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Need Nootropic Advice


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#1 warewolf

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Posted 22 August 2005 - 06:21 AM


Hello to everyone, I'm needing a little advice from the experts about where to start with my nootropic exploration. I've lurked around the forums for a few months now and even used a noop regimen for the last month. As my supply runs out, I'd like to reflect on my experience and perhaps see if there's a different avenue I should take for future supplementation.

First of all, I'm a 27 (almost 28) year old male that works a heavy weekend job (physical labor 3/12 hour shifts). During this time I've started taking online classes to gain a BSBA through an accelerated learning program (basically taking a normal 16 week course of 2 classes and turning it into 5.5 weeks of stress and sleeplessness). I've just finished my first two classes and did extremely well considering I haven't been in school or really challenged my intellect for some time (A in both classes). At the time I was taking Essential Mix (multi-vit) from www.relentlessimprovement.com along with Ortho-mind and Aniracetam.

During the first week of taking the supplements, I also was quitting my caffeine intake and inevitably started into withdrawal (head-numbing / throbbing headaches). In the past when I went through this, it usually subsided by the second day, but I noticed the numbing / sensitive sensation in my brain into the second week. I figured my brain was simply adjusting to its new supply of resources so continued to try various combinations of the Ortho-mind and Aniracetam. I'm not sure if I finally hit the mark or if I simply began getting true results after a couple weeks, but I did begin to notice an ability to present information from knowledge that I didn't really know I'd possessed. All of my assignments are writing-based (discussion board, word docs, powerpoint) reflecting the current issue at hand. I read through my text books, listened to the chat presentations, etc... but wasn't really sure that I was storing all the information. When I had to write up my assignments, however, I was able to recall on alot of the knowledge obtained and put it into a sensible structure that left me impressed with what I'd developed.

This was the good stuff I noticed from my time on the stack. Now here's some negatives I observed:

During the days (I frequently have to begin studies from the time I wake up until late evening), shortly after taking 2 pills of Ortho-mind (on an empty stomach as recommended), my brain would fall into a dizzy haze. It was very hard to comprehend anything that I was reading or really do any kind of enhanced cognitive function. I would usually try to switch up my focus from, say my text book, to some internet sources, in hopes of stimulating my mind elsewhere. But all I could really think about was closing my eyes and sitting there. For the most part I would always obtain anywhere between 7-9 hours of sleep so deprivation never seemed applicable. A few hours later (lunch time) I would take 2 pills (1500mg) of Aniracetam and the Essential MIx. Whether it was the Ani, Mix or simply eating, I would begin to feel much better. Finally I would take 2 more pills of Ortho about mid-afternoon to complete my daily stack (this was after adjusting my intake a few different ways and settling on this). Shortly after dinner time (early evening) I would hit this zoned state of mind. Almost like a switch had been flipped. This was usually the time I would start writing up my assignments. If I wasn't doing the homework, I'd find myself pouring over my textbook with a strong comprehension, which always surprised me as learning from text is VERY difficult for me and always has been since grade school. I would also feel a strong desire for creativity, which unfortunately I don't have the time for such diversions, however it did help immensely with my assignments.

Finally, this is what I still feel needs to be improved:

As I stated, learning from text has always been difficult for me and has been the subject of much frustration in past years, but now I am able to understand that its my inability to keep my mind focused on what I'm reading that makes it so hard. I find that this focus also wavers during conversation, where I'll be listening to a person talk but won't be able to process the words they're saying. I can tell when it starts to happen but am unable to refocus. This can create some very embarrasing situations. Even during the times I felt I was in a mental zone, I had to really concentrate on what I was reading in order to comprehend it. It was the comprension that seemed to occur so easily, but it still took effort to remain focused.

What I need from you:

I would like to start from scratch and simplify my regimen a bit. There's a lot in the ortho-mind (Huperzine A, Vinpocetine, Acetyl, etc...) that I may not want to take all at once. Essentially I'd like to continue taking a multivitamin (Life-extensioning standards) along with a racetam (what do you think is best to start with) and add noops from there, adjusting dosages until a peak is found before adding another. I REALLY need something to help with my focus and preferrably something motivational, a way to awaken my mind in the morning and keep me going strong most of the day. There are some days that I don't need to do this and would be nice if the supplement I took was on an as-needed basis.

Thank you so very much for reading my long post and for any feedback you can provide.

#2 xanadu

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Posted 22 August 2005 - 06:13 PM

Those are a lot of questions, Warewolf. I'm not the expert here but maybe I can get you started and the more knowledgeable ones might chime in later. One of the first things that came to mind was are you taking any source of choline and what is it? That might possibly be the cause of the headaches you mention. Another thing that occurs to me is have you been laying off the noots from time to time? I'm fairly new to them myself and I noticed that after a while I got worn out and had to lay off a little to catch up on my rest. Then, after going back on I seemed to have more enthusiasm.

I don't know what's in some of those supplements you spoke of. You need a good multivitamin program and a solid diet. Taking noots does not make up for a poor diet if you have one. It is also no substitute for vitamins. For concentration, some say take pyritonol or perhaps centrophenoxine. I use piracetam along with a couple choline sources and some other things and that seems to work.

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#3 motomatt

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Posted 22 August 2005 - 08:18 PM

I think everybody has there own favorites, Its alot of trial and experimenting to see what works for you.
My favorite 1st thing in Am on empty stomach is Alpha-GPC, Propionyl L -Carnitine,kr-ALA and Epa/Dha.
It awakens my mind in the morning,improves focus and motivation, keep me going strong most of the day. (if I dose 1/2 hr before every meal).
Centrophenoxine also seems to work good for me.
Bacopa monniera seems to depress and make me foggy.
ymmv

#4 warewolf

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Posted 24 August 2005 - 03:15 PM

Hey guys, thanks for the response.

Xanadu - My diet is very balanced. Currently my wife and I practice The Zone diet which acts to balance your body's insulin levels. The Essential Mix I was taking is a multivitamin powder with life extensioning levels. I believe you're right about the lack of Choline being a source of headaches. There is Choline in the Ortho-mind but apparently not enough.

Motomatt - Thanks for the input. I'll do some research on those that you listed.

I guess what I'm really wanting to know at this point is what I should be focusing on for a complete regimen and which supplements I should add at a time. I don't want to just get a bunch of stuff to start taking at once. I would like to take 1 or 2 to add and experiment with in order to determine each effect and vary the dosing accrodingly. Once I've established my peak, then I would add the next supplement of my desired regimen.

If anybody can offer some ideas as to what supplements are best to start out with, it would be greatly appreciated. There so much information out there its quite overwhelming, and with my busy schedule I don't get much of a chance to just study it all.

Thank you for your time!

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#5 warewolf

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Posted 25 August 2005 - 04:21 AM

Any suggestions would certainly be appreciated. Thanks.




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