37 replies to this topic

[sub7]

My problem is that any kind of stimulating experience puts me -mentally- into high gear and it takes forever to get back down to a relaxed state. Whenever I have an even slightly above average day in terms of excitement my mind will start racing a mile a minute and stay on high gear for many many hours afterwards. Even if the experience is enjoyable (like for example going to a friend's wedding) as opposed to being stressful, the end result is the same. This severely disrupts my sleep and causes a host of other problems. I wonder if there are any compounds that I can use, nootropic or other types (it must be legal however).

I have tried SamE, Ashwaganda, 5-HTP, ZMA and others but none had an effect in the short term. Maybe one would need to take them on a long term, consistent basis to see any effect? Especially, I was surprised that Aswaganda had no effect. Do I need to take it on an empty stomach or pay attention to any other factors to see an effect?

Thanks much...

Sub7

[worldeater]

Sublingual vitamin B always worked for me.

[sub7]

Worldeater, how much did you take at a time and how quickly would it show its effect?

Sub7

[xanadu]

sub7, I am much the same way. Any excitement affects my sleep very often and the next day I'm frazzled. I have found that relaxation and meditation helps plus all the usual insomnia advice like don't eat a heavy meal late in the day, no bright lights late in the day, no spicey foods etc. As for something to pop in a pill and do the job, yes, there are some things. About the best is phenibut but it can be habit forming and is best kept for special occasions. Sounds like you are concerned mostly about those special occasions rather than everyday.

I have recently started with bacopa which I wish I had known about long ago. It is a mild sedative, mild laxative, improves memory and some other good things. Best of all, it's an herb and a plant, not an artificial chemical. It was used for centuries or perhaps thousands of years in India. It's used for a host of ailments. I find it calms me somewhat. I take 600mg now before bed but they say I should use more. I have done well using less drugs than recommended, I seem to react more strongly than most. I may up the dose but it's fluffy stuff. I used a 000 cap but only tamped it once. Next time I'll tamp it a few times to get more in.

Other good bets are gaba or l. theanine. Too much gaba gives me stomach sensations but around 600mg per day seems doable for me and a mild sedation. Theanine is good, I use 225mg but that may be a low dose. Put it all together and it works. I save the phenibut for those special occasions and for everyday, the gaba, bacopa and theanine. I hear phenibut might be taken off the market soon. They are talking about it being like the replacement for ghb and once they say that, it means the jerkoffs, oops, sorry, I meant our wonderful government, will surely ban it soon.

[worldeater]

Hey sub7 I'm sorry but it's been a long time since I'd last used it, so I can't really say for certain how much I used at a time, but the directions on the bottle should have some dosage information. I remember that it absorbed very rapidly, and it helped calm me down within minutes. You can buy it at your local grocery store. For the past year or so, I've just been taking a complete B complex vitamin every morning which I'll probably take for years to come.

[sub7]

Thank you very much Worldeater (like your username by the way). Actually I also tried GABA, Theanine and Phenibut. They, too, do not seem to have an effect on me and I do not know if should try to take them at higher doses or more regularly -at lest the Thenaine.

I have not tried bacopa and will surely look into it. Also, are sublingual Vitamin B tablets different from regular Vit B? Are they made specifically to be sublingual? And as far as the sublingual B goes, do you take a complete B complex sublingualy or is it a specific B such as B6 or something.

Once again, really appreciate the feedback. If anyone else wants to provide an opinion here that would be great...

Sub7

[xanadu]

I'd like to see the person phenibut has no effect on. Try a gram and tell us it has no effect. A gram isn't even that large a dose.

[ajnast4r]

MEDITATION...YOGA

do not look for a pill to cure everything... no pills will relax your mind like meditation will.

[sub7]

I'd like to see the person phenibut has no effect on. Try a gram and tell us it has no effect. A gram isn't even that large a dose.

I have tried a gram after I read your post. Thus far it has been around 3 hours and I feel no different. I doubt it will do much over the coming hours. I am not trying to prove you wrong, just sharing what I have experienced.

And ajnast4r,
I have done meditation for close to a decade. It is not useless but in no way does it suffice to solve my problem. It is easy to label people as "looking for an easy cure" but the truth is that Yoga and Meditation do not work wonders for everyone. "A pill" may be necesary for some...

Sub7

[worldeater]

Oh by "sublingual" I meant liquid. It usually comes in a little container with a dropper, and you just keep some under your tongue for a little bit. I've found that this is the best way to really feel the effects of vitamin b for reduction of anxiety. I believe it was just a b-complex...

[sub7]

Thanks a lot worldeater...

[xanadu]

It's all about trying the right dosage. If you are resistant to some things, you may need more. If a gram of phenibut does nothing, 2 grams should do the job. If a small amount of theanine or gaba does nothing, try more. It's just common sense. I hear the body builders use up to 18 grams a day of gaba. I think that's a huge overdose but it shows that you can take 5 grams, for example, with no harm. A large enough dose of anything will have an effect. I hear people say sometimes that they get no effect from something because they took it so long but if they took the whole bottle it would not only have an effect, it might be an overdose.

Phenibut is more of a calming infuluence rather than just to make you go to sleep. You may be feeling the effects and not noticing it. You may be looking for something else and not recognise what it does. 2 or 3 grams should be safe but don't drive after you take it. You seem to have some sitting around so why not try it out properly?

[sub7]

Xanadu,

At first 1 gram of Phenibut did nothing for me. But as the night went on, I started to feel really sentimental/emotional. Then the next day (i.e. today) there was none of the sentimentality left but I became extremely talkative and very witty, I very seriously doubt this is a placebo effect because it was really strong.

Are these normal? What I mean is
-could Phenibut have such a delayed effect, doing nothing during the first 3 hours but then act and last well into the next day?
- could it make you talkative and witty, without making you feel relaxed?

Sub7

[sub7]

By the way, forgot to mention: Despite the socializing effects, it definitely did not seem to calm me down, neither last night nor today... I would say that my mind is just as active -or maybe even slightly more so- as usual.

[xanadu]

Well, sub, you refuse to try a larger dose and you tell us it has no effect on you. If that were true, why don't you take 3 grams at once? It won't kill you but you will be forced to admit it has an effect. There are no recorded cases of anyone not being affected by morphine or other narcotics. They may have a tollerance, maybe a huge tollerance but enough of the drug will not only have an effect, it will kill them. I'm not sure if a drug exists that some people have no effect from, no matter how much they take. In some cases the effects are different for some people than others. A few may not get the beneficial effects or might get nasty side effects. I'm just saying that since you seem to have a supply, why not take a larger dose and see what it does? I wouldn't take it every day, even if you like it. No more than once a week is optimal, IMO.

I see you speak of "socialising effects". So it seems one gram did have an effect but not as much as you would have liked. Wait a few days, try 3 grams and get back to us. Don't do it before you have to drive or work.

[sub7]

Well, sub, you refuse to try a larger dose and you tell us it has no effect on you. If that were true, why don't you take 3 grams at once? It won't kill you but you will be forced to admit it has an effect.

Xanadu,
How can you say that I am telling you it has no effect on me when I clearly mention that it had a very profound effect? It just was not the kind of effect that I was looking for. The socializing effect was much more pronounced than the relaxation I was hoping for.

"It won't kill you but you will be forced to admit it has an effect." Why do you think I would have an interest in trying to disprove the efficiency of Phenibut?I am not selling a competing compund, nor am I trying to lecture anyone.

Thank you very much for your help. For the time being I think Phenibut is not a great choice for me as an agent for relaxation. If you or others have any other suggestion, I would love to hear them. I also have some GABA but I am wondering if its effect will be very much along the lines of Phenibut. (I have not used the GABA in large doses yet, the smaller dose did nothing)

Cheers,

Sub7

[scottl]

MEDITATION...YOGA

do not look for a pill to cure everything... no pills will relax your mind like meditation will.

Word.

More importantly, if you learn to relax on your own, you can bring that quality into your life and not be dependent on pills. For example try:

http://www.thewayofs...meditation.html

Try it as is a few times/day or even better take a good minute or three and do it twice a day. I think you'll find the long term benefits much greater then most pills of this sort.

[sub7]

MEDITATION...YOGA

do not look for a pill to cure everything... no pills will relax your mind like meditation will.

So meditation will relax the mind more than benzodiazepines, heroin or beta-blockers? Really? Do you actually believe what you have just said?

(For the record: I am not advocating the recreational use of such drugs, nor do I deny the side effects. But to say that meditation will calm the mind more than ll the drugs out there -including the most potent ones- is just ridiculous)

[sub7]

Just bumping this to the top and adding that in the meantime I also tried Theanine, GABA, R.Rosea, Melatonin Calcium+Magnesium with not much effect...

Any other ideas?

Sub7

[bipolar]

Have you tried Kava? From what I hear, it can be very powerful. You might have to do some research though, because it seems that some of the kava supplements are next to worthless. From what I've read on different forums, the best way to use it, is to buy high quality powdered root and actually make the tea out of it. If you do, it might be best not to drive or operate machinery, lol.

Here are some places to order...

http://iamshaman.com/kavaprice.htm
http://www.kickbackwithkava.com/
http://www.konakavafarm.com/index.htm

[sub7]

Thanks a lot Bipolar...

I am looking into Kava right now, but there are some remarks about its potential liver toxicity. Any thoughts or research about that???

[mitkat]

I used to love the idea of kava, and would take it fairly frequently.

Then you hear the kind of news that's kinda upsetting:

http://www.cmaj.ca/c.../full/166/6/777
http://www.hc-sc.gc....002_56bk_e.html

kava even got banned in canada -
http://www.hc-sc.gc..../2002_56_e.html

[xanadu]

The liver toxicity was due to greedy vendors grinding up the leaves and stems along with the root to make their powder or extracts. The above ground part of the plant contains toxic substances, the root does not. Natives who used it all their lives in copious quantities had no higher rate of liver problems than other populations. They've used it for generations. sub, you will probably try it and say it does nothing.

[Pablo M]

Kurzweil's Fantastic Voyage mentioned that some westerners lack a specific liver enzyme that metabolizes kava.

kava even got banned in canada -

Kava is available again now. Same story with SAMe-- banned, then un-banned. Baaahhhhhh, Health Canada is so arbitrary!

[mitkat]

dante, you da man. after posting that i looked a little deeper...you're right, it's on the market. it just sort of fell out of favour with me at that point and i wasn't interested any longer.

i LOVE how some companies use all plant matter from medicinal herbs, indiscriminant of which parts are active compounds, either positive or negative. way to ruin the entire idea of standardizing anything!

[sub7]

Thanks a lot Gentlemen for all the reponses. Kava seems worth a try

sub, you will probably try it and say it does nothing.

Xanadu, let me decide what to say and what not, OK?

Sub7

[rfarris]

sub, you will probably try it and say it does nothing.

Xanadu, let me decide what to say and what not, OK?

I'm betting with Xanadu.

[ajnast4r]

So meditation will relax the mind more than benzodiazepines, heroin or beta-blockers? Really? Do you actually believe what you have just said?

yes, i do. i dont consider a drugged up stuper to be a relaxed state. the mind should be calm and quiet, but maintain awareness... that is relaxed

Just bumping this to the top and adding that in the meantime I also tried Theanine, GABA, R.Rosea, Melatonin Calcium+Magnesium with not much effect...

how about some meditation? lol [lol] really man, give it a shot... 5-10 minutes, once a day for a month. i think you will be pleased

[djk_]

if you use a computer up about until you may want to get some sleep there are programs called brain wave generators that produce sounds that may help relax
you. turning down the brightness and contrast may help also. bwgen.com is one
generator I know of.

[sub7]

I had heard of bwgen before but your post finally made me go and download it. I am using it right now as I am writing this. By the way, the website does not mention if one can listen to the sounds from a headphone while at the same time engaging in other activites but I assume it is OK (especially if the module has only sound but no visuals)

Thanks for the help

Sub7