94 replies to this topic

[justinb]

Do you believe that Nootropics increase IQ?

[scottl]

Is this academic interest, or wondering if they can be of assistance to you?

[wannafulfill]

I am no expert, but I've tried pretty much every popular nootropic except nefiracetam, and I think you could find some combination of them that would increase your performance on the test. I have never taken a proper day-long IQ test though, I am told. Lifemirage has said before that he is sure that nootropics can and have increased scores on them. I guess I would say that I think IQ tests aren't worth much at all, in other words they don't tell you as much people think, ie not an objective measure of "intelligence"

[enemy]

I guess I would say that I think IQ tests aren't worth much at all, in other words they don't tell you as much people think, ie not an objective measure of "intelligence"

Either that, or the concept of intelligence itself cannot be considered under the auspices of objectivity...

[wannafulfill]

I would say that intelligence itself cannot be considered under the auspices of objectivity, yes.

[xanadu]

I found that piracetam gave me more mental energy though it was somewhat scattered. That would be good for creativity and it does help with speaking and communicating though you have to watch rambling. Memory also gets better, noticably, on piracetam and some other racetams. Vinpocetine makes a slight improvement though it's hard to notice. I've been trying centrophenoxine and while it's hard to completely separate the effects from piracetam which I take at the same time, it does seem to help with concentration, as people have said. You will find that you are quicker on the uptake with nootropics, your memory is better, you concentrate more easily and you are more creative. Is that the same as intelligence?

[justinb]

Like others I can't say anything on IQ itself, but i do notice my mind is sharper and memory is better...overal plain IQ is not of such great importance to me
i've even read that people with very high IQ are usually anxious, irritable and such, and most of them is not really sucessfull above average in their societies...so who needs higher IQ

That is a gross misconception. Most people with high IQs are well adjusted and have fuller and healthier lives, especially compared to the average folk.

[Infernity]

How can you guys explain high IQ people who are believers of god and other spiritual things?

I call that mental illness.

No I am not scorning, I am just being honest and open.

Some people might need methylenedioxymethamphetamine after all to get few thoughts fixed. Or what? [:o]

IQ test can be taken when you are set under different moods and chromosomes, so yes, the results of the test can change. But the IQ itself, I believe it can't, so you'll never know exactly.

-Infernity

Edited by infernity, 26 August 2005 - 09:20 PM.

[liorrh]

How can you guys explain high IQ people who are believers of god and other spiritual thing?

well, I belive amygdala invoked (emotions) drives have a much stronger weight/levarge in descision making than higher brain rational reasoning. that is why NLP works, and that is why most use their IQ just to prove what they allready believe in or learn things in line with their dogma.

the only way to subvert your brain and be realy open is to be aware and condition youself properly against any habituation and paradygm. IQ does not imply high awareness.


and to the original poster - if you are reffering to tests than I have evidenced it on myself and others, in tests such GMAT. no experience with actual IQ tests. Im pretty sure they would help though.

I believe estrogen can also help, as well as other endocrine factors.

Edited by liorrh, 26 August 2005 - 11:29 PM.

[LifeMirage]

Do you believe that Nootropics increase IQ?

Yes in my experience certain ones can cause quite a difference.

[justinb]

Yes in my experience certain ones can cause quite a difference.

But IQ is genetic. You will never increase your IQ, just reach your potential. Nootropics will never increase IQ, they will only help us reach our potential; if they even do that.

[Infernity]

Why are you asking a question and not accepting the answer, silly?

-Infernity

[justinb]

Why are you asking a question and not accepting the answer, silly?

-Infernity

The question was posted to see how people here view Nootropics and to measure their level of understanding of neurological constructs. I.Q. is genetic.

Here is a nice link.

[liorrh]

you mean your IQ potential is genetic? not the as "IQ is genetic"

[DJS]

Justin

Do you believe that Nootropics increase IQ?

I believe that nootropics can improve scores on standardized IQ tests. Whether nootropics can actually improve IQ is another matter entirely. I generally agree with you that nootropics work toward maximizing your potential, but not increasing your potential.

I like to think of IQ as "mental ingenuity". There is evidence that "IQ" is determined not just by genetic factors Justin, but also by environmental factors that an individual is exposed to early in their childhood development. However, I would agree that by the time one reaches adulthood his or her IQ has largely been established.

With that said, IQ is not the only relevant factor when it comes to mental acuity. Both the fidelity and the ability to access memory are also extremely crucial. And in these areas nootropics have proven enhancement effects.

[enigma]

I have never taken a credible IQ test, I would expect that my IQ has improved, perhaps, 10 - 12 points from taking nootropics. But IQ is not an absolute measure of intelligence.

Intelligence = what one considers as intelligent, and there is much debate here.

Nootropics can (probably in many cases) raise your IQ above your natural potential. That is to say, that without taking nootropics it may be impossible to achieve the same IQ as with.

And, IQ is dependent on genes yes, but also external influence.

By saying that IQ is dependent on Genes, you are saying that it is the design of our brains which determines its functioning which determines IQ. Well, nootropics can change its functioning and so too, improve IQ.

[zoolander]

I could train my mind in a way to suit that in which IQ tests are set. This way I will score better when I sit the test. Thererfore, doesn't this mean that I can artificially manipulate an IQ test in a way that has nothing to do with my intelligence. Some may say though that manipulation is a way of adapting to your environment and hence a sign of intelligence.

Define intelligence anyway. Is it the ability to adapt to one's environment? Are we refering to the minds ability to adapt to the environment? There are many questions you could ask but IMO I think your percieved change is important. What happens to your awareness?

We are also looking at subjective versus objective here.

IMO nootropics appear to help me retain information. Nootropics appear also to have helped me operate in a more efficent and productive fashion. Nootropics have just helped me operate at my best with what I already have.

Hey, who said that one's IQ is genetic? Big deal if your IQ is genetic anyway. This does not mean that it is set. It is common knowledge that one can upregulate and downregulate genes through diet. I can modify the expression of proteins through dietary manipulation.

Can someone please tell me how I got 11% on a entrance exam to university 8 years ago but know have a GPA of 7? Has this got anything to do with my IQ?

[xanadu]

As has been said, IQ is an artificial number. It's a composite of skills that are considered important in society. Many people with high IQ's are great in certain areas but unable to function in others. How many very smart people have you met who were frequently broke or just of modest means? How many never moved up very high in the organisation? How many never accomplished much? I'd say overall, smart people rise to the top but some types of smarts are not recognised by tests. What was Picasso's or Da Vinci's IQ? They were very creative people. Does anyone know Einstein's IQ? He was arguably the most brilliant man in recent history but died nearly broke. He was never able to cash in on his work whereas lesser minds made millions and billions.

My limited experience with nootropics leads me to believe they help very much with memory, making connections, concentration and creativity. Only some of these are measured by standardised tests. An IQ test is like deciding how strong someone is by measuring how big around their biceps are. Fat people will have big biceps but not be as strong as a fit person. Strong people might not be as agile or as able to defend themselves as a less strong person who has trained himself. IQ tests give important information but their correlation with success or creativity is not super high.

Just my opinion on the subject.

[johnmk]

Why are you asking a question and not accepting the answer, silly?

-Infernity

The question was posted to see how people here view Nootropics and to measure their level of understanding of neurological constructs. I.Q. is genetic.

Here is a nice link.

Arrogance really doesn't suit you my friend.

I thank you for starting the discussion and others for their contribution. I believe the mind to be maleable. Does this make me a malebian? One can, through exercise of mind and body, improved diet, drugs, etc., improve upon the operation of their brain. This is my opinion, and while I do not have the time to dig up research to support it, I have seen ample evidence in my few years of studying health, nutrition, and cognition, that supports it.

[justinb]

I like to think of IQ as "mental ingenuity". There is evidence that "IQ" is determined not just by genetic factors Justin, but also by environmental factors that an individual is exposed to early in their childhood development. However, I would agree that by the time one reaches adulthood his or her IQ has largely been established.

IQ is genetic. Environmental factors only work on your potential, which is solely genetic. If you smoke pot, never read and never attend class, of course your IQ scores are going to be low. If you have the healthiest diet and are constantly stimulated and supported by your parents and peers, of course you are going to score higher than someone who is in an atrocious environment. Your actual intelligence is genetic. You can never surpass your genetics, only reach them. An IQ test measures your current functioning, not your genetic potential; which IS your IQ.

How many very smart people have you met who were frequently broke or just of modest means?

Perhaps they have found that there is more to life than just making money?

Xanadu, you seam to be very interested in making money. Just because you are poor doesn't mean you are a failure. GET OVER IT.

IQ tests give important information but their correlation with success or creativity is not super high.

IQ tests are not meant to measure success or "creativity." They only measure potential for abstract thought.

Arrogance really doesn't suit you my friend.

I am not arrogant. I am simply pointing out something that everyone here most except! Ask anyone with a education about IQ and genetics. They will say the same thing I am saying. It doesn't take a great education and high IQ to figure out that our genetics is our potential.

One can, through exercise of mind and body, improved diet, drugs, etc., improve upon the operation of their brain. This is my opinion, and while I do not have the time to dig up research to support it, I have seen ample evidence in my few years of studying health, nutrition, and cognition, that supports it.

Yes, you can increase mental performance through the above acts.

YOU CANNOT INCREASE GENETIC POTENTIAL!!!

Edited by justinb, 28 August 2005 - 02:12 AM.

[xanadu]

Justin, I am not rich but I'm far from poor. I will not continue this discussion with you as I see you more interested in trolling than anything else.

I think people have potential which is largely but not totally geneticly determined. Early experiences, education and training have a large role as do nootropics. I'm guessing but I estimate that noots will improve someone's IQ by up to 20% or so.

[losty]

WOW!!! JUSTIN!!! YOUR DEPTH OF UNDERSTANDING IS AMAZING!!! YOUR ABILTY TO COMMUNICATE YOUR KNOWLEDGE IS ASTONISHING!!


"YOU CANNOT INCREASE GENETIC POTENTIAL!!!

The way your brain works is governed by your genetics!

YOU CAN ONLY REACH YOUR POTENTIAL!

YOU CANNOT SURPASS YOUR POTENTIAL! "



YOU MUST COME FROM A LONG LINE OF TRULY AMAZING PEOPLE!!

I THINK THEY USED TO CALL IT "GOOD BREEDING"


"An IQ test measures your current functioning, not your genetic potential; which IS your IQ.

But IQ is genetic. You will never increase your IQ, just reach your potential. Nootropics will never increase IQ, they will only help us reach our potential; if they even do that. "

WHAT AN IMPRESSIVE GRASP!

Thanks for the education!

[lifemission]

Justin, you asked the people here whether they believe nootropics can increase IQ... They have all offered their beliefs it seems your intentions were just to argue your own belief against any challengers.
I personally believe that the mind/brain has more to it than just genetic potential.

IQ tests are not meant to measure success or "creativity." They only measure potential for abstract thought.

So is that what it's all about?? That seems less important than compassion, humility, insight and other human abilities anyway.
Spirtual growth and understanding of life is not bound by my IQ score so I'm not concerned.
I believe that life is as you believe, and the more you believe the more you may become...
Namaste'

[justinb]

Losty,

I was a little inmature of me by writing 4 lines of bolds. But, unfortunately it is the only to get people's attention when they don't like what someone has to say.

IQ is genetic. If you don't know that and refuse to educate yourself as to why it is, then please ask a professional to explain it to you. I, unfortunately, am not a medical doctor in the neurosciences or hold a Ph.D. in a neurological field, so I cannot explain to you in succint technical. If you want that, then please read articles by neurologists and if you don't have the prerequisite knowledge then either obtain it or speak with an expert. I, lacking expertise, cannot easily shoot done every silly objection people have, or, for that matter present a thorough enough explanation as to why it is solely genetic. I can only repeat what I have heard from countless neurologists, psychiatrists and researchers in the neurosciences. Other than that, I can only say that it is genetic because the genes control all formation and function of the brain. The degree of plasicity in the brain is solely due to genetics. PLEASE contact an expert before you reply to what I have just said (or at least show that you have the expertise), or else I will ignore you.

So is that what it's all about?? That seems less important than compassion, humility, insight and other human abilities anyway.
Spirtual growth and understanding of life is not bound by my IQ score so I'm not concerned.
I believe that life is as you believe, and the more you believe the more you may become...
Namaste'

If it wasn't for intelligence we would still be throughing crap at each other in the jungle.

Only stupid people....

Rape others, murder, molest people, beat their wifes, steal, terrorize, etc, etc.

Oh, and before you give me an example that breaks the above statement, just reflect on the fact that for every genius that broke this rule I can easily point to millions of individuals of low intellect that did just what I listed. Perhaps one out of 10,000 geniuses have done what I just listed while about 1 out of 2 people of regular intellect have done at least one of those things.

Edited by justinb, 28 August 2005 - 02:35 AM.

[lifemission]

Like I said before.. "it seems your intentions were just to argue your own belief against any challengers."
Ask yourself "what are my motives and intentions?" this is most important before going any further in life.
You say you're "lacking expertise on this subject"...so become an expert before trying to crash down with your alleged facts..
Try to have an open mind, you're going to stress yourself out trying to convince people to only believe what you feel that you know for sure.
Believe what you want, it's your right. Let others do the same, or they might just throw crap at you [lol]
Peace dude

[justinb]

You say you're "lacking expertise on this subject"...so become an expert before trying to crash down with your alleged facts..

Yes, I am not an expert. And I readibly admit that, unlike many here. Although I have spoken with many experts and have read countless papers all stating the same thing. They are not alleged facts. All you need to do is do a search in google schoolar for two seconds to find that IQ is genetic. Unfortunately people never care enough about the truth to research anything that goes against their beliefs. And, in line with that I have searched for contridictions and have found none with any sort of merit.

I already posted a good link above and if you want more I will be happy to provide them.

As far as my intentions.... I wanted people to know that you cannot increase your IQ; you can only reach your potential. Of course, I have already stated that ad nauseam.

[enigma]

justinb,

I am aware that IQ is very strongly correlated to genetics and that ones IQ is limited by genetics. But this is off topic.

Nootropics (certain ones) can improve your IQ, as I said before.

By saying that IQ is dependent on Genes, you are saying that it is the design of our brains which determines its functioning which determines IQ. Well, nootropics can change its functioning and so too, improve IQ.

Do you understand that?