145 replies to this topic

[jonnyD]

I am interested in joining this group buy but i am not sure if shipping to germany works (customs...). 

[Dallasboy]

What is PHG?

[The Ripper]

 

 

I don't personally run the GB's, I'm just a mod there.  Admin does everything for the GB and our private forum.  Like I said I could get you in if you wanted to.  Believe me the process for our GB's will not get you scammed, as privacy and legitimacy is the number one concern that is why we operate privately to avoid scammers.

 

I think you misunderstand me

I was asking if it's possible for anyone with access to the groupbuys on PHG to take orders from Longecity members. As you can see already there are a few here would be interested. 

We could get a reputable member to join and take our orders, then we pay him, he orders, receives, ships to us?

I am interested in joining this group buy but i am not sure if shipping to germany works (customs...). 

You won't have an issue with customs because these substances are not illegal in any sense

[Tubzy]

What is PHG?

 

Pioneering hair growth

 

 

 

I don't personally run the GB's, I'm just a mod there.  Admin does everything for the GB and our private forum.  Like I said I could get you in if you wanted to.  Believe me the process for our GB's will not get you scammed, as privacy and legitimacy is the number one concern that is why we operate privately to avoid scammers.

 

I think you misunderstand me

I was asking if it's possible for anyone with access to the groupbuys on PHG to take orders from Longecity members. As you can see already there are a few here would be interested. 

We could get a reputable member to join and take our orders, then we pay him, he orders, receives, ships to us?

I am interested in joining this group buy but i am not sure if shipping to germany works (customs...). 

You won't have an issue with customs because these substances are not illegal in any sense

 

 

Hey man, unfortunately no it wouldn't.  That is how the admin operates he is very cautious and doesn't deal with public forums.  You guys are more than welcome to join our private forum with the GB's.  Everything is run in-house.  Send me a PM if you are interested.

Edited by Tubzy, 21 October 2015 - 11:40 PM.

[phix]

Limonene seems to have a pro pge2 effect. Which is interesting since it also seems to act as a skin penetration enhancer

http://www.researchg..._gastric_mucosa

http://www.researchg...ation_Promoters

 

I was wondering if it would have the same pro pge2 effect on the scalp. I saw it can inhibit pge2 on some cells but I guess that is probably not the case in the skin. In this paper they measured the PGE2 release induced by d-limonene and other skin permeation enhancers on some (presumably skin) cell culture. If someone else has access to the full text, it will be interesting to hear the results. 

 

Int J Pharm. 2003 Apr 14;255(1-2):153-66.

In vitro and in vivo evaluations of the efficacy and safety of skin permeation enhancers using flurbiprofen as a model drug.

Fang JY1, Hwang TL, Fang CL, Chiu HC.

 

Grapefruit and orange oils have above 90% limonene content. Note that Neroli oil from Citrus aurantium has much lower concentration (around 15%) since it is produced from the blossom rather than the rind. 

[Tubzy]

Limonene seems to have a pro pge2 effect. Which is interesting since it also seems to act as a skin penetration enhancer

http://www.researchg..._gastric_mucosa

http://www.researchg...ation_Promoters

I was wondering if it would have the same pro pge2 effect on the scalp. I saw it can inhibit pge2 on some cells but I guess that is probably not the case in the skin. In this paper they measured the PGE2 release induced by d-limonene and other skin permeation enhancers on some (presumably skin) cell culture. If someone else has access to the full text, it will be interesting to hear the results.

Int J Pharm. 2003 Apr 14;255(1-2):153-66. In vitro and in vivo evaluations of the efficacy and safety of skin permeation enhancers using flurbiprofen as a model drug.
Fang JY1, Hwang TL, Fang CL, Chiu HC.

Grapefruit and orange oils have above 90% limonene content. Note that Neroli oil from Citrus aurantium has much lower concentration (around 15%) since it is produced from the blossom rather than the rind.

Thanks guys for the study. We are going to take a closer look into this.

[Tubzy]

I am interested in joining this group buy but i am not sure if shipping to germany works (customs...).

Yes we do

[zorba990]

Limonene seems to have a pro pge2 effect. Which is interesting since it also seems to act as a skin penetration enhancer

http://www.researchg..._gastric_mucosa

http://www.researchg...ation_Promoters

I was wondering if it would have the same pro pge2 effect on the scalp. I saw it can inhibit pge2 on some cells but I guess that is probably not the case in the skin. In this paper they measured the PGE2 release induced by d-limonene and other skin permeation enhancers on some (presumably skin) cell culture. If someone else has access to the full text, it will be interesting to hear the results.

Int J Pharm. 2003 Apr 14;255(1-2):153-66. In vitro and in vivo evaluations of the efficacy and safety of skin permeation enhancers using flurbiprofen as a model drug.
Fang JY1, Hwang TL, Fang CL, Chiu HC.

Grapefruit and orange oils have above 90% limonene content. Note that Neroli oil from Citrus aurantium has much lower concentration (around 15%) since it is produced from the blossom rather than the rind.

Thanks guys for the study. We are going to take a closer look into this.

I should note that from personal experience, high purity limonene feels like it burns the skin. But for me the actual irritation and redness was not bad....less than a sunburn for sure. I will go see if quercetin dissolves in limonene.....

[The Ripper]

Has anyone noted an improvement in skin quality since orally taking Setipiprant? I believe it should improve acne and other skin conditions.

[Tubzy]

Has anyone noted an improvement in skin quality since orally taking Setipiprant? I believe it should improve acne and other skin conditions.

 

i'm taking high dose oral only.  Noticed some drying of my face.

[The Ripper]

 

Has anyone noted an improvement in skin quality since orally taking Setipiprant? I believe it should improve acne and other skin conditions.

 

i'm taking high dose oral only.  Noticed some drying of my face.

 

Please check PM

[Tubzy]

Just did and replied
Coconut oil seems to clear up on dry face symptoms though. I am taking probably one of the highest oral doses on the forum along with one or two other members. I am planning to switch to topical at night though and oral AM. Dry face must be from the shrinking of sebaceous glands (which is a good thing)

Edited by Tubzy, 23 October 2015 - 03:33 PM.

[Huckfinn]

How do you take it orally?

[Tubzy]

How do you take it orally?

200mg AM and 200mg pm, sometimes a little more totalling 400-500mg.

I have the raw powder and just cap them. The vehicle for seti is the tricky part though

Edited by Tubzy, 23 October 2015 - 03:30 PM.

[sthira]

Probably yall' ve seen this about topical ruxolitinib or tofacitinib in mice?


Blocking enzymes in hair follicles promotes hair growth
23 Oct 2015, 05:49 PM

Within 3 weeks, mice that received topical ruxolitinib or tofacitinib had regrown nearly all their hair (right photo; drug was applied only to the right side of the mouse). Little to no hair growth occurred in control mice during the same timeframe.

Inhibiting a family of enzymes inside hair follicles that are suspended in a resting state restores hair growth, a new study from researchers at Columbia University Medical Center has found. The research was published today in the online edition of Science Advances.

In experiments with mouse and human hair follicles, Angela M. Christiano, PhD, and colleagues found that drugs that inhibit the Janus kinase (JAK) family of enzymes promote rapid and robust hair growth when directly applied to the skin.

The study raises the possibility that drugs known as JAK inhibitors could be used to restore hair growth in multiple forms of hair loss such as that induced by male pattern baldness, and additional types that occur when hair follicles are trapped in a resting state. Two JAK inhibitors have been approved by the U.S. Food and Drug Administration. One is approved for treatment of blood diseases (ruxolitinib) and the other for rheumatoid arthritis (tofacitinib). Both are being tested in clinical trials for the treatment of plaque psoriasis and alopecia areata, an autoimmune disease that causes hair loss.

"What we've found is promising, though we haven't yet shown it is effective for male pattern baldness," said Dr. Christiano. "More work needs to be done to test formulations of JAK inhibitors specially made for the scalp to determine whether they can induce hair growth in humans."

Christiano and her colleagues serendipitously discovered the effect of JAK inhibitors on hair follicles when they were studying a type of hair loss known as alopecia areata, caused by an autoimmune attack on the hair follicles. Christiano and colleagues reported last year that JAK inhibitors shut off the signal that provokes the autoimmune attack, and that oral forms of the drug restore hair growth in some people with the disorder.

In the course those experiments, Dr. Christiano noticed that mice grew more hair when the drug was applied topically to the skin than when given internally. This suggested JAK inhibitors might have a direct effect on the hair follicles in addition to inhibiting the immune attack.

When the researchers looked more closely at normal mouse hair follicles, they found that JAK inhibitors rapidly awakened resting follicles out of dormancy. Hair follicles do not produce hair constantly but rather by cycling between resting and growing phases.

JAK inhibitors trigger the follicles' normal reawakening process, the researchers found. Mice treated for five days with one of two JAK inhibitors sprouted new hair within 10 days, greatly accelerating the hair follicle growth phase. No hair grew on untreated control mice in the same time period.

"There are very few compounds that can push hair follicles into their growth cycle so quickly," said Dr. Christiano. "Some topical agents induce tufts of hair here and there after a few weeks, but very few have such a potent and rapid-acting effect." The drugs also produce longer hair from human hair follicles grown in culture and on skin grafted onto mice.

It's likely that the drugs that are so effective in enhancing hair growth in the mice could affect the same pathways in human follicles, suggesting they could induce new hair growth and extend the growth of existing hairs in humans.

It remains to be seen if JAK inhibitors can reawaken hair follicles that have been suspended in a resting state because of androgenetic alopecia (which causes male and female pattern baldness) or other forms of hair loss. So far, all the experiments have been conducted in normal mice and human follicles. Experiments to address hair follicles affected by hair loss disorders are under way.

The title of the paper is: Pharmacologic inhibition of JAK-STAT signaling promotes hair growth. Other CUMC authors: Sivan Harel, Claire Higgins (now at Imperial College London) Jane E. Cerise, Zhenpeng Dai, James C. Chen, and Raphael Clynes (now at Bristol-Myers Squib).

The work was supported in part by the NIH (grants R01AR056016, P30AR044535, T32GM082771 and T32GM007088), Locks of Love Foundation, Alopecia Areata Initiative, and the Dermatology Foundation (Career Development Award).

Story Source:

The above story is based on materials provided by Columbia University Medical Center. Note: Materials may be edited for content and length.

Journal Reference:

S. Harel, C. A. Higgins, J. E. Cerise, Z. Dai, J. C. Chen, R. Clynes, A. M. Christiano. Pharmacologic inhibition of JAK-STAT signaling promotes hair growth. Science Advances, 2015; 1 (9): e1500973 DOI: 10.1126/sciadv.1500973

[The Ripper]

 

How do you take it orally?

200mg AM and 200mg pm, sometimes a little more totalling 400-500mg.

I have the raw powder and just cap them. The vehicle for seti is the tricky part though

 

So that means at 25g you're really only going to last around two months, right? That's quite a hefty investment. Though if it works then of course it's worth it. 

I just wonder if there's anyone who's documenting their hair with microscopic photos of the hairs themselves to demonstrate changes. 

Edit: I wanted to know also what the lowest effective oral dose people are reporting on forums. Any idea?

Edited by The Ripper, 25 October 2015 - 03:15 PM.

[Tubzy]

 

 

How do you take it orally?

200mg AM and 200mg pm, sometimes a little more totalling 400-500mg.

I have the raw powder and just cap them. The vehicle for seti is the tricky part though

 

So that means at 25g you're really only going to last around two months, right? That's quite a hefty investment. Though if it works then of course it's worth it. 

I just wonder if there's anyone who's documenting their hair with microscopic photos of the hairs themselves to demonstrate changes. 

Edit: I wanted to know also what the lowest effective oral dose people are reporting on forums. Any idea?

 

 

Yes, but that is because I'm waiting for my custom vehicle to come in right now.  Once it does, I will be switching to low dose oral AM (50-80mg or so) and 4%-5% applied topically PM.  That will cut down the cost down significantly.  That is what most people are doing and topical seems to be the most effective.  As far as changes man, it's still really early to tell.  I am on seti alone so that most likely why my dose is pretty high right now.  I know someone else is who is doing topical alone with results (hellouser).  The first GB for seti was only completed about 2 months or so ago, so it's still early but there are multiple logs on PHG.  There is no set dosage yet per say.

[Tubzy]

Probably yall' ve seen this about topical ruxolitinib or tofacitinib in mice?


Blocking enzymes in hair follicles promotes hair growth
23 Oct 2015, 05:49 PM

Within 3 weeks, mice that received topical ruxolitinib or tofacitinib had regrown nearly all their hair (right photo; drug was applied only to the right side of the mouse). Little to no hair growth occurred in control mice during the same timeframe.

Inhibiting a family of enzymes inside hair follicles that are suspended in a resting state restores hair growth, a new study from researchers at Columbia University Medical Center has found. The research was published today in the online edition of Science Advances.

In experiments with mouse and human hair follicles, Angela M. Christiano, PhD, and colleagues found that drugs that inhibit the Janus kinase (JAK) family of enzymes promote rapid and robust hair growth when directly applied to the skin.

The study raises the possibility that drugs known as JAK inhibitors could be used to restore hair growth in multiple forms of hair loss such as that induced by male pattern baldness, and additional types that occur when hair follicles are trapped in a resting state. Two JAK inhibitors have been approved by the U.S. Food and Drug Administration. One is approved for treatment of blood diseases (ruxolitinib) and the other for rheumatoid arthritis (tofacitinib). Both are being tested in clinical trials for the treatment of plaque psoriasis and alopecia areata, an autoimmune disease that causes hair loss.

"What we've found is promising, though we haven't yet shown it is effective for male pattern baldness," said Dr. Christiano. "More work needs to be done to test formulations of JAK inhibitors specially made for the scalp to determine whether they can induce hair growth in humans."

Christiano and her colleagues serendipitously discovered the effect of JAK inhibitors on hair follicles when they were studying a type of hair loss known as alopecia areata, caused by an autoimmune attack on the hair follicles. Christiano and colleagues reported last year that JAK inhibitors shut off the signal that provokes the autoimmune attack, and that oral forms of the drug restore hair growth in some people with the disorder.

In the course those experiments, Dr. Christiano noticed that mice grew more hair when the drug was applied topically to the skin than when given internally. This suggested JAK inhibitors might have a direct effect on the hair follicles in addition to inhibiting the immune attack.

When the researchers looked more closely at normal mouse hair follicles, they found that JAK inhibitors rapidly awakened resting follicles out of dormancy. Hair follicles do not produce hair constantly but rather by cycling between resting and growing phases.

JAK inhibitors trigger the follicles' normal reawakening process, the researchers found. Mice treated for five days with one of two JAK inhibitors sprouted new hair within 10 days, greatly accelerating the hair follicle growth phase. No hair grew on untreated control mice in the same time period.

"There are very few compounds that can push hair follicles into their growth cycle so quickly," said Dr. Christiano. "Some topical agents induce tufts of hair here and there after a few weeks, but very few have such a potent and rapid-acting effect." The drugs also produce longer hair from human hair follicles grown in culture and on skin grafted onto mice.

It's likely that the drugs that are so effective in enhancing hair growth in the mice could affect the same pathways in human follicles, suggesting they could induce new hair growth and extend the growth of existing hairs in humans.

It remains to be seen if JAK inhibitors can reawaken hair follicles that have been suspended in a resting state because of androgenetic alopecia (which causes male and female pattern baldness) or other forms of hair loss. So far, all the experiments have been conducted in normal mice and human follicles. Experiments to address hair follicles affected by hair loss disorders are under way.

The title of the paper is: Pharmacologic inhibition of JAK-STAT signaling promotes hair growth. Other CUMC authors: Sivan Harel, Claire Higgins (now at Imperial College London) Jane E. Cerise, Zhenpeng Dai, James C. Chen, and Raphael Clynes (now at Bristol-Myers Squib).

The work was supported in part by the NIH (grants R01AR056016, P30AR044535, T32GM082771 and T32GM007088), Locks of Love Foundation, Alopecia Areata Initiative, and the Dermatology Foundation (Career Development Award).

Story Source:

The above story is based on materials provided by Columbia University Medical Center. Note: Materials may be edited for content and length.

Journal Reference:

S. Harel, C. A. Higgins, J. E. Cerise, Z. Dai, J. C. Chen, R. Clynes, A. M. Christiano. Pharmacologic inhibition of JAK-STAT signaling promotes hair growth. Science Advances, 2015; 1 (9): e1500973 DOI: 10.1126/sciadv.1500973

 

Yes we have.  thanks for the info though.  We are looking into now as well.

[Tubzy]

FYI, seti is dissolves in ethanol, dmi, polysorbate.  Other vehicles it's trick and mostly likely does not dissolve (i tried neogenic, adenogen, KB etc.).  PGE2 is easily soluble in alcohol, water etc.

Edited by Tubzy, 25 October 2015 - 04:51 PM.

[phix]

 

Probably yall' ve seen this about topical ruxolitinib or tofacitinib in mice?


Blocking enzymes in hair follicles promotes hair growth
23 Oct 2015, 05:49 PM
 

[...]

Story Source:

The above story is based on materials provided by Columbia University Medical Center. Note: Materials may be edited for content and length.

Journal Reference:

S. Harel, C. A. Higgins, J. E. Cerise, Z. Dai, J. C. Chen, R. Clynes, A. M. Christiano. Pharmacologic inhibition of JAK-STAT signaling promotes hair growth. Science Advances, 2015; 1 (9): e1500973 DOI: 10.1126/sciadv.1500973

 

Yes we have.  thanks for the info though.  We are looking into now as well.

 

 

It seems it has already been tested in humans suffering from alopecia areata with amazing results:

 

Hairless Man Grows Full Head Of Hair In Yale Arthritis Drug Trial

 

FDA-Approved Drug Restores Hair in Patients with Alopecia Areata

 

The Columbia group got a patent out of it and there is another one on JAK inhibitors for activation of epidermal stem cells, including hair growth applications.

 

Methods for treating hair loss disorders

 

Jak inhibitors for activation of epidermal stem cell populations 

 

 

 

 

Limonene seems to have a pro pge2 effect. Which is interesting since it also seems to act as a skin penetration enhancer

http://www.researchg..._gastric_mucosa

http://www.researchg...ation_Promoters

 

I was wondering if it would have the same pro pge2 effect on the scalp. I saw it can inhibit pge2 on some cells but I guess that is probably not the case in the skin. In this paper they measured the PGE2 release induced by d-limonene and other skin permeation enhancers on some (presumably skin) cell culture. If someone else has access to the full text, it will be interesting to hear the results. 

 

Int J Pharm. 2003 Apr 14;255(1-2):153-66.

In vitro and in vivo evaluations of the efficacy and safety of skin permeation enhancers using flurbiprofen as a model drug.

Fang JY1, Hwang TL, Fang CL, Chiu HC.

 

Grapefruit and orange oils have above 90% limonene content. Note that Neroli oil from Citrus aurantium has much lower concentration (around 15%) since it is produced from the blossom rather than the rind. 

 

 

Anybody got hold of the paper above and care to comment? 

Edited by phix, 25 October 2015 - 05:05 PM.

[Huckfinn]

Right Phix,
Thanks!
So can we just buy this stuff and apply it ourselves?

[zorba990]

Immune suppression is no joke, though so please be careful out there...

From drugs.com
Tofacitinib
Generic Name: tofacitinib (TOE-fa-SYE-ti-nib)
Brand Name: Xeljanz

Tofacitinib may increase the risk of serious and sometimes fatal infection. Patients who also take medicine to suppress the immune system (eg, methotrexate, corticosteroids) may be at greater risk. Reported infections have included tuberculosis (TB), shingles, and other bacterial, viral, and fungal infections. You should be tested for TB before you start tofacitinib. Discuss with your doctor the benefits and risks of using tofacitinib.

Contact your doctor right away if you develop symptoms of infection (eg, fever; chills; persistent cough or sore throat; increased or painful urination; unusual muscle aches; red, warm, swollen, painful, or blistered skin; tiredness; loss of appetite or unusual weight loss; night sweats).

Lymphoma, skin cancer, and other types of cancer have been seen in patients treated with tofacitinib. Patients who have had a kidney transplant and take medicine to suppress the immune system may be at greater risk for a problem with certain white blood cells growing out of control. Discuss any questions or concerns with your doctor.

[Huckfinn]

Ouch!
I thought in fact I read about it somewhere.
That doesn't really make it a viable option....

[zorba990]

Ouch!
I thought in fact I read about it somewhere.
That doesn't really make it a viable option....

Well topical application might be safer, but it would make sense to get immune and liver blood work done. At least every couple months, if going this route.

Edited by zorba990, 25 October 2015 - 05:57 PM.

[sthira]

Also note that alopecia areata (spot baldness) and androgenic alopecia (male pattern baldness) are different medical mysteries. So topical ruxolitinib or tofacitinib (in mice) may work for spot baldness but maybe not for mpb?

[Tubzy]

For tofa, it's an arthritis medication. Its about 2000$ for 60 pills a 5mg.  Unless there was a GB for it they may be the best bet.  It suppresses immune system which may not be ideal.  The boys at PHG aren't that interested in it at this point.  Topical application would be the way to go.  Most people are having success on seti and the PG protocol.

 

Interesting results though.

Edited by Tubzy, 27 October 2015 - 10:55 PM.

[misterE]

I have never bought the idea that PGE2 promotes hair-growth. PGE2 is inflammatory and stimulates aromatase, inflammation and hyperestrogenemia is associated with aging and disease states, like heart-disease and prostate-cancer; two diseases strongly associated with MPB. I have had good results eating a low linoleic and arachidonic acid diet, moderate fish-oil and aspirin supplementation, and topical use of ketoconazole (a lipoxygenase inhibitor) and methylsalicylate (a reversible cyclooxygenase inhibitor).

 

It is also my belief that the main hormone(s) responsible for regrowth is actually insulin and/or IGF-1. 

Edited by misterE, 03 November 2015 - 01:50 PM.

[zorba990]

Pge2 is not all bad. And some herbal medicines even upregulate it


"Phytomedicine. 2002 Sep;9(6):523-9.
Effect of essential oil obtained from Croton cajucara Benth. on gastric ulcer healing and protective factors of the gastric mucosa.
Hiruma-Lima CA1, Gracioso JS, Bighetti EJ, Grassi-Kassisse DM, Nunes DS, Brito AR.
Author information
Abstract
The bark of Croton cajucara Benth. (Euphorbiaceae) is used widely in Amazonian folk medicine for the treatment of a wide range of gastrointestinal symptoms. Infusions of C. cajucara bark contain dehydrocrotonin (DHC), the furan diterpene, and an essential oil, a rich mixture of sesquiterpenes. Although the antiulcerogenic activity of the essential oil has been studied in different gastric ulcer models in mice and rats, its mechanism remains unclear. In this work, we examined the ability of this essential oil to increase PGE2 release from mucus cells, as well as its effects on the amount of gastric mucus and on the healing of acetic acid-induced gastric ulcers. The essential oil (100 mg/kg body wt., p.o), significantly increased PGE2 production by glandular cells (by 102% as compared to control) and the amount of Alcian blue binding to the gastric mucus. In chronic gastric ulcers, a single daily oral dose of essential oil (100 mg/kg body wt.) for 14 consecutive days accelerated ulcer healing to an extent similar to that seen with an equal dose of cimetidine. Thus, the protective and healing actions of the essential oil from C. cajucara bark on gastric lesions resulted mainly from an increase in PGE2 release and gastric mucus formation which would protect the gastric mucosa. "

Edited by zorba990, 04 November 2015 - 03:51 AM.

[Tubzy]

I have never bought the idea that PGE2 promotes hair-growth. PGE2 is inflammatory and stimulates aromatase, inflammation and hyperestrogenemia is associated with aging and disease states, like heart-disease and prostate-cancer; two diseases strongly associated with MPB. I have had good results eating a low linoleic and arachidonic acid diet, moderate fish-oil and aspirin supplementation, and topical use of ketoconazole (a lipoxygenase inhibitor) and methylsalicylate (a reversible cyclooxygenase inhibitor).

It is also my belief that the main hormone(s) responsible for regrowth is actually insulin and/or IGF-1.

We are talking about miniscule amounts applied topically. Amount would be 100mcg...Also you are not going to get regrowth with that protocol. None of the compounds you are using express pge or stimulation of CD or growth factors. You should at least add in adenogen. Keto inhibits pge as well.

Diet and MPB are not correlated. Hellouser has debunked this many times. Look how many homeless people have full heads of hair...

Most of do have IGF-1 levels on PHG. We supplement with MK-677. Hair grows faster but haven't noticed any improvement MPB related. Skin is also in great condition.

Edited by Tubzy, 04 November 2015 - 05:15 PM.

[Huckfinn]

Hi Tubzy,

How's your protocol going?

Any updates?

 

Thanks!