LONGECITY

Joseph Cohen wrote an article about why methionine is good and why restriction might be bad: https://selfhacked.c...ne-restriction/

What do you guys think of this? I know we do need methionine to make SAMe to methylate DNA.

 

The article link really only mentions something good about glycine in terms of homocysteine. I don't think there's any evidence that in humans, glycine creates some kind of methionine restriction effect as linked earlier about mice. Even if it did, I wouldn't think it'd be bad as a once a day thing. I doubt its effects last that long. I would just be sure you don't have the MTHFR gene mutation (I don't) and if you do, just be sure to take methylfolate if you take glycine.

 

In the Examine article linked earlier there is some evidence that it helps with sleep quality, in addition to skin/collagen. I take it for those reasons really. I can attest to the sleep quality effects, which may be part of why people benefit from taking it. Quality sleep has a big effect on health.

Edited by Nate-2004, 25 December 2017 - 04:26 AM.

Thanks, I only read the first two pages of this topic properly. I thought Darryl provided some evidence glycine can mimic methionine restriction?
And on the same topic, the only reason why I don´t take NAC is because of it´s methionine restriction inhibiting effects. It can help with OCD (which I suffer from) and offers a few other benefits, and I couldn´t find any other negative effects. Perhaps anyone might give feedback on NAC too?

As you are concerned with sleep quality, have you looked into lemon balm, valerian and melatonin? If you did, any reason why you don´t take it? Or you can eat an ounce of goji berries for about 15mcg of melatonin: https://nutritionfac...s-for-insomnia/. Because melatonin is potent it can increase blood levels 50-fold in the body, one can get about 750mcg of melatonin of one ounce of goji berries.

However, I can not recommend folic acid myself: https://nutritionfac...waste-of-money/ and https://nutritionfac...cid-be-harmful/. I would rather focus on eating things like spinach for regular folate. 

 

 

Edited by Leon93, 25 December 2017 - 10:37 AM.

I started taking glycine for sleep about 6 weeks ago. The odd thing is it really only works when I mix with it with unsweetened gelatin. If I take glycine with warm water.... No effect. Mix a teaspoon with unsweetened gelatin and it works. Very odd. I've notice my finger nails are stronger. I now take it with theanine, melatonin, C, and valerian. Sleep is induction is pretty darn good for a long term insomniac.

Edited by Rocket, 25 December 2017 - 01:56 PM.

Thanks, I only read the first two pages of this topic properly. I thought Darryl provided some evidence glycine can mimic methionine restriction?
And on the same topic, the only reason why I don´t take NAC is because of it´s methionine restriction inhibiting effects. It can help with OCD (which I suffer from) and offers a few other benefits, and I couldn´t find any other negative effects. Perhaps anyone might give feedback on NAC too?

As you are concerned with sleep quality, have you looked into lemon balm, valerian and melatonin? If you did, any reason why you don´t take it? Or you can eat an ounce of goji berries for about 15mcg of melatonin: https://nutritionfac...s-for-insomnia/. Because melatonin is potent it can increase blood levels 50-fold in the body, one can get about 750mcg of melatonin of one ounce of goji berries.

However, I can not recommend folic acid myself: https://nutritionfac...waste-of-money/ and https://nutritionfac...cid-be-harmful/. I would rather focus on eating things like spinach for regular folate. 

 

Dr. Greger is informed about some things with regards to certain foods in the context of his strong, vegan bias, but he remains otherwise *willfully* ill informed about everything else.

 

Methylfolate is specifically good for the 40% of the population who can't convert folate to methylfolate due to a genetic polymorphism on MTHFR. This is about protecting one's self from high homocysteine levels and the resulting telomere / DNA damage that can occur, as well as avoiding under methylation. 400mcg is the *maximum* recommended dosage. Yes, folic acid can be harmful in higher amounts, that doesn't mean it's a waste, because for some people, they need it.

 

Also, this is about sleep *quality*, not getting to sleep. Glycine and L-Theanine alike both show evidence for improving the quality of sleep (aka, completing full, uninterrupted cycles and improved phases such as slow wave stage 4 deep sleep).  Lemon balm contains rosmarinic acid (there are better sources) which can help with sleep, valerian has little supporting evidence for help with sleep and melatonin should be used sparingly either in small amounts, 0.3mg, or in larger doses, 10mg, in rare cases where you want to protect the brain from damage by oxidation.

Edited by Nate-2004, 25 December 2017 - 04:14 PM.

And perhaps of most interest on this board, glycine supplementation appears to mimic methionine restriction, with clearance of excess methionine via glycine N-methyltransferase.

 

Benevenga NJ & Harper AE. 1967. Alleviation of methionine and homocystine toxicity in the rat. The Journal of nutrition 93.1: 44-52.

Peng YS et al. 1981. Alleviation of methionine toxicity by glycine and serine in rats pretreated with excess retinol. Nutrition Reports International.

Sugiyama K et al. 1987. Effect of dietary glycine on methionine metabolism in rats fed a high-methionine diet. Journal of nutritional science and vitaminology, 33(3), 195-205.

Rowling MJ et al. 2002. Hepatic glycine N-methyltransferase is up-regulated by excess dietary methionine in rats. The Journal of nutrition, 132(9), 2545-2550.

Luka Z et al 2002). Mutations in human glycine N-methyltransferase give insights into its role in methionine metabolism. Human genetics, 110(1), 68-74.

Fukada SI et al 2006. Suppression of methionine-induced hyperhomocysteinemia by glycine and serine in rats.Bioscience, biotechnology, and biochemistry, 70(10), 2403-2409.

Fukada SI et al 2008. Effects of various amino acids on methionine-induced hyperhomocysteinemia in rats. Bioscience, biotechnology, and biochemistry, 72(7), 1940-1943.

Brind J et al. 2011. Dietary glycine supplementation mimics lifespan extension by dietary methionine restriction in Fisher 344 rats. The FASEB Journal, 25(1_MeetingAbstracts), 528-2.

 

 

It probably depends upon whether one's seeking reduced homocysteine, effective methionine restriction, or other benefits. In Fukada SI et al 2008, the control rats consumed 0.8% (wt/wt) Met diets, while those with experimental hyperhomocysteinemia consumed 1.8% Met, so between 0.8% and 1.8% (range likely depends on other amino acid intake), the ability to regulate Hcy was overwhelmed. Supplemental intake of 2.5% glycine or serine (beyond the 1.8% Gly + Ser in the base diet) largely eliminated the Hcy elevation. For supplementation to reduce Hcy, perhaps 2 or 3:1 supplemental glycine/excess dietary methionine (wt/wt) is a useful target. On the other hand, Brind J et al. 2011 found roughly 28% lifespan extension with 8% Gly in a 0.43% Met diet (18:1), but didn't think their 4% Gly diet (9:1) results were worth mentioning in their poster abstract.

 

My own decision to opt for 1 heaping tsp (~6 g) is influenced mostly by Meléndez-Hevia E et al. 2009, which calculated a daily glycine deficit of –8.5 to –10 g/day. My supplementation is in the context of a barely methionine adequate lower-protein vegan diet (I'd shift to higher protein if I were 65+ yo).

 

Whoa. After a week of reading, including the referenced studies, I’m finally caught up with this thread! What a reading ride for a slow reader like myself.

Unfortunately, yet again, there’s no conclusive recommendation that can be made with regards to glycine. I’m adding at least 4g/day, split 2g each meal for now. I don’t think cancer proliferation is a concern for me at my age, yet.

After once more reviewing all available data I have resumed taking glycine though still uneasy about some of the possible downsides as posted by VP and others in March or April this year. Can't help noticing that a number of very well informed posters have not reacted to their cautions and have stopped contributing altogether. 

@Recon: though cancer occurrence certainly increases as a population grows older cancers can strike anyone at any age.

Can't help noticing that a number of very well informed posters have not reacted to their cautions and have stopped contributing altogether.

 

Oh, I'm paying attention, its just some of the things posted here are "beneath" refutation. eg, Cohen's tunnel vision thoughts on excess methionine being of potential benefit. While methionine restriction studies only date back 25 years in lifespan, 35 years in cancer prevention, there's a longer 65 year history of studies on the harms of methionine supplementation. It's long been known as the most toxic essential amino acid in excess. The bad news:

 

Reviews:

Benevenga. and Steele, 1984. Adverse effects of excessive consumption of amino acids. Ann Rev Nut, 4(1), pp.157-181.

Garlick, 2006. Toxicity of methionine in humans. J Nut, 136(6), pp.1722S-1725S.

Dever and Elfarra, 2010. The biochemical and toxicological significance of hypermethionemia: new insights and clinical relevance. Exp Op Drug Metab Toxicol, 6(11), pp.1333-1346.

Selhub and Troen, 2016. Sulfur amino acids and atherosclerosis: a role for excess dietary methionine. Ann NY Ac Sci, 1363(1), pp.18-25.

 

Recent studies:

Zhou et al, 2001. Dietary supplementation with methionine and homocysteine promotes early atherosclerosis but not plaque rupture in ApoE-deficient mice. Arterioscler Thromb Vasc Bio, 21(9), pp.1470-1476.

Troen et al, 2003. The atherogenic effect of excess methionine intake. Proc Nat Acad Sci, 100(25), pp.15089-15094.

Virtanen et al, 2006. High dietary methionine intake increases the risk of acute coronary events in middle-aged men. Nut Metab Cardiovasc Dis, 16(2), pp.113-120.

 

Yalçınkaya et al, 2007. Methionine-supplemented diet augments hepatotoxicity and prooxidant status in chronically ethanol-treated rats. Exp Toxicol Path, 58(6), pp.455-459.

Park et al, 2008. Methionine supplementation accelerates oxidative stress and nuclear factor  κB activation in livers of C57BL/6 mice. J Med Food, 11(4), pp.667-674.

Zulli and Hare, 2009. High dietary methionine plus cholesterol stimulates early atherosclerosis and late fibrous cap development which is associated with a decrease in GRP78 positive plaque cells. Int J Exp Path, 90(3), pp.311-320.

Yalçinkaya et al, 2009. Effects of high methionine diet on oxidative stress in serum, apo-B containing lipoproteins, heart, and aorta in rabbits. Ann Clin Lab Sci, 39(4), pp.386-391.

Gomez et al, 2009. Effect of methionine dietary supplementation on mitochondrial oxygen radical generation and oxidative DNA damage in rat liver and heart. J Bioenergetics Biomembranes, 41(3), pp.309-321.

Yalçınkaya et al, 2009. Oxidative and nitrosative stress and apoptosis in the liver of rats fed on high methionine diet: protective effect of taurine. Nut, 25(4), pp.436-444.

Stefanello et al, 2009. Hypermethioninemia provokes oxidative damage and histological changes in liver of rats. Biochimie, 91(8), pp.961-968.

Gomez et al, 2011. Methionine and homocysteine modulate the rate of ROS generation of isolated mitochondria in vitro. J Bioenerg Biomembranes, 43(4), pp.377-386.

McCampbell et al, 2011. Induction of Alzheimer’s‐like changes in brain of mice expressing mutant APP fed excess methionine. J Neurochem, 116(1), pp.82-92.

Vuaden et al, 2012. Long-term methionine exposure induces memory impairment on inhibitory avoidance task and alters acetylcholinesterase activity and expression in zebrafish (Danio rerio). Neurochem Res, 37(7), pp.1545-1553.

Aissa et al, 2013. Methionine concentration in the diet has a tissue-specific effect on chromosomal stability in female mice. Food Chem Toxicol, 62, pp.456-462.

Tapia-Rojas et al, 2015. Is L-methionine a trigger factor for Alzheimer’s-like neurodegeneration?: Changes in Aβ oligomers, tau phosphorylation, synaptic proteins, Wnt signaling and behavioral impairment in wild-type mice. Mol Neurodegen, 10(1), p.62.

Chaturvedi et al, 2016. High methionine diet poses cardiac threat: a molecular insight. J Cell Physio, 231(7), pp.1554-1561.

Onaolapo et al, 2016. Low-dose L-methionine-associated changes in behavioural indices in young rats. Int J Neurosci Behav Sci, 4(1), pp.11-19.

Aissa et al, 2017. Methionine-supplemented diet affects the expression of cardiovascular disease-related genes and increases inflammatory cytokines in mice heart and liver. J Toxicol Env Health, Part A, 80(19-21), pp.1116-1128.

 

I continue to use a heaping tsp (6-8 g) of glycine as sweetener in my evening hibiscus tea (and in summer, in lemonade). Given that it's been almost 1.5 years since I last systematically scanned the literature for interesting studies on glycine supplementation, I plan to do so later this afternoon, and will post results here.

 

Can't help noticing that a number of very well informed posters have not reacted to their cautions and have stopped contributing altogether.

 

Oh, I'm paying attention, its just some of the things posted here are "beneath" refutation. eg, Cohen's tunnel vision thoughts on excess methionine being of potential benefit.

 

I totally agree with you on Cohen's article. Some of the logic is faulty and he seems unaware of the difference between Met moderation and Met restriction.

 

However, I was referring to earlier posts, ## 168 and 175. They contain some references that gave me pause at the time, and I wonder what your opinion is....

@Nate,

 If I got the ´ill-informed´ rating because of the folic acid/folate topic, let me inform Greger does mention the MTHFR gene at 0:15 and homocysteine at 1:03 in the ´is folic acid harmful´ video. It is also mentioned numerous times in the comment section. NAC can also lower homocysteine, do you take it? And if not, why?

I think you need evidence to support the claim doctor Greger remains willfully ill informed about certain topics due to his ´vegan bias´.

 

Thanks for the sleep quality update. The article on lemon balm (https://examine.com/...sa-officinalis/) however does mention one study giving positive effects on sleep quality (first study). Additionally, I know 4 out of 5 studies also noticed positive effects on cognition (the examine page only mentions 3 of the 5, of which 2 were positive and 1 had negative results).
Some sites mention consuming valerian leads to a reduction in resting heart rate (as well as motherwort and hawthorn). Couldn´t find a study, but if it´s true it´s handy, as you guys probably know better than me a lower resting heart rate maximizes lifespan: https://nutritionfac...ulse-longevity/. Motherwort also seems effective for sleep according to WebMD but has no known dosage however. Hawthorn´s dosage is 160-1800mg divided in 2-3 doses daily. Has been used safely for up to 16 weeks, though long-term effects are not known yet. Improves symptoms in people with mild to moderate heart failure. However, other research shows that hawthorn may actually worsen heart failure and increase the risk of death or hospitalization.

Was it the glycine you mentioned earlier, referencing to examine.com which helped with sleep, skin and collagen?
And has anyone an opinion on eating goji berries before bed?

Edited by Leon93, 26 December 2017 - 10:19 PM.

First, 4 glycine supplementation studies since I last scanned in August-to-November 2016:

 

Vargas et al, 2017. Effect of oral glycine on the clinical, spirometric and inflammatory status in subjects with cystic fibrosis: a pilot randomized trial. BMC pulm med, 17(1), p.206.

 

Subjects with CF received, in random order, oral glycine (0.5 g/kg/day, dissolved in any liquid) and placebo...pulse oximetry improved after glycine intake (p = 0.04 vs. placebo). TNF-α in serum and IL-6 and G-CSF in sputum tended to decline at the end of the glycine period (p = 0.061, p = 0.068 and p = 0.04, respectively, vs placebo)...The clinical, spirometric and inflammatory status of subjects with CF improved after just 8 weeks of glycine intake, suggesting that this amino acid might constitute a novel therapeutic tool for these patients.

 

Heidari et al., 2018. Mitochondria protection as a mechanism underlying the hepatoprotective effects of glycine in cholestatic mice. Biomedi Pharmacother, 97, pp.1086-1095.

Mice underwent BDL operation and received glycine (0.25% and 1% w:v in drinking water) ... Glycine supplementation (0.25% and 1%) decreased mitochondrial swelling, reactive oxygen species, and lipid peroxidation. Moreover, glycine treatment improved mitochondrial membrane potential and restored liver mitochondrial ATP. On the other hand, it was found that glycine supplementation attenuated oxidative stress markers in the liver of BDL animals. Moreover, liver histopathological changes and collagen deposition were markedly mitigated by glycine treatment. 

 

Venkatesh et al, 2017. Effect of arginine: lysine and glycine: methionine intake ratios on dyslipidemia and selected biomarkers implicated in cardiovascular disease: A study with hypercholesterolemic rats. Biomedi Pharmacother, 91, pp.408-414.

 

The effect of intake ratios of arginine (Arg): lysine (Lys) and glycine (Gly): methionine (Met) on lipid profile and selected cardiovascular disease markers, was studied, in rats maintained on a hypercholesterolemic diet. The rise in blood cholesterol was countered by 32%, 24%, and 49%, respectively, through increased oral supplementation of Arg, Gly, and Arg + Gly; a corresponding increase in plasma phospholipids at the end of the 8-week study was observed. The elevated plasma cholesterol to phospholipids ratio was countered by 27, 40, and 57%, respectively, through oral supplementation of Arg, Gly, and Arg + Gly. The elevation in hepatic cholesterol was lowered by 18, 29, and 51%, respectively, while phospholipids concentration was concomitantly increased by these amino acids. The elevated cholesterol to phospholipids ratio was, thus, significantly countered in the hypercholesterolemic situation by orally supplemented Arg, Gly, and Arg + Gly. Increased plasma asymmetric dimethylarginine (ADMA) levels, under hypercholesterolemic conditions, were lowered by 12, 15 and 34%, respectively, while plasma symmetric dimethylarginine (SDMA) levels were lowered by 14, 10 and 17%, respectively, with orally supplemented Arg, Gly and Arg + Gly. Only Gly and Arg + Gly decreased plasma homocysteine levels. Total nitric oxide (NO) concentration was considerably increased by Gly supplementation in hypercholesterolemic rats. Thus, altered ratios of Arg:Lys or Gly:Met offered beneficial influence on the lipid profile and plasma levels of ADMA, SDMA and homocysteine in hypercholesterolemic rats. Optimal beneficial effects, among ratios tested, was observed when Arg:Lys and Gly:Met ratios were maintained in ratios of 1:1 and 2:1, respectively.

 

 

Zeb and Rahman, 2017. Protective effects of dietary glycine and glutamic acid toward the toxic effects of oxidized mustard oil in rabbits. Food & function, 8(1), pp.429-436.

 

Oxidized, un-oxidized mustard oils, glycine and glutamic acid were given to rabbits alone or in combination. The biochemical responses were studied in terms of haematological and biochemical parameters and histopathology. It has been observed that biochemical and haematological parameters were adversely affected by the oxidized oil, while supplementation of both amino acids was beneficial in normalizing these parameters. Both amino acids alone have no significant effects, however, oxidized oil affected the liver by enhancing fat accumulation, causing hepatitis, reactive Kupffer cells and necrosis. The co-administration of oxidized oils with glycine or glutamic acid revealed significant recovery of the liver structure and function.

 

 

Not supplementation studies, but noteworthy:

 

José Alburquerque-Béjar et al, 2017. Remote ischemic conditioning provides humoural cross-species cardioprotection through glycine receptor activation. Cardiovasc res, 113(1), pp.52-60.

 

Remote ischaemic conditioning (RIC) (4 × 5min femoral occlusion/5min reperfusion) was applied to 10 male pigs, and blood was taken before and after the manoeuvre. Discriminant analysis of 1H-NMR spectra obtained from plasma dialysates allowed to demonstrate a different metabolic profile between control and postRIC samples, with lactate (2.671 vs. 3.666 μmol/mL), succinate (0.062 vs. 0.082 μmol/mL) and glycine (0.055 vs. 0.471 ± μmol/mL) being the main responsible for such differences. Plasma dialysates were then given to isolated mice hearts submitted to global ischaemia (35 min) and reperfusion (60 min), for 30 min before ischaemia or during the first 15 min of reflow. Infarct size was significantly reduced when postRIC dialysate was applied before ischaemia as compared with hearts pretreated with control dialysate (44.81 vs. 55.55%). Blockade of glycine receptors with strychnine 10 μM inhibited the protective effect caused by pretreatment with postRIC dialysate (52.76 vs. 51.92%), whereas pretreatment with glycine 3 mmol/L, but not succinate 100 μmol/L, mimicked RIC protection (41.90 in glycine-treated vs. 61.51 and 64.73% in succinate-treated and control hearts, respectively).

 

 

Lu et al, 2017. Glycine prevents pressure overload induced cardiac hypertrophy mediated by glycine receptor. Biochem pharmaco, 123, pp.40-51.

 

pre-treatment with glycine significantly attenuated murine cardiac hypertrophy induced by transverse aortic constriction or by administration of angiotensin II (Ang II). This action was associated with a suppressive extracellular signal-regulated kinase 1/2 phosphorylation in myocardium. The cardioprotective effect of glycine disappeared when endogenous glycine receptor α2 was knocked down by mRNA interference in rats. Co-culture experiments revealed that glycine could also antagonize Ang II stimulated release of transforming growth factor β and endothelin-1 by cardiomyocytes, which prevented an over-production of collagens in rat fibroblasts.

 

 

This one concurs with past studies finding mTORC1 activation, good for muscle hypertrophy or preventing sarcopenia, not so good in other studies for longevity:

 

Sun et al, 2016. Glycine regulates protein turnover by activating protein kinase B/mammalian target of rapamycin and by inhibiting MuRF1 and atrogin-1 gene expression in C2C12 myoblasts. J Nut, 146(12), pp.2461-2467.

Compared with control cells, 0.25-1.0 mmol glycine/L enhanced cell growth (by 12-15%) after 24 h (P < 0.05). Glycine treatment led to increased DNA replication (by 70-80%) while enhancing mTORC1 activation by upregulating Akt and inhibiting AMPK signaling (P < 0.05). Accordingly, glycine exposure increased (P < 0.05) the rate of protein synthesis (by 20-80%) and inhibited (P < 0.05) the rate of protein degradation (by 15-30%) in a concentration-dependent manner in C2C12 cells. These observations were validated by the use of an Akt inhibitor, LY294002, or an AMPK activator, AICAR.

 

There's also a new open access review:

 

Razak, et al, 2017. Multifarious beneficial effect of non-essential amino acid, glycine: a review. Oxid Med Cell Longevity, 2017.

 

I've been taking NOW glycine 1000 mg x3 for twice a day now.

I have been taking them with food, lunch and dinner since I skip breakfasts as a mild IF. I always thought that since protein is eaten at those meals, those amino acids should be taken then too.

However, I was checking the bottle but I realized that the instruction reads that it is preferable to take them on an empty stomach. I then search online and realized that amino acids should be taken on empty stomach.

Why is this?

I then search online and realized that amino acids should be taken on empty stomach.

Why is this?

 

Because taken together they limit each other's absorption.
 

Potential negative impact of glycine in enhanced cell proliferation in cancer.

 

This is of concern.  There is other research that indicates that Glycine is of benefit in some cancers but this research started off as an in vitro metabolomic assessment of what changes with regard to a large panel of substances on a large set of cancer cell lines.  This was followed by more research that appears to confirm the association between existing cancer, glycine expression/availability, and mortality.

 

http://www.ncbi.nlm....les/PMC3526189/

 

Certainly gives me pause.

 

 

If you stop eat glycine, you will certainly get cancer, glycine restriction result in methionine overload 

I started supplementing Glycine because of this thread, but my experience wasn't good:
 
https://www.reddit.c...ee_times_and_i/
 
Plus, the research scares me: 

Glycine-induced CA1 excitotoxicity in the rat hippocampal slice

http://www.sciencedi...006899395004653
 
 
Glycine-induced neurotoxicity in organotypic hippocampal slice cultures.
https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/15490133
 

Contribution of endogenous glycine site NMDA agonists to excitotoxic retinal damage in vivo. 

https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/16934894
 

Progression of ischaemic stroke and excitotoxic aminoacids.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.../pubmed/8996418


Glycine antagonist and NO synthase inhibitor protect the developing mouse brain against neonatal excitotoxic lesions.
https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/10088651
 
 
The role of D-serine and glycine as co-agonists of NMDA receptors in motor neuron degeneration and amyotrophic lateral sclerosis (ALS)

https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC3997022/

 

 

Another bad experience with Glycine in this forum:

http://www.longecity...ion-to-glycine/

 

 

Get out with your shity studies, nobody will believe you. 

I think I'm going to quit glycine because it increases DHT levels.. which cause baldness...

Anyone know how much glycine is in doctor's best magnesium glycinate/lysinate? Each pill has 0.9g of combined glycine and lysine but I can't seem to find the exact ratio.

 

Also, there's numerous people on Amazon and Reddit that report worsened sleep with glycine and magnesium glycinate - why may that be? They report insomnia, restless sleep, waking up groggy, etc. I thought glycine's excitatory action shouldn't occur when co-administered with an NMDA antagonist like magnesium.

Anyone know how much glycine is in doctor's best magnesium glycinate/lysinate? Each pill has 0.9g of combined glycine and lysine but I can't seem to find the exact ratio.

 

Also, there's numerous people on Amazon and Reddit that report worsened sleep with glycine and magnesium glycinate - why may that be? They report insomnia, restless sleep, waking up groggy, etc. I thought glycine's excitatory action shouldn't occur when co-administered with an NMDA antagonist like magnesium.

 

Update: contacted Doctor's Best and they said each pill contains 100 mg elemental magnesium, 650 mg glycine and 70 mg lysine.

I was a bit quick with my response which I wrote and posted on my smartphone. Now for the longer response:

I was about to make a new post about my past experience with certain supplements, of which the carninutrients and glycine were the primary reason to write it. Basically, I´m looking for the right amount of dosages for the carninutrients as many sites, sources and studies advise different amounts for vegans, vegetarians, athletes, elderly and children. Creatine made my hair thinner (via the 5AR-enzyme and DHT), which restored for a large part after I stopped taking it (+5g for 2/3 months, which was based of a lot of sources claiming this would be a decent dose). I took some saw palmetto and pygeum as well, which might also have helped (by lowering 5-AR and DHT). I think I just have bad genes when it comes to creatine - I think it just isn´t for me. There are many who don´t suffer from hair thinning after supplementing creatine for large amounts of time. 

Now, I have been taking glycine for a few months now... and I think it is making my hair thinner, just like creatine. This is the study which made me write the post yesterday: 
https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/18367344. Glycine upregulates 5-AR enzyme activity, thereby increasing DHT... at least it does in rats. Because glycine is a precursor to creatine (something I forgot before deciding to supplement it), it is probably only logical to be also thinning my hair once again. Creatine is biosynthesized from glycine, methionine and arginine in the body. Perhaps the glycine is being converted into creatine to a significant amount?

Anyone experiencing hair loss with creatine and glycine? There probably is a genetic condition involved. There are more stories on the internet about creatine causing baldness etcetera. There are more than enough people who don´t suffer from hair thinning after supplementing creatine though. I´m lucky to be having such a majestic scalp of black thick curly hair to begin with... which is slowly thinning once more :´(

I´m going to stop glycine for at least a few weeks/months and see what will happen. Also, as a bonus, does anyone think it might be better for vegans/vegetarians/athletes/elderly/children to be supplementing glycine instead of creatine? Roasted soy beans also contain a bit of glycine and other amino acids like alanine, and are pretty tasty, so certain groups might not need to supplement beta alanine for carnosine when taking them (about 3g of alanine per cup, which is about 192g).

Edited by Leon93, 23 April 2018 - 11:30 PM.

I also wonder how much glycine gets converted to creatine. I take 3 grams of creatine monohydrate daily, but when I add glycine to my regimen I seem to retain more water visually (not just intramuscularly). 

I just noticed how sesame/pumpkin seeds contain 2.413g of glycine per 100g… http://www.weightchart.com/nutrition/food-nutrient-highest-lowest.aspx?nn=516&h=True
Another source lists them and roasted soy beans at about 1.83g per 100g
https://govegandiet.com/foods_high_in_glycine_sources_list.html
I am just noticing how regular foods like red lentils, other legumes, seeds, grains and nuts contain about a gram per 100g, of which I already am taking at least 300g daily… I think I am actually hurting my body by supplementing glycine. Spinach also seems to contain about 1,5g per 100g…

http://nutritiondata...html?maxCount=6 

 

I really dont get how Meléndez-Hevia et al. come to the conclusion people on average only get about 1.5-3g/daily out of their diet: https://www.research...agen_synthesis 

Edited by Leon93, 24 April 2018 - 11:10 AM.

Was a bit surprised to learn that Glycine is in Airflow powder for subgingival treatment. Glycine can be used to treat periodontal disease by spraying it at high velocity into gingival pockets.

I prefer hydromax at 5-10g/day. Keeps me extremely hydrated.

I'm not particularly familiar with the biology of artery walls, but i assume collagen has a lot to do with their make up.

If heart disease is driven by damage and slow repair mechanisms, then couldn't wall strengthening through collogen synthesis potentially help prevent the damage part of the equation?

 

Edited by aza, 15 August 2018 - 01:32 PM.

I am getting to that age where quality of life is starting to matter just as much to me as longevity.  I suppose this is the main reason people oppose efforts to increase longevity, as it would just increase their misery.  This is an emotional, not logical, response.   But it is easy to think that way as the aches and pains start taking their toll on your happiness.

 

Anyway, I say that because Glycine has a great effect on my anxiety, aches, pains and even BP.  In other words, it improves my quality of life greatly.  I have never seen a thread about an anti-aging molecule where people didn't find some study or fault with it, especially regarding cancer.  So this is nothing new.  All in all, Glycine seems remarkably safe, so if it is working for you keep taking it.

 

Having said that, if you are the overly precautious type, it's also a no-brainer to just use gelatin.  It is perfectly natural, and we have a long evolutionary history with it.  It has two other amino acids in it that are also quite beneficial, Proline and arginine, along with negligible Methionine.

 

At this point I'm leaning toward gelatin, even though Glycine sure does make me feel good.  I would have a hard time coming up with reasons NOT to take one of these compounds.  I always wondered why my farmer grandfather lived to be 98 (not typical for my family) while eating pork fat and skin almost every day.  Well, pork has a better amino acid profile than beef, and possible chicken too.  And Glycine is a big part of that. 

Anyone notice libido issues with glycine?

I have been using Glycine and Inositol for a long time now. Maybe a year. 3g Glycine Before bed. If I Wake up at night and suspect it will be hard to fall asleep again I take 2-3g of Inositol.

 

This has increased my quality of sleep a lot.

 

This forum has taught me about MitoQ, Glycine and Myo-inositol, for that I am very grateful.

I'm not sure atm about the glycine I bought at the start of this year. I suspect it thins my hair, so unless anyone knows a way to counter this effect (glycine probably does this by raising DHT), I decide to sell them. I bought 10 of them from Bulkpowders because I was very sure it wouldnt have any negative effects, but I guess I was wrong.

Unfortunately it is impossible to sell glycine second-handed on any online site where I live, so it can only be sold to someone I met irl... or perhaps right here on Longecity. If anyone is interested, I sell glycine for 5-8 euro per 500g. The more you want the lower I will go. I have 8 unopened packs left. This is a one-time offer since I have to sell them for less than I bought them for and I don't like the effort of stelling over again.

I havent tried to sell it on Amazon or eBay however.
Send me a PM if interested if not wanting to do it pubicly here

I almost forgot, I also have 6 1kg onopened creatine monohydrate Elite left from Myprotein. I sell those for 5-7 euro per pack. I would be quick about these however since I suspect them to be sold soon. Do note, the 'best before' date runs until november 2018. Luckily creatine is still fine 3-5 years after produce (early 2017 of these).
I am not affiliated with any of these companies, I bought creatine for the exact same reason as glycine.

I have a very simple question someome might have already asked but I read over: if glycine indeed has a deficiency status in humans, how would that translate to the human diet over the last centuries millennia, if not the diet of our ancestors for millions of years? Did we always had this deficiency status? Is this a way to 'highjack/trick' our metabolism in a way that is beneficial for longevity? Did (rather modern) humans perhaps got glycine from bone broth or gelatine?

And another question I have; if glycine supplementation indeed has several benefits like methionine inhibition, how many years to life could it extend? I heard someome once mention a few supplements like glucosamine could extend life by about 4-5 years if taken for over a lifetime.