13 replies to this topic

[oilfieldpilot]

Hi all!
Great forum here!
(avant lab rec'd this site) [thumb]

I've perused thru the immediate posts here and just thought to start a new thread.

I have the opposite problem of Chronic fatigue, and that is insomnia.
I steer clear of all rx meds for obvious reasons...
I am a true believer in nootropics, period. All thru my days/yrs of school/ college/grad school I was always struggling for the grades and thought keeping up and pulling all nighters on top of that was the answer.

I know sleep is indeed important, but a lifetime of chronic insomnia I'd go to bed when the chickens went to roost, only to awaken an hour later and remain wide awake until 2-3 am. The next day my head would feel it was in a fog. I tried the caffeine boost, but quickly got off it.

I've been on the following combo for sev'l months and have had Tremendous (!!!) results. At first, it increased my energy too much and I went days on end w/o sleep...but surprisingly did not feel tired as I had in prev yrs.
But I knew this was bad, and just wanted normal sleep.
I added L-theanine back to my diet and that did the trick.
I have a very busy, high-risk and demanding job and alertness is absolutley essential; and the days are long (fly helicopters sunup-sundown offshore) and shifts are non-ending.

OK so here's my daily stack:

piracetam: 6400mg
vinpocetine: 40mg
Alpha GPC: 600mg (the ONLY choline! all other cheapos are a waste of $$$!)
galantamine +: 16mg (take w/ food before bed; can cause insomnia/nausea)
L-theanine:200mg
OR
Phenibut + L theanine: (GREAT combo for calmness. I got a lady who is a psycho/ bipolar/manic (whew!) off that Zoloft (200mg!!!) crap and onto this....180 turn around!) but one has to watch being on phenibut long term...so Ive read

and in add to the vits:
B6:50mg (100 makes me nauseous)
C+ :1000mg
A
borage oil/E
flax
biotin
folic
and fruit and veg tabs from swansons (cheap and great for times w/ poor diets)

Lastly, my husband and I both did the Dr Natura cleansing. although both of us are in great health anyway, we both worked overseas and thought it wouldn't hurt. I can't say enough abou tthat program, but that is a different thread. It works and really keeps you incredible r-e-g-u-l-a-r! (and I thought I was fine in That dept!)

WIth this Stack, I have excellent energy thru the day (as I always did) but my Mental clarity, thoughts, even creativity have skyrocketed!
Then I seem to wind down naturally at night and actually SLEEP for more than 2 hrs straight (now can get 6-8 thru night) which was never heard of in my entire life! (And the LD's are more frequent, incredibly vivid, and controlled!)
I also listen to a lot of hemisync...that has improved my creativeness and helps me F-O-C-U-S! This has greatly helped keep my intuition sharply honed as I also depend on it daily to keep my derrier (and aircraft) out of the water!

alright, sorry for being long-winded [tung] but I wanted to share My success with my findings. I know there are many more cognitive enhancers out there, and would like to learn more from You! [thumb]

Maybe others can post their "stacks" and provide their results, and what they want to gain from nootropics, etc!

thanks!

ofp

Edited by oilfieldpilot, 16 October 2005 - 04:50 PM.

[purerealm]

I think I'm sort of in the same place that you were in when you were young, except I don't have a very active lifestyle. As a child I always wanted to stay up longer, defying my parents rules for a set bedtime. As that continued on throughout life, I think it set the stage for some pretty nasty things to happen. I never went to school feeling refreshed, in fact, I was usually feeling pretty terrible. I still have brain fog, and I guess that's caused by a very out of sync circadian rhythm, so that I never feel energetic until nighttime. (the exact wrong time to feel energetic when youw ant to sleep)

Thanks for sharing your experience, I have one question though: What do you think is the main component of yoru stack attributing to your high energy levels? From my limited knowledge I think vinpocetine is the only "upper" in your stack. Also your stack seems very common in this forum, maybe replacing choline sources with alpha GPC is necessary?

[oilfieldpilot]

Hi! I can understand quite a bit!

Yes, Alpha GPC is absolutely Essential, I feel my stack would be worthless with out it!
I feel that is why the Vinpocetine was usless to me taking it alone.
I've taken vin for over 2 years, than added the others a few months later. I felt really no difference from the vin for as long as I took it. So no, definately not a stim for me.

insofar as the over -energy levels...it has just been 'how it is' for me...and no...no thyroid problems. Am healthy as a horse.
I am not a coffee drinker (detest the black acid) and rarely a soda drinker (that came from days where coaches banned carbonation for athletes) so caffein is very little in my diet.
But my only vice was Sugar!
I could down a dozen + candy bars a day! Infact, it was a staple for me. But I had the insomnia for many years prior, so can't blame sugar. I continued the sugar habit until a couple yrs ago when I started on Swanson's cheapo Vegetable tablets. This was the Only thing that stopped my sugar crave (which lasted 20 yrs!)
I took a diabetes test one morning (after i ate 2 hersheys for breakfast, and was eating a reese's during the blood test) and all 3 test came out at 94, 96, 94....and I was told that was well in the lower normal zone. So I never worry about diabetes (although I was also told you dont get it from sugar!)

I am blessed with great health, never sick, never had a flu... and no colds in over 20 yrs. and I am certainly around the Typhoid Marys enough! [:o]
I am also blessed with few fat genes ( my sisters took all of those,... but also the boob genes too [ang] ) but hey, at least my thighs don't woosh woosh when I walk [thumb]
So the sugar habit didn't cause a weight prob either...nor my energy problem. I would'nt have the typical simple sugar crash like many would.

Regarding sleep problems-
I think the L-Theanine was the trick for me...at least for now. It has calmed me (although I am not considered hyper by any means) and allowed me to feel sleepy, a healthy sleepy I have never felt before. I dream better and have more control over them as well...and I can do it longer now that I am getting some normal sleep cycles!

So, today, I am content with the results...finally!

[lol]
ofp

Edited by oilfieldpilot, 16 October 2005 - 04:53 PM.

[xanadu]

Vinpocetine is not a stimulant, pure, where did you get that idea? oil, the only calming influence I see in your stack is l theanine and 200mg is not going to make a dramatic difference. I dont think it's that though the theanine will help a little. I have insomnia too and take a few calming or sedative things like bacopa, theanine and gaba. I still have problems and I think it's the piracetam that keeps me awake. You might be one of the rare ones who gets sleepy from piracetam. Phenibut is great but can't be used daily long term due to tolerance and dependence. I hope you mentioned that to your friend.

Chronic fatigue often goes along with insomnia, it's not the opposite thing. I suspect your situation will change in time and you may find old problems popping up again.

[purerealm]

I didn't mean stimulant but more like something along the lines of better energy utilization by the brain.

Just recently I bought a light that's supposed to simulate the sun when it rises and wakes up humans through the pineal gland. I think it's going to come in real handy when I need to reset my biological clock. Melatonin also helps me with that.

My body was so messed up that I had thyroid tests and sometimes they would come up as positive for hyperthyroidism. It might have come from alcohol/substance usage but the other things probably made it worse. Now I think my body is much more stable and I've shown negative repeatedly for antibodies and hypert.


I've read an article that discussed specific food cravings like spicy, salty, sweet, and a bunch more as symptoms of malnutrition from specific sources like certain minerals, vitamins, etc etc.

Does your sister have the same active lifestyle and eating habits as yourself? It'd be surprising for siblings to have such varied genetics, if you gained a little weight it'd probably form in the right places. I laughed when I read that sentence though.


I also agree that cfs goes along with insomnia. I think hormonal imbalances just make the body function out of whack in general, with symptoms from low energy to sleeping disorders to weight gain/loss, depression, anxiety, anything.

[oilfieldpilot]

Thanks X and Pure'

to elaborate:
Xanadu: I have Never experienced chronic fatigue; I am 37 now. (Or...maybe you were talking to Pure...)
I have had insomnia since age 6 and and now almost 38. Fatigue has not been an issue. And I think I didn't have a hormone issue at age 6
MY normal sleep pattern is: 2days somewhat normal - but still arise after each sleep cycle (60-90 mins) then return to sleep within 20-30 mins.
3-4 days of no sleep (or less than 1-2 combined) followed by 2-3 nts of what I call blackout. My sleep must be in theta of delta in order to catch up on the lost sleep prior.
This has been routine. It is rare for me to remain asleep longer than 90-120 mins at a time.
When I added the L-theanine to my stack, there was an immediate and noticable effect! I actually felt sleepy after I took my night stack and slithered into bed and fell asleep...I actually still got up 4 times, but I slept (!!!) inbetween!
Now my sleep is more regular (first time in my life) and dreams are vivid and I am achieving lucidity in the dreams more

Pure:
Yes, all of us were athletes on an int'l level They inherited the fat genes. I am the only one who got a granddad's tall and slender genes. But...am a 'little' lacking in the "northern" region! So I blame my sisters for hogging those genes too.
We are all old now and don't compete. They porked-out, I did not. With my injuries, I barely get thru an hours trot daily. But I didn't bloat like a toad [tung] I still keep my broken down bod in-condition as best as I can.

I agree about the cravings. As I said, when I started the veggie (Greens-formula) caps from Swanson vits, wow, what a difference! I could actually pick up a candy bar and set it back down (uneaten, that is!)! My offshore guys (drillers/production hands) were even running bets on this...no one could believe I could make it thru a day withOUT a candy bar...or ten...

Melatonin has very little effect for me. Ive tried many diff doses.

Overall, I can't complain. I have not had depression, or that sort. Life has been demanding and challenging, but now I enjoy what I do. Most important is Living life for Yourself!!!

Cheers all!
and thanks [thumb]

-ofp

Edited by oilfieldpilot, 16 October 2005 - 05:09 PM.

[xanadu]

The help with sleep may be related to piracetam. I don't know that it is but it seemed to increace my dreaming which is something you mention.

Sugar gives food cravings. You are fortunate you gave up most of your sugar habit or you might have found by now you do have a fat gene or two. I laugh when I see the ads for candy bars saying if you are hungry eat one. If you eat one you are just as hungry afterwards if not more, probably more. You can eat 10 bars and still be hungry though you might have indigestion by then. ofp, your case is very atypical and no one can generalise from it. Let us know in a month or two if you still have the improvement or if things have changed.

[velocidex]

What effect do you think the galantamine has had on you?

[oilfieldpilot]

Xanadu,
yes you are indeed right!
I have disappointed many who swore I would get fat after I stopped the competition. I never gained wt from candy. And for me, the sugar crave Never lead to eating more. but when I do stop the veg tabs, my crave returns as strong as before. Either way, not wt change, thankfully.
My diet has always been good (uh...aside from the chocolate). I rarely eat fried foods, I live on the water (literally) more than on land for the last 4 yrs...my 'field' is over a hundred miles in the Gulf; sooo plenty of seafood; and I have my own crab traps I run anytime.
My granddad ate like a horse and never gained wt. He passed something onto me.
I figured by 38, I'd show signs by now if I were gonna gain the weight. I guess am just one of the blessed few who doesn't have to worry about 'that' dept!
I even had a late growth spurt in college and grew 2 more inches even (5'8" until broke back...now 5'71/2" [glasses]

I agree with the piracetam...since I added the alpha gpc and the theanine, my sleep is as I have never experienced. This is several months now. Late in the summer, I went off all and went right back into a severe insomnia streak.
Then had to run from 2 rainstorms called Kat and Rita, that washed our homes and workplaces/platforms away.
Now that we're trying to recoup and rebuild (and I have Electricity!) I am back on my stack (now that my island reopened) and back sleeping well.

The nootropics I take increase dream vividness and frequency. But this also may be due to getting the normal sleep and sleep cycles. I've always had dreams, but this has improved greatly.
Whether I have lucid or non lucid dreams, the combined noo's definately increase vividness and the chance to become lucid, at least for me. Several Dream forums speak of it too.
Alzheimer's runs on mom's side, so I've added the galantamine, but it makes me nauseous unless I take it with pir and gpc....And some food.

Thanks for the comments!
best to all
ofp

Edited by oilfieldpilot, 16 October 2005 - 05:10 PM.

[prodigy2020]

Hey,

Your situation sounds rather similar to mine, ofp. I'm only 19, male, 6'4, 150ish pounds, supposedly 1.2% body fat (according to a Tanita scale I used). I bench 15 pounds over my weight, and squat about 270, so I'm very thin but I don't look like I starve myself or anything. Honestly, I have yet to encounter someone who has a faster metabolism than I have. I was a three sport athlete in high school (football, basketball, track), though not world class (yet, haha). I eat CONSTANTLY. If I'm not in class, sleeping, or showering, I'm pretty much always eating (and sometimes even on those occasions [lol]). During sports seasons I would drink 1,000 calorie shakes just so I wouldn't lose weight (I don't have much fat to lose, so when I lose weight I lose muscle [glasses] ).

Anyways, I used to eat a ton of sugar (maybe 5 or so years ago), but I don't each much of it anymore because it causes a huge crash in energy for me. I'm definitely a night person; I feel very lethargic for the first few hours being awake, and my energy escalates as the day/night goes on. I've never had problems falling (or staying) asleep, though. Unlike your insomnia, I can down a whole pot of coffee and instantly fall asleep if I wanted to.

Unfortunately, though, society demands alertness during the day (I'm currently at college). I try to do most of my work in the evening when I have more energy, but I just simply have too much work to do for me to put it all off. I've tried a few things for daytime alertness: I used to just load myself up with caffiene, but I get sick of coffee pretty quickly and there's the sugar aversion with pop. I've tried Adderall, which worked wonders, but it doesn't seem worth the long term associated risks. I've been taking Pyritinol for a few months now, which helps a bit, but it helps more with boosting brainpower than boosting energy. I'm considering trying modafinil or adrafinil or something similar next. I don't usually have trouble focusing, but it's tough to focus if I don't have much energy.

If anyone has any suggestions for energy boosters I'm all ears.

I don't think my lack of energy comes from a poor diet... I don't usually get many fruits or vegetables though. I take a multi, a B-vitamin, and Omega 3-6-9 nearly every day. The multi gave me a significant boost when I first started taking it, but I don't notice it so much anymore. I exercise on average about 4 days a week (2 days running, 2 days lifting), too.

That's very interesting what you all are saying about piracetam affecting your dreaming. I just starting taking piracetam with alpha GPC about a week and a half ago, and have been having almost nightly dreams, which is fairly uncommon for me (I used to only dream, or remember my dream(s), maybe once a month or so). It's a pretty awesome side-effect!

Also, the piracetam doesn't do anything for my energy, but does make me think much more clearly. Definitely a keeper. Same deal with pyritinol.

I'd like to make a new addition to my stack in the near future, hopefully a focus/energy booster.

By the way OFP, I was hurricane stricken as well [ang] . I was going to be attending Tulane in New Orleans (which obviously isn't possible for this semester). So, I'm spending the semester at MIT (may be staying here for good). I hope the rebuilding goes well for you down there.

[oilfieldpilot]

Hiya Prodigy!

First off, real sorry to hear you were one of the unfortunate students! We've had many transfer to UTMB (galveston Island) just one island over from me, and I know so many who were trying to graduate, finish clinicals, etc and got a royal ...

I has indeed been quite the adventure down here; not just on land, but terrible devastation to our offshore oilfields! $5/gal may not be too far off, unfortunately! [ang]

Anyway,
You should go have a Real body fat calc done. If you were truly at 1.3%, you probably wouldn't be alive. Even the fittest of the fittest, ironman tri-geeks and cyclist (tour de frank) have body fat as low as 3%. Anything lower ...you'd be bench pressing daisies! The Tanita can err up and over 10% verrrrry easily!!!
With what you described, I'd venture you are probaby at Least 5-7% bf. You May be lower, but unlikely; even with your fast metabolism.
It;s Amazing where FAT Lurks!!! [:o]
The Only way to really find out is to do an immersion test. MIT may have the facilities...I was a lab rat for the physiology dept at my university...you learn a lot about yourself, and all free too!
You sould like you may have thyroid problems? or some def metabolic disorder, if you are so tired.
Check out Avant Labs forum...there is a ton of info in your dept there! They talk about ALCAR, which is an energy boosting substance BBers seem to now swear by. And Most mods there are actual research physiologists and give you great info and results from studies, etc. It's worth a shot in my opinion!

And yes, the nootropics seem to either just soothe me physically, but boost the mental clarity significantly. I have not taken anaracetams though

Here is a guide from the competitive body builder's circle: Note: contest BB'ers go on extreme diets and starvation/dehydration prior to competition:

Men:
Contest bodybuilder: 3-5%
Extremely lean: 6-9%
Lean: 10-15%
Average Male: 16-20%
Poor: 20-25%
Very Poor: 25%+

Women:
Fitness model/bodybuilder: 8-11%
Extremely lean: 12-15%
Lean: 16-19%
Average female: 20-25%
Poor: 25-29%
Very Poor: 30%+

+++++++++++++++++

Hey, BEST of luck at school too! MIT is a might bit different from us coon-ass/cajun "lousy-anna" folks [thumb]
You'll still get your feet wet...but not from sea water....but S-N-O-W.....Yuk! [ang]


-ofp

[goku]

This is a weird thread. Oilfield-lady sounds like a manic-depressive looking at her sleeping pattern, and prodigy thinks he has 1.2 % bodyfat -- in which case he'd be dead. Nobody, and I mean nobody has lower than maybe - MAYBE 6 % bodyfat -- and even then only males could possibly go so low and anything lower than 12 is really unhealthy.

[prodigy2020]

Thanks for the post, ofp. I'm definitely not a fan of the cold =(. The New Orleans weather was a big factor in my decision to go there in the first place. It'd an awesome place to be a college kid, too. Ah well, MIT's still a great place to be. Lots of opportunity here. I'm trying to find someone working on an anti-aging or nootropic research project.

Lol, I never said I believed I have 1.2% body fat, that's just the reading I've gotten from the Tanita scale 3 times in a row over a 6 month period (well, 1.2, then 1.3, then 1.2). I'm aware that this is nearly physically impossible. Honestly though, I've gotten stranger news before (For instance, I was recently told that I have 3 spleens [wis] ). That was discovered via CAT scan. Lol, I've had complete strangers come up to me and say things like "Hey, aren't you that kid with like 8 hearts?" since finding out, too.

Anyways, I'm gonna check and see if MIT has somewhere where I can get a real reading for my body fat percentage. Granted, I haven't been in a sport for a good 5 months now though.

And goku, how do you get off on calling her a manic-depressive? So she makes long posts. Nothing suggests mania, or depression. Weird thread? Yes, heh. And it deviates a bit, but oh well.

Oh yeah, had another freakin' weird dream last night, too. Cool stuff, that piracetam (if that's really what's causing the dreams).

[oilfieldpilot]

Hey Goku,
for the donepezil, try uniquenutrition.net for galantamine (which is the nonrx of it)

I can assure ya, No manic here! I am not one of those stupid little cotton balls with a sad face in those zoloft commercials.
Life's to good to me to waste time being depressed. besides, I am fortunate to have one of the best and coolest jobs in the world! being pshcyo will only get you killed, real fast.

And, I wouldn't pass my FAA physicals if I was, as you said..."manic depressed"

Not all insomnia is psychotic-related mine runs in the family, as does high metabolism.

-kinda like saying skinny people must have an eating disorder, otherwise, to be 'normal', they'd be F-a-t. (Well, the fat standards here in the US are indeed quite 'obtuse').

AND you are a bit incorrect about body fat maxing at your MAYBE 6%. elite males can go 5% and below, However anything lower for longterm IS detrimental, so we agree there! Women figure is higher, but too they can hit the 5% mark, but it is not in their best interest of good health.

now, go be weird somewhere else,

-ofp

Edited by oilfieldpilot, 16 October 2005 - 05:04 PM.