29 replies to this topic

[skuldugary]

Well, after reading many of the posts in this forum, I'm attempting to rework some of my eating habits.

In particular, I typically start the day with a smoothie, and end the day with, well, a smoothie [huh]

So, after reading posts on this and other forums, I find:

- milk and all milk products, including yogurt and casein protein, are possibly the most dangerous substances in the universe due to their cancer promoting characteristics
- fruit juices are bad because they cause insulin spikes
- orange juice is really bad because of the acidity as well as the fructose
- bananas are bad because they are empty calories and have a high glycemic index
- grinding up fresh fruit is bad because it releases all the antioxidants (makes me want to clap a lid on my blender, imagining little antioxidents rising from my drink)
- frozen fruit is bad because it is not as good as fresh fruit but may be good because all those antioxidants are frozen so they are trapped when ground up (insert your mental image here)
- flax oil and flax seed are bad because they are linked with prostate cancer and go rancid instantly
- eating fiber is bad because it inhibits vitamin and mineral absroption
- eating fiber is good because it helps moderate insulin and glycemic load
- soy protein is bad because it has been linked with cancer
- whey protein at night is bad because it is fast absorbing

My breakfast smoothie was yogurt, milk, mixed protein, frozen strawberries, fresh banana, LEF mix, flax oil and profibe (a fiber supplement). This basically breaks EVERY RULE listed above, except the fruit juice one, but don't worry, I broke that rule with my nightcap, which was using orange juice (gasp!) as the base.

So now that I have been reduced to a quivering mass of insecurity, I have to ask: what DO you folks put in your smoothies?!?

I decided to start over formulating my smoothie, and I never got past step 1: put something liquid into the blender.. is this water? Evidently it's not milk or juice. Coffee? [glasses]

Anyway, I would love to know what recipes some of you use for smoothies, and your reasoning.

I admit I would particularly like to hear from dukenukem, as you have made reference several times to the 100,000+ ORAC super drink with 20+ ingredients that you drink in the am. [thumb]

Thanks for any responses!

[ajnast4r]

[quote]- milk and all milk products, including yogurt and casein protein, are possibly the most dangerous [/quote]

correct... unless it organic and UNHOMOGONIZED.. even then keep it at a minimum


[quote]- fruit juices are bad because they cause insulin spikes[/quote]

incorrect. pasturized(anything in a bottle/can) fruit juice is dead basically... the heating kills alot of the vits/phytonutrients. go for the fresh stuff

[quote]
- orange juice is really bad because of the acidity as well as the fructose[/quote]

citrus is only acid untill its digested, it leaves alkaline ash in the body.. whoever told you that is incorrect. same as above about pasturization.

[quote]- bananas are bad because they are empty calories [/quote]

yes.. but they arent gonna kill you


[quote]- grinding up fresh fruit is bad because it releases all the antioxidants [/quote]

um that would make chewing bad also... WHOLELY incorrect

[quote]
- frozen fruit is bad because it is not as good as fresh fruit[/quote]

correct

[quote]but may be good because all those antioxidants are frozen so they are trapped when ground up [/quote]

incorrect

[quote]- flax oil and flax seed are bad because they are linked with prostate cancer and go rancid instantly[/quote]

not to my knowledge... flax seed has alot of health benefits
[quote]
- eating fiber is bad because it inhibits vitamin and mineral absroption[/quote]-

incorrect... unless your eating psyllium husk with yoru vitamins.

[quote]eating fiber is good because it helps moderate insulin and glycemic load[/quote]-

correct

[quote] soy protein is bad because it has been linked with cancer[/quote]

correct, kinda... in excess its bad for MEN because isolflavones in the soy protein have estrogenic activity... never heard the cancer thing.


[quote]- whey protein at night is bad because it is fast absorbing[/quote]

incorrect. makes NO difference unless your a body building


[quote]My breakfast smoothie was yogurt, milk, mixed protein, frozen strawberries, fresh banana, LEF mix, flax oil and profibe (a fiber supplement).[/quote]

lose the milk products, unless you are using organic, UNHOMOGONIZEDmilk... everytrhing else is FINE. try some soy yogurt, almond milk, or oat milk.

[quote] This basically breaks EVERY RULE listed above, except the fruit juice one, but don't worry, I broke that rule with my nightcap, which was using orange juice (gasp!) as the base.[/quote]

almost all your rules were incorrect

[quote]what DO you folks put in your smoothies?!?[/quote]

water, fruit, flaxoil, lecethin, coq10 powder, whey

[Pablo M]

I tried making a smoothie with water. BLECHH! I don't make smoothies anymore.

Edit: Duke told me in personal correspondence that he uses water for his smoothies. The high ORAC rating likely comes from his inclusion of Chinese wolfberries, which have phenomenal antioxidant capacity.

[wannafulfill]

whatever, every single day I use frozen organic fruit in organic milk with pure whey protein isolate (cold-filtration).

sometimes I use ON's 100% natural WPC instead because it's cheaper

edit - I realize the only fruit I use in these are berries of various types

Edited by wannafulfill, 26 September 2005 - 03:18 AM.

[skuldugary]

skuldugary
I really hope this is just a joke...

well, now, lets see. here are links and quotes to other threads in this forum for a few of the statements i made. doesn't mean they are right, just that a number of people have these opinions, and others *were* treating them seriously, not as a joke. By putting them all together i was hoping to get validation on which ones have general acceptance (thanks ajnast4r!) and for those that are working under these guidelines, (among them, it appears, dukenukem, justinrebo and scottl, all of whom seem to know what of they speak) i wanted to know what recipe they follow.. i apologize, i was not able to find representative links for all of the quotes in the time i have to put this together..

so, sadly, not a joke..[bl:)]

- milk and all milk products, including yogurt and casein protein, are possibly the most dangerous substances in the universe due to their cancer promoting characteristics
in http://www.imminst.o...t=0 dukenukem said:

I've not seen anyone mention the effect of casein, a slow digesting milk protein that's more dangerous to long-term health than milk fat. Casein is a proven fire starter for cancer cell reproduction, and it's a shame that anyone diagnosed with cancer isn't immediately told to cease dairy consumption. I personally avoid all dairy, except undenatured, micro-filtered (not heat processed) whey protein, meaning the protein hasn't been mangled by the processing, which happens in ALL pasteurized dairy products (which is all dairy unless you live on a farm and can get it fresh, or if you live in CA where they sell raw dairy).

and

Shepard, highly recommend this book, which discusses extensive research on casein and its relationship to cancer:

The China Study
http://tinyurl.com/b2ej6

in http://www.imminst.o...t=0 dukenukem said:

Yeah, practically nobody seems to be aware of the casein time bomb, even though there's been a lot of research worldwide showing its cancer promoting quality. This is why I avoid all dairy, with the exception of whey supplementation.

So many CRer's I know eat dairy, perhaps sabotaging their efforts. This, along with flax oil supplementation (laughably poor source of beneficial omega-3's, and known to encourage issues with the prostate and breast), are the two tragic mistakes I see CRer's make.

- fruit juices are bad because they cause insulin spikes
in http://www.imminst.o...71&t=5323&st=20 dukenukem said:

Um, any fruit juice, and many veggie juices, like carrot juice, are loaded with sugar (fructose typically) and should be strongly avoided because it will cause a sharp insulin surge, and then a blood sugar crash, leading to hunger. Straight fruits are far better because the fiber and complex carbs dampen the insulin effect.

and

Fructose is a nasty form of sugar that should be avoided in the quantities that you get in juices. In American Journal of Clinical Nutrition, Nov. 2000, it was reported that fructose increases triglyceride levels by as high as 32% (fructose is converted into the chemical backbone of triglycerides more efficiently than glucose). Another study showed that fructose reduced the affinity of insulin for its receptor. Therefore the body needs to generate more insulin to metabolize the same amount of glucose. The last thing anyone wants is to generate more insulin, as this is stongly pro-aging.

- bananas are bad because they are empty calories and have a high glycemic index
in http://www.imminst.o...71&t=5323&st=20 dukenukem said:

o Bananas, like potatoes, are a nearly worthless food. Never eat them, they're two sugary. The real nutritional payload of any fruit is in the skin, which is designed to protect the fruit from the elements. The meat of any fruit is merely sugary food for the inner seeds. Since you're peeling off the skin of the banana, you miss the nutritional payoff.

- grinding up fresh fruit is bad because it releases all the antioxidants (makes me want to clap a lid on my blender, imagining little antioxidents rising from my drink)
in http://www.imminst.o...71&t=5323&st=20 dukenukem said:

Here's another overlooked problem with fruits that are pulverized in a blender: A significant percentage of the fruit anti-oxidants are quickly exposed to oxygen from the whirring blender blades and are rapidly oxidized, making them invaluable to your body. A specialized fruit juicer is less damaging to the anti-oxidants, but then you're getting a pure juice again, and that's also bad news.

- frozen fruit is bad because it is not as good as fresh fruit but may be good because all those antioxidants are frozen so they are trapped when ground up (insert your mental image here)
in http://www.imminst.o...71&t=5323&st=20 justinrebo said:

I would think that the quite cold nature of frozen fruits would tend slow down this reaction rate greatly, they aren't liquified, just made into much smaller frozen chunks with most of the fruit material still on the inside of these chunks (granted a dramaticaly greater surface area than before).

- flax oil and flax seed are bad because they are linked with prostate cancer and go rancid instantly
in http://www.imminst.o...t=0 benfrankin said:

Flax is a poor source of Omega-3 fats. Animals need the long-chain n3 fats, like DHA and EPA. The shorter-chain LNA found in vegetable sources has no metabolic purpose that I know of, and humans have a very inefficient elongating mechanism. Also, that mechanism is one of the first things to go with a lot of health conditions. Fish and organic pastured eggs are great n3 sources, by contrast.

I don't know that there's enough flax in Mercola's Whey Healthier to make that much of a difference in that respect, but there's also the rancidity issue to consider. Flax seeds go rancid extremely quickly, which is why if you do use flax, you should grind it right before use, preferably with something which won't oxidize the flax just by grinding it.

- soy protein is bad because it has been linked with cancer
in http://www.imminst.o...t=0 benfrankin said:

Actually, soy phytoestrogens are pretty strong, not weak, and can wreak substantial metabolic havoc. Furthermore, they're potent anti-thyroid agents, meaning the scope of their harm isn't limited to the sex hormones. The processing soy protein undergoes forms lysinoalanine and nitrosamines, the latter of which are very carcinogenic. Soy products also tend to be high in aluminum, and also generally have MSG or MSG analogues added to help overcome their godawful taste. They generally or maybe always contain compounds which interfere with digestion and with the absorption of some nutrients.

There's just no earthly reason to consume soy protein. If you use protein powders at all (and I do, though there are certainly good arguments against the practice) you should stick to complete animal proteins that have been minimally processed at low temperatures. There are good whey protein powders out there, and there are probably good egg protein powders too. But keep in mind that protein isolates require extra vitamin A.

[scottl]

OK a few thoughts, and there will not be agreement on much stuff in this area:

1. Why do you want to consume smoothies at all, let along twice a day?

2. I would skip the soy. Very hard to digest and many are allergic...

3. If your body likes dairy at all (mine doesn't, and I'm not talking lactose intolerant) then whey is likely a better choice then casein. Yes you can make a case both are bad. If either is safe, it will be whey.

4. Flax oil: Taking fish/oil is a safer bet to give one enough of the good fats one wants. Is it unhealthy? Maybe. Correlation does not = causation i.e. link with cancer. I don't worry about it and still sometimes take flax IN ADDITION TO my fish oil. IT goes bad fast, but not instantly. Keep refridgerated. Buy small bottle and use within a few weeks-month. Do not cook with.

5. I would avoid fruit juices. Mixed berries would be a good addition.

Other things one could consider adding:

--Flora +/_ FOS
--some healthy oil to lower "glycemic index" of the mixture e.g. flax, olive (virgin olive oil is good stuff...alas not if you care about how the smoothie tastes
--chloryphil (of course you probably eat enough veggies so not necess) lliquid or green stuff e.g. chlorella, etc
--lecithin powder
--ground cinnamon and/or ginger
--powdered supps of your choice

Oh and here is what Paul Wakfur (the morelife guy) puts in his:

http://morelife.org/...h/smoothie.html

NB he is very sharp and knows what is what. OTOH reasonable minds can differ and he consumes both whey and soy protein.

[Pablo M]

--some healthy oil to lower "glycemic index" of the mixture e.g. flax, olive (virgin olive oil is good stuff...alas not if you care about how the smoothie tastes

Great suggestion, just don't do what I did once. I warmed some coconut oil up to liquefy it and then proceeded to blend it with frozen blueberies. Duh! Of course it solidified. What an idiot...

[wannafulfill]

for what it is worth I agree all with all of what you said, ScottL, and to answer your first question, convenience. If we have things we want to eat in various forms, ie liquid, powder, and frozen solids, it's the easiest way to get them down.

EDIT - I still just can't get over how thorough Paul Wakfur is on his site. It's very helpful, but it's pretty funny sometimes, ie explaining how he approaches how to get every last drop/chunk from the blender.

Edited by wannafulfill, 26 September 2005 - 03:35 AM.

[DukeNukem]

Flax seed = good. Flax oil = bad.

Whole fruits = good (in moderation). Fruit juices = bad. (Whole berries are best, as they are generally much higher in nutrients and ORAC value.)

My morning smoothie is made with 9 pH alkalized water from a special purifier that cost about $900. I do not use milk or soy milk.

Also in my smoothie is several tablespoons of fruit powders and green powders (though no grass containing green powders, instead I use stuff like New Chapter's Berry Green & LEF's Phyto Greens). I also use whey protein, LEF's daily powder mix, green tea extract, blueberry extract, cranberry extract, cherry extract, pomegranate extract, papaya extract, 2-3 grams cinnamon, 3-4 grams pure cocoa powder, 3 grams flax seed, 12-15 grams oat powder, a soluble fiber mix, a pinch of royal jelly, 5 grams creatine, 3 grams L-glutamine, 2 grams L-carnitine, 2 grams taurine, 2 grams MSM, 5 grams vitamin C powder (ascorbyl palmitate, the fat soluble type), 5 grams L-arginine, 1 gram TMG, 5 grams Risotrene, 2 grams modified citrus pectin and a few other odds and ends. And then, I take about 40 pills in the morning. Usually my next meal two hours later is a bowl of oatmeal with cinnamon, cocoa powder, a spoonful of apple sauce, 12 grams whey protein, and either blueberries or raspberries. Oatmeal early in the day has been shown to reduce blood sugar the entire day. Cinnamon is also a great daily regulator of blood sugar and reduces the need for insulin production, so I consume 4-6 grams a day.

[scottl]

Flax seed = good.  Flax oil = bad.

Duke,

Thanks for sharing your regimen.

However I am not sure I understand (though I can probably guess) your reasoning.


1. While I'm not overly concerned, either flax seed or oil would equally be at risk if the articles linking ALA i.e. flax to prostate cancer are correct.

2. Flax seeds contain their own problematic substance (I don't remember the details and would have to go look it up). If I recall correctly this is not an issue in small quantities e.g. 1 tablespoon or so. But if one wishes to get all their omega 3s from flax (not recommended IMHO) this might become an issue.

3. The only reason I can think of for Duke's

Flax seed = good. Flax oil = bad

would be the issue of going bad and rancidity. One has to grind the seeds anyway, and if used promptly and kept in the refrigerator, I doubt this is an issue.

[skuldugary]

Scottl-

thanks for your response!

1. Why do you want to consume smoothies at all, let along twice a day?

lets see: they are quick, easy, taste good and allow me to put most of the stuff i want to take into them. i use powders and liquids as much as possible because i hate taking pills. i can mix in any bad tasting stuff and hopefully mask the taste.

4.  Flax oil:  Taking fish/oil is a safer bet to give one enough of the good fats one wants.  Is it unhealthy?  Maybe.  Correlation does not = causation i.e. link with cancer.  I don't worry about it and still sometimes take flax IN ADDITION TO my fish oil.  IT goes bad fast, but not instantly.  Keep refridgerated.  Buy small bottle and use within a few weeks-month.  Do not cook with.

I've switched to fish oil (nordic naturals). will the amount they recommend (i.e. 1/4 teaspoon twice a day) be enough to moderate the glycemic index of the drink? if not, how much oil do you recommend? would fiber and protein also tend to moderate it?

-ground cinnamon and/or ginger

interesting. dukenukem also mentions cinnamon, and i didn't realize it had such healthful properties.

thanks for the feedback, it's really helpful.

[skuldugary]

dukenukem-

thanks for sharing this information, it's really helpful!

My morning smoothie is made with 9 pH alkalized water from a special purifier that cost about $900.  I do not use milk or soy milk.

I think you talked about this in other threads. is this because you feel that food tends to be acidic and you want to offset it? or that you personally tend towards acidic and are compensating? or is there an additional reason why you do this? do you have any links you can share?

Also in my smoothie is several tablespoons of fruit powders and green powders (though no grass containing green powders, instead I use stuff like New Chapter's Berry Green & LEF's Phyto Greens).  I also use whey protein, LEF's daily powder mix, green tea extract, blueberry extract, cranberry extract, cherry extract, pomegranate extract, papaya extract, 2-3 grams cinnamon, 3-4 grams pure cocoa powder, 3 grams flax seed, 12-15 grams oat powder, a soluble fiber mix, a pinch of royal jelly, 5 grams creatine, 3 grams L-glutamine, 2 grams L-carnitine, 2 grams taurine, 2 grams MSM, 5 grams vitamin C powder (ascorbyl palmitate, the fat soluble type), 5 grams L-arginine, 1 gram TMG, 5 grams Risotrene, 2 grams modified citrus pectin and a few other odds and ends.  And then, I take about 40 pills in the morning.  Usually my next meal two hours later is a bowl of oatmeal with cinnamon, cocoa powder, a spoonful of apple sauce, 12 grams whey protein, and either blueberries or raspberries.  Oatmeal early in the day has been shown to reduce blood sugar the entire day.  Cinnamon is also a great daily regulator of blood sugar and reduces the need for insulin production, so I consume 4-6 grams a day.

a couple of questions about your ingredients:

- there have been suggestions that green tea extract will inhibit absorption of vitamins (somethin AOR said, if i recall). has that been a concern?

- where do you get oat powder, or do you make it? (my wife has some she uses for oatmeal baths, somehow i don't think it's the stuff i want :-)

- you have both oat powder and soluble fiber. again, i've heard (this time i can't even quote a source) that soluble fiber will inhibit mineral and possibly vitamin absorption. has this been a concern?

thanks for sharing this, i really appreciate it! Now you've also got me thinking about my oatmeal: cinnamon and cocoa and applesauce all sound great. [tung] i guess i'll have to start experimenting.

[DukeNukem]

I use a special water purifier (link below) that does several useful things, including reducing the cluster size of water molecules, allowing for more easy absorption. Spring water has the same properties, but processed water we get through taps or is served in water bottles has become more clustered, and therefore less useful.
http://www.hightechh...onizer_main.htm

As for the alkaline water, an acidic body pH is pro-cancer and pro-disease, while the opposite is true of a body with a proper or very slightly alkaline pH level. I eat a lot of protein, which is acidic, and so this is one counter-measure I take.

I am not concerned with green tea and the absorption of vitamins/minerals. I've not read much about this in the countless books and articles I've read, and there are cultures who drink tea all day and live very healthy lives. There might be a minor effect, but I doubt it's enough to matter.

I get my oat powder from Whole Foods, a local chain of high-end grocery stores that cater to organic seeking and health aware consumers.

I'm not worried about the inhibition of nutrients from soluble fiber, for the same reason that the green tea doesn't bother me.

Note that I do not add sugar ever to anything, even my oat meal. Nor do I use milk or other dairy products. I do not miss it in the least -- once you've had a few bowls without it, you're fine, and the tablespoon of apple sauce (unsweetened, of course) does the trick.

[Pablo M]

I am not concerned with green tea and the absorption of vitamins/minerals.  I've not read much about this in the countless books and articles I've read, and there are cultures who drink tea all day and live very healthy lives.  There might be a minor effect, but I doubt it's enough to matter.

Actually, it has been suggested that drinking green tea with meals is precisely the reason why these cultures live so long. Green tea will fight the cascade of free radicals and neutralize a good number of carcinogens.

I am told by my Japanese friends that this practice is extremely common in Japan.

[mnosal]

Hey Duke, or anyone else with knowledge on the subject...

What is your take on organic Oat milk as a dairy substitute? I will not use soy(phytoestrogens) and am convinced I must cut out commercial Bovine dairy.

I have access to good organic goat cheese, prefer olive oil over butter already and don't eat any beef. My only weakness is milk. I used to consume 2+ gallons per week as a vehicle for Protein shakes and in my cereals & oats. I recognize the protein content of Oat milk doesn't compare, I'll make that up with a scoop of whey but the "mouth feel" is similar and it thickens water powders enough to pass for milk

Is Oat milk safe or does it have its own potential sides?

Edited by mnosal, 28 September 2005 - 02:20 PM.

[scottl]

Any form of "milk" e.g. rice, almond, oat, etc has carbs. Certainly all of those avoid the problems or potential ones with soy and milk. Slow cooking oats have a low glycemic index, but no way oat milk does.

Aside from that, and assuming "your body likes"* it shouldbe fine. The issue of carbs is a non-trivial one and has been discussed elsewhere.

*any thing can be theoretically OK, but is subject to the reality that your body may or may not like it. That is why theory and practice are different.

[ajnast4r]

*any thing can be theoretically OK, but is subject to the reality that your body may or may not like it.  That is why theory and practice are different.

*applause*

[DukeNukem]

I stay away from all so-called milks because from what I've read they are processed with acids and chemicals that to an extent remain in the final milk product. Personally, I have no reason to use a milk substitute, as after a while I've grown use to water as a liquid base, and if needed I'll use a flavored protein powder (sweetened with stevia).

I haven't read anything about oat milk, but in generally all of these milks seem high in simple sugars.

[mnosal]

Thanks for the replies gang, I'll give staight water a go and see if it doesn't grow on me

[skuldugary]

I noticed that dukenukem uses both a fiber powder and oat powder in his smoothie. both of these should thicken the consistency and might provide the "mouth feel" that you are looking for. that's what i'm going to try, anyway :-)

[kenj]

Also in my smoothie is several tablespoons of fruit powders and green powders (though no grass containing green powders, instead I use stuff like New Chapter's Berry Green & LEF's Phyto Greens).  I also use whey protein, LEF's daily powder mix, green tea extract, blueberry extract, cranberry extract, cherry extract, pomegranate extract, papaya extract, 2-3 grams cinnamon, 3-4 grams pure cocoa powder, 3 grams flax seed, 12-15 grams oat powder, a soluble fiber mix, a pinch of royal jelly, 5 grams creatine, 3 grams L-glutamine, 2 grams L-carnitine, 2 grams taurine, 2 grams MSM, 5 grams vitamin C powder (ascorbyl palmitate, the fat soluble type), 5 grams L-arginine, 1 gram TMG, 5 grams Risotrene, 2 grams modified citrus pectin and a few other odds and ends.  And then, I take about 40 pills in the morning.  Usually my next meal two hours later is a bowl of oatmeal with cinnamon, cocoa powder, a spoonful of apple sauce, 12 grams whey protein, and either blueberries or raspberries.  Oatmeal early in the day has been shown to reduce blood sugar the entire day.  Cinnamon is also a great daily regulator of blood sugar and reduces the need for insulin production, so I consume 4-6 grams a day.

Wow, Duke, what a power drink. So committed you are! I just wonder how you're NOT overloading your liver detox with your great intake of supplements, although doses of the different supps may be carefully balanced, the creatine dose at 5g every day seems very high for me when your goal is optimal health?
BTW, You take any DHEA for hormonal health?

[scottl]

Wow, Duke, what a power drink.  So committed you are! I just wonder how you're NOT overloading your liver detox ?

What is this based on?

the creatine dose at 5g every day seems very high for me

Why would you say this? What dose did you have in mind?

[DukeNukem]

Kenj,

5 grams of creatine is not too much to take everyday. You would need to take 30+ grams to even have any concern.

Also, as for stressing the liver, most of what I take (including pills) are merely food extracts or are from in food/plants, so it's no different that eating a meal. Far more stressful to the liver would be a trans-fat and saturated fat loaded meal from a fast food chain. I bet taking even a single Tylenol puts far more stress on the liver than my entire supplement program for a day. (Much of what I take, in fact, is good for the liver, such as NAC, SOD, and milk thistle.)

[pSimonKey]

I soak about 25grams each of hemp seeds, sunflower seeds, pumpkin seeds, brazil nuts, wall nuts and almonds over night to become enzyne rich an initiate the latent life process within them, blend them with spring water, filter through a fine mesh sieve to get a "milk". Then I add about 30 grams of organic undenatured whey protein, 15 grams of lecithin, a banana, a quater teaspoon of cinnamon, a tablespoon of org chocolate and a teaspoon of org ewes milk yogurt.

[kenj]

QUOTE (kenj)


Wow, Duke, what a power drink.  So committed you are! I just wonder how you're NOT overloading your liver detox ?


What is this based on?

I was merely wondering how these rather large doses of isolated nutrients would NOT burden some parts of the body and keep the liver TOO busy in detoxifying the nutrients, leading to even hepatic encephalopathy/liver problems when megadosing (in the long run -- years). This is just my speculation. [sfty]
I see Duke's regimen is loaded with the NICE nutrients and certainly very beneficial for minimizing aging of the body when used in large/therapeutic doses, - you would probably have to MEGAMEGAMEGA dose for it to have adverse effect.

QUOTE (kenj)

the creatine dose at 5g every day seems very high for me


Why would you say this? What dose did you have in mind?

There are no studies I can find that show creatine in doses of 0.1-10g to be harmful other than few individuals experiencing "gastrointestinal disturbances and muscle cramps" and people with pre-existing kidney problems.
I would think that larger doses make the kidneys work harder but it may be in excessive intakes of 30+g.

Also, as for stressing the liver, most of what I take (including pills) are merely food extracts or are from in food/plants, so it's no different that eating a meal. Far more stressful to the liver would be a trans-fat and saturated fat loaded meal from a fast food chain. I bet taking even a single Tylenol puts far more stress on the liver than my entire supplement program for a day. (Much of what I take, in fact, is good for the liver, such as NAC, SOD, and milk thistle.)

Yes. I see most of your supplementation is from plant-based sources, actually powering UP the liver function.

Thanks for your reply.

[hurricanejedi]

Wow I'm glad I came across this thread. I've been searching for more information about good things to add to my smoothies. I use rice milk as my base liquid. I'm currently using soy protein but want to switch to whey as soon as it runs out. My fiance and I have different goals with our smoothies so I make 2 seperate ones. He's trying to gain weight (through healthy fats - plain peanut butter, banana) where I'm trying to lose weight. I add milled flax to my smoothy and haven't had a rancid problem with it and I've had it for quite a while now. Other than that I sweeten with a little stevia, various fruits, and white grape concentrate. Then add in some greens powder which tastes pretty awful. Is there anything that can help overpower the taste of the greens? Some people have mentioned cocoa. Are there benefits to it? My fiance might like that... I hadn't heard of the cinnamon thing either, I might give that a try too (sounds good!). Any other suggestion for good weight gain/loss?

[hurricanejedi]

Does anyone have any information/links on the health benefits of raw cocoa? Someone mentioned something about dopamine. I have a family member whos dopamine levels are almost non-existant and would like to pass on any information that might be beneficial. Also as far as mood goes I've had a history of depression so am curious how this might influence that. How sparingly should this be used? Is it healthy to add it to the smoothies daily or should it be a sparser addition?