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Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment


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#61 sushil_yadav

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Posted 21 August 2009 - 01:59 AM

But um....humans destroying nature? You're giving your species way too much credit here, this planet can easily whoop your ass. A couple of floods, tsunamis etc. and everybody and their grand ideas of immortalism, cryonics, and nanotechnologies are going right down the drain, literally. So if you tickle the sleeping dragon with some nice pollution, you might get it in a major way.

Doesn't mean humans are destroying it, they're just stupidly about to unleash the wrath of mother nature. When it shakes us all off, the planet will be just as fine as it's been for ages.


We have little control over natural disasters. The present ecological crisis is man-made. Humans have destroyed most ecosystems within 250 years of Industrial Revolution. No meteorite decimated millions of other species in this period - no meteorite destroyed forest cover in this period - no meteorite decimated fish in the oceans. It was man who did all this and much more.

Industrial Society is insane. It believes ecosystems can be saved while it continues to increase "growth rate", "economy rate" and GDP.

City people are the problem - city people are the parasites eating away the ecosystems.

Today 50% of world population - 3 billion people are living in cities. Most of the people living in cities are engaged in unnecessary work, overwork, destructive work - making things, buying things and selling things.

We can still make our remaining ecosystems last longer if we limit our production to food, clothing and shelter [ and health care]. We can still make our remaining ecosystems last longer if we stop production of consumer goods or reduce it to the minimum level.

But the problem here is - what are we going to do with the 3 billion people living in cities most of whom are engaged in making things, buying things and selling things. There is no surplus farm land on earth where these people can be relocated.

All of these people cannot stop activity to do meditation - this requires ability and years of effort. So what do we do with the 3 billion people living in cities - how do we keep them occupied without destroying the ecosystems?


Believing that we can save ecosystems while we continue making consumer goods is like believing we can cure cancer while we continue flooding the environment with thousands of carcinogens.

It is like believing we can have peace in this world while the "Military Industrial Complex" continues to produce and sell billions of tonnes of weapons all over the world.

Humans are the destroyers of ecosystems - they are not going to become the saviours of ecosystems.

Asking humans to save environment is like asking petrol to extinguish a fire.


Weather is becoming hotter, irregular and unpredictable across the globe. We have lost most of the forests and a large percentage of ice in Arctic region and glaciers elsewhere. Forests and ice have played a major role in regulating wind speed and direction of wind and monsoon/ rain clouds. Weather patterns were fairly constant for thousands of years. All that is changing now. In India the summer season is no longer the same as before - winters are not the same and monsoon rains are also no longer the same as before.

In the coming years agriculture is going to collapse worldwide due to change and irregularity of weather. Man has already decimated fish in the oceans. There will be nothing left for man to eat. The human species is going to starve to death. Just wait and see what happens in the next two decades.

sushil_yadav
Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment

Edited by sushil_yadav, 21 August 2009 - 02:20 AM.


#62 russianBEAR

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Posted 26 August 2009 - 10:41 PM

But um....humans destroying nature? You're giving your species way too much credit here, this planet can easily whoop your ass. A couple of floods, tsunamis etc. and everybody and their grand ideas of immortalism, cryonics, and nanotechnologies are going right down the drain, literally. So if you tickle the sleeping dragon with some nice pollution, you might get it in a major way.

Doesn't mean humans are destroying it, they're just stupidly about to unleash the wrath of mother nature. When it shakes us all off, the planet will be just as fine as it's been for ages.


We have little control over natural disasters. The present ecological crisis is man-made. Humans have destroyed most ecosystems within 250 years of Industrial Revolution. No meteorite decimated millions of other species in this period - no meteorite destroyed forest cover in this period - no meteorite decimated fish in the oceans. It was man who did all this and much more.

Industrial Society is insane. It believes ecosystems can be saved while it continues to increase "growth rate", "economy rate" and GDP.

City people are the problem - city people are the parasites eating away the ecosystems.

Today 50% of world population - 3 billion people are living in cities. Most of the people living in cities are engaged in unnecessary work, overwork, destructive work - making things, buying things and selling things.

We can still make our remaining ecosystems last longer if we limit our production to food, clothing and shelter [ and health care]. We can still make our remaining ecosystems last longer if we stop production of consumer goods or reduce it to the minimum level.

But the problem here is - what are we going to do with the 3 billion people living in cities most of whom are engaged in making things, buying things and selling things. There is no surplus farm land on earth where these people can be relocated.

All of these people cannot stop activity to do meditation - this requires ability and years of effort. So what do we do with the 3 billion people living in cities - how do we keep them occupied without destroying the ecosystems?


Believing that we can save ecosystems while we continue making consumer goods is like believing we can cure cancer while we continue flooding the environment with thousands of carcinogens.

It is like believing we can have peace in this world while the "Military Industrial Complex" continues to produce and sell billions of tonnes of weapons all over the world.

Humans are the destroyers of ecosystems - they are not going to become the saviours of ecosystems.

Asking humans to save environment is like asking petrol to extinguish a fire.


Weather is becoming hotter, irregular and unpredictable across the globe. We have lost most of the forests and a large percentage of ice in Arctic region and glaciers elsewhere. Forests and ice have played a major role in regulating wind speed and direction of wind and monsoon/ rain clouds. Weather patterns were fairly constant for thousands of years. All that is changing now. In India the summer season is no longer the same as before - winters are not the same and monsoon rains are also no longer the same as before.

In the coming years agriculture is going to collapse worldwide due to change and irregularity of weather. Man has already decimated fish in the oceans. There will be nothing left for man to eat. The human species is going to starve to death. Just wait and see what happens in the next two decades.

sushil_yadav
Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment

I'm pretty sure I've seen the last part of your post refuted somewhere, along the lines of "there have been similar fluctiations centuries and centuries ago, and this is just another one of those". Also, what's stopping weather from becoming unpredictable just for the hell of it? It doesn't need to always follow these same boring patterns...hey the dinosaurs got extinct in a similar way I believe, maybe the ecosystem has decided that it will be time for us to go slowly now ? How would you like just a complete end to the human experience with no ands, ifs and buts? 


Now the part about nothing to eat has more to do with what you said about living in cities and overpopulation - we've been consuming genetically modified products for quite a while. Heck, I tried real fresh milk, literally straight from a cow the other day at my "dacha" - it tasted absolutely nothing like the stuff you buy in stores. My stomach was probably surprised too, like "no genetically modified stuff to digest? weird". 

Now doing meditation is easy, but making all these people recognize that they're leading a lifestyle which leads to nowhere is another story. With the way corporations and the government are, I doubt there will be a paradigm shift big enough to make it happen.

#63 sushil_yadav

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Posted 05 October 2009 - 03:51 AM

...making all these people recognize that they're leading a lifestyle which leads to nowhere is another story. With the way corporations and the government are, I doubt there will be a paradigm shift big enough to make it happen.


russianBEAR,

Thanks for your post.

What is most amazing about the issue of sustainability is the fact that modern society is trying to sustain the unsustainable - it is trying to sustain a consumerist system which has existed for almost zero percent of human existence on earth. The present consumerist lifestyle has existed for about 100 years. If we compare this with the total duration of human existence on earth it comes to almost zero percent.

Economy is a non-issue. Environment is important. Economy will not even exist without environment. Humans will not even exist without environment.

Modern society has plunged to extreme depths of insanity.

Modern society thinks it can be sustainable while it continues producing thousands of consumer goods.

Modern society thinks a peaceul world is possible while it continues to sell billions of tonnes of weapons all over the world.

Modern society thinks cancer can be cured while it continues flooding the ecosystems with thousands of carcinogens.


On a small planet which is just 40,000 km in circumference the first rule of sustainability is - destroy less.

We destroy ecosystems for food - for clothing - for shelter - and for thousands of consumer goods.

The less we destroy - the more sustainable we are.

The fewer things we make - the more sustainable we are.


On a small planet like earth only a non-consumerist society can be sustainable - only a society that destroys ecosystems for food, clothing, shelter[and health care] can be sustainable.



When something goes wrong with our cars, computers and aeroplanes, we contact the manufacturer to know how they could be repaired - where they could be repaired.

All ecosystems on earth are getting destroyed moment by moment. To repair, restore and regenerate them we need to contact the manufacturer. But where is the manufacturer of ecosystems? There is no human manufacturer - There are no multiNational Companies that manufactured rivers and oceans, fertile soil, forests, millions of species, millions of members in millions of species, arctic ice and other glaciers.

About 30 years ago most people refused to believe that arctic ice was melting or could melt in future.

Then satellite pictures started appearing and provided proof with "before and after" pictures. People reluctantly accepted that ice was melting - but were still not alarmed. They said it would take hundreds of years - thousands of years for ice to melt to a dangerous level.

If we compare satellite pictures of arctic ice of this year with those taken 30 years ago we would know how alarming the situation is.

Every ecosystem is in grave danger. The doomsday scenario is approaching hundreds of times faster than predicted earlier. The signs - the indicators are already there - the recent climate changes - the extreme weather conditions - droughts, floods, fires, hurricanes and typhoons. The collapse has already happened for millions of other species - they have been decimated. Human collapse is very near - just around the corner.


sushil_yadav
Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment

Edited by sushil_yadav, 05 October 2009 - 03:56 AM.


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#64 eternaltraveler

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Posted 05 October 2009 - 02:53 PM

Industrial society and humans, for all their flaws, are the only chance any life on this planet has for surviving for more than another billion years or so. You're parasites may well be ultimately be responsible for an explosion of life throughout the galaxy and beyond with many orders of magnitude more diversity than anything we could ever hope to fit on this rock.

If this type of luddism is successful the result could be the loss of more than you can hope to imagine. Have some perspective.
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#65 sushil_yadav

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Posted 17 October 2009 - 05:40 PM

Industrial society and humans, for all their flaws, are the only chance any life on this planet has for surviving for more than another billion years or so.

If this type of luddism is successful the result could be the loss of more than you can hope to imagine. Have some perspective.


All ecosystems have been destroyed after Industrial Revolution. The cause was not luddism - but science, technology and industrialization.

Millions of species have been decimated. The cause was not luddism - but science, technology and industrialization.


Very soon science is going to announce the gene for environmental destruction.

Humans are not responsible for environmental destruction - it is the gene.



Humans are not responsible for anything - the genes are responsible for everything.

It is the gene which is responsible for obesity.

It is the gene which is responsible for cancer.

It is the gene which is responsible for violence/ aggression.

It is the gene which is responsible for mental suffering.


When it comes to Olympic medal they will give it to a person - not to the gene.

When it comes to Nobel Prize they will give it to a person - not to the gene.

When it comes to rewarding work they will pay million dollar salary to the CEO - not to the gene.

When it comes to "Theory of Relativity" they will give credit to Einstein - not to the gene.



sushil_yadav
Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment

Edited by sushil_yadav, 17 October 2009 - 05:42 PM.


#66 sushil_yadav

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Posted 25 October 2009 - 08:56 AM

On earth we have got oceans and oceans of water - which have been polluted/ poisoned by man - but this is hardly news for humans.

Recently Man bombarded the moon with a rocket to discover traces of water - and it became the newspaper headline across the world.

They call it progress, growth, development.


Height of insanity - Height of abnormality.

Don't search for a few molecules of water in outer space.

Take care of the water that is available on earth.


sushil_yadav
Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment

#67 sushil_yadav

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Posted 26 July 2010 - 04:25 AM

Industrial Society is speeding up the demise of ecosystems by providing jobs to all - education to all.

After Industrial Revolution work turned into extra work, over work, unnecessary work, destructive work.

Most of the people living in cities are engaged in the destructive cycle of
production of consumer goods, selling of consumer goods, buying of
consumer goods.This planet is very small - just 40,000 km in
circumference. Today 50% of world population is living in cities - and
this percentage is increasing day by day.

Provide jobs to all?
Provide education to all? - oh yes, provide jobs/education to all and
very soon the human species will go out of existence.

The entire education system is promoting consumerism, extra work, over work, unnecessary work, destructive work.

People who are getting education in technology/ engineering.... are engaged in production of consumer goods.

People who are getting education in the fields of business, finance, MBA....are engaged in selling of consumer goods.

Most of the people getting education in Arts subjects are also engaged in
selling of consumer goods and services - sales and marketing jobs.

If we destroy ecosystems for food, clothing, shelter, health-care the ecosystems will last longer. If we destroy ecosystems for consumer goods in addition to food, clothing, shelter, health-care the ecosystems will finish much sooner.

Industrial Society has destroyed necessary things [animals, trees, air, water,land] for making unnecessary things [consumer goods].

By providing jobs to all - education to all, Industrial Society is destroying the very things that created and sustained all life on earth for millions of years.

Industrial Society is a curse on this planet.



What would happen to your home if 1000 people entered and started doing work continuously - 24 X 7 - picking up things already lying in the house, breaking them up and making new things out of them without stopping?

A similar thing is happening to the planet - 6.8 billion people
continuously engaging in work - destroying the ecosystems moment by
moment.

Man started destroying "extra" after Industrial Revolution. This "extra"
destruction has risen exponentially in the last 50 years.

Work has turned into overwork, unnecessary work, destructive work. People who are working to provide food, clothing, shelter and healthcare are doing work - rest of the population is engaged in overwork, unnecessary work, destructive work.

Ecosystems are not consumer goods that can be manufactured / created by MultiNational Corporations. Who can undo the damage that has been done to ecosystems by billions of people over a period of 200 - 250 years?



Industrial Society has killed billions of acres of fertile soil by covering it with cement and concrete.This is insanity of the highest degree - insanity raised to the power of infinity.We
have got a very small planet. On this small planet two-thirds of
surface area is water. Only one-third is land - and this includes vast
areas of land that are not fertile - deserts, rocky
mountains, ice/ glaciers. There is very little surface area on
earth which is fertile. It is this fertile soil that has produced food
for millions of species that have lived on land for millions of years. Killing billions of acres of fertile soil is insanity of the highest degree - insanity raised to the power of infinity.The punishment is coming - very soon - punishment of the highest degree - punishment raised to the power of infinity.



"Green Industry", "Green Technology", "Green Development".

These are contradictory terms – these are oxymorons.
Industrialization can never be green – it is impossible.

Industry produces three kinds of waste - solid, liquid and gaseous.

There are only three places on earth where this waste can go - air, water, land.

There is no fourth place on earth where Industrial waste can go.

Industrial Society has produced billions of tonnes of solid, liquid and gaseous waste - billions of tonnes of metal waste, chemical waste, plastic waste, eWaste, nuclear waste.........

This waste has killed, polluted and poisoned rivers, lakes, oceans, underground water, the soil/ land, the air/ sky.

Industrialization can never be green – it is impossible.




We have created a society that rapes, plunders and exploits "Mother Earth" 365 days of the year - and then celebrates Earth Day.

When someone destroys the home of a human being it is considered a crime and the accused is sent to prison.

When the human species collectively destroys the homes [ecosystems] of millions of other species it is called Progress, Growth, Development.

The police, the law, the judiciary are trying to catch a few criminals - they do not realize the entire Industrial Society is criminal.

Psychologists and Psychiatrists are trying to classify a few people as abnormal - they do not realize the entire Industrial Society is abnormal.



What is most amazing about the issue of sustainability is the fact that modern society is trying to sustain the unsustainable - it is trying to sustain a consumerist system which has existed for almost zero percent of human existence on earth. The present consumerist lifestyle has existed for about 100 years. If we com...pare this with the total duration of human existence on earth it comes to almost zero percent.

The two things that have destroyed Environment are - Overpopulation and Overconsumerism.

Science, Technology and Industrialization are responsible for both these problems. World population was less than 1 billion in the year 1800. Nature had its way of controlling population through disease and death caused by bacteria and virus. When man made medicines/ antibiotics he created disaster - population increased very rapidly. In the absence of "Industrial Agriculture" the feeding capacity of soil would have kept population under control. If Industrial Revolution had not happened, environmental destruction due to production of consumer goods would not exist. In the absence of Science, Technology and "Industrial Revolution" we would not be facing the two problems that have caused destruction of ecosystems - overpopulation and overconsumerism.

If "Industrial Revolution" had not happened what would be the scenario today?

The feeding capacity of soil would have kept population under control.

Diseases caused by virus and bacteria would have kept population under control.

Maybe I would'nt be existing today - and billions of others may not have existed - but millions/ billions of humans would exist [just like they existed before Industrialization]

Most ecosystems would be hundreds of times/ thousands of times in better shape than today.

Millions of other species that have been decimated by Industrial Society would be existing in very healthy numbers - their population levels thousands of times greater than what they are now.

Providing food, clothing, shelter and healthcare is good. But did "Industrial Society" stop at that?

Do we have an Industrial Society that only provides food, clothing, shelter and healthcare to people?

No - the jokers tried to sell hundreds of consumer goods to all citizens of Industrial Society. They tried to make all people consumerists.

Industrial Society started destroying ecosystems for "consumer goods" in addition to destroying them for food, clothing and shelter.

You cannot do this on a small planet that is just 40,000 km in circumference. If you live this way you end up destroying all ecosystems - you end up decimating all other species - you end up destroying animals, trees, air, water and land - the very things that created and sustained all life on earth.



The earth is sick.

Ecosystems are dying.

Animals, trees, air, water and land are dying.

People say - why bother, it was meant to happen this way, nature will take care of itself.

When people fall sick - they rush to the doctor to save themselves.

When people fall sick - they rush to the hospital to save themselves.

Insane, abnormal, selfish, criminal human species.



Almost every country has been claiming its green cover is increasing.

How can this ever be true?

A fully grown tree is cut down in seconds/ minutes.

It takes 20 years for a tree to grow fully.

The rate of destruction of fully grown trees is hundreds of thousands
of times greater than the rate of replacement of fully grown trees.

And only a small percentage of trees that are planted survive to grow into healthy adult trees.

And even if you manage to replace trees how are you going to replace
the population of millions of species of animals, birds and insects
that lived in the forest and died when the forest was cut down.

Secondly where are you planting new trees? You can plant new trees on forest land only if forest land remains forest land.

But this is not the case.

We have got a very small planet whose circumference is just 40,000 km.
On this small planet two-thirds of surface area is water. Included in
the remaining land area are deserts, rocky mountains and glaciers which
do not support vegetation.

If the soil is fertile and gets rain it will grow forests, trees,
plants, vegetation by itself. This is how nature grew all the forests
in this world.

Before the arrival of man all the land that could grow forests had forests on it.

Then the genius human species arrived on the scene.

First he cut down forests for fire, then he cut down forests for
agriculture and villages. After Industrial Revolution forests were cut
down for towns and cities, for setting up industries/ factories, for
mining and extraction of raw material/minerals, for railways, for road
network.

So once the forest is cut down the land is taken up for agriculture,
for cattle grazing, for industry, for towns and cities, for rail and
road network.

So where are the new trees being planted? Where are they growing up?

How can green cover ever increase?

Lies, lies, lies .........blatant lies.

The rate of destruction of forests has risen exponentially after Industrial Revolution.

One can know the truth by looking at the satellite pictures of forests - before and after. One can compare the pictures taken 30 years ago with those taken this year.



Why did God create the insane human species that is ready to do
everything for the wrong cause and nothing for the right cause – a
species which is willing to do everything to destroy the ecosystems and
nothing to save the ecosystems.

Man is ready to kill and get killed for religion, for country, for honour, for power, for money and fame - But not for environment.

Millions have been killed over trivial issues and causes.
Millions have died for trivial issues and causes.

How many people have died for environment? How many people have died for
the most important / precious things on earth – animals, trees, air,
water and land – the very things that created and sustained all life on
earth.

Most of the ecosystems are already gone. The
little that remains is dying moment by moment. The situation is
extremely critical but the human response is limited to the same old
insanity – bring this technology, bring that technology - bring this technology, bring that technology.

Environmentalism has failed.
Environmentalism never existed.
It was Pseudo-Environmentalism all the way.


When 3000 people died in World Trade Center collapse the west was outraged - Killers, Murderers, Terrorists - they cried out. America vowed to smoke out the culprits - attacked Afghanistan, flattened the country and killed hundreds of thousands of people [directly or indirectly].

When American company "Union Carbide"... killed 20,000 people in Bhopal, India the same desire for justice was not shown by the west.

Why? - Is this not killing, murder, terrorism?

There are hundreds of insecticides/ pesticides that are banned in western countries but the west is selling millions of tonnes of these chemicals in asia - leading to millions of deaths [directly or indirectly].

Is this not killing, murder, terrorism?

The west is shipping millions of tonnes of toxic , hazardous waste to asian countries for recycling - leading to millions of deaths [directly or indirectly].

Is this not killing, murder, terrorism?

The Military Industrial Complex has killed millions of people in wars. No terrorist organization has killed that many people.

Industry kills - Industry kills humans, Industry kills animals, Industry kills trees, Industry kills air, Industry kills water, Industry kills land.

Industry is the killer - Industry is the murderer - Industry is the
terrorist.



Destruction of ecosystems will soon lead to collapse of Industrial Society.

Humans have decimated millions of other species - very soon it will be the turn of Humans to get decimated.

But even decimation of humans will not save ecosystems - only a total wipe-out of humans will save ecosystems.

If a few million humans survive they will again try to build another Industrial Society because they have seen such a society.

Only human extinction will work.

When the human species appears again there must be no memory of Industrialization and consumerism left in the human brain.

It would be best if the human species never ever appears on the planet again.


This planet can only sustain societies that produce their own food.

This planet cannot sustain societies that do not produce their own food.

Everyone in this world is eating food.

But everyone in this world is not producing food.

Today 50% of world population is living in cities. This population is not producing food. A society that does not produce its own food creates unnecessary work to keep itself occupied. People would go crazy if this unnecessary work is not created. A city-based/ non-farming society is mostly engaged in production and selling of consumer goods and services. Work turns into over-work, extra work, destructive work.

When society produces its own food it destroys ecosystems for food, clothing, shelter.

When society does not produce its own food it destroys ecosystems for "consumer goods" in addition to food, clothing, shelter.

Cities existed before Industrial Revolution but their destructive impact was very little because they were not producing consumer goods that are being made today.

We can never save environment if we are destroying extra - We can never save environment if we destroy it for "consumer goods" in addition to food, clothing and shelter.

It is impossible to save environment as long as cities exist.

It is impossible to save environment if we have societies that do not produce their own food.



Over-exploitation of ecosystems became possible only due to modern technology/ machines.

In the absence of modern technology/ machines it would be impossible for man to destroy all ecosystems.

If modern technology/ machines had not come into existence man would
have probably destroyed some ecosystems on land [forests] - and that
too at a much slower rate than that of the present Industrial Society.

It would have been impossible for man to destroy ecosystems in the sea/ oceans.

It would have been impossible for man to carry out largescale mining
activity and destroy ecosystems on the surface and deep inside the
earth.

It would have been impossible for man to poison the earth with thousands of toxic chemicals.

It would have been impossible for man to generate billions of tonnes of
solid, liquid and gaseous waste that has poisoned the air, water and
land - the entire planet.

It would have been impossible for man to generate billions of tonnes of
metal waste, plastic waste, eWaste, nuclear waste...... that has
poisoned the entire planet.

The Machine has killed all ecosystems.

It is impossible to save the remaining ecosystems as long as the machine exists.

The Machine will devour everything that remains on earth.

Machine is the killer.

Kill the machine.



The shameless, insane, abnormal and criminal human species
gets alarmed only when other species are about to go extinct – not before. And
even this late concern is fake - how could it ever be real.

The crime happens much before extinction of species. The tragedy happens much
before extinction of species.

This planet was made for millions of species - not for man alone.

The crime/ tragedy happened much earlier than extinction when man decimated all
other species.

The crime/ tragedy happened much earlier when the population of each species
dropped from millions to thousands and hundreds.

How would humans feel if the roles were reversed and the following happened.

All the animals of the world join hands to decimate the human species.

Humans are outraged , they cry out - killers, murderers, criminals, terrorists.

The animals say - "what are you complaining about?".

We are so compassionate - we did'nt kill all of you.

You should be grateful that we did'nt make you extinct.

There are 10 of you still alive on every continent.



Jobs or Environment?

Economy or Environment?

These are the questions that are being asked today.

This is insanity raised to the power of infinity.

Do we need to discuss, debate and argue for 100 years to know the answer?

Do we need to do research for 100 years to know the answer?

What would be the response of this genius society if professional killers said - you should not stop us from killing people - if you do that you are taking away our jobs.

Jobs are killing ecosystems, work is killing ecosystems, economy is killing ecosystems - work has turned into overwork, unnecessary work, extra work, destructive work.

Industrial Society is destroying necessary things [animals, trees, air, water, land] for making unnecessary things [consumer goods].

Without environment humans will not even exist.

Without environment millions of other species will not exist.

We are alive because of nature - we owe our very existence to nature.

But this insane, abnormal and criminal "Industrial Society" continues to choose jobs instead of environment - economy instead of environment.

Insanity raised to the power of infinity.



Out of millions of species the human species is the only species which is insane enough to believe that food comes from money.

Millions of other species have lived on earth for millions of years. Their food did not come from money.

Food does not come from money - food comes from nature - food grows because of nature - food exists because of fertile soil, water, air, sunlight.......

Industrial Society has killed, polluted, poisoned the very things that produce food.

You can load trillions of dollars into a rocket and send it to the moon - you will not be able to buy a single grain of food over there.

Money is paper, money is plastic - money is not food.

Chief Seattle of the Indian Tribe had warned :

"only after the last tree has been cut down, only after the last river has been poisoned, only after the last fish has been caught, only then will you realize that you cannot eat money"



When is this insane society going to understand that it is not just Industrial accidents that destroy ecosystems - all Industrial activity destroys ecosystems.

The Bhopal gas tragedy killed 20,000 people, crippled half a million people for life, killed thousands of animals and birds, killed/ polluted/ poisoned... the air, water and soil.

Union Carbide was making pesticides/ insecticides in its plant. These carcinogenic insecticides and pesticides are killing millions of people all over the world every year - directly or indirectly. These toxic insecticides and pesticides are poisoning millions of acres of soil every year, These toxic insecticides and pesticides are killing millions of animals and birds every year. These toxic insecticides and pesticides are poisoning the underground and above-ground water sources. These toxic insecticides and pesticides have poisoned the entire food chain leading to multiple organ failure, genetic defects, birth defects.

If the Bhopal Gas Tragedy had not happened the toxic insecticides and pesticides produced by Union Carbide would have still led to destruction of ecosystems, killing of humans, animals, birds, air, water and soil.


Recently there was an oil spill in the sea in US. The oil is killing marine life.

Oil kills ecosystems when it spills into the sea.

Oil kills ecosystems even when it does'nt spill into the sea.

If the oil had not spilled into the sea it would have been used to power ships that move around oceans - catching fish, killing marine life, torturing marine life moment by moment. At any given time there are 50,000 ships moving in the oceans.

If the oil had not spilled it would have been used to run millions of cars, other vehicles, aeroplanes - whose exhausts would release millions of tonnes of toxic gases into the atmosphere. That is not all - ecosystems are killed to manufacture millions of cars, trucks, ships and aeroplanes that run on oil.

If the oil had not spilled into the sea it would have been used to run millions of industries and factories - all of which kill ecosystems - animals, trees, air, water, land.


When we make consumer goods we kill Animals/ Trees, Air/ Water and Land - directly or indirectly.

Industrial Society destroys ecosystems - all Industrial Societies destroy ecosystems.

It hardly matters whether it is "Capitalist Industrial Society" - "Communist Industrial Society" - or "Socialist Industrial Society".

Industrial Society destroys ecosystems at every stage of its functioning - when consumer goods are produced - when consumer goods are used - when consumer goods are discarded/ recycled.

Raw material for industry is obtained by cutting up Forests. It is extracted by mining/ digging up the earth. It comes by destroying/ killing Trees, Animals and Land.

Industries/ Factories use Water. The water that comes out of Factories is contaminated with hundreds of toxic chemicals. Industry kills Water. What to speak of Rivers - entire Oceans have been polluted.

Industries burn millions of tonnes of fuel and when raw material is melted/ heated up, hundreds of toxic chemicals are released into the atmosphere. Industry kills Air.

Industrial Society has covered millions of square miles of land with cement and concrete. Industry kills Land.

When consumer goods are discarded/ thrown away in landfills it again leads to destruction of ecosystems.

When consumer goods are recycled, hundreds of toxic chemicals are released into air, water and land.

Consumer goods are sold/ marketed through a network of millions of kilometers of rail / road network and shipping routes which causes destruction of all ecosystems that come in the way.

Industrial Society has generated billions of tonnes of hazardous solid, liquid and gaseous waste - billions of tonnes of metal waste, plastic
waste, eWaste, chemical waste, nuclear waste.


When an Industrial accident happens the focus of entire world shifts to it.

All environmentalists are outraged.

As if the environment was in good shape before the accident and will be in good shape after the accident.

The problem is not Industrial accident -the problem is not any particular Industrial accident - the problem is Industry itself.

Industrial accidents will continue to happen as long as Industry exists.

They will only get bigger and bigger.

Bigger the Industry bigger the Industrial accident.


Industry kills ecosystems when there is an Industrial accident.

Industry kills ecosystems even when there is no Industrial accident.

All Industrial activity is an accident.

All Industrial activity destroys ecosystems.

All Industrial activity kills animals, trees, air, water, land.

All Industrial activity leads to environmental crisis, environmental disaster, environmental catastrophe.

It is impossible to save ecosystems as long as industry exists.




Technology has destroyed ecosystems.

But the Techno-Worshippers of this insane Industrial Society want still more technology, new technology, better technology, advanced technology - they claim that technology will save the ecosystems.

Two thousand years ago the air was clean - it was not contaminated with billions of tonnes of toxic Industrial gases and particulate matter.

Which technology made the air clean? - American?....British?....German?....Japanese?

Two thousand years ago the rivers and oceans were clean - they were not contaminated with billions of tonnes of toxic Industrial waste.

Which technology made the water clean? - American?....British?....German?....Japanese?

Two thousand years ago the planet was full of forests - millions of species thrived - their population was hundreds and thousands of times greater than what it is now.

Which technology made this possible? - American?....British?....German?....Japanese?

Two thousand years ago the oceans were full of fish and other marine species.

Which technology made this possible? - American?....British?....German?....Japanese?

Two thousand years ago billions of tonnes of solid, liquid and gaseous waste did not exist on this planet.

Which technology made this possible? - American?....British?....German?....Japanese?

Two thousand years ago billions of tonnes of metal waste, plastic waste, chemical waste, eWaste, nuclear waste did not exist on this planet.

Which technology made this possible? - American?....British?....German?....Japanese?


Technology does not save ecosystems - it is the absence of technology that saves ecosystems.

Science, technology and industrialization lead to over-exploitation of ecosystems.

Technology is not the saviour of ecosystems - technology is the destroyer of ecosystems.


sushil_yadav
Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment
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#68 Kolos

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Posted 01 August 2010 - 11:55 AM

Honestly I don't care about "ecosystems" and eco-luddite crap like that.
Thanks to industrial revolution I'm still alive (progress in medicine) it's probably the same with sushi and other eco-luddites and their children too but it seems that people like that don't really care about humans, they only care about their precious ecosystems. But it's not like this ecosystem are immortal or something, natural disasters destroyed far more than human civilization and industrial revolution so it seems they just hate the idea of human interference in nature for some bizzare, semireligious reasons. I call people like that parasites of human society and civilization, they even dare to use products of industrial revolution like internet to spread their bullshit, it's like they have no shame.
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#69 robomoon

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Posted 06 August 2010 - 09:14 PM

Care is needed, and a table with wonderfully tasty and healthy food. A table surrounded by flowers, near a lake, birds singing, bees humming, smell of a forest nearby. Robots in the wilderness watching without a pause to fight against forest fires, poachers, and trucks with toxic chemical waste to dump into the lake causing stinking rotten dead fish, disturbing our breakfast at the table where we are, together with Shell Oil managers, feesting, enjoying conversation, while an 18 biological years old superhuman is telling us about a Century Project for eco preservation models rendered by supercomputers on the Moon, just like the way a Biosphere, Homosphere, and Robosphere are http://www.solonline...rana/index.html used to be.

Edited by robomoon, 06 August 2010 - 09:20 PM.


#70 CuringTheSane

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Posted 23 August 2010 - 11:59 PM

sushil_yadav, you have a point, but don't expect any sympathy or agreement from the people here. They believe technology will fix everything, and that although there may be problems with industrial society, they see all of these problems as capable of being controlled or eliminated through the development of technology. Arguments can be made from both perspectives, however since I have been on these forums I have not seen one solid argument made by anyone in any thread, or post. This is the internet after all, and the same can be said of most other forums, or chatrooms, where people generally talk casually, or in a manner not fit for clinical dissection by philosophy majors. It is funny to see how many fashion themselves as logical, or rational, when they too could be torn apart just as easily. We all know how tribalism works though, and if you hold a view that differs from those you are encountering, and they out number you, then no matter how well your thoughts are expressed, what evidence you present, or ironclad your argument is, you will be overpowered. Strength is in numbers. The techno twits will get their way, because there is money to made from the never ending exploitation of everything on this planet, including man himself. What these people seem to be oblivious to is the way technology enters society, and who controls it. They like to believe that the "free market" will make these technologies available to them, and that they will be affordable, but just like most arguments on this board, it is purely wishful thinking on their part.
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#71 Kolos

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Posted 24 August 2010 - 07:36 PM

All I see in this thread is some leftist semi-religious propaganda what is actually destroyed? Why is it so wrong? Why should I prefer some animals or plants that don't even have self-consciousness and would die anyway because that's how evolution/nature works over well being of other humans or even my own life sorry but it makes no fucking sense. If someone believes that human interventions in natural environment of any kind are somehow evil, so in other humanity is evil I would seriously advice him to just kill himself for the greater good of this holy ecosystems he loves so much.
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#72 CuringTheSane

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Posted 25 August 2010 - 12:26 AM

All I see in this thread is some leftist semi-religious propaganda what is actually destroyed? Why is it so wrong?


Do you think that the intentional murder of any sentient life is justifiable? If you do, then are there any cases in which you think it isn't? We are born into a culture which applauds murder and destruction, so I don't fault you if you have no qualms about it , but remember that this is precisely what is supposed to separate man from beast. If we behave no differently than any other prey animal, how can we seriously consider ourselves of a higher order? To place man as above everything else on this planet, and to try to make the argument that we therefore have the right to use any and everything on this planet to our own benefit, and without restraint, this then becomes a religious argument.

Genesis 1:26 "Then God said, "Let us make man in our image, after our likeness. And let them have dominion over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the heavens and over the livestock and over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth."

Why should I prefer some animals or plants that don't even have self-consciousness and would die anyway because that's how evolution/nature works over well being of other humans or even my own life sorry but it makes no fucking sense.


Modern science has essentially no clue what consciousness is, or what constitutes intelligence, so if this is what's going to be used as the justification for man's superiority, then I assume that if a higher intelligence in the universe was to exist it would be perfectly ok for them to exterminate us without a second thought. No, I doubt anyone would agree with that, but it is exactly the same rationale that I have seen spewed out in this thread.

If someone believes that human interventions in natural environment of any kind are somehow evil, so in other humanity is evil I would seriously advice him to just kill himself for the greater good of this holy ecosystems he loves so much.


Nobody said this.

Edited by CuringTheSane, 25 August 2010 - 12:27 AM.

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#73 Kolos

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Posted 25 August 2010 - 01:24 AM

Do you think that the intentional murder of any sentient life is justifiable? If you do, then are there any cases in which you think it isn't? We are born into a culture which applauds murder and destruction, so I don't fault you if you have no qualms about it , but remember that this is precisely what is supposed to separate man from beast. If we behave no differently than any other prey animal, how can we seriously consider ourselves of a higher order?

Killing other beings is natural don't you love nature?
Anyway I didn't use the word "higher" I just don't see any reason for us to care about beings that are not self awere or even objects like our planet.

To place man as above everything else on this planet, and to try to make the argument that we therefore have the right to use any and everything on this planet to our own benefit, and without restraint, this then becomes a religious argument.
Genesis 1:26 "Then God said, "Let us make man in our image, after our likeness. And let them have dominion over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the heavens and over the livestock and over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth."

Although I'm not religious I think Judaism and Christianity have quite rational approach to this issue you on the other hand sound like some animist. It would be nice if you explained why we shouldn't put human life and interests above everything else, why shouldn't we use everything on this planet if we want to? Because our Goddes Gaia will be angry... Oh but you don't believe in Gods right?

Modern science has essentially no clue what consciousness is, or what constitutes intelligence, so if this is what's going to be used as the justification for man's superiority, then I assume that if a higher intelligence in the universe was to exist it would be perfectly ok for them to exterminate us without a second thought. No, I doubt anyone would agree with that, but it is exactly the same rationale that I have seen spewed out in this thread.

We know what it is we just don't necessarily know how it works. I don't think it would be ok to kill other self-concious beings much like we eat pigs but not some primitive Africans but we don't really know how this alien civilisation would think, from our perspective it would be certainly wrong, at least
for those of us who don't hate being human.

Nobody said this.


Well sushi kinda did if you analise what he said.
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#74 sushil_yadav

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Posted 31 August 2010 - 09:46 AM

sushil_yadav, you have a point, but don't expect any sympathy or agreement from the people here. They believe technology will fix everything, and that although there may be problems with industrial society, they see all of these problems as capable of being controlled or eliminated through the development of technology. Arguments can be made from both perspectives, however since I have been on these forums I have not seen one solid argument made by anyone in any thread, or post. This is the internet after all, and the same can be said of most other forums, or chatrooms, where people generally talk casually, or in a manner not fit for clinical dissection by philosophy majors. It is funny to see how many fashion themselves as logical, or rational, when they too could be torn apart just as easily. We all know how tribalism works though, and if you hold a view that differs from those you are encountering, and they out number you, then no matter how well your thoughts are expressed, what evidence you present, or ironclad your argument is, you will be overpowered. Strength is in numbers. The techno twits will get their way, because there is money to made from the never ending exploitation of everything on this planet, including man himself. What these people seem to be oblivious to is the way technology enters society, and who controls it. They like to believe that the "free market" will make these technologies available to them, and that they will be affordable, but just like most arguments on this board, it is purely wishful thinking on their part.




CuringTheSane,

Thanks for your post.

The present society is the most destructive, most cruel, most insane society that has ever existed on earth.

Industrialization is an anomaly, Industrial Society is an anomaly. Human societies have existed on earth for hundreds of thousands of years. Industrial Society has existed for only about 250 years - and the so-called modern society has existed for an even shorter duration - about 50 years. This comes to almost zero percent of total human existence on earth.

Techno-worshippers keep proposing the same solution for all problems : bring this technology, bring that technology - bring this technology, bring that technology.

People think they can continue destroying the ecosystems, decimating all other species and yet the solutions will keep coming.

It is not easy to find a solution if billions of people have travelled on the wrong path for 250 years.

It is not easy to find a solution once you have created a mess. Look at all the grand solutions being made by "Coalition of the Willing" in Iraq and Afghanistan - Desperately searching for the exit door.


"only after the last tree has been cut down

only after the last river has been poisoned

only after the last fish has been caught

only then will you realize that you cannot eat money"



sushil_yadav
Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment

Edited by sushil_yadav, 31 August 2010 - 09:55 AM.


#75 chris w

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Posted 31 August 2010 - 09:44 PM

Industrialization is an anomaly, Industrial Society is an anomaly. Human societies have existed on earth for hundreds of thousands of years. Industrial Society has existed for only about 250 years - and the so-called modern society has existed for an even shorter duration - about 50 years. This comes to almost zero percent of total human existence on earth.

Techno-worshippers keep proposing the same solution for all problems : bring this technology, bring that technology - bring this technology, bring that technology.

People think they can continue destroying the ecosystems, decimating all other species and yet the solutions will keep coming.

It is not easy to find a solution if billions of people have travelled on the wrong path for 250 years.


I know you mean well, but I think you are betting the wrong horse. Sufficiently advanced civilzation is the one tool that can in fact save the lovely Mother Nature in the long run on this rock. What if someday in the following eons there was an asteroid on its way to wipe out everything here ? This is how Nature works, mindlessly bringing on equal chance life and destruction on its creatures, if you said A you have to say B.
Also don't romanticize the days when mankind was young, for example the very first Indians ( like Clovis Culture ) exterminated enormous quantities of game ( there were once camels in America, so were horses and mastodons ), it is thought by some scholars that this is what made them develop the whole later animist ideology of sustainable hunting in an act of a self - preservational wisdom. Eventually man will become a sheperd in place of a conquistador, but exactly by those means that you oppose.


It is not easy to find a solution once you have created a mess. Look at all the grand solutions being made by "Coalition of the Willing" in Iraq and Afghanistan - Desperately searching for the exit door.


What does that issue have to do with anything ?

#76 CuringTheSane

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Posted 31 August 2010 - 10:18 PM

There are certain technologies that are required, and the asteroid example, however absurd it may be, is a good one. What I believe is wrongly being conflated here are the terms "technology" and "industrialization." I would say that really the true problem is capitalism. Why is that? Precisely because it's built on a foundation of unsustainability i.e. exponential growth. For capitalism to work in the modern world the gdp has to always grow. It doesn't matter what's being destroyed in the process to make the profit, just so long as the profit is made, and in fact, in many cases it has held back technological advancement. The 21st century will be interesting, because not only will the world have to completely rethink how it's systems run, the people are going to have to be able to adapt to them. With the west on the brink of a complete financial collapse, my hopes of a positive outcome are slim.

Edited by CuringTheSane, 31 August 2010 - 10:20 PM.


#77 sushil_yadav

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Posted 24 February 2012 - 12:01 PM

Food, Clothing & Shelter......these are the maximum number of things this planet can provide to humans....... Industrial consumer goods must be eliminated immediately.

Industrial Society is doing research on sustainability after destroying 75 - 90% of Biodiversity and Ecosystems. Nature has already done millions of years of research on sustainability.......Nature has already given us millions of years of proof of sustainability. Animals did not destroy Environment for millions of years because their activity was limited to searching for food. Hunter Gatherer Society did not destroy Environment for a million years because their activity was limited to searching for food. Agrarian Society caused very limited destruction of environment over 10,000 years [compared to Industrial Society]because their activity was limited to food, clothing and shelter.



For the last 50 years Intellectuals have been debating what is good for Environment......Capitalist Industrial Society, Communist Industrial Society or Socialist Industrial Society?

This is like debating what is good for people.....Capitalist Poison, Communist Poison or Socialist Poison.

Poison kills people.....it does'nt matter who made it ......Capitalism, Communism or Socialism.

Industrial Activity kills ecosystems.....It does'nt matter which system runs it.....Capitalism, Communism or Socialism.

All Industrial Activity destroys environment......Mining Industry, Logging Industry, Energy Generation Industry, Manufacturing Industry, Transportation Industry, Construction Industry, Recycling Industry, Oil Drilling, Oil Refining, Millions of kilometers of Rail & Road network and Shipping Lanes…..they all destroy environment….. It does'nt matter which system runs it.....Capitalism, Communism or Socialism.

American Industrial Activity has destroyed ecosystems…..Russian Industrial Activity has destroyed ecosystems……Chinese Industrial Activity has destroyed ecosystems…….Indian Industrial Activity has destroyed ecosystems……Every Industrial Society destroys ecosystems…… It does'nt matter which system runs it.....Capitalism, Communism or Socialism.

In just 250 years Industrial Society has destroyed 75 - 90% of Forests, Wild Animals and Fish Population......Population of Lions, Tigers and Elephants is down to 2 - 5% of what it was 100 years ago......Population of Large Fish in Oceans is down to 10% of what it was 100 years ago.....Industrial Society has poisoned the entire planet with Trillions of Tonnes of Metal Waste, Plastic Waste, Chemical Waste, Gaseous Waste, eWaste, Nuclear Waste.....It has killed Trillions of Animals in Industrial Slaughter Houses and billions of acres of Fertile Soil with Cement And Concrete.

Animals did not destroy Environment for millions of years.......because their activity was limited to searching for food.

Hunter Gatherer Society did not destroy Environment for a million years.......because their activity was limited to searching for food.

Agrarian Society caused very limited destruction of environment over 10,000 years[compared to Industrial Society].......because their activity was limited to food, clothing and shelter.

Industrial Society has destroyed almost all Ecosystems in just 250 years......because it is destroying environment for thousands of consumer goods and services in addition to food, clothing and shelter.

Industrial Activity for production of Consumer Goods must stop immediately.......Human work must be limited to Food, Clothing and Shelter......And even in these three fields production and consumption must be kept to the minimum.



There is only one cause of environmental destruction......Industrialization.

Overpopulation and Overconsumerism are only consequences/ by-products of Industrialization.

Overconsumerism is quite obviously a consequence of Industrialization..... Industrial consumer goods and services would not exist without Industrial Activity.

Overpopulation is also a by-product of Industrialization. The entire world was overbreeding until the middle years of 20th century.....even Western Countries had 5 - 12 children per family[and even more].....and yet population of the world remained low before industrialization because of high death rate, lower life span and shortage of food and water. It was only 1 billion in 1800 AD. India and China have large populations today because they started with larger populations thousands of years ago, since ancient civilizations thrived in these regions. What was the population of Europe/ America/ West 2000 years ago????......Was it comparable to eastern population of India and China????

Industrialization is the cause of overpopulation and overconsumerism.

Moreover, Environment has been destroyed by Industrialization/ Consumerism…….Not by Population/ Overpopulation.

Total World Population has not increased ……It has decreased……In fact total world population has been decimated.

When we talk of population we should take into account population of all animal species, not just human population.

Industrial Society has decimated millions of Animal Species……Increase in human population has coincided with decrease/ decimation of millions of animal species. The total burden of population on this planet has not increased…..It has decreased.

Industrial Society has decimated millions of other species.....but there was a time when the combined population of other animal species was much greater than present human population.....and we don't even need to include smaller animals in this count.....the combined population of big animals alone whose size and weight was equivalent to or greater than man was much greater than current human population of 7 billion.

The amount of food this animal population was eating was much greater than the food consumed by humans today.......Yet millions of animal species did not destroy environment and lived sustainably on earth for millions of years......because they destroyed environment only for food and not for thousands of consumer goods and services.

If animals had started a consumerist "Industrial Society" millions of years ago they would have destroyed all ecosystems millions of years ago.

The entire world has been trying to control human population for 50 years and these efforts should / will continue in future.....so where is the problem with population?????

What is the cause of human overpopulation??????......It is Industrialization......World population increased from 1 billion in 1800 to 7 billion today ........In the absence of Industrialization world population would only be a small fraction of 7 billion today.

It is not population that destroys environment......It is lifestyle.......The combined population of millions of animal species was much greater than present human population.......and yet they did not destroy environment for millions of years because they destroyed environment only for Food.......not for Thousands of Consumer Goods.

The cause of Environmental Destruction is Industrialization / Consumerism.........Not population / overpopulation.

A Hunter_Gatherer Society of 7 billion would not destroy environment [And a Hunter_Gatherer Society would never reach a population of 7 billion]

An Agrarian Society of 7 billion would cause much lesser environmental destruction than an Industrial Society of 7 billion [And an Agrarian Society would never reach a population of 7 billion]

Industrialization is the cause of Human Overpopulation and Overconsumerism

It is so ridiculous of Industrial Society to complain about overpopulation when it itself is the cause of overpopulation......It is so ridiculous of Industrial Society to make attempts to control population while promoting Consumerism, Growth Rate, Economy Rate and GDP exponentially.

Height of Insanity!

Industrial Activity for production of Consumer Goods must stop immediately.......Human work must be limited to Food, Clothing and Shelter.


sushil_yadav
Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment

#78 TheKidInside

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Posted 24 February 2012 - 11:50 PM

I need to take some massive amounts of bacopa, CDP-Choline and cocaine to read the rest of this thread but the first few posts were great! keep up this awesome discussion!
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#79 sushil_yadav

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Posted 25 February 2012 - 02:37 AM

I need to take some massive amounts of bacopa, CDP-Choline and cocaine to read the rest of this thread but the first few posts were great! keep up this awesome discussion!


Thanks for your views. I want to request people to read the article slowly and in parts if possible. Some people complain that my posts are too long.....but the reality is I write very little. I have written only one article in my entire life - "Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment".....which contains only about 30 pages......so I have only written 30 pages in whole life.



sushil_yadav
Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment

Edited by sushil_yadav, 25 February 2012 - 02:38 AM.


#80 TheKidInside

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Posted 27 February 2012 - 09:34 PM

haha no that's awesome. any time you are passionate about something it's better to be as clear and extensive as possible :)

#81 sushil_yadav

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Posted 05 May 2012 - 02:28 AM

Industrial Society is a lunatic society that is trying to save environment not by stopping Industrial Activity but by changing the technology.

Bring this technology, Bring that technology..........Bring this technology, Bring that technology.

A man is shooting someone with a gun........Some people are trying to save the victim.......They plead with the man asking him to save the victim by stopping the shooting.

The man says.....Don't worry......I will save him by changing technology......He replaces the old gun with a new one ........And continues to shoot.

.
.

Environment has been destroyed by Industrial Activity........Trying to save environment without stopping Industrial Activity is like ......

Trying to save a victim of shooting by shooting him even more.

Trying to save a victim of stabbing by stabbing him even more.

Trying to save a victim of poisoning by giving him even more poison.

Height of Insanity, Abnormality and Criminality.......You cannot save environment by destroying more of it.

Industrial Society has been destroying Extra environment for 250 years........It has been destroying environment for "thousands of consumer goods and services" in addition to food, clothing and shelter.

You cannot save a person after killing him.......You cannot save environment after it has been killed by Industrial Activity.

The entire Industrial Society deserves the Nobel Prize for Lunacy for pretending that environment is getting saved when the reality is that Industrial Society has been destroying extra environment after industrialization and has destroyed so much extra environment in 250 years that there is hardly any environment left to save.

.
.

Discussion cannot save environment........Money cannot save environment......Technology cannot save environment......Environmental Organizations cannot save environment.......Activism cannot save environment.

Animal Species and Hunter_Gatherer Society did not save environment through discussion......They did not even have a language for discussing environmental issues.

Animal species and Hunter_Gatherer Society did not save environment with money ........They had no money.

Animal species, Hunter_Gatherer Society and Agrarian Society did not save environment with modern technology........They had no modern technology......It was absence of modern technology that saved environment in pre-industrial societies........Over-exploitation of ecosystems became possible only because of Industrial Machines.

Animal species, Hunter_Gatherer Society and Agrarian Society did not save environment with the help of Environmental Organizations or Activism........They had no environmental organizations.

Animal Species did not destroy environment for millions of years.......Hunter Gatherer Society destroyed very little environment during a million years of existence......Agrarian Society destroyed very little environment [compared to Industrial Society] over a period of 10,000 years.

There is only one way to save environment.......Destroy less......Minimize the list of things that are destroying environment.

.
.

Promoters of Growth rate, Economy Rate and GDP are the biggest terrorists on earth.......Millions of times bigger terrorists than Taliban and Al Qaeda.

Our society has placed a bounty of millions of dollars on the heads of Taliban and Al Qaeda

No bounty on the heads of people who promoted Industrialization, Consumerism, Growth Rate, Economy Rate and GDP that has led to destruction of most of the Biodiversity and Ecosystems on earth???

It was not Taliban or Al Qaeda that produced Trillions of tonnes of Metal Waste, Plastic Waste, Chemical Waste, Gaseous Waste, eWaste and Nuclear Waste that has contaminated and poisoned the entire planet......It was Industrial Society.

It was not Taliban or Al Qaeda that decimated millions of animal and plant species......It was Industrial Society.

It was not Taliban or Al Qaeda that killed billions of acres of fertile soil with cement, concrete and asphalt......It was Industrial Society.

It was not Taliban or Al Qaeda that decimated fish in the oceans......It was Industrial Fishing.

It was not Taliban or Al Qaeda that killed millions of people in wars.......It was Military Industrial Complex.

Industrialization was the biggest crime on earth.

For millions of years before industrialization the list of things that destroyed environment never exceeded food, clothing and shelter.......Animals destroyed environment for food......Hunter_Gatherer Society destroyed environment for food......Agrarian Society destroyed environment for food, clothing and shelter.

Development is Destruction........Development is Destruction.

"Growth Rate" - "Economy Rate" - "GDP"
These are figures of "Ecocide".
These are figures of "Crimes against Nature".
These are figures of "Destruction of Ecosystems".
These are figures of "Insanity, Abnormality and Criminality".

Promoters of Growth Rate, Economy Rate & GDP are the biggest Killers, Murderers & Terrorists on earth.

.
.

Environment has been destroyed by Cities.......Environment has been destroyed by Urban Dwellers.........City People are doing extra work which has led to exponential "extra destruction of environment".......... Urban Dwellers are the destroyers of Forests, Villages, Tribal Land, Rivers, Oceans and Atmosphere.

For millions of years "searching for food" / “producing food” were the primary activities of animal species, hunter_gatherer society and agrarian society.........and that is why they sustained for millions of years because they destroyed very little environment compared to Industrial Society.......For millions of years the list of things that destroyed environment never exceeded food, clothing and shelter.

In Industrial Society 50% of world population is growing food for 100% of population and the remaining 50% living in cities is primarily engaged in production and marketing of "thousands of consumer goods and services".

It is impossible to save environment as long as Urban Population exists in this world.

It is impossible to save environment as long as Urban Population is engaged in production and marketing of consumer goods and services.

It is impossible to save environment as long as Urban Population is promoting Industrial Activity.

Industrial Activity is directly proportional to percentage of Urban Population.

Consumerism is directly proportional to percentage of Urban Population.

Destruction of environment is directly proportional to percentage of Urban Population.

Most of the people who do not produce food are engaged in production and marketing of consumer goods and services.

Most of the urban population is engaged in production and marketing of consumer goods and services.

In America 90 - 95% of population is urban......In Europe 80 – 90% of population is urban......this is why consumerism is so rampant in US and West.

World wide the percentage of urban population is about 50%.......If the entire world is made communist or socialist it is not going to stop/ reduce consumerism as long as the percentage of urban population remains the same.

As long as Urban Population exists all Industrial Activities will continue to exist and expand........ Energy Generation Industry, Mining Industry, Logging Industry, Manufacturing Industry, Construction Industry, Oil Drilling Industry, Oil Refining Industry, Transportation Industry, Millions of kilometers of Rail and Road Network, Millions of kilometers of Air Routes and Shipping Lanes.....all these Industrial Activities will continue to exist and expand.

This planet cannot sustain a society that does not produce its own food.

This planet cannot sustain Urban population.

Environment has been destroyed primarily by Urban Population......Environment has been destroyed primarily by population that does not produce food.

This planet can only sustain a society in which [almost] the entire population is engaged in producing food.

One profession means destruction of environment for one thing.......Thousands of professions means destruction of environment for thousands of things.

Animals did not destroy Environment for millions of years.......because their activity was limited to searching for food.

Hunter Gatherer Society did not destroy Environment for a million years.......because their activity was limited to searching for food.

Agrarian Society caused very limited destruction of environment over 10,000 years [compared to Industrial Society].......because their activity was limited to food, clothing and shelter.

Industrial Society has destroyed most of the Biodiversity and Ecosystems in just 250 years......because it has destroyed environment for "thousands of consumer goods and services in addition to food, clothing and shelter".

The list of unnecessary and destructive work in Industrial Society includes......Manufacturing and Marketing of thousands of "Consumer Goods" and Services, Tourism Industry, Entertainment Industry, Sports Industry, Military Industrial Complex, All kinds of unnecessary Research .....and lots of other work.

Out of the population that does not produce Food, the maximum number of people - a few billion people are engaged in Production and Marketing of "Consumer Goods" and Services. Industrial Activity for production of "consumer goods" and services is the biggest destroyer of environment.

Millions of people are working in Sports Industry......Environment is destroyed to manufacture millions of tonnes of Sports Equipment......Millions of Trees have been cut down and billions of acres of fertile soil has been killed with Cement & Concrete to build millions of Stadiums.

Millions of people are working in Tourism Industry......Tourism is all about Travelling which promotes Transportation Industry that destroys Environment......Millions of kilometers of Road and Rail network cutting through Forests destroying Trees and Wildlife.....Millions of kilometers of Shipping Lanes torturing and killing Fish.....Millions of kilometers of Air Routes killing the Air with millions of tonnes of exhaust gases.

Millions of people are working in Entertainment Industry........Environment has been destroyed to construct millions of Buildings that are used for entertainment and to produce millions of tonnes of Electronic Equipment that provides entertainment.

Millions of people are working for "Military Industrial Complex" producing and selling billions of tonnes of weapons all over the world...... Environment is destroyed when weapons are produced and when they are used.

Millions of City People are engaged in other unnecessary work that destroys even more environment.

Food, clothing and shelter......these are the maximum number of things this planet can provide to humans.

A pure non-industrial society is not possible now because Industrialization has increased world population to 7 billion.......World population increased from 1 billion in 1800 to 7 billion in just about 200 years after industrialization.......In the absence of industrialization world population would have been only a small fraction of 7 billion today.

If we want to save the remaining environment we must minimize the things that are destroying environment.

At present we are destroying environment for Food, Clothing, Shelter plus Thousands of Industrial consumer goods and services.

We must eliminate the things that were added last to the list......which means Thousands of consumer goods and services, most of which have existed for only about 100 years out of Hundreds of Thousands of years of Total Human Existence on earth .........these have to be eliminated or minimized.

We are approaching Environmental Apocalypse.......The only way to save the remaining environment is by stopping Industrial Activity for production of consumer goods and services immediately........Industrial Activity must be limited to food, clothing and shelter.......and even in these three fields production and consumption must be kept to the minimum.


Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment
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#82 DAMABO

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Posted 12 May 2012 - 07:59 PM

So what is the suggestion? to start living like cavemen again? nice plan, it will make us even more susceptible to dying out, as we won't be able to wear off natural disasters.

#83 sushil_yadav

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Posted 16 May 2012 - 08:50 AM

So what is the suggestion? to start living like cavemen again? nice plan.....


I never made this suggestion.........These are your words not mine.

This is what I wrote in my post :

Food, clothing and shelter......these are the maximum number of things this planet can provide to humans.........For millions of years the list of things that destroyed environment never exceeded food, clothing and shelter.

A pure non-industrial society is not possible now because Industrialization has increased world population to 7 billion.......World population increased from 1 billion in 1800 to 7 billion in just about 200 years after industrialization.......In the absence of industrialization world population would have been only a small fraction of 7 billion today.

If we want to save the remaining environment we must minimize the things that are destroying environment.

At present we are destroying environment for Food, Clothing, Shelter plus Thousands of Industrial consumer goods and services.

We must eliminate the things that were added last to the list......which means Thousands of consumer goods and services, most of which have existed for only about 100 years out of Hundreds of Thousands of years of Total Human Existence on earth .........these have to be eliminated or minimized.

We are approaching Environmental Apocalypse.......The only way to save the remaining environment is by stopping Industrial Activity for production of consumer goods and services immediately........Industrial Activity must be limited to food, clothing and shelter.......and even in these three fields production and consumption must be kept to the minimum.


Edited by sushil_yadav, 16 May 2012 - 08:51 AM.


#84 DAMABO

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Posted 16 May 2012 - 11:58 AM

So what is the suggestion? to start living like cavemen again? nice plan.....


I never made this suggestion.........These are your words not mine.

This is what I wrote in my post :

Food, clothing and shelter......these are the maximum number of things this planet can provide to humans.........For millions of years the list of things that destroyed environment never exceeded food, clothing and shelter.


We are approaching Environmental Apocalypse.......The only way to save the remaining environment is by stopping Industrial Activity for production of consumer goods and services immediately........Industrial Activity must be limited to food, clothing and shelter.......and even in these three fields production and consumption must be kept to the minimum.


Food clothing and shelter... that's pretty much the caveman lifestyle. this would drastically reduce the probability of our survival, since we won't have computers, calculators, transport, communication,... so basically a world of science would be impossible.

#85 sushil_yadav

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Posted 21 September 2012 - 08:28 AM

...............................................................................................
Story of Pseudo Environmentalism in Industrial Society.
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A Serial Killer with endless supply of ammunition goes on the rampage in the city.....The Police are informed.....They arrive on the scene.....They do not try to stop or capture the shooter.....They do not try to kill or incapacitate the shooter.....They allow him to continue shooting......They give him full liberty to move around all over the city.

The Police focus on the victims of shooting.....They take them to Hospitals and try to save them with the help of best Technology / Health Care.....The Government sets up thousands of Organizations to do research on how the Whites can be saved, How the Blacks can be saved, How the Asians can be saved, How the Young can be saved, How the Elderly can be saved.....The Government gives Billions of Dollars of Grant to "Think Tanks" and NGO's to find out how the victims can be saved.....People of the city engage in Billions of pages of Discussion, Debate and Argument to find a solution to the problem.

This is not the story of the Mass Shooter.....This is the story of Environmentalism in Industrial Society.

Environment is being destroyed by Industrial Activity........Environmental Activists and Organizations are trying to save environment without stopping Industrial Activity

One group is trying to save Forests......The second group is trying to save Rivers......The third group is trying to save Oceans......The fourth group is trying to make the Air clean......The fifth group is trying to save Tigers and Elephants......The sixth group is trying to save Whales and Dolphins.

Industrial Technology has destroyed environment........Industrial Society is trying to save environment by changing the Technology.

Bring this Technology, Bring that Technology........Bring this Technology, Bring that Technology.

Height of Insanity and Abnormality......This is like trying to save a victim of shooting not by stopping the shooting but by changing the gun.

People who are trying to save environment in Industrial Society without stopping all Industrial Activity deserve the Nobel Prize for Lunacy.

Why don't people realize the futility and absurdity of their efforts......It is impossible to save animals, trees, air, water and land without stopping all Industrial Activity.

What is the point in saving a few Dogs, Cats, Whales, Tigers and Elephants when Industrial Society is killing billions of animals in Industrial Slaughter Houses and billions of Wild Animals in Forests by destroying Forests with Industrial Activities like Mining Industry, Logging Industry, Construction Industry, Energy Generation Industry, Manufacturing Industry, millions of kilometers of Rail and Road Networks and ever expanding Towns and Cities.......Industrial Society is also killing billions of fish in the oceans with Industrial Fishing and through discharge of billions of tonnes of Industrial Waste into oceans which has made them poisonous, acidic, warmer and created oxygen-deprived dead zones in the oceans.

It is impossible to save Air, water and Land without stopping all Industrial Activity because Industrial Activity is killing them with trillions of tonnes of Metal waste, Plastic waste, Gaseous waste, Chemical waste, eWaste and Nuclear Waste.......Industrial Activity produces trillions of tonnes of Solid, Liquid and Gaseous Waste and there are only three places on earth where all this waste can go....Air, water and Soil.....There is no fourth place on earth where this waste can go...... It is impossible for Rivers, Oceans, Atmosphere and Soil to be clean in Industrial Society.

This planet can only sustain a Hunter_Gatherer Society or an Agrarian Society......Not an Industrial Society.

All Environmentalism is Pseudo-Environmentalism in Industrial Society.......It is impossible to save environment in an Industrial Society.

People who pretend they are saving environment in Industrial Society are even more insane, abnormal and criminal than people who are destroying the environment.

It is impossible to save environment in Industrial Society because Industrialization itself is the cause of environmental destruction.........In a non-industrial society environmentalism was not even needed.......In the absence of Industrial Activity environment got saved automatically because only limited destruction of environment was possible without Industrial Machines.
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Environment has been destroyed by Industrial Activity........Trying to save environment without stopping Industrial Activity is like ..

Trying to save a victim of shooting by shooting him even more.

Trying to save a victim of stabbing by stabbing him even more.

Trying to save a victim of poisoning by giving him even more poison.

Height of Insanity, Abnormality and Criminality.......You cannot save environment by destroying more of it.

Industrial Society has been destroying Extra environment for 250 years........It has been destroying environment for "thousands of consumer goods and services" in addition to food, clothing and shelter.

You cannot save a person after killing him.......You cannot save environment after it has been killed by Industrial Activity.

The entire Industrial Society deserves the Nobel Prize for Lunacy for pretending that environment is getting saved when the reality is that Industrial Society has been destroying extra environment after industrialization and has destroyed so much extra environment in 250 years that there is hardly any environment left to save.

What is the Result of 50 years of Environmentalism/ Pseudo Environmentalism in Industrial Society???

Industrial Society has been killing millions of times more Animals, Trees, Air, Water and Land than Pre-Industrial Society every day for several decades.

Industrial Society has been killing millions of acres of Forests with Industrial Activity every day for several decades.

Industrial Society has been killing Billions of Animals in Industrial Slaughter Houses every day for several decades.

Industrial Society has been killing millions of Wild Animals by destroying the Forests where they live with Industrial Activity every day for several decades.

Industrial Society has been killing Air, Water and Soil with billions of tonnes of Solid, Liquid and Gaseous Industrial Waste every day for several decades.....Industrial Society has been killing Rivers, Oceans, Air/ Atmosphere and Soil/ Land with Billions of Tonnes of Metal Waste, Plastic waste, Gaseous waste, Chemical Waste, eWaste and Nuclear Waste every day for several decades.

Industrial Society has been killing Millions of Acres of Fertile Soil with Cement, Concrete and Asphalt every day for several decades.

All this Killing / Destruction was absent in Pre-Industrial Society without any Environmentalism.
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All Environmentalism in Industrial Society is Pseudo Environmentalism.

No environment is getting saved in Industrial Society.....Not an iota of environment is getting saved.

How can environment ever be saved in Industrial Society when Industrial Activity itself is the cause of environmental destruction....Environment can only be saved in a Non-Industrial Society.

Industrial Society has created hundreds of unnecessary / futile occupations to solve the problems created by Industrialization.....Environmental Activism is one of them.....If thousands of organizations and millions of activists are trying to save environment in Industrial Society it does not mean that environment is getting saved…..There have been three human societies on earth .....Hunter_Gatherer, Agrarian and Industrial.....In Hunter_Gatherer Society there was no Urban Population, entire population was engaged in searching for food.....In Agrarian Society less than 2% of population was Urban, Most of the population was engaged in producing food.....In Industrial Society 50% of world population is producing food for entire population , the remaining 50% population is Urban which has created hundreds of unnecessary occupations to keep itself occupied..... People would go crazy without work…. Environmentalism / Environmental Activism is one such profession [occupation]......[Other unnecessary and destructive professions in Industrial Society include Manufacturing and Marketing of thousands of consumer goods and services, Jobs in Tourism Industry, Entertainment Industry, Sports Industry, Military Industrial Complex and several other jobs]....No Environmentalism was needed in Hunter_Gatherer and Agrarian Societies because in the absence of Industrial Activity only limited destruction of environment was possible, so environment got saved automatically.

If billions of pages of environmental discussion is taking place in Industrial Society it does not mean that environment is getting saved......Endless Discussion, Debate and Argument is a Disease and Insanity of Industrial Society that invented the Printing Press, Radio, Television and Internet.....Animal Species and Hunter_Gatherer Society did not save environment through discussion.....They didn't even have a language for discussion…..Billions of pages of Discussion, Debate and Argument is another harmful waste of Industrial Society just like Billions of Tonnes of Metal Waste, Plastic Waste, Chemical waste, Gaseous Waste, eWaste and Nuclear Waste.

All Environmentalism in Industrial Society is Pseudo Environmentalism.

No environment is getting saved in Industrial Society.....Not an iota of environment is getting saved.
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If Urban Society stops all its supplies to Villages......Electricity, Oil, Machinery and Equipment, Villagers will survive forever.

If Villages stop all their supplies to Cities......Food Grains and Vegetables, Urban Population will die within a month.

[ Villagers need Electricity, Oil, Machinery and Equipment to produce food for the Urban Population , They would not need these things to produce food for themselves]

Urban Population is engaged in Unnecessary Work, Meaningless Work, Futile Work and Destructive Work which has led to destruction of most of the Biodiversity and Ecosystems on earth.

For millions of years "Searching For Food" / "Producing Food" were the primary occupations of almost the entire human population in Hunter_Gatherer and Agrarian Society.

There is Zero chance of saving the little environment that is left without fixing the problem of "Urban Population".
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Animal Species had Zero Percent Urban Population.......Hunter_Gatherer Society had Zero Percent Urban Population.......Agrarian Society had less than Two Percent Urban Population.......All these societies sustained for millions of years collectively.

The current Industrial Society which has 50% Urban Population worldwide has destroyed most of the Biodiversity and Ecosystems in just 250 years after Industrial Revolution.......Industrial Activity has been promoted by Urban Population......Industrial Activity has been promoted by people who do not produce food.

This planet can sustain Animal Species.....It can sustain Hunter_Gatherer Human Society......It can sustain Agrarian Human Society......It cannot sustain Industrial Human Society.

This planet can only sustain food producing societies where almost the entire population is engaged in food production......It cannot sustain an Industrial Society where 50% of world population is growing food for entire population and the remaining 50% living in cities is promoting Industrial Activity.

Animals saved environment for millions of years because they destroyed it only for food.....Hunter_Gatherer Society saved environment because it destroyed environment only for food.....Agrarian Society saved environment because it destroyed environment only for food, clothing and shelter.

Industrial Society has destroyed most of the Biodiversity and Ecosystems because it destroyed environment for "Thousands of consumer goods and services" in addition to food, clothing and shelter.

In the Animal Kingdom, Hunter_Gatherer Society and Agrarian Society almost the entire population was engaged in "Searching for Food" / "Growing Food".

It is the Urban Population that is engaged in and promoting Industrial Activity ......Mining Industry, Logging Industry, Energy Generation Industry, Manufacturing Industry, Transportation Industry, Construction Industry, Recycling Industry, Oil Drilling, Oil Refining, Millions of kilometers of Rail & Road network, Air Routes and Shipping Lanes…..They all destroy environment......All Industrial Activity must be stopped.

Food, clothing and shelter......These are the maximum number of things this planet can provide to humans......The only way to save the remaining environment is by reorganizing the entire population so that food production remains the only primary activity just like it was for millions of years before Industrialization.
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This planet cannot sustain an Industrial / Urban Society......The problem is not Capitalism, The problem is Industrialization / Urbanization.......The solution is not Communism or Socialism, The solution is Non-Industrial / Non-Urban Society.

Capitalism, Communism or Socialism does not matter at all........What matters is percentage of Urban Population......A Socialist Industrial Society with 80% Urban Population will be as Harmful, Destructive and Evil as a Capitalist Industrial Society with 80% Urban Population...... A Communist Industrial Society with 80% Urban Population will be as Harmful, Destructive and Evil as a Capitalist Industrial Society with 80% Urban Population.

Urban Population is responsible for consumerism.......Urban Population does not produce Food.....It produces thousands of Consumer Goods and Services.

Consumerism is directly proportional to Percentage of Urban Population.

Saving environment in Industrial Society is an impossibility......No Industrial Society can save environment.......Communist or Socialist Industrial Societies cannot be less destructive than Capitalist Industrial Societies.

There cannot be any sustainable Industrial Society........The fault does not lie in Capitalism.....The fault lies in Industrialization.....All Industrial Societies are the same.....All Industrial Societies are equally harmful, destructive and evil.

Destruction of environment is guaranteed in Industrial Society......The debate over Capitalism, Communism and Socialism in the context of Environmental Crisis is meaningless and absurd.

Industrialization , Urbanization and Consumerism go hand in hand......They happen together.

Today 50% of world population is Urban, living in cities...... 50% of world population is producing food for entire population and the remaining 50% population living in Cities is primarily engaged in production and marketing of thousands of consumer goods and services........Urban population is not producing food, it is producing consumer goods and services.......Even if the entire world is made Communist or Socialist it is not going to bring about any change in consumerism because the percentage of Urban Population will remain the same and it will continue producing and marketing thousands of consumer goods and services.

In America 90 - 95% of population is Urban......That is why consumerism is so rampant in the US......Even if America is made Communist or Socialist it is not going to reduce consumerism because the percentage of Urban Population would still remain the same.

In Europe 80 - 90% of population is Urban.

In China and India consumerism has risen exponentially with the increase in percentage of Urban Population.

Capitalism, Communism or Socialism does not matter.......What matters is Industrialization and Urbanization which results in Consumerism.

This planet cannot sustain Industrial Urban Population.......This planet cannot sustain a society that does not produce its own food.

This planet can sustain a Hunter_Gatherer Society or an Agrarian Society where almost the entire population is engaged in "searching for food" / producing food......This planet cannot sustain an Industrial Society where 50% of population is producing food for entire population and the remaining 50% population is producing thousands of consumer goods and services.
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A pure non-industrial society is not possible now because Industrialization has increased world population to 7 billion.......World population increased from 1 billion in 1800 to 7 billion in just about 200 years after industrialization.......In the absence of industrialization world population would have been less than 2 billion today.

If we want to save the remaining environment we must minimize the things that are destroying environment.

At present we are destroying environment for Food, Clothing, Shelter plus Thousands of Industrial consumer goods and services.

We must eliminate the things that were added last to the list......which means Thousands of consumer goods and services, most of which have existed for only about 100 years out of Hundreds of Thousands of years of Total Human Existence on earth .........these have to be eliminated or minimized.

We are approaching Environmental Apocalypse.......The only way to save the remaining environment is by stopping Industrial Activity for production of consumer goods and services immediately........Industrial Activity must be primarily limited to food, clothing and shelter.......and even in these three fields production and consumption must be kept to the minimum.
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Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment

Edited by sushil_yadav, 21 September 2012 - 08:33 AM.

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#86 robomoon

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Posted 06 October 2012 - 10:22 PM

(citing only one sentence from "story of Pseudo Environmentalism...")
... There is Zero chance of saving the little environment that is left without fixing the problem of "Urban Population" ....


There seems to be no easy way to get back into a sustainable non-industrial society. It looks very much as if there are not enough independent researchers in risk analysis doing a good job for sustainable global security without great dependencies on governmental funding. Many independent researchers in risk analysis might bring the opportunity to keep looking if the LHC at the CERN research institute near Geneva has not already triggered the formation of a slowly progressing subnuclear time bomb like a miniature black hole or strangelets http://www.longecity...redible-threat/ that might annihilate planet Earth after an uncertain period of delayed growth. If such formation has already happened there would be no currently known way to change its destructive development. In other words: how can anyone be sure it might not be too late now to save this Planet at all?

Edited by robomoon, 06 October 2012 - 10:24 PM.


#87 corb

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Posted 14 October 2012 - 03:12 PM

Subject : In a fast society slow emotions become extinct.
Subject : A thinking mind cannot feel.
Subject : Scientific/ Industrial/ Financial thinking destroys the planet.
Subject : Environment can never be saved as long as cities exist.


I don't even know where to start with this, your logic is non existent so arguing with you would be about as efficient as hitting my head against a coconut in the hopes I'd break it and get to the insides.

Emotions are a reflex. They are about as fast as you can get in the human psyche.

Feelings are thoughts too.

We wouldn't even know we were destroying the planet if not for the industrial revolution - we've only noticed it recently and only because science has advanced thus far and we're able to measure and compare information rapidly.

The only reason the environment is doing well in Europe and North America is because humans are spread out in centralized populations and not like some unbridled disease.


And as far as your comments on consumerism ... industrialized society consumes much less and much more efficiently than the cultures that came before that. The only exception of the rule would be automobiles, but that is going to change in 50 years whether we like it or not. Oil is not an inexhaustible resource.

It's ironic you would post this thread considering India is among the most polluted countries in the world and yet you're far from industrialized society even now.

Edited by corb, 14 October 2012 - 03:17 PM.


#88 sushil_yadav

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Posted 01 November 2012 - 08:58 AM

There seems to be no easy way to get back into a sustainable non-industrial society........ In other words: how can anyone be sure it might not be too late now to save this Planet at all?


robomoon,

Thanks for your post and views.....you are right, it is indeed too late to save the planet.

A person is being shot 100 times......Some people are supposed to save the victim.....They do nothing till 99 bullets have hit the victim.....When the last bullet is about to be fired they rush to save the victim, who is already dead by then.

Industrial Activity has been destroying Biodiversity and Ecosystems for 250 years.....Industrial Society should not have been started in the first place.....Once it came into existence its harmful impact on environment should have alerted people and they should have tried to stop Industrial Activity in the early stages.....If people had tried to stop Industrial Activity 50 years or even 100 years after it began, environment could have been saved because most of the environmental destruction has taken place in the last 50 - 100 years when the rate of Industrialization and Consumerism rose exponentially.....Trying to save environment after 250 years of Industrial Activity is like trying to revive a dead man.....There is hardly any environment left to save.


Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment

#89 sushil_yadav

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Posted 24 December 2012 - 04:24 PM

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When there was still time to save environment a whole century was wasted in the futile debate over Capitalism, Socialism and Communism.

Trying to save environment after 250 years of relentless Industrial Activity is like trying to revive a dead man.....There is hardly any environment left to save.

Industrial Activity destroys environment.....Where there is Industrial Activity there is environmental destruction.....Capitalism, Communism or Socialism doesn't matter at all.

Monsanto is not going to become less harmful under Communism or Socialism.

Nuclear Power Plants are not going to become less harmful under Communism or Socialism.

Mining Industry is not going to become less harmful under Communism or Socialism.

Logging Industry is not going to become less destructive under Communism or Socialism.

Construction Industry is not going to become less destructive under Communism or Socialism.

Transportation Industry is not going to become less harmful under Communism or Socialism.

Oil Drilling, Oil Refining, Tar Sands and Hydraulic Fracking are not going to become less destructive under Communism or Socialism.
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When a mass shooter kills 20 American kids the world is outraged.

When millions of baby seals are clubbed to death the world is not outraged.

When Industrial Society kills billions of animals in Slaughter Houses the world is not outraged.

When Industrial Society kills billions of wild animals by destroying forests with Industrial Activity the world is not outraged.

When Industrial Society kills Rivers, Lakes, Oceans, Atmosphere and Land with billions of tonnes of Metal Waste, Plastic Waste, Chemical Waste, Gaseous Waste, eWaste and Nuclear Waste the world is not outraged.

When Industrial Society kills billions of acres of fertile soil that provides food to millions of species with Cement, Concrete and Asphalt the world is not outraged.

When Industrial Society kills ecosystems that are home to millions of species it is called Progress, Growth, Development.
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Who is not a killer in Industrial Society?????

Every citizen of Industrial Society is a Serial Killer.....Serial Killer of nature.....Serial Killer of animals, trees, air, water and land.

Industrial Society has killed billions of farm animals in Slaughter Houses and billions of wild animals in forests with Industrial Activity for making consumer goods and services.....If we divide this number by total Industrial population we get per capita killing of animals.

Industrial Society has killed billions of Trees in forests with Industrial Activity for making consumer goods and services.....If we divide this number by total Industrial population we get per capita killing of Trees.

Industrial Activity has produced billions of tonnes of solid, liquid and gaseous Industrial Waste.....This waste has polluted and poisoned air, water and soil....If we divide this number by total Industrial population we get per capita waste which is a measure of per capita killing of air, water and soil.

Every citizen of Industrial Society is a Serial Killer.....Serial Killer of nature.....Serial Killer of animals, trees, air, water and land.

Mass shooters are not the only insane people in this society.....The entire Industrial Society is insane.

The entire Industrial Society is insane, abnormal and criminal.
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Industrial Society is a curse on this planet.

This planet can only sustain "Food Searching" or "Food Producing" Societies.....It cannot sustain an Industrial Society.

This planet can only sustain Hunter_Gatherer Society or Agrarian Society.....It cannot sustain an Industrial Society....It cannot sustain an Urban Society that produces thousands of consumer goods and services instead of food.

An Industrial Society will always be cruel to millions of other species and to itself.

A society that has destroyed all the natural resources of the planet will also destroy itself.

After destroying biodiversity and ecosystems which sustained human life for millions of years man will not even exist.

Welfare of humans and millions of other species is only possible in a non-industrial society.

Industrialization was the biggest crime on earth....The biggest act of killing, murder and terrorism on earth.

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Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment

Edited by sushil_yadav, 24 December 2012 - 04:25 PM.


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#90 sushil_yadav

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Posted 02 January 2013 - 05:44 AM

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Five Elephants were run over by a train in the state of Orissa in India yesterday.

One of them was a female in advanced stage of pregnancy whose foetus came out as the train hit the mother.

The world will celebrate one more New Year's Eve today......After torturing, slaughtering and decimating millions of species this world will celebrate yet another New Year today.
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After destroying planet Earth.....After destroying most of the biodiversity and ecosystems, Industrial Society should be in Mourning but it wants to Celebrate instead.

It wants to Celebrate Diwali, Christmas, New Year and Hundreds of other Festivals.

If Industrial Society had any shame there would have been no Celebrations in the past , no celebrations for the next thousands of years.....only Mourning.

Industrial Society has decimated millions of Animal Species, destroyed Forests, poisoned Rivers, Oceans, Soil and Sky with Billions of Tonnes of Solid, Liquid and Gaseous Industrial Waste.

Industrial Society is a curse on this planet.

Celebrate!!!....Celebrate!!!....Celebrate!!!

Celebrate Diwali, Christmas, New Year and Hundreds of other Festivals!!!!.....Go Shopping.....Spend Money.....Buy Gifts....Buy thousands of consumer goods and services.....Promote and Accelerate Industrial Activity which will kill even more Biodiversity and Ecosystems.

And then wait for next year to celebrate the death of nature once more.
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Industrial Society is a curse on this planet.

This planet can only sustain "Food Searching" or "Food Producing" Societies.....It cannot sustain an Industrial Society.

This planet can only sustain Hunter_Gatherer Society or Agrarian Society.....It cannot sustain an Industrial Society....It cannot sustain an Urban Society that produces thousands of consumer goods and services instead of food.
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More than 99.9% destruction of this planet has already happened.....Only the end of humans is yet to happen.

Most of the Biodiversity and Ecosystems have already been destroyed.

Species are not lost when they become extinct....Species are lost when they get decimated....Species were lost when their populations dropped from billions and millions before industrialization to thousands and hundreds after industrialization.

There are(were) millions of species in this world....Most of them have already been decimated because Industrial Activity has destroyed most of the forests....Millions of Plant and Animal species have been decimated by Mining Industry, Logging Industry, Construction Industry, Manufacturing Industry, Energy Generation Industry, Oil Drilling, Oil Refining, Transportation Industry, Millions of kilometers of Rail and Road Networks, Ports and Airports..

If we calculate the decline in populations of millions of species after industrialization the combined loss will come to more than 99.9%.

Rivers, Lakes, Oceans, Atmosphere and Land have been polluted, poisoned and killed by trillions of tonnes of Metal Waste, Plastic Waste, Chemical Waste, Gaseous waste, eWaste and Nuclear Waste.....The entire planet has become a Toxic Dump.....All Solid, Liquid and Gaseous Industrial Waste that has been produced by Industrial Society in 250 years after Industrial Revolution has accumulated on earth....It has not gone out of earth.

Oceans have turned acidic and warmer and there are oxygen deprived dead zones in the oceans....Fish in the oceans have been decimated by Industrial Fishing.

Billions of acres of fertile soil that was the source of food to millions of species has been killed by Cement, Concrete and Asphalt.

More than 99.9% destruction of this planet has already happened.....Only the end of humans is yet to happen.

A society that has destroyed all the natural resources of the planet will also destroy itself.

After destroying biodiversity and ecosystems which sustained human life for millions of years man will not exist...It is only a matter of a few years now.
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Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment

Edited by sushil_yadav, 02 January 2013 - 05:45 AM.

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