chapter, just different bacteria and a different growth medium.

i believe new chapter does use all 8 forms of vitamin-E in their products... the way i understand their technique, is they take standard USP nutrient and allow the bacteria & yeast to 'eat' them. once they are excreted they are now in a form that is more bioavailable and bioactive. basically a mimic of what would happen in the intestines.

what i want to know, and cant seem to find out... is just how much of the beginning nutrient is converted and how much is left as is.

im personally not a big fan of garden of life, although i love their primal defence & think its one of the better pro-biotics on the market right now.

[ajnast4r]

interesting studies:

http://www.sportron....MammalStudy.PDF

http://www.sportron....cal_studies.htm


detailed video on new chapter's process:

http://www.new-chapt...turing_dsl.html

Edited by ajnast4r, 22 August 2005 - 05:26 AM.

[sentrysnipe]

hey definitely MEGAFOOD... take a look at Megafood "ONE DAILY" NOTE: They have changed nutritional amount on certain vitamins like Vit A. yes it's 100% Whole Food compare it with living multi or LEF, 1 tablet serving:

http://www.megafood....F CAT_11_04.pdf
1-2 capsules is enough. i get the rest of vitamin through meals

i find it expensive. so far thru surfing i found http://store.yahoo.c...1494101537.html 52$ for 180 caps good for 3-6 months

Also take a look at their Vitamin E Complete which has all components of vitamin e (d-alpha, d-delta,etc) plus tocotrienols

[icyT]

Hmmm so let's say that these bioavailable guys let us get 90% of it, and normal vitamins only allow 50% of something.

In the end, it's probably the cost per mg of vitamins that matters, so what's the better deal?

[sentrysnipe]

ok so take Megafood for example (whole food, and way cheaper and higher amount than garden of life's Living Multi), the cheapest reliable seller where i get mine, http://store.yahoo.c...1494101537.html :

52$+Shipping / 180 pills = $0.32 per pill or a day...

i guess we can compute from there the cost per mg of vitamins, no?

Edited by sentrysnipe, 06 September 2005 - 10:49 PM.

[nata]

To ajnast4r if you aren't a big fan of garden of life...

Nautres Biotic is the same this instead of calling them "Homeostatic organisms"
They are called "soild based" organisms in their formula...

-N

[sentrysnipe]

kindly take note of the correction, 32 cents per pill for Megafood One Daily 100% Whole Food multivitm
sorry for the error

[ajnast4r]

megafood uses only niacinimide, which to my knowledge doesnt have ALL the same functions in the body as niacin... which means your body will be sucking up tryptophan to make niacin instead of seratonin...

ive been taking new chapter every man, and while i do think new chapter is a
good company.... im not sure about these multis... i dont think each pills has equal amounts of nutrients... i notice after taking them sometimes my piss is clear, sometimes slightly yellow, and sometimes bright neon yellow...

almost every time its different, which leads me to believe almost everytime im getting different doses...

i also feel no difference between these and a standard multi, and am so-far unconvinced that its worth the double in price ive been paying.

[sentrysnipe]

im not sure about these multis... i dont think each pills has equal amounts of nutrients... i notice after taking them sometimes my piss is clear, sometimes slightly yellow, and sometimes bright neon yellow...
almost every time its different, which leads me to believe almost everytime im getting different doses...
i also feel no difference between these and a standard multi, and am so-far unconvinced that its worth the double in price ive been paying.

i always get the bright neon yellow color every time i take megafood one daily. and i agree about the pills having diff nutrient amounts, don't you think it's considerable to have at least the slightest percentage error in molding the pills?

and to your last statement, isn't knowing that the multi, spec. megafood (one daily) is 100% whole food derived, enough to separate it from the regular/standard multivitamins which are almost always synthetic??

for now i only argue in layman's term but hopefully i could also cite with specific detailed grounds like you guys do. your insights are always inspiring and much appreciated.

[ajnast4r]

don't you think it's considerable to have at least the slightest percentage error in molding the pills?

no

and to your last statement, isn't knowing that the multi, spec. megafood (one daily) is 100% whole food derived, enough to separate it from the regular/standard multivitamins which are almost always synthetic??

its a bit confusing, once you look into it... the megafood starts out at the same synthetic isolates as every other vitamin.. it just goes througha fermentation process which binds it to proteins, and makes it more absorbable in the body.

its not really 'whole food'... its improved synths

[sentrysnipe]

its a bit confusing, once you look into it... the megafood starts out at the same synthetic isolates as every other vitamin.. it just goes througha  fermentation process which binds it to proteins, and makes it more absorbable in the body.
its not really 'whole food'... its improved synths

So they're lying when they printed a big serif all uppercase label "100% Whole Food" on my multivitamin? The same thing with my Garden of Life Primal Defense? Which pdf/article should i "look into" to substantiate your claim? Could you take me to it?

[ajnast4r]

its a bit confusing, once you look into it... the megafood starts out at the same synthetic isolates as every other vitamin.. it just goes througha  fermentation process which binds it to proteins, and makes it more absorbable in the body.
its not really 'whole food'... its improved synths

So they're lying when they printed a big serif all uppercase label "100% Whole Food" on my multivitamin? The same thing with my Garden of Life Primal Defense? Which pdf/article should i "look into" to substantiate your claim? Could you take me to it?

watch the video i posted above about new chapter, read foodstate's(the company megafood buys their stuff from) website..... all these 'whole food' supps are USP isolates fermented in yeast and bacteria...

[edward]

Ok I am resurrecting this very Ancient Thread because of something another individual mentioned in the "what multi vitamin do you use poll/thread". I asked if anyone knew of another multi that didn't have niacinamide/nicotinamide in it (besides AOR's formulas and Supernutrition's Perfect Blend). They mentioned New Chapter's Every Man which has "Nutrients are cultured in organic media" and they show no forms of any of their nutrients. I mean what exactly does this mean, they add nutrients into a probiotic culture and let it sit for a few days, hope the little bacteria suck up the nutrients and spit out better forms, or are these bacteria actually producing all of these nutrients (sorry I don't think they have that technology). Anyone have any clarification on all this? Is it just marketing hype? Apparently the thread above never really came to any conclusions.


If they are just isolates with better bioavailability, does anyone know what these isolates would be chemically, i.e. are they simply the cheap isolates: niacinamide simply bound to a protein, cyanocobalmin bound to a protein, synthetic alpha-tocopherol bound to a protein etc. or? So simply upon digestion the protein is broken away leaving the same old cheap forms of the vitamins found in say Centrum?

Edited by edward, 28 January 2008 - 02:11 AM.

[nameless]

I tried getting additional info from New Chapter a while ago, but forgot most of what they said. I think their vitamin A + E come from food sources. For the rest... no idea.

I also remember sending them an email asking how much beta carotene was in their product and if they used K1 or K2. They stated that since it was food sourced, they didn't differentiate between the different types of K, and I got two replies saying they don't measure specific carotenes, since their product had so many.

Then I pointed out their label stated an exact amount of beta carotene, and I simply wanted it converted to a mg range. Then... they stop replying.

Edited by nameless, 28 January 2008 - 05:54 AM.

[niner]

The theory behind this is that vitamins and minerals bound by a glycoprotein matrix are more stable and biovailable compared to conventional vitamins/minerals.

The patent behind this method reveals more information:

http://www.freepaten...om/6942856.html

Ofcourse the final quality depends on the USP vitamin/mineral forms they use in the probiotic culture(Garbage In/Garbage Out). I mailed New Chapter about the actual USP forms they use in the culturing process, but they did not reveal this information.

Thanks for the info, amara. These substances are very much uncharacterized; in other words, we don't know the exact structures of the stuff. Therefore, we would want them to undergo some rigorous pharmacokinetic and pharmacodynamic testing in higher animals, preferably humans, to actually have a good sense of what they do in the body. There probably is something to the methodology, although I suspect that most vitamins and minerals are already bioavailable enough, though some are not. It may well be useful for those that are not, and probably doesn't hurt for those that are, as long as the mixtures are analyzed so that you know how much of each thing you're getting.

[nameless]

I'm bringing up an old thread about 'whole food' vitamins, as out of curiosity I tried getting New Chapter to spill the beans on what they actually put in their Every Man supplements. I used to take them, but stopped a while ago. I'm not sure if they have a new policy, or I just got a blabby support person, but:

Vitamin E is derived from non-GMO soy and sunflower.
Carotenes are from Palm oil and an all-natural controlled non-algal fermentation (not sure what that is exactly).
Minerals added are: Zinc Oxide, Copper Sulfate, and Magnesium Oxide.
And a tablet contains 1 mg of isoflavones.

So... bad minerals, and I guess the rest may be okay. Unless fermentation and their yeast process somehow converts the oxides better than people, I'm not so sure it's ideal. I didn't press further for exact forms of the Bs or other stuff, but I expect it's the same as in most basic multis.

Just posting this info for anyone out there who is taking this multi and was wondering what they are actually consuming.