4 replies to this topic

[Michael Rian]

Hello,

I was wondering if anyone could spare some advice on treating anhedonia/apathy?

I've tried psych drugs and while some help temporarily(Stims), I am eventually left in a worse place.

Any help would be fantastic. Thank you.

[Area-1255]

9-methyl-beta-carboline or Deprenyl. 

Those aren't purely natural but they get the job done. 

Syrian Rue is an interesting one as well...

Cordyceps DEFINITELY has anti-anhedonic effect...it's pharmacology is interesting as well.

 

 

Biol Pharm Bull. 2007 Sep;30(9):1758-62.

Antidepressant-like effect of Cordyceps sinensis in the mouse tail suspension test.

Nishizawa K1, Torii K, Kawasaki A, Katada M, Ito M, Terashita K, Aiso S, Matsuoka M.

Author information

 

Abstract

Cordyceps sinensis (CS) has been known as a component of traditional medicines that elicit various biological effects such as anti-fatigue, immunomodulatory, and hypoglycemic actions. Since it has been well-established that fatigue is closely related to depression, we used the tail suspension test (TST) in mice to examine the antidepressant-like effects of hot water extract (HWCS) and supercritical fluid extract (SCCS) of CS. Immobility time in the TST was reduced by administration of SCCS (2.5-10 ml/kg, p.o.) dose-dependently though it was not reduced by treatment with HWCS (500-2000 mg/kg, p.o.). Neither HWCS nor SCCS altered locomotor activity in the open field test, excluding the possibility that the effect of SCCS is due to activation of locomotion. Pretreatment with prazosin (an adrenoreceptor antagonist) or sulpiride (a dopamine D2 receptor antagonist) reduced the effect of SCCS on the immobility time. In contrast, pretreatment with p-chlorophenylalanine (p-CPA, a serotonin synthesis inhibitor) did not alter the anti-immobility effect of SCCS. The last finding is consistent with an additional observation that SCCS had no effect on head twitch response induced by 5-hydroxy-L-tryptophan in mice. Taken altogether, these results suggest that SCCS may elicit an antidepressant-like effect by affecting the adrenergic and dopaminergic systems, but not by affecting the serotonergic system.

PMID:   17827735   [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]    Free full text

 

Edited by Area-1255, 24 September 2015 - 12:02 PM.

[Michael Rian]

Thank you area! Those all look like very interesting options! Cheers!

[gamesguru]

The relationship between D2/D3 receptor and motivation has been confirmed
by several studies. Apathy is a frequent complication after subthalamic nucleus stimulation of PD patients
as a delayed dopamine withdrawal syndrome, and is often responsive to dopamine D2/D3 agonists [5]. A
PET study also demonstrated that the dopamine transporter binding was reduced in the ventral striatum in PD
patients with apathy [14]. These findings suggest that apathy in PD is profoundly associated with abnormality in
dopamine transmission through D2/D3 receptor. Piribedil, another D2/D3 dopamine agonist, is widely used in
France. The effectiveness of piribedil on apathy after subthalamic nucleus stimulation was first demonstrated in
a placebo-controlled, randomized, double-blind trial [5].

 

Chronic cannabis apathy can be partly explained by D2 downregulation and partly reversed by caffeine:

Striatal D2/D3 Receptor Availability is Inversely Correlated with Cannabis Consumption

Caffeine increases striatal D2/D3 receptor availability in the human brain

 

 

As for the anhedonia, it's more complicated.  Serotonin excess in certain regions, deficit in others [this is really Jason's territory], as well as excesses or deficits in dopamine, gaba, glutamate, acetylcholine.

Try stuff like ginkgo, ginseng, tea, bacopa, maybe st. johns or saffron, exercise.

are you also suffering from other effects of depression? like impaired focus/concentration or brain fog, or vague physical pains, in the joints, head or neck?

Epigallocatechin gallate, the most active polyphenolic catechin in green tea, presynaptically facilitates Ca2+-dependent glutamate release via activation of protein kinase C in rat cerebral cortex

Ginkgo biloba leaf extract (EGb 761®) and its specific acylated flavonol constituents increase dopamine and acetylcholine levels in the rat medial prefrontal cortex: possible implications for the cognitive enhancing properties of EGb 761®.

The natural products magnolol and honokiol are positive allosteric modulators of both synaptic and extra-synaptic GABA(A) receptors.

"These compounds were shown to enhance the activity of GABA(A) receptors"

Magnolol enhances pentobarbital-induced sleeping behaviors: possible involvement of GABAergic systems.

"GABA(A) receptor alpha-subunit was increased selectively by magnolol"

Chronic Caffeine (8mg/kg) Alters the Density of Adenosine, Adrenergic, Cholinergic, GABA, and Serotonin Receptors and Calcium Channels in Mouse Brain

• cortical β₁ and cerebellar β₂ adrenergic receptors are reduced by ca. 25%
• GABA_A receptors [are] increased by 65%
• cortical 5 HT₁ and 5 HT₂serotonergic receptors are increased by 26–30%

 

Effects of a Standardized Bacopa monnieri Extract on Cognitive Performance, Anxiety, and Depression in the Elderly: A Randomized, Double-Blind, Placebo-Controlled Trial
Objectives: Study aims were to evaluate effects of Bacopa monnieri whole plant standardized dry extract on cognitive function and affect and its safety and tolerability in healthy elderly study participants.
Design: The study was a randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled clinical trial with a placebo run-in of 6 weeks and a treatment period of 12 weeks.
Setting/location: Volunteers were recruited from the community to a clinic in Portland, Oregon by public notification.
Subjects: Fifty-four (54) participants, 65 or older (mean 73.5 years), without clinical signs of dementia, were recruited and randomized to Bacopa or placebo. Forty-eight (48) completed the study with 24 in each group.
Interventions: Standardized B. monnieri extract 300 mg/day or a similar placebo tablet orally for 12 weeks.
Outcome measures: The primary outcome variable was the delayed recall score from the Rey Auditory Verbal Learning Test (AVLT). Other cognitive measures were the Stroop Task assessing the ability to ignore irrelevant information, the Divided Attention Task (DAT), and the Wechsler Adult Intelligence Scale (WAIS) letter-digit test of immediate working memory. Affective measures were the State-Trait Anxiety Inventory, Center for Epidemiologic Studies Depression scale (CESD)-10 depression scale, and the Profile of Mood States. Vital signs were also monitored.
Results: Controlling for baseline cognitive deficit using the Blessed Orientation–Memory–Concentration test, Bacopa participants had enhanced AVLT delayed word recall memory scores relative to placebo. Stroop results were similarly significant, with the Bacopa group improving and the placebo group unchanged. CESD-10 depression scores, combined state plus trait anxiety scores, and heart rate decreased over time for the Bacopa group but increased for the placebo group. No effects were found on the DAT, WAIS digit task, mood, or blood pressure. The dose was well tolerated with few adverse events (Bacopa n = 9, placebo n = 10), primarily stomach upset.

 

Effects of 12-Week Bacopa monnieri Consumption on Attention, Cognitive Processing, Working Memory, and Functions of Both Cholinergic and Monoaminergic Systems in Healthy Elderly Volunteers
At present, the scientific evidence concerning the effect of Bacopa monnieri on brain activity together with working memory is less available. Therefore, we aimed to determine the effect of B. monnieri on attention, cognitive processing, working memory, and cholinergic and monoaminergic functions in healthy elderly. A randomized double-blind placebo-controlled design was utilized. Sixty healthy elderly subjects (mean age 62.62 years; SD 6.46), consisting of 23 males and 37 females, received either a standardized extract of B. monnieri (300 and 600 mg) or placebo once daily for 12 weeks. The cholinergic and monoaminergic systems functions were determined using AChE and MAO activities. Working memory was assessed using percent accuracy and reaction time of various memory tests as indices, whereas attention and cognitive processing were assessed using latencies and amplitude of N100 and P300 components of event-related potential. All assessments were performed before treatment, every four weeks throughout study period, and at four weeks after the cessation of intervention. B. monnieri-treated group showed improved working memory together with a decrease in both N100 and P300 latencies. The suppression of plasma AChE activity was also observed. These results suggest that B. monnieri can improve attention, cognitive processing, and working memory partly via the suppression of AChE activity.

 

 

Edited by gamesguru, 24 September 2015 - 04:28 PM.

[Real Mushrooms]

 

9-methyl-beta-carboline or Deprenyl. 

Those aren't purely natural but they get the job done. 

Syrian Rue is an interesting one as well...

Cordyceps DEFINITELY has anti-anhedonic effect...it's pharmacology is interesting as well.

 

 

Biol Pharm Bull. 2007 Sep;30(9):1758-62.

Antidepressant-like effect of Cordyceps sinensis in the mouse tail suspension test.

Nishizawa K1, Torii K, Kawasaki A, Katada M, Ito M, Terashita K, Aiso S, Matsuoka M.

Author information

 

 

Note they are testing actually authentic wild Cordyceps sinensis. These are not present is any supplements. Wild Cordyceps sinensis are one of the most expensive mushrooms in the world at upwards of $20,000+ per kilo.

 

Our Facebook post has more info about Cordyceps and supplements: https://www.facebook...3009295/?type=3

Edited by Real Mushrooms, 01 December 2015 - 12:56 AM.